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2012 Subaru Impreza

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Comments

  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    I think your MPG is better than some others posted here, but it's still quite low than I expected.

    I have 2011 Outback CVT 2.5 with 8500 miles and my life time MPG is "30" by trip computer (didn't reset from day 1) and it's "29" alculated by hands. I bought the car last Oct in San Diego and my driving patten is 24 miles daily commute with 40/60 local/highway; the local part has many traffic lights. My other drivings involve longer trips on the weekends with little traffic. I also have gone about 2000 miles long trips to Vegas/Sedona/etc..

    I'm kind of trying quite hard to get better MPG. On the highway normally I drive only 60 and I would trun off the engine if there is a long wait in traffic lights. Also I increased PSI to 38.

    Based on the number on my Outback, I was hoping Impreza can get the similar MPG as my 2011 Corolla, which has life time MPG 36.2 by trip computer, and about 34 calculated by hands. My Corollar has 15000 miles.

    If someone can manage combined MPG to 33-34 after break-in, I will replace my Corolla with Impreza.
  • techdudetechdude Member Posts: 87
    Just out of curiosity, i contacted a local dealer and they offered the same plan for $100 cheaper.
  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    Do you mind to share how you pay for the Limited hatchback?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,789
    David,

    That mileage on your Outback, for an average, is quite good. My lifetime on a '10 Forester is 23.4, which is still better than the EPA combined number (22) despite living in the frigid north (which kills mileage in the winter) and 1,000+ miles of towing each year.

    Keep in mind that the trip meters record only 10,000 miles before they reset to zero and lose the "lifetime" information. I was using my Trip B meter for this same purpose and happened to be watching it as it rolled to 10K... *poof!* everything was gone. :(

    Replacing a car based on fuel economy alone is rarely a cost-effective reason to buy a new vehicle. If one is already in the market for a new vehicle, then fuel economy is certainly a relevant factor to consider. That said, I think a more realistic "combined" mileage for the Impreza is 31-32 in terms of "well, he got that, so I should be able to get it too." Otherwise, you're likely just setting yourself up for disappointment as a result of unrealistic expectations.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • wimchattawimchatta Member Posts: 28
    After test driving the Impreza 4 times, the Ford Focus 2 times and the Mazda 3 and the BMW 328i wagon once each, and innumerable web searches and review perusals... Impreza pips the Focus on better visibility for driver. Thanks also to Kanjii and Pao and Camdoll's posts in this forum, which helped answer some questions in my mind regarding the Impreza.

    Have ordered an Impreza Premium Hatchback w/ Auto, Nav, Moonroof (option code 29), alloy wheel package plus upgraded speakers, fog lamp, remote starter and a couple of smaller options. Satin white pearl, ivory cloth trim.
    ~$23800 + fees etc.

    Almost peaceful, low-pressure experience at Livermore Subaru in CA, didn't have to negotiate, the price was what I wanted to pay (would have gone elsewhere to shop around if had been higher), so I gladly focused then on fine-tuning the options. Will add an aftermarket rear backup sensor array (ultrasonic) when it comes in. Good luck all, you cannot go wrong with the Impreza, I think.
  • onemodogonemodog Member Posts: 26
    So yesterday I reset the trip computer between the highway and city portion of my commute.
    On the highway I avg. 32.3 mpg and the commute, if I remember correctly was about 33 miles (I left the paper in my car this morning).
    The city portion avg. 19.2 mpg and I think was 18.4 miles.
    I did not reset for the last 12 miles of my commute which would have been about 11 miles highway, 1 mile city.

    The city portion is killing my avg. I make a lot of very short runs as I play Dad Taxi and drive my kid around. Throw in that Im driving in hilly San Francisco and voila, crappy mileage!
    I do feel better that the highway portion is in the 30s though!

    Another brightside.... the Impreza fits in parking spots my old Grand Prix could only dream of.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What's your record?

    In fact let's ask that openly - what's the best mileage you've seen so far?

