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BMW X3 Lease Questions

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey microchip. You really should find out what this truck's selling price is. You wouldn't finance or pay cash for this truck without knowing what you were being charged for it right. Not knowing the selling price of a leased vehicle is similar to that. This number makes it much easier to tell how good a deal you are getting. If you let me know what the selling price is, I will gladly tell you what I think of this deal.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi z0rglub. As long as the demo vehicle that you are interested in has never been titled it should still technically be considered a "new" vehicle and it would be eligible for BMW Financial Services' special lease program. The money factor that you were quoted looks good to me. I actually believe that BMW FS' new May buy rate for the 2007 X3 is .00215 with the payment of a security deposit at lease signing. A selling price of $32,000 would be a very good deal if you were able to get it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks siuside :) . The money factor that you were quoted for this truck looks good to me. It is right in line with BMW Financial Services' current buy rate for this model. I personally would want more of a discount on it though. The 2007 BMW X3 that you described has a spread of at least $3,500 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price, but you are only being given a discount of $900. It wouldn't hurt to comparison shop a little bit to see if you you can do better than this. Make sure to stop by the following discussion to see how much other community members have paid for similar trucks lately: "BMW X3: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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  • hugo5hugo5 Member Posts: 68
    I am looking to find out the price(msrp & sales Price) of a total base 2007 X3
    Lease would be for 36 month with 10k miles.
    what is the May residual value and MF?
    Thanks,
    Hugo
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    68% residual value and 0.00215 MF.
  • hugo5hugo5 Member Posts: 68
    thanks! Is the base price listed on edmunds right for msrp @ $38,000 and invoice @ $34,960. If so, what would be a good negotiated price?
  • prothproth Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the info. It's appreciated.
  • joechicago7joechicago7 Member Posts: 22
    Hello everyone,

    36 month - 15k/year leases use a residual value of 0.65

    Can someone let me know the residual value for high mileage leases? (such as 16k, 17k, 18k, and 20k)?

    Thanks
  • 4kids4kids Member Posts: 7
    Hi...we were interested in leasing an X3...we should've done so in Jan when the programs were really good...but anyhow, does BMW offer specials during the Memorial Day Weekend? I called a few dealers and some said yes and some said no and weren't able to give much more info than that. :confuse: Any predictions?
  • shagzieshagzie Member Posts: 8
    My first lease and also first car purchase alone. I'm thinking about walking in with these numbers:
    MSRP: $47,660
    Purchase Price: $45,917.00
    36mnths 10k miles
    MF: .00255 (given by local dealer)
    Residual: 68% (given by local dealer)
    Trade-in: $8,500
    WV sales tax: 5%
    Acquisition: $795 (given by local dealer)
    Security Deposit: $400 (given by local dealer)

    With the edmunds calculator, my monthly payment would be $381.11, if I did it correctly. Are these good numbers, talk them down lower, or just wait cause this isn't a good time for an X3 lease? Being female, I'm just worried about getting ripped off. Thanks!! April :confuse:
  • joechicago7joechicago7 Member Posts: 22
    I bought an X3 this week (in the chicago area) and I got $2,600 under MSRP. You are only getting a $1,743 discount.

    Also, I had a trade-in and I just took the trade in value upfront. Your payment will be higher and you might lose the sales tax break, but you don't risk losing the money if your car is stolen or totaled.
  • shagzieshagzie Member Posts: 8
    Thanks Joe. I came up with the $1,743 number on Edmunds (what people are actually paying for this exact car). So now I want at least that but will go for more. Maybe I'll buy the Negioations for Dummies book :shades: The gentleman at the the dealership stated that Gap insurance is included in the lease. I'll have to look into the details but I just assumed if the car was stolen or totalled, that would be taken care of. At the end of the lease, I am still considering purchasing it. I'd also thought of maybe putting down half of the $8500 and putting the other in a good savings account to use later if I did decide to do so. Thanks again, April
  • shagzieshagzie Member Posts: 8
    I read your message again, and now I understand what you're saying about putting the $8,500 down. I'd still be losing it if the car was stolen or totalled. Sorry I'm a little slow today. April
  • joechicago7joechicago7 Member Posts: 22
    Yes. Just taking the $8,500 upfrount would add about $250 to your monthly payment.

