2011 Ford Explorer

dieselone · March 2011

I'd like to think that maybe Ford came to their senses regarding building a FWD Ford Explorer, halted production until the factory can be retooled to build an Explorer sized Expedition.

And what would that accomplish? I like my Expedition just the way it is. An Ecoboost v6 or better yet 4-5L diesel option would be perfect. I don't want it any smaller. If I wanted something smaller, I'd buy the current Explorer or something like it.

dieselone · March 2011

Were I in charge at Ford I would "license" the Cayenne design in totality, including the Cayenne hybrid w/DFI but without the forced induction.

Yeah, I'm sure $70+k Explorers that only seat 5 that will get at most a whopping increase of 1-3mpg will just fly off the lots.

stever · March 2011

"Ford said the crucial new Explorer has been the fastest-turning vehicle in showrooms for the first two months this year, and although its sales total of 9,657 for February remains a far cry from the Explorers glory days of more than twice that much, it still represents a promising turnaround for the nameplate that for the past several years has been all but ignored by evolving U.S. buyers."

After Plump Feb, Automakers Party Like It's 1999 (AutoObserver)

nvbanker · March 2011

Ford HAS a low performance Cayenne - it's the Edge. Which is expensive enough as it is. Ford can't sell cars at the Porsche price point.

wwest · March 2011

I've never been a fan of the Durango and Jeep was dropped from my list once Chrysler aquired it.

I guess I harp on Ford because I've always been a fan and just expect more.

Ford clearly knows how to build a DFI, Direct Fuel Injection, engine as that's one of the two main features of the "EcoBoost" moniker. So why are we stuck with a N/A V6 with SFI when DFI would allow it to have a 12:1 compression ratio and therefore not seen a gas-guzzler in comparison.

It's bad enough that the "EcoBoost" engine series runs most of the time in Gas-guzzling detuned/derated mode but why must the N/A V6 also suffer..?

Ford has the design and manufacturing capability to builb N/A DFI engines so why not put it to use across the board...?

wwest · March 2011

My assumption is that unlike Porsche or VW Ford could build a Stripped down Cayenne "clone" at a price comparable to the new Explorer. Then we would have a STELLER R/awd system and a N/A DFI V6 engine.

Factory in Mississippi..?

wwest · March 2011

"..promising turnaround..

Ford says that they want to populate 80% of their fleet with the EcoBoost engine within the next 2-3 years. And charge a $4000 to $7,000 premium for same...?

Good luck with that...!

dieselone · March 2011

So why are we stuck with a N/A V6 with SFI when DFI would allow it to have a 12:1 compression ratio and therefore not seen a gas-guzzler in comparison.

Well, considering the few competing vehicles that are similar in size weight that do use DFI, the difference in FE is negligible.

Use the base Cayenne for example. It's similar in size and weight and power to the Explorer. It uses a 300hp DI 3.6 v6. The Explorer uses a 290hp 3.5 v6 with SFI.

The Cayenne has an 8speed trans, weighs 4400lbs and is 191" long. The Explorer weighs over 4,700lbs, is a 197" long, has a 6speed trans and the fuel economy for the Explorer is 17/23 vs 16/23 for the Porsche.

I ask how is one considered a gas guzzler and the other not?

While I'm all for the latest and greatest technologies that improve both efficiency and performance, I don't see DI being the silver bullet you claim it to be. Sure it has the potential to improve FE. But it's certainly not enough alone to make a gas guzzler a fuel sipper. Not going to happen w/o other types of changes.

dieselone · March 2011

Ford says that they want to populate 80% of their fleet with the EcoBoost engine within the next 2-3 years. And charge a $4000 to $7,000 premium for same...?

Good luck with that...!

Where do you get your info. According to Ford's website. Going from a 3.7v6 to an Ecoboost v6 from the 5.0 v8 can be as little at $1,500 depending on the config of the truck.

But yeah, if you look up a base regular cab, short bed XL trim f150 with the base v6 and want to get the Ecoboost it will cost $4,300, but that also means going to an 8' bed.

If Ford decides to charge $4k plus to go the an Ecoboost 4cyl from the v6 in the Explorer, they simply won't sell many.

explorerx4 · March 2011

Dealers here in CT are running out of inventory also.
Local dealer had 7 a couple of weeks ago, now down to 2.
Those 2 are a Limited for 48k+ and an XLT 39k, no moonroof.
They sold their last 2010 which I sort of had my eye on.
msrp was 43k+

wwest · March 2011

It seems to me that if DFI provides enough "headroom" to accommodate the boost of a turbo then going DFI only would/could provide somehing in the range of 20% FE inprovement.

Compare the Cadillac DFI V6 with the non DFI V6.

dieselone · March 2011

Compare the Cadillac DFI V6 with the non DFI V6.