    Winner gets a virtual glass of champagne. :shades:
  • flopkaflopka Member Posts: 22
    Had the car for 3 weeks, have 250+ miles on it, city driving only, my best MPG was today - 18.6. Still slowly rising.
  • onemodogonemodog Member Posts: 26
    My best combined mileage came on my first tank of gas...and I mean the tank that I got with the car....28.2 mpg.
    Since then, I have had a low of 24.9 mpg avg
    and a high of 26.8 mpg

    City driving is killing me.
    I can not wait for my roadtrip to Monterey the first week of April. Approx 1.5 hours of highway driving.
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    The 36mpg rating is s strong draw for impreza.
    However, I'm somewhat disappointed by the mpg reported by owners.
    seems like most people are getting less than 30mpg.

    There is a website called fuelly.com that has a lot more mpg data from owners and can see 28 seems to be average.

    I was deciding between Mazda 3 and Impreza, I see on fuelly.com that Mazda is clearly getting 30+ mpg in the real world. The thing stopping me from getting the Mazda 3 is the overly aggressive styling and tight back seat room.

    Currently I have the Impreza limited on order for $1000 below invoice.
    (Capital subaru in San Jose)

    I'm really hoping that I can get 30+ mpg when I get it. But I think realistically I'll only get 28mpg like everyone else.

    Those of you with CVT...I'm curious to know if 0-60 time is faster on automatic or manual mode?
    Is it possible to get better mpg by using the manual mode keep the rpm below 2500?
  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    Hi XWESX,
    Thank you for your thoughtful comment and I totally agree 31-32 is the reasonable combined MPG for Impreza with 27/36 EPA. I think my way of driving is pushing a little hard for better MPG. Still as a driver coming from Venza (had only 18 months), I'm extramely happy overall with my first Subaru-Outback. That's why I had high hope for Impreza.
  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    My wife's 2011 Corolla with 15K mailes had life time 36.2 combined MPG on the trip computer, and I think it the real world probably it's about 34MPG. The EPA for her Corolla is 26-34. Since the Impreza has EPA 27-36, I hope you can get around 32-33.

    I think CVT is very good to keep RPM low. When I drive around 60 with my Outback, the RPM is about 1500-1800.

    Do you have 4 door or HB Impreza? do you mind to share your OTD number?
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    edited March 2012
    It's only on order so I haven't paid for it yet.
    I won't know the exact OTD price until then.

    My price is $21,200+tax for limited wagon with homelink.

    The impreza cvt revs higher. From what I know it's up at 2500 @70 mph.
    It's much higher than the outback.
    That's why I was wondering if the manual mode might be able to force the rpm lower to get more mpg.
  • debbadoo2debbadoo2 Member Posts: 24
    Question regarding the paddle shifters - I know you can use them while in D mode and it will temporarily override the auto and then go back to auto on its own. But can you also switch to manual mode while driving if you do in fact suddenly decide you want to be in manual mode (rather than being stopped to switch) I hope that makes sense.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,789
    Yes you can; the switch between the two modes can be made at any time while driving.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2012
    Yup. Just move the gearshift lever to the left. That puts it in manual mode, and the gears you select via the paddles will stay in gear until either you shift, or if you get into a speed range that doesn't suit the gear selected. It can be done "on-the-fly."

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    the overly aggressive styling

    I bought a left over 2008 Miata mostly because i didn't like the 2009 smiley faces.

    AWD will cost an MPG or two. Worth it IMHO.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Currently I have the Impreza limited on order for $1000 below invoice.
    (Capital subaru in San Jose)

    How are you getting it for $1000 below invoice???? Why would a dealer PAY you to buy an in demand car?
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    got an email from SOA thanking for my order and generically saying that they wanted to update me on the status of my order. of course, there was no real update, except seemingly to let me know that i must be in your system.

    there was an order number in it, however.

    so: is there anywhere i can check on the status of my subaru on order on the web? i don't expect to have the details my dealer would have, but rather than bug him all the time, it would be nice to let my own nerosis be satisfied on my own computer/web browser ;)
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    Actually my question is not about how the manual shift for CVT works.

    But rather, has anyone done testing to see if purposely driving in manual shift mode in opportune situations result in better MPG.

    On a separate question, does the manual shift CVT give better 0-60 time than auto mode CVT?
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    How are you getting it for $1000 below invoice???? Why would a dealer PAY you to buy an in demand car?