    Your car must really be loaded. Mine was loaded with a MSRP of $45k. You must be getting the sport package and 18" wheels also.
  • jojo718jojo718 Member Posts: 7
    Thanx for the follow-up "Car Man". Do you know anything about the Credit Card points.. have you or anyone cashed those in??? Was it straight forward or not??? I'm gonna take the hit on the miles, but probably order my custom vehicle. Any further advise you can offer will be greatly appreciated....
  • tatereldertaterelder Member Posts: 3
    hey I was looking to lease a New X3. when I contacted the Dealership (in Kansas City) a fully loaded MSRP around 46,000 -- 36 months -- 15k/year mileage was like $715 a month. I haven't yet been in to negotiate a lower price off the MSRP, but how are you guys getting these leases for the $450 - $550 range? they said that the taxes and licensing was included, will just negotiating the purchase price to about $43,000 get my lease under $600? or how in the world can I get my lease payment near the $500 range?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi joechicago7. 15,000 miles per year is the highest mileage allowance that BMW Financial Services publishes residual values for. If you need to drive more than this, you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until the end of your lease and have to pay an excess mileage penalty. I'm not sure exactly how much BMW FS charged per additional mile at signing, but someone at the dealership that you are working with, either your salesperson or the F&I person, should be able to tell you.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi 4kids. The dealers that told you BMW offers Memorial Day specials were just trying to get you to come in so that they could sell you a vehicle. BMW did not do anything special for Memorial Day. Its June lease program for the 2007 X3 is very similar to its May program.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Welcome shagzie. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

    The first thing that I noticed about your deal is that you plan on trading in your current vehicle when you lease your new one. There's nothing wrong with trading in a car or truck when you lease your new one, but it would be in your best interest to have the dealer that you are working with cut you a check for your trade rather than using the proceeds from it as a down payment for your lease. I always advise consumers against making large down payments on leases. Those who do, risk losing all or part of the money that they put down if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered.

    Also, the money factor and acquisition fee that you were quoted for this truck are too high. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2007 X3 is only .00215 with the payment of a security deposit at lease signing and its base acquisition fee is only $625. It appears as though the dealer that you are working with is marking both of these items up to add additional, hidden profit to your deal. Try to find a dealer that will use the base factor and acquisition fee.

    Now let's take a look at this truck's selling price. The X3 that you described probably has a spread of around $3,800 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. You are being given a discount of $1,700 on it, which is still around $2,000 over invoice. There's still some room to play with here. It wouldn't hurt to comparison shop with a few other dealers to see if you can beat this deal. Also, make sure to stop by the following discussion to see how much other community members have paid for similar trucks lately: "BMW X3: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, jojo718. I've never used credit card points on a BMW before, but doing so shouldn't be difficult. Negotiate the best possible deal that you can on the vehicle that you want and then tell the dealer that you would like to have your earned points subtracted from that.

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  • kp22kp22 Member Posts: 20
    Can someone please provide me with the most recent money factor and residual value on a 36 month lease with 10,000 miles?

    Also, it would be very helpful if someone can provide me with a link to a listing of money factors and residuals on the BMW or BMW Financial Services website. I have seen older schedules on other posts but cannot find the information on the BMW websites themselves.

    I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
    Thanks!
    - kp22
  • jojo718jojo718 Member Posts: 7
    I will. There is still a few months until I actually get my new X3. I will post the results once I have started and finalized the process. For those who read this post, you can earn points on the BMW Visa and use them towards your next lease. I will let everyone know how that plays out once I have done so. If anyone has had this experience already, please share with me......

