2012 - 2013 Toyota Avalon

nvbanker · February 2013

I think of the sun shade as just something else to break.

You've missed the whole point. Toyotas DON'T BREAK! Use it with confidence.

nvbanker · February 2013

I've driven trucks with better rides. I will be getting another car in a year (or sooner)....maybe the new model Acura RLX

The Honda/Acuras ride much "sportier" and are considerably noisier. I'm not sure where to send you - the "Boulevard Ride" is vanishing rapidly. I liked it too.

nvbanker · February 2013

I had an early production 09 Genesis sedan V6 and when I bought it I thought I could live with the sporty ride. After I had it a while I realized that IMO it just frankly rode like crap.

AMEN AMEN AMEN! ME TOO!!! I have found Hyundai misses this boat a lot.

ncee · March 2013

I for one, think they could have made the 2013 the same size as the 2012 (exterior / interior), same style / design, same cool features (albeit some are not new to other manufactures), and had a:

- Base Model
- Sporty Model
- Old farts Model

And in doing so, they would have achieved the same sales numbers (actually, likely would have been better, heck I'd still own mine).

Again, they make a:

- Base Model Camry
- Sporty Model (with Sports Suspension & Paddle Shifters)
- Deluxe Model

These use to come with a 4cyl or 6cyl option and they could do that with the Avalon. Ok so a 4cyl wouldn't work to good, but a 3.0 and a 3.5 or 3.6 or some other size could be achieved at a reasonable cost.

Sure seems like a easy, cheap fix, to in-fact "Please everyone".

Skip

ncee · March 2013

Hi folks. Not sure if this is anything anyone else has come across, but my 2012 transmission seems to slip a fair amount (much more when it's cold).

When I say slip, I mean, when I give it the gas, it will rev up sometimes, and not move or move very little, while other times it will jerk around like a wild horse. The engine will rev / jump from 2,000 rpm to 4000 back and forth, back and forth. It will do this until it shifts to a higher gear and will stop doing it after 5 - 10 minutes?

On one occasion while going up a steep hill, it starting going backwards while I was giving it the gas. It caught up to itself and started jerking forward until it caught and went forward.

Anything anyone else has seen / had and if so, what was the fix?

A friend who works at another brand dealership, said it seemed like the torque convertor?

Skip

solara01 · March 2013

Oh Yes, The Audio... My first look at 2013 Avalon was in the showroom looking at the Touring model. I commented that my 2001 Solara had better sound. I also noticed that the XLE had better sound than the Touring car.

I bought the Limited model. It comes with the upgraded audio and it rocks. My only issue is that the high end treble could be better. I think why the Touring and high end in my Limited suffer is because there is more sound deadening in the interior for a quieter ride. Still, better tweeters in the limited would be an improvement.

solara01 · March 2013

Thanks Lucky You,

We can't all have that luxury of changing cars so often, but what you state is true.

I will look into the tire pressure on my new car (limited tech pack). If you go to Toyota Owners. You will find a video that shows tire pressure from the info apps selection. For some reason this did not make into the production models. I have already contacted Toyota to add it back in as a software upgrade. This is my field and should be an easy thing to do.

For curious buyers looking in, if you are considering any luxury sedan, you should give this car a test drive. You are going to get the reliability and luxury items at a fraction of the cost. I do not work for Toyota nor am I a sales person. It is just my opinion that they did a great job on this car and I would have not bought it otherwise.

Hope this helps.

allavalons · March 2013

Skip,
Check your transmission fluid level. That is the classic sign of a low fluid level. When cold it slips and as it warms up it seems to go away. Had that happen on a Honda and as soon as I added a little Trans Fluid it went away. Don't let that go on for very long or it will become a mechanical issue.

fin · March 2013

The slippage can easily be caused by lack of fluid pressure... and the reason could easily be... low fluid.. good idea as a place to start... check carefully.

nchi · March 2013

For those fols with the Touring Edition, the specs says front passenger is only 4 way power. I assume these are fore/aft, recline up/down. Question is does it have a way to raise/lower seat manually?

