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TR-6's. Love'm? Hate'm?
For various reasons, I've kind of been thinking that a little sports car/convertible would be fun to toss around and I've always liked TR-6's. Problem is, I know "bupkus" about them other than they were made between 1969 and 1976. Something tells me those in the know here will suggest the early models, before the big rubber bumpers appeared. But, I think CPI gives a higher value to the later model years indicating they may be a better car. Plus, I'm guessing those rubber bumper stoppers could be removed - and nobody from the BMV is going to question that at this point. Mechanically and suspension-wise, is there a better year range to focus on?
I'm open to other brands/models of affordable sports cars, but would still like to keep this thread pretty TR6 specific - at least in the beginning. I see current TR6 listings for supposedly nice ones for around $25,000 (there's one on eBay now for around $35K I believe). But, I would think I'd be able to get a nice one for around $15,000? Is that reasonable or am I too low?
One I've seen for sale has a Toyota 5-speed tranmission (from a Supra maybe?) which I would think would be a worthy upgrade. I guess some TR6's came with a factory electric over-drive for highway cruising. Was that a reliable feature? "Electric Overdrive" sounds like a maintenance nightmare to me, but perhaps they were bulletproof? Would like to hear comments about that.
So, any discussion about these cars regarding what to look for and how to tell a good one from a bad one (obviously rust/rot is a less than stellar characteristic) would appreciated. Thanks.
I'm open to other brands/models of affordable sports cars, but would still like to keep this thread pretty TR6 specific - at least in the beginning. I see current TR6 listings for supposedly nice ones for around $25,000 (there's one on eBay now for around $35K I believe). But, I would think I'd be able to get a nice one for around $15,000? Is that reasonable or am I too low?
One I've seen for sale has a Toyota 5-speed tranmission (from a Supra maybe?) which I would think would be a worthy upgrade. I guess some TR6's came with a factory electric over-drive for highway cruising. Was that a reliable feature? "Electric Overdrive" sounds like a maintenance nightmare to me, but perhaps they were bulletproof? Would like to hear comments about that.
So, any discussion about these cars regarding what to look for and how to tell a good one from a bad one (obviously rust/rot is a less than stellar characteristic) would appreciated. Thanks.
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Comments
Some basics:
1. If you don't like a car that rides as hard as a stagecoach and smells like oil and lets rain in and tortures you with niggling electrical issues, then don't buy a TR6. They all do these things and there's no way to stop them from doing it.
2. Never EVER buy a TR6 needing major work. There is nothing worse than a junky TR6. It'll never be made right
3. Be aware of possible frame damage due to rust, especially in the rear suspension anchor points. Also look for rust in the rockers, and above the tail lights.
4. The best ones would be 1969-1970. In '71 they dropped the compression ratio (which you could fix_) and in 1973 added the dreaded rubber bumpers and raised the ride height---yes, you can remove the rubbers and put on standard chrome over-riders.
5. Don't listen to people who are not knowledgable about these cars. They are VERY rugged if you take care of them.
Perhaps the best description I've heard for a TR6 is "the best of the TRs, but it was old the day it was new".
I like to call them "a man's car" because they steer hard, ride hard, shift hard and die hard. This is no Miata.
But on a warm summer's day, on the right road, and with the right music or company----it's heaven on earth in that car.
:shades:
http://monterey.craigslist.org/cto/2196418340.html
And here's one you don't want:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/2237241823.html
He lived in the New Haven, CT area and on one of those days you described, we took the Merritt Parkway on our way to Yankee Stadium.
Too bad he didn't on the other side of the state. We could have taken the Saw Mill.
I think that was my first ride in a convertible and your post brought back some of it like it was yesterday.
If your really going to look for a TR6 I would stick to cars that have always been in the southwest. Rust is a big issue, but be wary, even cars from dry climates can have serious rust issues.
Some day I'm going to tackle those rubber bumpers and switch my MGB over to chrome ones.
That was back in the late 80's, so I'm sure both of those cars have returned to the Earth by now.
It's a matter of taste but for me a good twin cam four that'll really rev is better than the torquey six but if I had to do a lot of highway driving I might go for a big six.
