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Were Old Cars more Fun Than Modern Ones?

13

Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    edited January 2012
    I'll have to say that my 1975 2002 is as much -if not more- fun to drive than my 1995 318ti or 2007 Mazdaspeed 3. The '02 is light and tossable and the handling is very good by modern standards, never mind 1975 standards. Granted, I have installed a MOMO wheel and 320iS Recaros, and just recently I installed an Alpine head unit and Pioneer speakers to replace the ancient Craig Cassette deck and Radio Shack speakers.
    In all honesty, if I didn't have to drive on salted roads I'd sell the Mazda and find a nice 1973-1974 2002 tii(like this one) and use it for a daily driver. They really are that good...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I like the earlier 2002s---they were getting a bit heavy by 1975 (former owner of same), and they needed more power---but still a very nice driver. You could even get one with AC!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I don't think I've ever seen a 2002 in that nice 1980-Malibu-ish-blue (I know that's not what they call it, but that's close to the color of my old '80 Malibu!). I think it looks really nice in that color. Whenever I think of a 2002, I always get a mental image of sort of a burnt-orange color. Which, considering it was the 70's, was probably a very popular color!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited January 2012
    Most of the vacuum shifters got swiitched over to non vacuums and for good reason.

    To grease those rear leaf springs, they had a clamp you would put on them and tighten up. Then you took a needle nose attachment on your grease gun and you would **try** to get them to accept some grease.

    Every one of those 216's and even the 235's would leak out out the rear main. I once replaced that "dog turd" rope seal on one of mine but within a month, it was dripping again.

    The babbitt bearing systems weren't as bad as some would make them out to be. Those engines did NOT like high RPMS anbd you didn't want to let them get low on oil. 55 MPH is probably a good cruising speed. I had the sweetest 1950 Deluxe and it, for some reason would cruise effortlessly at 75 MPH and I once took it up to 90 without it complaining.

    Those closed driveshafts were another story. They had seals inside of them and whent he seals would go bad if you parked them on a hill the trans fluid would drain into the differential and blow out a rear axle seal!

    They had a kit that had a politically incorrect name that you could beat into the end of the driveshaft that really would help stop this.

    I love those old Chevies and hope to own another someday.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    My '75 2002 was burgundy with tan seats, 4-speed, sunroof. They had a few weaknesses---the heater fan motors always burned out, and they were a nightmare to replace--so your choice was hours (days?) of misery to replace it, or freeze to death in winter, or pay a pro some ungodly sum to do it for you.

    Also I remember some driveshaft issues (stripping splines in transmission shaft??) and of course they liked to rust.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I was thinking about what a huge difference those ten years made.

    If you compare a 1948 Chevy Fleetline to a 1958 Impala they are light years apart in so many ways.

    Now, compare a 2002 Impala to a 2012 Impala and the differences are few.

    1955 was a piviotal point for many makes and models but I honestly think Chevrolet made a quantum leap.

    Fresh new styling!

    A new V-8 that would become legendary.

    Open driveshafts.

    12 volt systems.

    Ball joint suspension.

    Tubeless tires.

    What a difference a year made!

    Still, at the time there were probably people saying..." Why did Chevy mess up a good thing?"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wonder if those brake calipers come in a silk lined mahogany box?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    sorry the box is extra :P
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    Isell:

    I hope you find one to enjoy and show. I agree the 55's were far more advanced. I was surprised to find that my 48 Chevy, in many ways, is more archaic than the 37 Dodge I once owned.

    My neighbor recently brought home a rough early 50's Chevy, and, is starting work on it.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm not actively searching but old cars used to have a way of finding me. Not lately though.

    Maybe it's because I'm getting older and the old cars are disappearing?
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Here's mine:

    image

    Interior when purchased:

    image

    Interior today:

    image

    The heater box R&R takes @4-5 hours if the car doesn't have A/C. Now that my car has a rebuilt box and a good blower motor the heater cranks out heat like a blast furnace. Still left to do is some bodywork and new carpet(I have a set, I'm just waiting until summer to tackle the job).

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very nice. I like that color. You don't see too many. I can't tell, does it have a sunroof?