Thanks

nvbanker · March 2013

Skip - Allavalons & fin are exactly right about the fluid level, but WHY ISN'T THIS CAR AT THE DEALER ALREADY??? It's a 2012? Isn't it covered by the warranty??

nvbanker · March 2013

I think it goes up,down,fore,aft. Then you recline it manually.

douglas1 · March 2013

I tried really hard to get into a new Avalon Limited, but there is very limited availability of that model here in the Pacific Northwest. Test drove it 3 times and tried to find the front seats comfortable and the ride smooth, but it just wasn't working for me. This is really minor but I found the glove compartment door very cheap feeling.

Even tested the Hyundai Avera, an amazing car, but the windshield rake got to me. Were it not for that I'd buy the Azera in a heartbeat.

Gave up and decided to keep my 2011 Avalon Limited with 14,000 miles.

ncee · March 2013

A few reasons.

It has been and it didn't act up to the point they thought it was an issue (hasn't acted for them, like it likes for me).

They haven't offered a loaner while I leave my car there for a few days so they can check it out longer, and I use my car daily, hell I'm leaving for Boston right after I hit the "Post my Message" button:)

Skip

daveinva · March 2013

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while, inasmuch as I recently purchased a 2013 Avalon Touring model and experienced the same ride quality concerns previously discussed with respect to the new 2013 model. I thought I'd pass along my experience and what I have found from my research.

Let me begin by saying that I'm not coming from an earlier Avalon with the nice, soft, cushy ride. My previous cars over the years were an Acura TL 3.2, a Nissan Maxima and the Avalon's predecessor, the Toyota Cressida. There are 4 trim levels for the '13 Avalon, the XLE and XLE Premium are equipped with the standard 17" rims with P215-55R17 tires, and the XLE Touring and Limited come with the "optional" 18" rims with P225-45R18 tires. My Touring model has the Bridgestone Turenza EL400 tires. I've been riding it around for the last few weeks...love the car except for the harsh/noisy ride (harsh on the bumpier local roads, and noisy on the high speed interstate).

I didn't get much satisfaction discussing ride quality with the sales or service folks at the dealer, so I went over to a local tire/rim/suspension customization shop in town. First thing he did was check tire pressure. All 4 tires were 6-7 pounds above the recommended 33 psi. After lowering to spec, there is a marked improvement in ride, although the road noise is still present due to the tires (more on that later). I also got the dealer to let me test ride an XLE Premium model with the 17" rims. I immediately noticed that this model was equipped with Michelin Primacy MVV4 tires.

The ride with the 17" Michelins is MUCH better than the ride with the 18" Bridgestones, although the lowered pressure now in the Bridgestones has helped the bumpy ride in my Touring model a fair amount. The 17" Michelins take the bumps and expansion joints in stride, while the tighter suspension helps the control of the vehicle in general. The take-away here is that you cannot ride the Avalon with the 17" rims and expect that the ride with the "optional" 18" rims will be similar, because they are not! Also, the Michelins are much quieter than the Bridgestones at freeway speeds.

With respect to the Toyota provided OEM tires, I recommend taking a look at the reviews of the Bridgestone Turenza EL400 over on the Tirerack.com website. These are poorly rated by the majority of reviewers, and are at the opposite end of the spectrum compared with the Michelin Primacy MXV4's, yet the retail costs are not that far apart. I have not submitted my customer satisfaction survey yet to Toyota, but one question will be asked is how come there is such a disparity in the tires provided for the Avalons? Be aware, however, that Michelin does not make the Primacy MXV4 tire in the size to fit the 18" rim, but instead offers the Primacy MXM tire, which is a newer design, which offers a little more performance and a little less ride comfort than the Primacy MXV4 (but probably better than the Bridgestone). Probably 50% of the ride improvement in the Avalon with the 17" rims is due to the extra sidewall with the smaller rims, and the other 50% in the ride improvement is due to the better tire.