    I didn't have to try very hard to get that price.
    From Edmunds website, I got local dealer quotes. They ranged from 300-500 below invoice for in stock cars(in SF bay area). All of them offered even better price for factor order price. Capital Subaru offered me 900 below invoice for below invoice, and then a couple email later, I got it down to 1000.

    I also check costo car purchase program. They offered 700 below invoice.

    I don't think it's that unusual to get the price I'm getting in SF area.

    I do see that from truecar.com the price that I'm getting is below dealer cost. I suspect that the true dealer cost is probably even lower what we can see on websites.

    I have heard that the 'advertisement fee' included in the dealer invoice is not longer being billed to the dealers. I don't that's true.
  • onemodogonemodog Member Posts: 26
    I think there are times when it can help but I do not think it would have a big impact. For example, there are times when I am at speed and I click the shifter to get it into 6th because the CVT is still in 5th. Lower RPMs.

    I havent tried the 0-60 comparison but I think I will.
  • thom52thom52 Member Posts: 30
    "How are you getting it for $1000 below invoice???? Why would a dealer PAY you to buy an in demand car?

    I didn't have to try very hard to get that price.
    From Edmunds website, I got local dealer quotes. They ranged from 300-500 below invoice for in stock cars(in SF bay area). All of them offered even better price for factor order price. Capital Subaru offered me 900 below invoice for below invoice, and then a couple email later, I got it down to 1000.

    I also check costo car purchase program. They offered 700 below invoice.

    I don't think it's that unusual to get the price I'm getting in SF area..."

    I am in the Seattle area, The Land of Subarus", so maybe its a LOT different in the Bay Area for Subies, but are you sure you aren't getting MSRP and Invoice mixed up? That pricing sounds about right for a decent deal below MSRP, but falls off the bottom of the chart on Edmunds Fair Market or TrueCar's bell curve.

    What IS the price they quoted you and what does that include(e.g. destination fees included?) Or is this just a VERY loaded up with options car and they have plenty of wiggle room? Heck, at that savings, it would have been almost worth the drive to the Bay Area, and visit my family while there. :shades:
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    i agree with Thom that this is a crazy good price. i got $600 below invoice which according my calculations puts them at under $100 profit on the Limited 5dr. a haven't turned up any additional incentives available, but maybe there are some hidden bulk quantities discounts and kickbacks to the dealer that we aren't aware of.

    i'm also surprised at the costco price being $700 below, because although i didn't do it myself, i had heard from others (either here, or elsewhere) that the costco price was just around invoice, so who knows? maybe it has changed.

    anyway, congrats. i feel a bit jealous that i didn't get as low a price, but i was also happy that my experience was completely painless as i wanted them to simple beat Carsdirect.com/truecar/zag which they did without much fuss or going back and forth.

    [thom: he said his only option was the homelink mirror, so that doesn't seem like it would account for the extra profit for the dealer]
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    following up my own post: i spoke with my dealer and he said unfortunately, they don't let the consumer check on the status. be he promised me checks several times a week and updates his customers if any status changes occur.

    my current ETA is "month of May" which of course fits within his 8-12 week time frame suggested. he said, it might change to shorter than that as something gets assigned or is available to fill my order, but that likely wouldn't be reflected as a change of status for at least a month :|
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    edited March 2012
    thom,

    The msrp for my car is 23416. Invoice is 22186.
    I'm getting it for 21200+tax.
    As far as I know destination charge is already included in the price.
    I have check on the internet on invoice price, it's not matching but it's with in $30 of the 22186 that the dealer quoted me.
    They did disclose that there will be additional doc fee of $55, and EFF fee of $29.

    I didn't load up with accessories. I did get the limited trim, with just homelink option as the only added accessory.
  • thom52thom52 Member Posts: 30
    "The msrp for my car is 23416. Invoice is 22186.
    I'm getting it for 21200+tax.
    As far as I know destination charge is already included in the price."