    BTW
    Does anyone know if they are going to drop the 300hp 3 series engine in the X3 and when?????
  • minoteminote Member Posts: 13
    Hi Car Man,
    Looking at an X3:
    Terms 15/36 BMWFS
    MSRP 42950 (prem pack, xenon adaptive headlight, privacy glass, metallic color)
    Buy price (looking for around) 40000 (is it possible?)
    Cap Cost: 43000 (includes all CA tax, tags and acq fees)

    What would be good lease payment with $0 down?
    Are my numbers above looking good? I want to shoot for up to $500 incl tax for mthly pmt.
    I would like to deal with dealers thru emails so any opinions you could give me about my numbers are so very appreciated.
    Thanks for your opinion in advance, Car Man! :)
  • ipip316ipip316 Member Posts: 8
    Hi All and Carman:
    Went to dealership today and got a quote for X3 with Auto, Xexon light, Nav Package and Matellic Paint.

    MSPR: $41850.00
    Cap Cost: $39600.00
    Adjusted Cap cost: $40612.91
    Res. value: 77%
    lease factor: 0.00215
    24 month 12k/ year
    NYC 8.375%

    total sales tax: $1012.91
    DMV Doc: $452.50
    ACQ Fee: $625.00 (donno what is it)
    Security deposit: $550.00
    amount due at signing: $2133.62
    monthly payment: $506.12

    Any idea do i get a good deal? please advise.

    Thank you
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    Joechicago -

    can you please post the details of the X3 you bought last week? Did you buy or lease?
  • timmbojtimmboj Member Posts: 123
    Does anyone know how I can figure out how the taxes get paid on an out-of-state lease? Like, if I'm in Tennessee, and I lease a vehicle in Texas and bring it back to Tennessee, how does it all work out? Does the dealer handle this? Or do I need to ask Tennessee government officials what the procedures are? Seems like it would be an easy thing for dealerships to handle, but I want to know so there aren't any surprises.

    Thanks!
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    With neighboring states, the dealder is typically knowledgeable and can handle it all. Otherwise, I think its handled (paid) when you go to get your plates.

    I am curious why you'd go to Texas to leave a vehicle if you live in Tennessee.
  • helaynahelayna Member Posts: 2
    My dealer has offered the following deal:
    2007 BMW X3 in Alpine White with Sand Beige Leatherette and equipped with auto transmission, heated steering wheel and front seats as well as privacy glass. MSRP is $40025. The current "price" is $39325. Money factor appears to be .00255, term is 36 months with 10K miles. They have me paying $5300 at signing ($450 is security dep.). Taxes are listed as $3683 - our sales tax rate here is 7.55%. The monthly lease payment is $448.23. I want to pay nothing down and negotiate to a net capital price of $38000 or pay $1000 down for a net capital price of $37000. I cannot understand why the need for the $5300 down - it doesn't add up. What are they doing?????
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Are you paying all of the sales tax for the lease up front?

    If so the sales tax plus security deposit plus the first payment nearly equals 5,300 dollars. Throw in a few hundred dollars for registration, plates and doc fee and you have 5,300 dollars.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    This looks like a bad deal.. even if you are paying all of the tax upfront..

    Also, that tax amount is huge... do you live in Illinois or Texas?

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  • kp22kp22 Member Posts: 20
    Your sales tax also seems way too high.
  • sgdgolfsgdgolf Member Posts: 3
    I just got an X3. MSRP $43,490, Sale Pice $40,950 plus $625 Acq. fee and $600 security deposit for the lease. 24 mos. 15k per year, 24 payment of $584 including tax. MF was .00215 with 75% rv. I think the sale price should come to about $1,000 over invoice. Dealer never mentioned Maco or training fee, so it must have been included in the sale price already. In our area (SoCal) dealers have tons of X3s on the lot and it is towards the end of the model year, so they need to be more flexible.
  • newq7newq7 Member Posts: 21
    Hi:

    Our factory ordered X3 has arrived at the dealership. We were approved for a lease at time of order. I've been told that if lease rates drop by closing, we will be entitled to the lower rate. When will rates be available(or what are) the rates for July 2007?