What I'd like to suggest to Toyota is that they adjust their marketing of the Avalon to allow customers to choose whether or not they want to upsize the wheels on the Touring and Limited models to the "optional" 18" size. Right now, if you want the bells and whistles on the Touring and Limited, you are forced to take the larger 18" wheels. There is a trade-off here between a little better look to the tire vs. a better ride. Toyota would be smart to give that choice to the customer. It also would be nice if the dealer/sales folks would educate the potential Avalon customers as to the trade-off involved. Of course, when sales are brisk there is reduced incentive to do something along these lines.

For myself, I'm going to ride my Touring model with the 18" Bridgestones (set at the correct 33 PSI) for a while and see how that goes. FYI, the custom shop guy said I could lower the PSI down an additional 2-3 pounds to soften the ride a little more, but to stay above 30 PSI, to avoid having the TPMS trigger an alert (I believe he said it triggers around 7 PSI below the normal "set" value).

I hope this info helps the other folks here on the forum!

tjc78 · March 2013

I can't believe Toyota is still using that crappy disgrace of a tire (EL 400). Don't worry about riding on them too long, on my 06 Avalon they were toast by 27K with regular rotations (35PSI). They will get noiser as they wear as well.

The 06 was a such a great riding car even with that tire, but was even better with the Goodyears I put on afterward.

almatti · March 2013

I've begun a journey to replace my 2010 Infiniti G37X coming due on the lease this summer. I have two categories for either I) a similar sized car ( Lateral selection) or upgrade to little larger car II) ( Upgrade Selection).

I) wait for the new 2014 G37X(summer of 2013); 2013 Acura TL SH_AWD; 2013 Lincoln MKZ Limited AWD; 2013 Buick LaCross AWD Limited; Nissan Maxima V-6 SL; a Hyundai or Kia ( not sure which model yet). Volvo S60 T-6 AWD(?); BMW 335 iX; even a 2013 Subaru Legacy 3.6R Limited (if it were a bit more upscale - it would very tempting {we own a 2010 Legacy 2.5i Premium which is a very good, solid commuter car].

II) 2013 Infiniti M37X; 2013 Audi A-6 3.0 Quatrro; 2013 MB E350 4Matic; Toyota 2013 Avalon; 2013 Lincoln MKS.

So I tested the Avalon the other day. My impressions are that as cited the Limited model rode harsh over local bumpy roads. Relatively smooth and quiet (I did not take it on the highway on this drive), The salesman didn't tell me that there are different handling settings. I found it to lag just a little ( 6 speed auto tranny) though not as bad as my 2010 G37X with a 7AT (check out those forums for the complaints about that Tranny). Handled pretty well, but I agree with other posters, the EL400 SUCK. they were probably filled too high IMO. The radio was so-so, a bit too Boomey for my liking. Nice looking car with a brilliant HD screen (everything is touch screen with buttons for the various selections : Radio, Navi, BT, etc. The buttons react almost too quickly (the salesman explained that there is new technology at work where the buttons react to your body heat). Many features that the M have as extras in a required technology package are included with the Avalon such as heated and cooled front seats, sliding rear shade, sideview mirrors that point down when in reverse, Blind side monitors, puddle lights, etc . And it's $20 K cheaper !!! ($60 K vs. $40K)

as I continue the evaluation process / shopping. I would give the Avalon a second look and more thorough test drive. 0% or .09% financing would serve to offer even stronger reconsideration in this category. That's not available NOW, but 4-6 months things change.

douglas1 · March 2013

I have test driven the Premium with 215/55 17" tires and the Limited with225/45 18" tires and I was not able to discern much difference between the 2 rides. Admittedly the tests were on different roads and a week apart. I also drove a Hyundai Azera which had 245/40 19" tires and it seemed to ride much smoother than either Avalon and also seemed to handle better than my 2011 Avalon Limited.