    WHERE did those seats come from?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Just acquired a 1988 Jaguar XJ6 this week. Mint condition throughout. 113,000 miles. What I tend to forget is how miserable these old Euro cars were to drive. Noisy, flexy, rattles everywhere. Lousy handling, poor steering, crummy switchgear, useless HVAC. It will go nicely in my collection, but won't be a driver that's for sure! I'm going to put NVH on the license plate. ;)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Very nice. I like that color. You don't see too many. I can't tell, does it have a sunroof?

    Thanks! The color is Atlantik Blue, and it has a sunroof.

    WHERE did those seats come from?

    The seats are 320iS items that have been rebuilt/reupholstered by Aardvarc Racing. I found this set on eBay -along with rear seat cushions upholstered to match- at a bargain price.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    A running driving 88 XJ6? Not many of those left. To be fair, those things weren't the pinnacle of quality of refinement, and you are coming out of a Lexus iso-tank.

    A few years ago the car that parked next to me in the garage here was a 93 XJ6, it always left nice puddles of both oil and coolant.
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    You never know when you're going to blunder into a deal. I had been kind of looking for a couple of years. Keep running into stuff I couldn't afford. Then, one night, the 48 showed up on Craigslist, the money wasn't bad, and it was 10 miles from my house. I emailed the owner, and, arranged to see it. Given the issues the car had, he was a bit over-priced. I explained my concerns to the owner, and, made him an offer. That evening the 48 took up new residence in my garage. I've been learning about it as I go, and, slowly I've been fixing its problems. I've gotten it now to the point where I can do a 30 mile interstate run to a show or cruise-in with some degree of confidence that I won't need a tow truck. You'll find one when you least expect it.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    You never know when you're going to blunder into a deal.

    I found my 2002 on eBay; I made what I thought was a low bid and, lo and behold, I won the auction. Then it was time for me to tell my wife, "Honey, I bought a car..." :surprise:

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...you may want to think this over. Have you ever owned one of these cars before?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " You'll find one when you least expect it"

    Yeah, I know. That's how it always happens.

    When I was in high school, a buddy was given a 1948 2 door Fleetline that came from an elderly family member. It was dead stock and low mileage.

    One Saturday morning he brought it over to my house and we removed the fender skirts that we both felt (and I still feel) ruined the looks of the car. We also removed and scrapped a windshield visor that did no good except impede vision. Those skirts had the stainless srtips on them and are probably worth a fortune today. the Fulton visors I know are sought after by some people.

    That sweet little Chevy then went to the local Muffler Shop where it received a split manifold and a nice set of "pipes".

    He also had them lower it to the ground employing the "cheap" method where the springs were heated with a torch until they melted together.

    He drove it until it threw a rod through the side of the block and sold it for 100.00.

    What a waste.....
  • epackageepackage Member Posts: 2
    Can anyone help me with an ID for these cars?
    Thanx,
    Jim

    image

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I think it's a done deal. Who knows? He may get lucky!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    It appears you have framed prints, I don't know the first car but if you look at the radiator emblem I bet you can make out a name. Whatever it is, it is from within a couple years of 1920.

    Second car is a Packard, I am pretty sure 1929.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    That's how I found my fintail. I had seen it around town, but didn't know who owned it or where it lived. One day I went to the store, and there it was in the parking lot, for sale sign in the window. The rest is history.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I hope he IS lucky. You have to keep after 'em. Quality control was pretty bad. At least he didn't buy one of the early ones, which would have been a disaster. Like anything else if you buy a well-cared-for car, you are miles ahead right there. You're playing "keep up" rather than "catch up". You'll never win playing catch-up with an XJ6.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It makes me wonder why there are even any old XJ6s in existence.

    I learned my lesson many years ago when I bought a '73 Saab 99 (?) on impulse, which didn't run, for something like $150. It cost me another $100 to have it towed to a Saab specialist, who charged me $50 to tell me it wasn't worth fixing. I never got to drive it. Had it towed to a junk yard. I think that tow cost something more than the scrap price I got, but I was glad, no thrilled, to cut my losses.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The trouble with old Jaguars is the fact they are unforgiving. If you skimp on something or defer maintenance it will take revenge like no other car can!