I have. In the CTS, the DI 3.6 gets a whopping 1 mpg increase on the highway and the same city rating versus a non DI 3.6. It does provide about 50 more HP.

Going down to GM's 3.0 DI v6 gets the same mileage as the DI 3.6.

I've yet to see an example where a DI alone gets anywhere near a 20% increase in fuel economy.

The DI 3.0 in the Cadillac SRX AWD gets the same mileage as the "gas guzzling" Explorer w/o DI in AWD form has 265hp vs 290 in the Explorer and weighs 400lbs less.

What am I missing here?

robr2 · March 2011

What am I missing here?

Bias.

wwest · March 2011

Subtract the additional displacement volume or HP to get "equal to equal" and adjust the FE numbers accordingly and what do you get...??

dieselone · March 2011

Subtract the additional displacement volume or HP to get "equal to equal" and adjust the FE numbers accordingly and what do you get...??

What you get is no where near a 20% increase in fuel economy that I've seen.

Why am I doing all of the work;) But I'll bite one last time.

Okay, I'll do it your way. The closest example I can find would be to compare a Honda Accord with a Hyundai Sonata. They both use 4 cylinder engines displacing 2.4L. As many know, the Hyundai uses DI and produces 198hp and 184 ft-lbs of torque.

The Accord's 2.4L 4 cylinder is not direct injected and produces 190HP and 162 ft-lbs of torque. So the Hyundai produces a little more power. As for FE the Accord has a 5speed auto and the Hyundai uses a 6 speed. The Accord appears to weigh a 100lbs or so more than the Sonata. That aside, the FE is:

Sonata 22/35
Accord 23/34.

Using your logic, the Sonata should be getting 26/42.

kyfdx · March 2011

2011 Ford Explorer...

And.. I'd like to hear about the actual vehicle...

Thanks!

fordcustsrvc · March 2011

Hi buckle1,

My name is Seni from Ford Customer Service. I see that you are having a hard time finding an Explorer. We would be happy to find a dealer near you that has one available. Please feel free to call the Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673 at your convenience. We are unfortunately unable to address your concern on a public forum.

Kind regards,
Seni
Ford Customer Service Division

occupant1 · March 2011

I don't see how they're not available in Atlanta. Even the one horse dealer in Hillsboro TX has two of these things. They had three a couple weeks ago. All different. There were two white Limiteds and a red XLT before, now there's a red Limited and a maroon XLT. Still haven't seen a base model with the hubcaps, but then again we'll probably go with an XLT to get the Touch, Power Tailgate, and Charcoal interior. Seems you can no longer get the black cloth interior on the base model like the configurator on the FordVehicles website used to offer. So an XLT it is. The Texas Ford Dealers website lets me search all over the place. Is there not a dealer-run website for Georgia Ford Dealers? I can't seem to find one. But I searched a few random north Georgia dealers and see plenty of 2011 Explorers. Try Blue Ridge, Cherokee-Woodstock or Sandy Springs, they have two each. Wade has four. Even Cherokee in Alpharetta has one. Gwinnet Place and Bleakley have not updated their website to include the 2011 Explorer. Don't feel bad. Even JC Whitney hasn't added it to their makes/models database.

nyccarguy · March 2011

I sat in a 2011 Ford Explorer Limited at a local auto show. The interior was gorgeous - Audi caliber. I was also impressed with the Explorer's fit & finish.

I'm looking for an SUV as my next vehicle. I still love my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH that just hit 138,000 miles on my way home from work last night. I need something with more space (I've got a house & 2 boys now), 3 rows of seats, and 4 wheel drive.

I'm really just in the research stages right now & am probably not going to buy anything until the end of next summer. The 3 trucks I'm most interested in are the Ford Explorer, Dodge Durango, & Honda Pilot.

I think the Pilot is going to be redesigned sometime in the near future, but I like the fact that it is 1st and foremost a Honda. I like the boxy shape, flat folding floor, & the fact that the 3rd row has LATCHes for car seats. The EX-L with Navigation (4WD) is priced just right.

The Explorer is beautiful as far as trucks/SUVs go. Has a gorgeous interior & a loaded XLT has all the gadgets I want (Except HID headlights).

The Durango is very manly. The optional HEMI V8 must rock. The interior is finished well & I love all the chrome on the Citiadel Model (especially those 20" Chrome Wheels). Unfortunately the Durango Citadel is priced close to $50,000 which is out of my league.

My favorite SUV out right now is the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'd buy one in a heartbeat except that it doesn't have 3 rows of seats.

Looking forward to lurking for a while & seeing how people like their new 2011 Explorers.

nyccarguy · March 2011

How come the 2011 Explorer doesn't have LATCH anchors for the 3rd row of seats?

sloretto · March 2011

it does.

robr2 · March 2011

I'm stronly leaning towards the Explorer as well. We decided to skip the Pilot - having owned Hondas for 20 years it's time to move on. Also, not a fan of the VCM technology.