    I bow down to the Master of wheeling and dealin'! Congrats on an AMAZING deal. Yup, those numbers match a Sport hatchback CVT with homelink mirror.
    Its like they threw in, for free, the mirror, the destination charge and handed you a hundred bucks, just for being such a nice guy. :shades:

    Subarus must be much slower movers in the Bay Area. Weather certainly doesn't push people into getting one. I mention Subaru to my relatives down there and they say SubaWhat?
    If it wouldn't have broken the break-in routine getting it home, I could have (almost) flown down there, visited family, and driven one back and still come out ahead. (got mine approx $300 under invoice).

    Congrats on a Good deal!!! :surprise:
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    again, incredible deal! looks like it's right with the $55 doc fee (i've heard about dealers in the past jacking that up). what is the EFF fee? i was quoted a tire fee of $8.75 and then of course DMV license + sales tax (but no EFF)

    i do wonder what other money the dealer is seeing besides the 3% holdback, because surely they aren't losing money on your car...maybe an extra 3% is available that i/we don't know about?

    when did your order your car and did they give you a recent ETA? what color did you choose?
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    When I bought my last car 10 year ago, dealer doc was $40. I thought $55 was not out of line. I don't know what the EFF fee is either. $1000 off invoice was good enough for me. I didn't think it was worth while to fight over $29.

    I assume that they are still making money. I would agree that there's some other incentive or difference in dealer cost that general consumers don't know about.

    I ordered the car 10 days ago. They told me 6-8 weeks wait time.
    It was a ice silver metallic.
  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    I have gone Monterey from San Jose many times so I'm interested in to know how it goes...
  • davidsd1davidsd1 Member Posts: 11
    Thanks for the good post. Now at least we know how low some dealers are willing to go.

    I think I got super deal when purchasing my Outback last Oct too. MSRP was $28315 and I paid $27500 OTD in San Diego. The good part was they took my 18 months old Wenza for $500 OVER bluebook trade-in value. I ended of paying 4K net difference to switch to OB.
  • thom52thom52 Member Posts: 30
    ..."again, incredible deal! looks like it's right with the $55 doc fee (i've heard about dealers in the past jacking that up)..."

    Another plus of buying the car in CA instead if WA.
    WA puts a legal limit of $150 on that bogus "Documentation Fee", and ALL the dealers charge the max during final signing. The more "scrupulous" ones will warn you its coming. Even a local "no overhead, you do all the paperwork" dealer tacks on this "documenation" charge. Of course, as long as you know this ahead of time, you negotiate with this in mind and assume it as part of their profit.

    So even your $55 doc fee is a good deal by WA standards.
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    edited March 2012
    I recently got a ELM 327 bluetooth adaptor that allows me to connect to car through the OBD2 port and get enhanced gauges using smartphone/tablet. These adapters are dirt cheap, you can get one from Amazon or eBay for less than $20.

    For those of you that hate the dumb temperature 'gauge' on the impreza, you can read out exact temperature this way.

    I'm using Android app called Torque to do this.

    There's lots of other data that you can display (O2 sensor, 0-60 time, mpg graph, turbo boost, hp...).

    If you already have a smartphone/tablet, you can get lots of virtual gauges for $20. In addition, you can read any error codes from you car.
    So if you ever get that mysterious "check engine" light, you'll know exactly what's wrong with your car without having to take your car to the mechanic!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2012
    They should add a 2-way web cam on the chassis so you could talk to the people building it.

    That way you could chime in, "Hey, you missed a spot" when they're buffing it in the final fit/finish area. LOL

    Of course you'd have to say it in Japanese. :D
  • larry1135larry1135 Member Posts: 43
    We ordered our Impreza last night we got the...

    4 door limited sedan
    popular package #2 w/homelink auto dim mirror, rear bumper aplique, cargo tray, all weather floor mats plus a center tray.

    Also, got the remote start.

