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2011 Ford Explorer

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Comments

  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    Why would the dealer care? You think he would pass up the sale just in case someone else comes in with a coupon? He could make an extra 500 by refusing the sale???? The same dealer will likely make thousands on many other customers, why would he refuse a sale that still has profit?
    I guess you are one of those customers that thinks Ford dealer is doing YOU a favor by selling you a car..
  • tanghantanghan Member Posts: 1
    Gary,

    I'm late in the discussion. I'm in the process to get a XLT. Would you kind enough to send me the x-plan pin to my email: tanghan6@yahoo.com

    thanks!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Why would the dealer care? You think he would pass up the sale just in case someone else comes in with a coupon? He could make an extra 500 by refusing the sale???? The same dealer will likely make thousands on many other customers, why would he refuse a sale that still has profit?


    You misunderstood the point. My point was if you told the dealer you wanted to buy a vehicle with X plan and the dealer said they would give you the same price without X plan - that doesn't make sense. With X plan the dealer gets an additional check for $400-$500 from Ford. Without X plan they don't get that additional check. If you were a dealer and the vehicle price was the same to the customer - would you turn down a free $500 check from Ford? Of course not.

    OTOH if a dealer was selling every 2011 Explorer they could get at MSRP or close to MSRP then why would they give one away for close to invoice price? The number of vehicles they get is limited so it stands to reason they'd want to maximize the profit wherever possible unless they wanted to take care of a special customer.

    If Ford used Retail Order Verification where they could order pre-sold vehicles that did not count against their allocation then it would make more sense to sell all the vehicles they could get on X plan.
  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    edited January 2011
    I understand what you are saying. But that assumes that there are x-plan customers waiting in line to buy that car( the buyer had no pin). The reality is there is a lot of competition. So there are going to be dealers willing to discount the truck in order to make a sale, rather than wait around hoping to get an extra 500 from the next guy. The MSRP sales wont hold up because this is a mass marketed family vehicle with lots of alternatives available. People aren't going to wait in line to pay MSRP.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I have 5 Escapes, however only one is AWD. That one is a 2008 with 80,000 miles. The Rear Diff went out at 30,000 miles, was replaced under warranty, and has given us no problem ever since. I really love Escapes and Mariners. Have an 05 Escape, an 06 Escape 2 08s, and a 2010. Also had an 06 Mariner. Have had no problems with any of them other than what I said about the 08. Excellent CUVs.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Steevo - you're still misunderstanding. The dealer has a customer who wants to buy a 2011 Explorer. The buyer says "I have a X plan Pin". The dealer says "I'll sell it to you for X plan price and you don't need the pin." The price to the customer is the same either way and the dealer makes a sale. However, by turning down the X plan pin the dealer is essentially throwing away an EXTRA $500 profit from Ford. Why would the dealer do that? All the dealer has to do is fill out paperwork and get a free $500 from Ford.

    I'll tell you why. Because without X plan protection, the dealer is free to keep extra rebates, charge very high doc fees, add dealer add-ons like paint and fabric protection, keep dealer cash, etc. In other words, they don't mind giving up the $500 from Ford because they can make more than that on the other stuff which is prohibited by X plan rules.

    The moral of the story is that if a dealer offers you X plan pricing and says you don't need a pin - be VERY suspicious. It MIGHT be legit but chances are you'll end up paying more. At least with X plan you're protected.
  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    Your right it doesnt make sense to say that to a customer that has a pin.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    'X Plan price', I had that pulled on me. Probably gave up some money there.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The Jeep Grand Cherokee has always been a unibody, albeit with Rear Wheel Drive. The GM Acadia, Enclave, Outlook and Traverse are all unibody with FWD, just like the new Explorer. So this is not new, and if the body is stiff enough, and the Explorer is the stiffest one at this time, the ride should be fine while towing. Of course, I haven't towed with one yet, so I could be wrong, but it stands to reason that it should be ok. The ride on the Explorer ever since 2002 has been superior to all competition because of the Indepent Rear Suspension, and Ford was the first to put that on their SUVs. Only Nissan has copied that to this day, I believe.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..was replaced under warranty.."