We've also looked at the Acadia - very nice but pricey and the Mazda CX9 -felt dated inside. We're also going to check out the Veracruz.

explorerx4 · March 2011

My '02 Explorer is getting a bit old, so i have been thinking about replacing with a new one. I have been really wanting one.
Based on reading your post and my own other thoughts, I am thinking I probably won't buy one.
My kids are college age, so it probably makes more sense to keep my '02 going for a while.
The new one is close to the size of an Expedition. Had one of those and didn't really like driving it on a daily basis.
The 3 row feature is great. Originally each kid had their own row.
As they grew up, they were more willing to sit in the same row.
My favorite was them both sitting in the 3rd row seat and folding up the 2nd row seats so they could stretch their legs straight out.

akirby · March 2011

The new explorer is unibody and won't drive anything like an expedition or an old explorer. It will drive more like the Edge, only a little bigger and that's a good thing.

My wife had 2 Explorers, An Expedition and an Aviator before going to the Edge 2 years ago. Night and day.

At least test drive the Edge and Explorer before you decide.

wwest · March 2011

I don't think unibody is the issue, an issue. However the cross-ways mounted engine is. The new Explorer is a base FWD vehicle, front driveline is SOLIDLY coupled to the transaxle and is therefore ALWAYS driven.

Ford's sad experience with this type of F/awd system, Escape, Mariner, does not bode well for use in the must heavier Explorer. For at least ten years now Ford has been experimenting with various fixes, PATCHES, to alleviate the premature failures in those drivelines.

And the "beat" goes on....

To that end they have added cooling to the new Explorer's PTO assembly and maybe even the rear clutch/diffl assembly.

Even Honda (Ridgeline), with their version of a pre-emptive F/awd system, the VTM-4 system, has had its share of problems with driveline component failures. In their case the weakest link seems to have been the torque converter lock-up clutch. Honda switched to the SH-AWD system for the Ridgeline and quite possibly revised the control firmware to lower the stress/HEAT on the various driveline components.

If the new Explorer's driveline components begin to fail that will undoubtedly be Ford's first move for a "fielded" fleet fix, a reflash to lower the F/awd functionality.

Personally my fix would be to fully disable the rear clutch coupling EXCEPT in KNOWN low traction conditions. In low traction conditions individual wheelslip/spin would alleviate the driveline stress/HEAT from driveline windup and/or tire "scrubbing".

explorerx4 · March 2011

My post was not about how it would drive, which I have no doubt would be fine.
I did drive an Edge for about a week once, and I liked it.
My issue is with the size of the Explorer. For me, I realized it's a bigger vehicle than I want as a daily driver.

jtiner · March 2011

I've been reading through the forums trying to get an idea of what folks have experienced regarding local inventory of 2011 Explorers. Is there just a shortage of Explorers?
I've been searching local inventory (central Maine) for about four weeks now, and there are only four Explorers available.......... I've contacted Ford to ask about inventory. I've also asked the dealers, who of course said "they just fly off the lot"; of course these same four vehicles haven't flown anywhere.
Is there a production slowdown?

nyccarguy · March 2011

thanks - I'll have to look again.

fordcustsrvc · March 2011

Edmunds:

This is Seni with Ford Customer Service. Since you are only in the research stages, I would like to let you know that the 2012 Explorer can be expected late summer. The 2012 Explorer will feature improved fuel economy over the 3.5L V6. We are very excited about this Explorer and again expect that it will be available late summer 2011. When you begin the shopping stage, please be sure to visit www.Ford.com/Incentives, at your convenience, for incentives in your area.

Seni
Ford Customer Service Division

wwest · March 2011

Seni;

Wow, the 2011 Explorer isn't even dry behind the ears and you're already pedaling the 2012...?

Does that mean something went awry with the 2011..?

Does that mean the upcoming 2012 Explorer will getting a more fuel efficient N/A V6 with DFI..? With the performance gain of DFI you could even downsize the engine displacementvolume to get even better FE while still holding the HP/torque at the current V6 level.

Or are you still in the mode of foisting off the DETUNED/DERATED GAS-GUZZING GASHOGISH EcoBoost (TwinForce) I4 as being environmentally conscious and fuel efficient...??

With gas prices headed north of $4 I would think you would begin reconsidering marketing to the "boy-racer" mentality types as that market is getting smaller by the moment.

brwndoggy · March 2011

Fords new business model - supply/demand...

Supply fewer fully optioned out explorer's and people will buy not wanting to wait for their custom order.

seeing 1-2 in AUstin, mostly optioned out.

occupant1 · March 2011

DFI is not the end-all-be-all of automotive technology.

Anyway, if I had my way, I'd be hauling my family in an 84-85 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon with the diesel V8 and 200-4R transmission. 30+mpg and 8 seat belts. Governors and injector pumps were faultless by then.