    Price out the door is $23305.25 should take 6 to 8 weeks for arrival.
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    me too: that was always the benchmark for my other cars. nice mix of faster driving on 101 and more leisurely driving on 156 and 1 made for typically some of the best mileage i've gotten. (i used to get 40+ mpg regularly in my 2000 honda civic for this trip which was originally rated 30/35 but "downgraded" to something like 27/32 after the new EPA standard was established a few years ago)
  • dfong87dfong87 Member Posts: 171
    well, so that means you are around one week ahead of me. it'll be interesting to see if the color choices (dark gray for us) and my lack of options make a difference in delivery time.
  • lauradventurelauradventure Member Posts: 1
    Hi,
    I had the same problem only at 1400 miles and I was just contacted by my Subaru Dealer saying I was only one of 3 cars in the entire US that this happened to during break in so they want to give me a new engine block and research the one that is currently in my car to see why this happened. If you haven't been contacted yet I might call your local dealer to see whats going on. I have a 2012 subaru impreza premium MT.
  • hcalcathcalcat Member Posts: 30
    I just checked with Costco and they said the arrangement with their dealers is to sell at invoice. Not the best deal apparently. I am in Southern Cali. I was interested because the DGM Sport Limited that I ordered end of January is due here in April.

    As a side note, Costco is offering a $500 cash card for Subaru's purchased between March 15th and June 15th thru their program.
  • hempy7777hempy7777 Member Posts: 3
    edited March 2012
    I ordered a Sport Limited with moon roof and nav and popular package in Silver during the first part of February and have had no info other than it is due sometime in April. What have others experienced as far as order wait times, I think the guy who took me on the test drive said 6-8 weeks and the lady who actually placed the order, the internet broker, might have said 6-8 or 8-12 weeks. Just curious about others experiences, I got an awesome deal so I can't complain but I really need the car soon, my truck has been acting up, need a new fuel pump, and hoping to get the new car so I don't have to replace it.
    Thanks
    H
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    Depending on the age and shape of your truck, either just fix it... or look into renting a car for a few weeks.

    That can be quite cheap in some areas. The trick is to get the information before the truck conks out.

    Good luck -Mathias
  • ericspyderericspyder Member Posts: 33
    Bob,

    Congratulation, that's a best deal i ever heard. i want to buy the same model like your, but I'd like to have question about Homelink option, is that mean you buying the popular package #1 (Auto-dimming mirror with compass and Homelink; Rear bumper applique; Set of four all-weather floor mats)?If that so, I will going to talk to Capital Subaru soon. Thank you.

    Eric
  • bobdole888bobdole888 Member Posts: 38
    Eric,

    I just got the homelink mirror option. It's not the #1 package.
  • cgalnycgalny Member Posts: 8
    edited March 2012
    I've been seeing some very low MPG numbers posted here for the Impreza, so I thought I'd post my experience.

    I have the Impreza Premium with the CVT (and a bunch of other options), and all off my driving is what most people would consider city. The computer says my average speed is 24-25 mph. All of my driving is on suburban roads with speed limits of 35 to 45 mph, with no highway driving, and frequent short trips, stops and turns. My 2012 Impreza has about 1500 miles on it and I have been averaging approximately 29 mpg, but that's without jackrabbit starts and sudden stops, and using the cruise whenever possible, even in fairly heavy traffic. I estimate that if I drove without regard to mpg, I'd get about 27 mpg in my 'city' driving. That means driving with a heavy foot and not worrying about mileage. I'm sure the car will get over 32 mpg, and perhaps closer to the full EPA rated 36mpg on straight highway driving, meaning setting the cruise to a speed somewhere between 55-65mph and leaving it there for at least a half hour. At least the way I drive.

    I'm frankly surprised to read that some people are getting only 14-15mpg in the city. I don't see how that's possible, unless their driving consists entirely of driving in the middle of NYC during rush hour. Even then, I don't know... If I were getting 14-15mpg on my Impreza I would be VERY bitter and would voice my displeasure to my dealer and Subaru in a very serious way. I would not tolerate it. The dealer I bought my Impreza from offers a money back guarantee. If you don't like the new car you buy from them, they will take it back and refund your money within a certain number of days (can't recall how many). I would certainly take advantage of that if my Impreza was getting only 14-15 mpg in the city.