    And I'd bet good, serious money that you also got a firmware "reflash" that in some manner, at some level, reduced the use and therefore the stress level of the driveline components.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..the ride should be fine while towing..."

    Not, NEVER.

    Even with the slightest of tow weight on the rear hitch the front is "lifted". With FWD and/or F/awd those front tires' traction coefficient must be responsible for drive traction AND lateral, direction control. A RWD or R/awd vehicle does not have this handicap.

    So towing with a FWD or F/awd will always result in "squrrillier" handing vs RWD or R/awd.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Only if it picks the front wheels up off the ground which obviously isn't happening.

    Your bridge called - it wants you to come back home.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    If you get the tongue weight within the recommended limit, it should be perfectly ok to tow a trailer.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Oh, very likely!!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    Give me some real info. Tsb#'s or whatever.
    I just need something that backs up your claims.
    It's not asking much considering I couldn't find anything about it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Tow weight on a rear hitch has the same affect on the front traction as would be the case for over-inflating the front, LOWER CSA to contact the roadbed.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The vehicle is engineered so that towing within the specs will not compromise front wheel traction. Stop making up lies.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Loss of traction on the front due to weight on the rear is, up to a point, a linear function. The towing specs simply tell you where you might begin to experience a SERIOUS level of uncontrolability, not that some level of control isn't lost incrementally as you load up the rear.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    edited January 2011
    Towing 5,000 lbs isn't going to compromise vehicle control. Then again you think a FWD/AWD vehicle is patently unsafe in the rain.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2011
    patently unsafe

    Guess he won't be buying one of those poorly engineered BMWs either. ;)

    Meanwhile, is anyone shopping for a new Explorer?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The funny thing is he actually drives one of those "patently unsafe" FWD/AWD vehicles (Lexus RX). Scotty may not be able to change the laws of physics but wwest does it every time he posts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Anyone shopping for a new Explorer?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Towing anything, ANYTHING at all, will ALWAYS compromise vehicle safety.

    Towing with a FWD or F/awd just accelerates the rate of compromise.

    The question becomes...HOW MUCH compromise you're willing to accept...!!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "...he...drives one of those "oatently unsafe"...."

    I have no argument with FWD and/or F/awd when operated only on highly tractive surfaces. Luckily I happen to live in an area wherein wintertime adverse road conditions are somewhat a rarity.

    But even so I carry one set of tire chains all year around and generally toss in the second set come fall. I do not hesitate to install tire chains at the first indication of need, rears initailly and then the fronts if traffic is really bad.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I plan on looking at them in February - not planning to buy until after the winter. Hopefully inventory will be better.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...folks. It'll keep your blood pressure down.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    not planning to buy until after the winter

    I haven't heard any reports of ADM being tacked on. Ford profits are looking good this quarter, so all the more reason to pump some vehicles to the dealers.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'm not concerned about ADM as I will X Plan it. Most dealers have just one or two in stock and most seem to be limiteds.

    As for Ford profits, yes they were up but they didn't meet analysts expectations. Stock took an 11% hit earlier today.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I'm shopping for an Explorer, one dealer here (NC) was adamant that they would only sell at MSRP, but I haven't seen anyone tacking on ADM. A friend of mine works for a large chain of dealers in the DC area and I'm going to go through them and lease, he was trying to find me the exact options/color combo I wanted. He found a few but none of the dealers were willing to do a dealer trade so he built one of his allocation to match my specs, should be here in 6 - 8 weeks.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Stock took an 11% hit earlier today.

    Buying opportunity. :)

    I guess they just started production on 12/1 so it'll be a while longer for inventory to build. There's 5 sort of near me, all Limiteds.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    Wait, Inventories will rise, dealers will deal.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..Inventories will rise.."