I don't agree with Shifty that there's nothing you can do to improve the basic faults of the TR-6. Lots of guys replace the finicky Lucas electrics with an electronic ignition and it's worth looking into moving the battery to the trunk. It's murder on batteries to sit right above and behind the motor.
Eventually you'll replace the exhaust system and the top. You could look into a hardtop because as Shifty said, they're pretty leaky.
A thorough inspection for body rust is mandatory, and keep in mind that you can buy a Low mileage 2nd Gen Porsche Boxster (987) for around what a good TR-6 costs?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
You lose a lot of information and feedback experience when you choose a Miata over a TR6--some of it admittedly rather intangible, and some of it of no interest to a Miata owner.
I personally have trouble seeing myself in a Miata. Even the MINI Cooper S was hard for me, but I managed to stay away from cute colors and I made a pretty fast, hard-riding noisy car out of it.
I'm proud of that
You are correct in that those cars offered a unique (if primitive) automotive experience unmatched by anything modern automotive experience and if one has the enthusiasm to deal with the fact that your car needs you more than you need it it's a good way to go.
I just thought I'd note that this fellow might consider that there are some more modern, less fussy alternatives for the same dough. It depends what he is looking for. I'm sure one could do to a Miata what you've done with your Mini-Cooper. A sporty exhaust would increase noise and maybe power. Stiffer springs/shocks would give sportier ride handling and there are a gazillion aftermarket options for more power. It's too bad you can't get a Miata (or a Cooper) without power steering which inevitably fails to match the road feel you get in those old roadsters.
As I once wrote those old Brits may have been lousy automobiles but as automotive experiences they had a lot to offer.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Early Bristols and AC-Bristols used a prewar BMW design. Gordon-Keebles and later Bristols used American V8s, GM for the Keeble and MoPar for the Bristols.
Even Lotus used Ford blocks as a basis for their 1600cc twin-cammers. Supposedly Lotus is working on their own 100% Lotus motor for their next gen sports cars.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The Bristol-Frazer Nash-BMW connection is odd and complex, starting with importing and then looting/liberating...and how relevant are they now?
And now the RR Ghost is just a glorified 7er :shades:
The TR6 engine takes some of the thrashing-motor annoyance away from the typical British sports car, so that's a welcome improvement. It's smooth and pretty fast---plenty of torque and enough power for modern freeways.
It also has a lot less scuttle-shake than a TR4, the latter offering you the privilege of watching the windshield dance sideways when you go over railroad tracks.
In general the Triumph IRS was a primitive design but then primitive was a defining characteristic of most Triumphs.
What's a good TR-3A go for these days Shifty?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
My old MGB had more leg room. It probably had more head room too, but it didn't matter because the top of the windshield was in my field of vision.
Not entirely true. I have a 1994 Miata Type R which came with manual steering, windows, and locks.
Shifty tried sitting in it one day, so I totally understand why he bought a Mini.
I drove a friend's TR6 once (they were the original CA owners). Nice torquey 6 cylinder, great exhaust note, but very scary brakes. I wouldn't dare drive it over 30 mph, it was that scary... Either I am just too used to modern brakes or there were braking issues on that car...
:confuse:
I knew a guy who once worked in one of the few shops that would actually work on them. He said they called them Lawn Chairs because they usually sat around not running.
Still, I doubt if there many as nice as this one if you can overlook the color.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/2233230116.html
And, why would he call it a Fiat Lancia? Did Fiat have anything to do with these?
Lancia survives( on life support) in Europe where Fiat Group is said to be considering rebadging Chrysler 200s as Lancias. It'd be better if they just stopped making Lancias altogether IMO.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I wish someone made a reproduction model, with all of todays safety features...
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Oh, you mean a real car :shades:
Yes you are right looks are a matter of taste. That being said I think the TR-3 was the best looking Triumph, it is the most British looking of them all IMHO.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That said there is a unique appeal to the TR-3 with it's cut down doors, flat screen and crank hole (non-working feature in TR-4s/250s but functional in TR-2/3s0
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I also agree that a 7-yr-old Boxster would be the way to go...