    Many thanks.
  • duanemanduaneman Member Posts: 8
    BMWFS was offering a reduced rate for returning BMWFS customers for June. I was quoted .0025 at signing in May when I ordered, and the money factor dropped to .0019 in June when I received delivery. They indeed did honor the reduced MF rate. The base rate is .0015, however dealers are allowed to mark it up another .0004. This rate is without a security deposit and saved me over $40 per month on my paymment. Ask your Customer Advisor about it and see if they will be offering this in July as well.
  • pmeswanipmeswani Member Posts: 13
    kyfdx -

    do you have a sense of what the new numbers are for the X3?

    I'm interested in an Automatic with Premium and Climate package, and only basic inception fees at signing.

    Term: 24/36 months
    Miles: 10k/year
    MF: ?
    Residual: ?

    Thanks very much.
  • newq7newq7 Member Posts: 21
    Duaneman:

    I'm not a returning BMW customer... do you know what the July money factor is for first time BMW purchasers?

    Thanks.

    Q
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    .00215 is the base rate... .0015 for current BMWFS customers.

    Residuals are 78% and 68%..

    All of this is unchanged from last month.

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  • aephemeaepheme Member Posts: 48
    BMW's factors are easy -- they're updated every month at bimmerfest.com:

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216031

    For the X3 3.0si 4WD:

    24mos,10k: Residual of 78%, MF=.00215
    36mos,10k: Residual of 68%, MF=.00215

    For 12k, subtract 1% from the Residual.
    For 15k, subtract 3% from the Resiudal.

    The Residual for 24mos is excellent! MF, not so much. Apparently, there's a discount on the MF if you're a current BMW customer.

    I'm in the market for a small SUV, and the residual here makes me want to go check out an X3 this weekend...
  • pmeswanipmeswani Member Posts: 13
    Thanks so much. I plan to go to some dealers in NJ today to compare. Will keep this board posted.
  • pmeswanipmeswani Member Posts: 13
    Just put a deposit down on an X3.

    2007 X3
    MSRP: 42,325 includes Auto, Premium, Heated Seats and Steering Wheel, privacy glass
    Selling Price: $40,105
    Residual: 78%
    MF: .00215
    Term: 24 month/12k per year
    Payment: $496 (includes tax)
    ~$2100 basic inception fees due at signing (first month, $500 SD, reg fees, and acquisition)

    Sound like a decent deal? By my calculations, I'm about 12 over, but I still think it's not too bad.
  • Andyboy1974Andyboy1974 Member Posts: 15
    I was thrown off by the Acquisition Fee of $625. Dealer told me that this figure was non-negotiable from BMW Financial Services and couldn't be removed. Can anyone shed further light on this? I can still back out of this deal.

    36 months/15K mi/yr
    2007 X3 3.0si SAV
    205 Steptronic auto trans.
    A35 Monaco Blue Metallic Paint
    LUAD Gray Nevada Leather
    ZPP Premium Pkg
    761 Privacy Glass

    MSRP + Dest. Chg. = 42150
    Invoice + Dest. Chg. = 38805
    My Price + Dest. Chg. = 39599 ($794 over invoice)
    Acq. Fee = 625
    Adj. Cap Cost = 40224

    Residual = 65%
    Base Money Factor =.00215
    Discounted MF* =.00166

    *Discount MF applies when you make 7 add'l security deposits, which you get back at the end of lease term, for a total of 8 security deposits.

    Sec. Dep. ($500 x 8) = 4000
    FL Title/License Fees = 369

    Base Monthly Payment = 468
    with FL 6% tax = $499/month total payment

    36 months @ 15K miles/year
  • aephemeaepheme Member Posts: 48
    boestch1,

    The acquisition fee is standard -- the money goes to BMWFS, I believe. $625 is the base fee, but dealerships are allowed to mark it up to $825. You've got it as low as it can get.