    But maybe not so soon. Ford may limit production of the F/awd model until the EcoBoost/twinForce gas-guzzling version is available in order to cash in on the HUGE profit margins of a $4000-6000 price markeup.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 2.0 ecoboost was already priced at $750, not $4K.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Towing with a FWD or F/awd just accelerates the rate of compromise.

    No more than with a rwd vehicle with similar capabilities. I've towed big trailers and small trailers with everything from a front wheel drive minivan to a 1 ton diesel dually.

    What matters is being within the limits of the vehicle... period. Proper tongue weight is a big deal that is easily dealt with by either properly distributing the load in the trailer or by using a weight distribution hitch, also trailer brakes should be on any trailer weighing more than a few thousand pounds.

    As for FWD vs RWD, not much of an issue unless in a low traction scenario such as snow or a slick boat ramp (which I've witnessed 2wd pickups having similar traction issues to a fwd vehicle).

    IMO, the biggest factor regarding trailer stability is wheel base. The vehicle with the longer wheelbase will generally have more stability towing a trailer vs a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase.

    Our first boat was about 3k lbs and 20' long from tongue to prop. We towed it for a few years with a Mecury Villager minivan. It towed fine, albeit slowly. Stability and braking were excellent. I traded the minivan in on an '01 Nissan Pathfinder, that had tons more power and a 5,000lb tow rating vs. the Villagers 3,500lbs. The villager had several inches more of wheelbase and it was noticeable when towing. It actually got pushed around less on the highway towing the boat than the Pathfinder did (though the PF's stability was good), even though the PF was rwd and had a full frame (okay it was some type of full-frame unibody hybrid).

    I do like the Explorer, but the 5,000lb tow rating would keep me from replacing my '07 Expedition with it. We have a boat and a travel trailer to tow that the Explorer just can't tow. Other than that issue it looks good to me.

    IMO, a vehicle like the new Explorer would be fine to tow a trailer under 4,000lbs. One thing many don't realize about tow ratings are that you must consider tongue weight and the GCWR. So with a 5,000lb tow rating, that usually only accounts for a 150lb driver in the tow vehicle. So if you have 1000lbs of people and gear in the tow vehicle that will count against the GCWR and tow rating, often times meaning the vehicle is only rated to tow a 4k trailer while hauling 1klbs of people and gear. Meaning my Expedition can't tow anywhere near 9k lbs if I'm also carrying 8 people and a top carrier with a weeks worth of gear in it.

    It's usually a good idea to not tow more than 80% of the vehicle tow rating on a regular occasion. Particularly with light duty vehicles.

    Ex. Our travel trailer is 8k lbs and 36' long. We keep it at a seasonal campsite so we don't tow it. But I did tow it to the campground with my Expedition which is rated to tow 9k lbs. Still, that was scary as hell due to the Expe only having a 119" wheelbase, that simply isn't enough to tow a trailer that is 36' long and over 10' tall. Even with a w/d hitch and sway control I was all over the road anytime I went much over 50 mph. I avoided highways as the thought of a semi passing me was terrifying. I won't tow it again with the Expedition unless it's a very short trip.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited January 2011
    Where..What...publication by FORD...???

    Plus it isn't just the engine up-pricing alone, what other up-priced models and/or option "packages" will be required to get an EcoBoost/TwinForce Gas-Guzzler. Have a look at current pricing.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..No more than with a rwd with similar capabilities.."

    The laws of physics say otherwise. RWD vehicles "spread" the need for traction to control the vehicle across two sets of tires, directional control in the front and motion control at the rear.

    To have a FWD with equal driving stability you would need to start with front tires with double the roadbed contact surface of a RWD vehicle. And the equation by no means ends there.
  • loudog2loudog2 Member Posts: 83
    Willard,

    So the explorer FWD/AWD would be fine with every day driving(ie. snow, ice, dry pavement)? You just think it won't stand up to off-road and towing?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    The laws of physics say otherwise. RWD vehicles "spread" the need for traction to control the vehicle across two sets of tires, directional control in the front and motion control at the rear.