There must be other suspension geometry things that are causing the new Avalon to ride more harshly than just the tire size.

ncee · March 2013

I was told by Toyota it's the following:

- Tires
- Rims
- Shocks and the rest of the suspension. They are going for a more firm ride (maybe a bit sorry they didn't give options here)
- Tire Pressure
- Seat
- Person's size, person's weight, person's butt size / shape

to name butt a few reasons.

Not to mention, what is smooth and what is rough. Each person has a different thought on this.

Skip

jeffm5 · March 2013

There's a report in the April issue of Motortrend comparing the new Avalon Limited with a Maxima and Azera. The Avalon won top honors just ahead of the Maxima. Their main complaint with the Avy is hard seats front and back and a harsh ride, which we keep hearing on this board.

The thing that caught my eye was the price as tested figure - Just short of $43,000.00 WOW!! Now granted this was a loaded Avy with the Tech package. But, just to compare numbers, I bought a loaded 2013 Volvo S60 (FWD) with a Tech package this summer. The MSRP was over $1,000.00 less.

BTW, I had a 1998 and a 2005 Avalon, which were great cars, so I'm not a Toyota or Avy basher.

jeffm5 · March 2013

CORRECTION - The Avalon nosed out the Azera, not the Maxima in the above mentioned Motortrend report. Sorry!!

douglas1 · March 2013

In a previous test Motortrend compared the 2012 Azera, carried over to 2013 with no changes, to the 2013 Lexus ES and they gave the nod to the Azera.

I went and checked out a new Azera again yesterday. I'm more impressed each time I see it. The sticking point for me is the rake of the windshield. If that was a little less raked I'd have already bought one.

daveinva · March 2013

Hi Again,

I just managed to do another test ride in a 2013 XLE Premium with the 17" wheels fitted with the Bridgestone EL400 tires (P215-55R17). I agree that I did not find much ride difference between that Avalon and my Touring model with the 18" wheels fitted with the Bridgestone EL400 tires (P225-45R18), particularly after adjusting the tire pressure on my 18 inchers to the recommended 33 PSI. Thus, I conclude that with the Bridgestone's on both the 18" and 17" Avalon wheels, there is not much improvement in the ride based just on the wheel size.

HOWEVER, as I indicated in my earlier post, I also test drove a 2013 XLE Premium with 17" wheels fitted with Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires (P215-55R17). There is a world of difference in the ride between the Michelin's and the Bridgestones. The Michelins are much quieter at highway speeds, and they absorb the bumps and expansion joint vibrations very well. In fact, I also went out for a drive in my neighbors 2011 Avalon Limited (3rd generation suspension system) fitted with 17" wheels with the Bridgestone EL400's. I thought that the 2013 Avalon with the Michelins rode just as well as the 2011, with the bonus of improved handling due to the new suspension in the 4th generation model.

When my EL400's wear out, I'll put Michelin Primacy MXM4's on my 18" wheels. The Primacy MXV4's are not made in the 18" size, but the Primacy MXM4's (which are available in the P225-45R18 size) are pretty close in performance. Unfortunately, as I am now only driving around 6000 miles per year, even with the short life of the EL400's, I'm looking at 2-3 years before replacement (unless I decide to bite the bullet and switch them out sooner).

Be careful when looking at Michelin's though, as their tire naming scheme is a little confusing. The Primacy's are all-season touring tires, whereas the other product lines such as the Energy, Pilot and Defender are different designs with different ride characteristics, and probably will not soften the ride of the 2013 Avalon as much as the Primacy's.

douglas1 · March 2013

Thanks Dave, very insightful analysis. Apparently all Touring and Limited models come with the Bridgestone's which is unfortunate. I'd like something that rides similar to my 2011 Limited, not floaty but not as harsh as the new Avalon's I've test drove.

I wonder how the Michelin Primacy MXV4 would do on my 2011 with regard to quietness and ride.