But the wife says no minivans, no station wagons, and most especially nothing with woodgrain.

So the Explorer gets the best mileage of any vehicle that seats seven and still has primarily US content. 85% according to this month's issue of C&D. Sadly the outgoing 2010 Explorer was 90% US content. But 85% is better than every other SUV available today. Talk about setting the curve!!!

wwest · March 2011

"..DFI is not the end-all-be-all of automotive technology..."

I sincerely hope not...

But it is the current next step...or one of....

I'm voting for SuperCharging as the new step.

wwest · March 2011

"..diesel V8..."

Have you not noted that diesel is now "value-priced"...?

rbk7 · March 2011

A bad experience with a dealer (Liberty Ford at Solon, OH) can change your mind about a vehicle. I envy the ones that waited for your Ford Explorer. I wish I could had the same experience, I just took a leftover and even worst they treated us like garbage. Now I have ...well my husband has his Ford Explorer and I hope to have my Honda Civic 2011. Customer Service is key for a business, if you treat like "garbage" to your clients, then there is something called "word of mouth". Then $800 are nothing when you loose just ONE future sale.

akirby · March 2011

Willard - we've given you multiple examples where DI alone doesn't buy you the type of FE improvement you're imagining. Your theory simply isn't reality.

wwest · March 2011

What am I "imagining..?"

Every little bit helps...?

wwest · March 2011

Cadillac

3.6L V6 SFI 17/26 263HP

3.6L V6 DFI 18/26 304HP

Simple math indicates the 3.6L DFI engine could be reduced in displacement volume by >15% and still match the HP of the non-DFI engine.

15% savings at the gas pump...?

nyccarguy · March 2011

explorerx4 - if the new Explorer is too big for you, check out the Jeep Grand Cherokee. If I didn't need a 3rd row of seats, the Jeep dealer would be the 1st place I head to.

nyccarguy · March 2011

Thanks Seni. Are you talking about the EcoBoost 4cyl? Id love all the gas mileage I can get, but I read the 4cyl Eco Boost Explorers will be FWD only. One of the primary reasons (if not the #1 reason for most in the Northeast) of having an SUV is because of the 4 wheel drive.

wwest · March 2011

The "EcoBoost" 4 cylinder will probably have more than adequate HP/torque for acceleration purposes, "GAS-GUZZLING" mode, especially less the weight of the F/awd system. But when it comes to simply cruising along at a reasonably constant speed it MUST run in detuned/derated mode, <10:1 CR rather than the DFI standard of 12:1, and therefore will probably struggle, lowering the hwy FE dramatically, to hold a constant speed even on level ground.

Even less the F/awd system weight the new Ford Explorer is still simply to big and heavy for a 4 banger, and certainly not one running in detuned/derated mode.

So I suspect that configuration will never see the light of day in a dealer's showroom.

vrm · March 2011

Actually fuel savings on the Explorer will be 20 to 22%.

nvbanker · March 2011

if the new Explorer is too big for you, check out the Jeep Grand Cherokee. If I didn't need a 3rd row of seats, the Jeep dealer would be the 1st place I head to.

Nice looking, the Jeep, but Chrysler has about 5th from the BOTTOM quality in the new JD Power initial quality list. Ford is close to the top. I wouldn't chance a Jeep. Just my opinion.

wwest · March 2011

As compared to what..?

djmgmail · March 2011

Just got a 2011 Explorer. The moonroof doesnt seem to open up enough on tilt. Most cars give you 2 inches or so. I can not even see daylight with this truck-it barely moves.

Problem is the dealer does not know how far it should open either. No explores on the lot to compare and no service manual (?!).

Anybody have a moonroof ? Does it open far enough to see out of or can you stick your hand out of it?

All I get is a little more road noise and no air.

-Martin

nyccarguy · March 2011

I drove through a dealer's lot last night. They had tons of Edges, Escapes, 3 Expeditions, lots of Tauri (Tauruses?), but only 1 Explorer. A fully loaded Limited in Purple with a beige interior.

akirby · March 2011

Are you holding the button? Just push and release. I would expect to see at least 2-3 inches.

djmgmail · March 2011

Yes, I tried holding the tilt button. Service had access to it for 3 days. All they could come up with is that it doesnt look right, but until you can prove that it is broken-we will not fix it.

Only had it for 30 days and 3 days of service already. So much for buying my first 1st Ford

djmgmail · March 2011

According to the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn0t1J-haf4
It doesnt open very far when tilting - 6:15 into the video

I only see a little crack of daylight in the corner

wwest · March 2011

".....mostly optioned out..."

Not the best way to "restart" the Ford Explorer market...

Price it in the class of the Lexus SUV but it still says....

FORD

Look at how Lexus "started" with the under-market-priced LS400....

2011 Ford Explorer

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