    To have a FWD with equal driving stability you would need to start with front tires with double the roadbed contact surface of a RWD vehicle. And the equation by no means ends there.


    What I'm saying is that is far from the only factor in determine towing stability/performance. I've never had a stability issue towing with a FWD vehicle as long as the trailer total weight, tongue weight, frontal area, and length are within the capabilities of the tow vehicle.

    Anyone of the areas where the trailer is to big or heavy for the tow vehicle will cause stability issues regardless of FWD, RWD, or AWD.

    No question a FWD vehicle can't tow as much as a rwd vehicle. But back to the new Explorer it will be able to tow most 4k-lb trailers fine. If you need to tow more buy something rated to tow more and yes, it most likely will be RWD.

    You also need to consider how far and where you'll be towing. If your just going to a local lake then you can safely tow close to the tow rating, but if your going to be towing a trailer hundreds of miles through hilly/mountainous terrain, you don't want to be towing near the limit. Regardless of the vehicle. Trust me, I've been there.

    Something like a 20' boat will be a piece of cake with the Explorer. My neighbor tows his 21' Mastercraft all over the place with his MDX for the past 4 years w/o issue.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    You just think it won't stand up to off-road and towing?

    I don't know much about off roading, but it will be perfectly fine for towing a trailer that is within it's capability. I don't know what the full tow ratings are as most advertised tow ratings are essentially useless without knowing what the manufacture also rates max frontal area and max tongue weight. Boats are easier to tow because the wheels on the boat trailer are further from the tow vehicle rear axle and boats also have tongue weights of 5-10% vs 10-15% on most other trailers. Not to mention boats have a small frontal area, so they have far less wind drag.

    Meaning the Explorer probably could tow a 4500lb 21' boat just fine, but a 4,500lb box trailer with a potential tongue weight over 600lbs would be a big no no w/o a w/d hitch. Even with a w/d hitch I'd bet the Explorer is limited to a tongue weight of no more than 500lbs.

    I'd say realistically if you have a family of 4 that will be in the vehicle with you while towing, 3,500lbs or so really is the max you should tow. With people and gear in the tow vehicle you reduce how much you can tow.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I don't by any means plan to buy one of the new 2011 F/awd Explorers but here is some advice for those that do.

    I would modify the rear clutch circuit, simple switch probably, such that it would be open, the clutch totally disabled, unless I KNEW that the road surface traction was of question.

    "Snow, ice..." Enable the F/awd system AND install rear tire chains.

    Remember that it's not just you out there on that snow and ice, you're going to be playing dodge'm, like it or not.

    The 2011 F/awd Ford Explorer will be just fine on tractive surfaces. That probably means you might as well buy the less expensive FWD Exlorer unless the EcoBoost/TwinForce Gas-Guzzling engine "up-pricing" puts the price, as I would fully expect, within the range of the F/awd model.

    No "low-ball, base, I4's fielded.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Towing: Questions.

    At what weight range MUST you seriously begin considering the more simple (tongue compression actuated) TOAD brakes...? when, what weight electric braking..??

    At what weight range should/MUST you consider having tandem axles on the TOAD...?

    Towing is NOT just a simple matter of staying below the vehicle's factory weight limitations.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    edited January 2011
    Uhaul still won't rent you any trailer for an Explorer.
    It doesn't matter what generation is it. :(
    What is really strange to me is that for 2009, I paid more in property tax for my 2002 Explorer than I did in 2008.
    2009 bill arrived in January 2010.
    This is the first time I can ever remember that happening.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    At what weight range MUST you seriously begin considering the more simple (tongue compression actuated) TOAD brakes...? when, what weight electric braking..??

    Most state laws require trailer brakes for trailers weighing anywhere from 1,000lbs to 5,000lbs depending on the state. Most auto manufacturers recommend trailer brakes on anything over 1,000lbs. IIRC, both my Expedition and my previous Suburban had that recommendation. I think it's a good idea for trailers over 2k to have a minimum of surge brakes and a must by 3k lbs.