    And oh yes, I have owned and driven MANY cars since I started driving over 30 years ago and I love the 2012 Impreza. It's perhaps the best new car value I have ever bought. Its combination of low price, AWD, comfort, cargo room, and mpg are, in my opinion, second to none. I just hope it does not suffer from any problems down the road due to the fact that it represents a major redesign. I hope they got the bugs out before production began.
  • flopkaflopka Member Posts: 22
    I'm not sure a 35-45 mph driving speed is really "city" driving, though. I'm lucky if I have stretches where I get up to 40mph for a few seconds. There have been times when my average speed is 11-12 mph for a commuting trip. Sounds like you're not dealing with too many stop lights or heavy stop-and-crawl rush hour traffic? You didn't mention how long it took you to reach 29 mpg. (Supposedly it takes a while to ramp up to the "full" mpg)

    I can report that my mpg continues to creep upward: I made 18.9 yesterday and I expect this to get better as I drive the car more. The car has ~275 miles on it, and it has unfortunately only been driven in fitful traffic (one reason why I'm anxious to get it out on the open road during the break-in period).

    In any case, I might make a good test subject for city MPG because that's virtually all I have had time to do these days - a 25 minute commute every day back and forth.
  • cgalnycgalny Member Posts: 8
    edited March 2012
    >>>
    Sounds like you're not dealing with too many stop lights or heavy stop-and-crawl rush hour traffic? You didn't mention how long it took you to reach 29 mpg.
    >>>

    I'm dealing with MANY stop lights and stop signs and am constantly stopping and turning and accelerating/decelerating. I do have a light foot, however. I occasionally drive during rush hour traffic, but not very frequently. Regarding an improvement in mpg, I can't honestly say I've noticed much of an improvement, if any at all. If memory serves, the very first tank I measured returned my highest mpg...over 30mpg with only a tiny bit on the highway. Nevertheless, I expect to see an overall longer term improvement in mpg once the weather warms up and the car breaks in.

    I still feel that anyone averaging less than 15mpg in "city" driving has reason to complain. Unless, once again, this represents the absolute worst case scenario such as driving up and down Broadway in NYC during rush hour, all day long.

    A rather interesting phenomenon that I've noticed with the Impreza CVT is the "intelligence" of the cruise control system. Driving other cars I've noticed that based upon the instant mpg displayed by their computers, I can usually duplicate the mpg driving without cruise compared with turning on the cruise. I cannot do this with the Impreza. I've tried many times to duplicate the computer displayed instant mpg using my foot vs the cruise. The cruise always wins. And since I use the cruise as much as possible (even in traffic), this probably improves my overall mpg.
  • larry1135larry1135 Member Posts: 43
    edited March 2012
    I think anything below 22mpg for city would be plenty to complain about or even sue over. Since the new epa standards even 22 for city would be bull when 27 is on the sticker. I don't expect it to be spot on but it should not be a huge difference either.

    flopke - do you have a manual transmission?
  • thom52thom52 Member Posts: 30
    ..."And since I use the cruise as much as possible (even in traffic), this probably improves my overall mpg. ..."

    This statement intrigues me. I have always thought of cruise control as something to be used on freewheeling freeway driving. (non-existent in our area). What is your technique for using cruise control in heavy stop-go City traffic? Maybe that would help.

    I really think they need to rename the EPA "City" number to "Easier Suburban" driving. That might help set expectations better. :confuse:
  • larry1135larry1135 Member Posts: 43
    I would not consider city drving to be "heavy stop-go". I would consider "heavy stop-go City traffic" to be rush hour traffic which does not last all day in the city.
  • thom52thom52 Member Posts: 30
    "I would not consider city drving to be "heavy stop-go". I would consider "heavy stop-go City traffic" to be rush hour traffic which does not last all day in the city."

    Maybe not in YOUR city.

    AHA, maybe the crux of the matter. :)

    Seattle area HEAVY traffic is pretty much 24/7, with maybe a few tiny windows, on a good day, between maybe 10:30am-11am, and MAYBE between 2-3 am on some nights..... in good weather. "light" traffic is getting to go the speed limit on the freeway with about a half car length between you and the car in front and behind you, brake lights flickering in front, which just doesn't seem conducive to casual use of cruise control. And if you try to "just relax" and leave that gap open more in front of you, it WILL fill up with other cars jumping in front of you, still making you drive with a foot ready to jump on the brake.
    Light traffic is NOT a draw for living in the greater Seattle area.... :cry:

    and most towns in this area set the stoplights in town to catch you at EVERY light, instead of setting them for keeping you moving if you do the limit. Seems counter to saving gas, but I assume is better for raising revenue.
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