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Thats what I mean, those cut down doors scream British. Or at least to me they do.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mr. Original
Mr. Modified
While the originality of the green one is quaint, TR6's are regularly modified - usually resulting in a better overall car. As an example, the Toyota 5-speed is a pretty routine upgrade. There's even a conversion kit available. Not sure I'm in love with the roll bar (would make it tough to buy a car cover I would think), but I love the diamond white paint which clearly isn't stock.
Both cars are priced about the same, though my research suggests to me something less than $20K seems more market correct (would appreciate some input on that).
If it were a 1955 Cadillac, I'd prefer it to be all stock. But, a TR6 is kind of like having a blank canvas that's waiting to be enhanced by the artist within. Both cars above appeal to me in different ways. One issue that concerns me with the modified TR6 is the minimal tire clearance due to the larger wheels (15" is stock). The owner claims he researched the wheel choice with Triumph owner groups and says he's not experienced any tire rubbing issues. But, with only 1" tire clearance in the front and 2" in the rear, that just doesn't seem like very much to me. Anyone care to dispute that???? I'm sure the competition springs help in that regard, but I wonder if they make the car ride even MORE like a log truck. Here in Indiana, we hear tales and have read stories about smooth roads that other U.S. citizens enjoy. So, a car that doesn't rattle my fillings every time I roll over an expansion joint is not a trivial issue to this Hoosier.
Comments about these two cars are highly encouraged . . . . .
Of the two cars I like the green one, mostly for the color and the obvious care that it has had. I think white is a poor color for a sports car but those Minilite-style Panasports are really cool and period correct. Moreover I think you're right in saying that originality counts for little in cars like these.
As for tire rubbing, it might be an issue. It was when I switched from bias-ply Goodyears to 185x15 Dunlop radials on my TR-4A. I only had a minimal problem at full lock but it'd be a tight fit with 16 or 17 inch wheels.
The extra ride height of post '73 cars might give a little more leeway for bigger tires but given the amount of suspension travel at the rear I'd be leery of a bigger tire.
You pays your $$ and Takes your choice.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Anybody know for sure????
:P
Perhaps you could acquire a British-spec motor with the petrol injection worth @ least 30hp IIRC. I think you'd have to do serious work on the rear suspension to accommodate more extra power than that.
Moss Motors is the place to look.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
They also raised the car a few inches which severly affected the handling.
Wow...from Cadillacs to British Sports Cars! Talk about being all over the board! It'll be interesting to see what you eventually buy if you ever do pull the trigger!
This coming from a man who made a hard and loud car out of a Mini Cooper S? :P
While I wouldn't classify the white one as a "boy racer", isn't that kind of the point of owning a TR6? I mean other than the diamond white paint (which I love that color btw), the Panasport wheels (a VERY common upgrade to any British sports car) and roll bar (again, a VERY common upgrade), the car looks bone stock to anyone walking by it. TR6's to us "mature" adults are kind of like what a Honda Civic is a 20-something tuner head. There are no TR6 rules as far as I can tell. Yeah, the white one won't win any originality awards at a Triumph show. Then again, you probably won't see another one there like it - and I tend to lean toward the later distinction. With enough time and money, anyone can have an authentically stock TR6. That doesn't take much imagination.
As long as the modifications are done tastefully (which is the case with the white one in my opinion), I don't see there being a problem.
Can anyone tell me if there is that much of a performance difference between a 1973 and earlier TR6 and one manufactured in 1974 and later?
Perhaps not, I can't find many good numbers but according to Wikipedia the TR-250, which used the same motor/carbs as US spec 1969-73 TR6s, was rated @ 111hp and could do 0-60 in 10.6 seconds (your wife's SUV could blow it away).
They say post '73 TR6 motors were rated @ 104hp (not much less but still no more than the TR-4A's 4-banger).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
No big changes in horsepower for the TR6; however the early ones with Lucas fuel injection were substantially more powerful.
I'm sure you could get 150HP out of that engine with some clever mods, but it would require cylinder head work I think to bump compression and get better breathing.
I wonder if a Datsun 240Z six would fit in there?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
:P