    Surge brakes work well up to maybe 5k-6k lbs. One thing to consider is weight distribution hitches and surge brakes can be a problem. There are a few specialized w/d setups that are suppose to work with surge brakes. But if your getting to the point where you need weight distribution, you probably will be better of with electric. It's nice to be able to activate the trailer brakes independently such as when the trailer is swaying.

    I'd definitely recommend electric over 5k lbs. That way in a panic stop, your brake controller can more quickly and more appropriately apply braking power to the trailer. Plus you can periodically check to make sure they are in working order with electric, that's hard to do with surge.

    Boats are a bit different in that you are dealing with continual submersion in water. The early electric brake setups were a nightmare in this environment, but the best systems today are electric over hydraulic, so that eliminates electric brake components being subject water intrusion.

    Tandem axle trailers are a must over 5k lbs IMO. They offer a more stable towing experience and they ride far smoother. Plus towing that much weight with a single axle means you only have brakes on one axle which will limit braking ability and stability.

    Towing is NOT just a simple matter of staying below the vehicle's factory weight limitations.

    True, there are many variables and no absolutes. Even with what I posted above it depends on many factors. A 1 ton dually will handle braking a 5k lb trailer far better than a vehicle like the Explorer.

    When the trailer being towed weighs more than the tow vehicle the game certainly changes.

    So with a vehicle like the Explorer it depends on what you're going tow with it. Oh, and never listen to what a sales person says it can tow. They are usually clueless.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Uhaul still won't rent you any trailer for an Explorer.
    It doesn't matter what generation is it. :(


    I thought they dropped that ridiculous policy. The 02 and later explorers are capable for their size.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    edited January 2011
    Before I made that post, I went to their website and tried the 02 and 11.
    It won't give you a price to rent a trailer.
    You have to look just below the pricing area to see some wording that says they won't rent a trailer for an Explorer due to lawsuits.
    Next May I need to move some of my kid's stuff.
    Think of a triangle. 750 miles on one side, 800 on another and 200+ connecting them.
    Since it looks like I would have to buy a trailer, maybe I should just get a new Explorer and we can take the 2 of them where we need to go and I can sell the '02 next fall.
    That would be tough because I still love my '02 EB.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2011
    And yet they'll let you tow behind the twin, a Mercury Mountaineer. At least they did last time I looked.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    edited January 2011
    I have read some stories about swapping out badges to get the "Wink. it's ok now".
    Maybe I could tape it over and write Lincoln on it.
    Scratch that now about 'KIA'? Easier to spell. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    will be required to get an EcoBoost/TwinForce Gas-Guzzle

    Gas-Guzzler compared to what? So you get an extra 100ft-lbs of torque, for a minimal penalty.

    The Ecoboost in a Taurus SHO gets better mileage than a Subaru WRX STI and the Ecoboost has more power and more weight to move around.

    In the F150 it offers 420 ft-lbs and 21 to 22 mpg hwy. Only way to get that kind of power and mileage in a full-size truck is to go diesel (though most can't anymore due to smog controls and the fact the HD pickups weigh a ton(s)).

    I'll agree it's not ground braking, but there isn't a 1/2 ton v8 truck available that can produce over 400ft-lbs of torque and get 20+mpg. So a 2-3 mpg improvement may not sound like much, but it is over 10%. Plus the F150 is quite a bit heavier than other 1/2 tons.

    Now that is just comparing EPA numbers, I'll be curious to see how it compares in the real world. I'd love to have an Ecoboost in my Expedition. More power and bit more fuel economy. What's not to like.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The Mountaineer, being the upscale model, may have had just enough extra weight "lower down weight", to make a difference in the need to lower tire pressure in order to lower the propensity for rollover.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2011
    Maybe so; still have trouble with the blanket policy in view of the "mechanically identical" models of the Mountaineer, Navajo and Aviator made over the years. The curb weights for the Explorers surely varied by year too, not to mention that the 4 door versions are heavier than the 2 doors.

    Be curious to see what happens now that the 2011s are out.
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