    Also... I was curious about the discounted MF with security deposits (and if it's really a good deal or not). For those who are interested, I went ahead and calculated the NPV of the two lease options:

    With Security Deposits:
    1. Monthly Payment: $499
    2. NPV (r=0%): $18,333
    3. NPV (r=12%): $16,611
    4. NPV (r=20%): $15,592

    Without Security Deposits:
    1. Monthly Payment: $534
    2. NPV (r=0%): $19,603
    3. NPV (r=12%): $16,616
    4. NPV (r=20%): $14,985

    What do those numbers mean? It means... if your money would otherwise sit in a 0% checking account, you're saving almost $1200. If it would be making 12% in the S&P500, you're breaking even. If it would be making 20% in the Russell2000, you'd be losing about $600.

    Interesting. Probably a solid deal. Essentially, a zero-risk return of 12%. That's a good deal.
  • Andyboy1974Andyboy1974 Member Posts: 15
    Thanks, aepheme! Interesting analysis. I never thought of it that way. My hunch is that the S&P won't return 12% per year over the next 36 months, so making 7 extra security deposit payments seems to be the way to go. I understand if you are a returning BMW customer, you may qualify for an even lower discounted MF of .00151, based on a base MF currently offered at .00251.

    I also learned that finance guys use a "magic number" to determine the interest rate of the MF. Basically, take the MF number and multiply by 2400. So the base MF of .00251 x 2400 = 6.02%. The discounted MF for 7 extra sec deps is .00161 x 2400 = 3.8%. On .00151 it's 3.62%.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Also.. that zero-risk 12% return is "after-tax", as it directly reduces your lease payment... If you make 12% in a taxable account, your return is likely closer to 8%..

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi kp22. Here is BMW's latest lease program for the truck that you are interested in. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2007 BMW X3 with 10,000 miles per year are .00215 and 68%, respectively.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi minote. The dealer invoice price of the X3 that you described is $39,535. A selling price of $500 over dealer invoice, or slightly over the $40,000 that you mentioned would be a very good deal. Shoot for that and see what happens. You should be able to get a good idea of how much you will have to pay for this truck right now by visiting the following discussion: "BMW X3: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

    Once you arrive at a selling price that you are comfortable with, make sure that the dealer that gives it to you calculates your X3's monthly payment using BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value of .00215 and 65% (for a 36 month lease with 15,000 miles per year). Using this lease program, I estimate that the zero down, pre-tax monthly payment for a lease of the truck that you described at $500 over invoice would be around $483.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ipip316. The money factor and residual value that you were quoted for the X3 that you are interested in are right in line with BMW Financial Services' current program for it. This is a good thing because it means that the dealer that you are working with is not trying to mark-up BMW FS' buy rate like BMW dealers are notorious for doing.

    Now let's take a look at the selling price that you were quoted. The dealer invoice price for the model that you described is $38,535. That puts the selling price that you were quoted at just over $1,000 over invoice. That isn't a bad price for a lease of this model using the buy rate lease money factor. Still, it wouldn't hurt to stop by the following discussion to see how much other community members have paid for similar models lately: "BMW X3: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

    In your post you mentioned that you didn't know what the acquisition fee is. All banks that lease vehicles charge an acquisition fee and individual dealers do not have the authority to waive it. BMW Financial Services' base acquisition for is $625, which is right in line with the fee that you were quoted. This means that the dealer you are working with is being very straightforward with you because BMW dealers are notorious for marking up acquisition fees by a couple hundred dollars.

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    So my search to replace my wife's 2000 Mazda Protege ES (88,000 miles) began about a few weeks ago. We've outgrown the car as we now have a happy, healthy, & beautiful, 9 1/2 month old baby boy. She hit a pothole (must have been a landmine) and blew out 2 tires (OK, it happens).