How do you find the seats? My first and test drive impression is that they are very hard and not too comfortable.

daveinva · March 2013

Douglas,

If you replace the Bridgestone EL400's on your '11 Avalon with Michelin Primacy MXV4's you should expect to see a better ride with respect to confort and noise. Funny, my neighbor also has a 2nd Avalon, a 2004 I think, and those came with Michelin MXV4 Primacys. I looked at his '11 with the EL400's with 20k miles on them, and theose tires are almost ready for replacement, but the Michelins on the '04 are still in service.

In the past, more manufacturers provided better OEM tires. My '99 Acura TL3.2 came with Michelins on them, which lasted around 80k miles. I replaced them with another set of Michelins, and I got another 75-80K on that set as well.

If you really want to check tire reviews out, go to the Tirerack.com website and look at the 1000's of reviews of the Michelins, Bridgestones and other brands.

douglas1 · March 2013

Dave, thanks again. You are correct about the 05 Avalon, mine had Michelin's as well and were barely worn when I treaded it in, at 19,000 miles, on my 2011 Limited.

How do you find the seats, they seemed very hard and uncomfortable to me on test drives.

jjusps · March 2013

I have a 2011 Avalon with 32,700 miles a great car owned at least 8 toyota's and this Avalon puts all of them to shame. I love this car and wasn't impressed with the 2013 either it looks a lot smaller inside and the ride didn't impressed me like the 2011 Avalon I can honestly say I love this car. I did when we brought it and still do it's still a great ride.">

rotterdam6 · March 2013

I have Primacy MXV4 on my 2008 Avalon and Michelin Energy on my 2012. The Primacy are definitely quieter when moving slowly. At highway speed I don't hear a difference. I will replace the Energys with Primacy when the time comes.

luckyme1 · March 2013

My mistake. The sunshade is one step up or down. It's a nice addition, but one that we will not use much.
And, I always purchase Michelin tires when replacing non-Michelin OEM tires.
I would have preferred to have Michelin's on our Ltd's, but will be OK until the Bridgestone's wear down.
The only tires I buy are Michelin, and always see an improved ride/handling.

robnich · March 2013

>>Apparently all Touring and Limited models come with the Bridgestone's which is unfortunate.<<

No, my 2013 Avalon Limited V6 with Tech Package came fitted with Michelin MXM4 P225-45R18 tires.

Robert N.

ncee · March 2013

Well if you live where there is bright sunshine, or if you have passengers in the back and or travel much, you will use the rear sunshade:)

My passengers love it, if it's sunny, it helps them from getting to hot, and when I travel I've had occasion to have the sun set behind me, and the sunshade made the drive a lot easier, until the sun set.

Skip

rotterdam6 · March 2013

Not only rear seat pax enjoy the sunshade, but also my dogs. They love the fact that no direct sun is hitting them and with the rear A/C they are very comfortable on both short and long trips.

daveinva · March 2013

What is your opinion of the ride quality (comfort and noise) with the Michelin Primacy MXM4 P225-45R18 tires on your 2013 Limited? That is the only tire/rim option that I have not road tested, and is what I probably would upgrade to when replacing the EL400's on my Touring V6?

Oh, and I find the seats to be a little firm, but my experience is that they usually soften up later on with use.

robnich · March 2013

I think the ride is fine, and the tire noise completely acceptable. At normal highway speeds in my Avalon Limited, there is essentially no engine or wind noise, so what one hears is tire noise, but I don't consider it unusual. I have never been in any car in which one could not hear road noise.

The ride seems to be getting better all the time. This may be because I am getting accustomed to the taut, controlled ride of the new Avalon, compared to the softer, cushier ride of the Lexus ES300 I had before I bought the Avalon, or maybe things are "softening up" a bit. The handling of the Avalon is far better than that of my Lexus.