    The next day she goes to go to work and the car is dead (OK, maybe they left the door open while they were working on the car at the tire place). AAA comes and gives her a jump. The AAA guy says the battery is deader than dead and she shouldn't turn on the AC or radio, just go and get that battery replaced right now (Its possible, the battery is 4 years old.

    She goes to sears to get an new battery and they guy tells her that the Alternartor isn't charging and the car is running on pure battery power.

    She goes from sears to a trusted mechanic who tells her the alternator is shot. Not a problem as she has an extended warranty that covered the car until 7/13/07. A new alternator set me back only $50 (hey, at 7 years the alternator should be replaced.

    A few weeks go by without a hiccup and my wife calls me at work and tells me her car isn't feeling good. I drive it and it keeps hesitating on the highway between 3rd & 4th gears.

    We bring it to the Mazda dealer. He tells me they can't road test the car to see if there is a transmission problem because the timing belt tensioner is loose and must be replaced. The extended warranty company won't pay for a new tensioner unless a compression test is performed. They want me to pay for everything in advance and then IF the car passes a compression test, they'll pay for the tensioner (well over $500).

    That's when I decide they are going to drag their feet and fight me until the warranty is up so I decide to throw the towel in and get my wife a new car.

    First I looked at an '07 Accord EX-L V6. I liked it, she didn't. She said there are too many of them on the road and too many old people in our condo complex drive and Accord. The 3 year lease on an '07 (with a new body style coming out soon) were almost too good to pass up.

    Then we checked out the CR-V EX-L NAVI. She liked it because of the amount of interior space, I didn't because I felt like I was sitting on a toilet and with the AC running there was a distinct lack of power.

    I saw an ad on the VW website for a cheap lease on a Passat Wagon. OK, this thing really isn't bad looking and leasing a VW means I don't have to worry about it. We emailed a close dealer who gave me all pricing in her reply including residual, sticker price, selling price, & .00006 money factor (yes that is 4 ZEROS). It was Saturday and she told me the rates were changing on Monday. Well, the lease rate changed from .42% to 2.4% which is still cheap but made the payment jump $44 per month due to VWs crummy residual value. Suddenly the Passat Wagon that we drove and both loved was too expensive (at $400 per month it was a decent deal, at $445 it was expensive). We leave the dealership almost heartbroken.

    While all this is going on, I'm negotiating a lease for my Dad on a new '07 X5 3.0si as the lease on his current '04 X5 3.0iA is set to expire. I made a great deal for $1000 over invoice with base mf and acq rates on a 30 month, 50,000 mile lease.

    After he faxed all the paperwork in, the salesman at Wide World of Cars in Spring Vally, NY calls my Dad at work to get a deposit so he can go ahead an order a truck for him.

    My Dad tells the guy: "Listen, I'm buying this X5 from you for August delivery and the lease is up on my wife's '05 530i at the end of December. My son is interested in an X3, call him here at work tomorrow and make him an offer he can't refuse.

    So we found a lightly optioned (Metallic Paint, Heated Seats, Privacy Glass, & 18" wheels) 2007 X3 3.0si. $471 per month with a $0 Cap Cost reduction including tax for a 36 month/15,000 mile per year lease with only first month, security, DMV fee, & bank fee due at signing.

    Sorry for the long post, but after being a HUGE BMW fan for many years, I'm finally going to have one to call my own (as long as my wife isn't using it)!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • aephemeaepheme Member Posts: 48
    nyccarguy,

    What a saga! Glad your wife is finally in a good car. :) How much over invoice did you pay for the X3 (and you Dad pay for the X5)?

    Thanks!
  • kbetkbet Member Posts: 1
    I am probably going to lease an x3 on Monday, and I need to know what type of payments to expect to pay with 0 down and a 36 mo. lease in Houston, TX. This is my first lease. Please offer any info. you can.
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