Robert N.

nvbanker · March 2013

Have had 3 Lexus LS 430/460s. The 02 430 came with some Goofy Chinese tires on it, and wore like iron, but were terribly noisy, and the noise got worse as they wore on. I finally put a set of Michelins on, and the road noise went away - ride about the same. My 05 430 came with Dunlops, and were great. When they wore out, I put more Dunlops on, but a different model. The road noise was just awful!! I couldn't understand how different they could be, both being Dunlops! Finally, took them back and got some Michelins - problem solved again. My 09 460 came with Bridgestone Turanzas on it, which were fine. Remembering my past nightmares, I had them replaced with the same tires - no problems.

My point is - I wish there were a brand you could always trust for ride, and especially road noise. Why would anyone want a tire with excess noise on a touring car? Makes absolutely no sense at all. But so far, Michelin hasn't let me down on this front.

tjc78 · March 2013

I've had nothing but luck with Michelin on all angles. Ride, handling, traction and wear have always been great.

nvbanker · March 2013

The only drawback to Michelins is, they tend to dry -rot in hot, arrid climates quickly. So if you're driving the car consistently - no issue, but if you put them on your "classic" or motorhome or something with occasional use, they will rot away long before you can wear them out. I had them on my Thunderbird, and with 5000 miles on them, had to replace them after 5 years, they simply dry rotted away. For some reason, they seem to be the most prone to do that - I don't know why, but I still prefer them.

fin · March 2013

We had a set of Michelins for 7 years on a Honda.. no problem at all with dry rot, still had good tread when we sold the car as it was seldom driven (36k in 11 years).... but we are in Atlanta, nice and humid. Arizona might be a very different story, never thought about this before as Michelin is a premium tire... interesting. Thanks.

nvbanker · March 2013

It is inexplicable - but well known in Vegas.

jlg8 · March 2013

I bought a Tourinf Avalon in Dallas a month ago and it came with Michelin MXM4s on the 18" wheels. Much quieter than the Bridgestones. I drove an ES350 with the Bridgestones and it was incredibly noisy. Michelin the only way to go. The ride is still a bit jarring on rough rodes but this is the tradeoff for handling. Yes, the seats could be better.

pete7777 · March 2013

I just now got what I believe to be a smoking hot lease deal on a new '13 Avalon XLE Premium. 15K/year, no money down, $399 per month. I'm happy with that - they beat the next lowest quote by over $40 per month.

acco20 · April 2013

Anyone who has experience with the 2013 avalon and a recent Camry, please tell us about the ride comparison. Is the avalon, although changed, still a more refined ride than the Camry. Thank you...

yota6 · April 2013

I purchased a new 2013 Avalon Limited with 18" Wheels and Bridgestone "Turanza EL400" tires.

The ride is rather harsh unless I'm on a smooth street surface.

Is there a softer riding tire for the 18" wheels?

ncee · April 2013

I'm lead to believe that the 18" tires /rims do ride hard, which is one of the reason's I traded my 2013 in on a 2012:(

Mine was also loud on smooth roads - which I noticed more on longer drives.

Rough enough and noisy enough that I traded.

Skip

tjc78 · April 2013

I'm sure that ride is largely dependent on the suspension design, springs etc. Having said that, the EL400 is a CRAP tire and I just can't believe Toyota insists on still using it.

OP, you won't have to live with the EL400s for long. Mine were shot at 27,000 miles and I suspect the lower profile 18s will wear even faster.

Put a set of Michelins and you'll notice a huge difference.

yota6 · April 2013

Thanks for sharing the information.

Any recommendations as to a specific Michelin tire that gives a softer ride?

tjc78 · April 2013

I've read the Michelin Primacy is a nice riding tire. Goto Tirerack.com and poke around the comments there. It should give you a good idea.

yota6 · April 2013

Thanks tjc78. Will do.

yota6 · April 2013

Follow-up - Tirerack.com offered considerable information that was more than helpful. You were correct - it clarified and verified considerably.
Most Appreciative
yota6

tjc78 · April 2013

No problem!

2012 - 2013 Toyota Avalon

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