    Even years ago, a lot of shops simply refused to work on them and for good reason!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2012
    they caught fire for one thing. (flexible injection lines running under the manifold cracked from the heat). Shops were afraid of them. Combined with a propensity to leak fuel through the saddle tanks, well then....

    Touh car to work on. You have to drop the rear axle assembly to replace the rear brake rotors for instance.

    On the positive side, they are attractive cars, nice highway cruisers, and you can buy them dirt cheap.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, I had forgotten about the fact they caught fire. I once watched one burn to the ground while stopped in the traffic this created on the Nimitz Freeway.

    I'll bet shops were afraid of them!

    " You just worked on my Jaguar last week and it just burned up. It MUST have been caused by something you guys did"!

    And I agree. They had great looks and when in top condition were nice cars to drive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    some years ago, around year 2004 or so, someone offered me a really really clean XJ6---I mean spotless---for $2500 bucks. So I took it into my friends shop in San Rafael, who are a) friends and b) Jaguar specialists and asked them to look it over. I had noticed a gas smell and some vibration in the steering and no AC but the car looked great and ran well.

    Anyway, I got the report and he said "well, we can patch it up for you best we can and get you safe and roadworthy for about $7500".

    So yeah, needed 2 gas tanks, all new fuel lines, fuel pump, front end work, brake rotors, radiator, water pump, AC compressor, dryer and expansion valve, speedo cable, two tires, battery, windshield wiper motor.

    This didn't list the things it needed but could be left alone for the time being--which was power steering leak, shocks and power window motor. (I may have forgotten a few things).

    well somebody bought it---some lady who worked at the supermarket---yeah, that's going to turn out great for her I'm sure.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    So, what you are saying is that Jaguar was in effect totalled.

    The minimum repairs needed exceeded the value of the car.

    That was an inspection well worth paying for!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Yep, post a close up picture of the radiator on the top one.
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    At the first car show I took my 48 to, an old couple drove up to the registration tent in a late 80's Jag to enter it. Only problem was - there was a bunch of acrid smoke coming out of the Jag's rear brakes. Apparently they were dragging bad. I felt sorry for them - beautiful car sitting there in a cloud of smoke.

    Regards:
    Oldebearcat
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    I went through that after one of my Grandfathers passed away. I wanted to buy his cherry 63 Olds F85 with the 4BBl version of the 215 aluminum V8 in it. My Grandmother, instead of selling it to me, gave it to my cousin. Her husband drove it a couple of months until the water pump failed, and, then he used the car as a chicken coop on his farm.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I guess my point is that all XJ6s you see are probably effectively totaled de facto, because the repairs they need, given modern labor rates, usually exceed the values of these cars (which haven't changed much in 20 years).

    Now, that doesn't mean you can't drive them as they are--an old car can run along the road just fine even though it needs $7500 in repairs. I mean, you might not be going cross country, and you may have your scary moments every day, but you could drive them and your passengers might be none the wiser. They aren't going to inspect the car underneath for leaks, the day is too cool for AC and they can't feel your steering wheel shaking.

    It starts, it stops and it gets to your mother in law's house 9 miles away. So there you go.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's true. Not everything HAS to be fixed like a lot of shops seem to want to do.

    Still, a gas leak or a worn out front end isn't anything to ignore.

    A lot of cars on the road today are one major event away from being totalled.

    Everything is so expensive to fix these days. With labor rates over 100.00/hr, it doesn't take much to push a car over the line.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    When you drive an old car for fun, you just gotta look the other way on some things. I've even driven $100,000 restoration and the car still drives like crap. You can't apply modern standards to old vehicles--it's too frustrating and too expensive.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Sometimes, you don't even want to know. It would be amusing if I had a complete inspection of my fintail done, and learned what it technically "needs". It would be well into 5 figures no doubt. But it starts, goes, stops, doesn't break down...that's all I can ask of it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    This is exactly why I am not a big fan of restro modded cars. If I'm driving a 1955 Chevy, I am well aware that it has drum brakes and sloppy steering compared to modern cars. I'm not going to drive it in the fast lane at 75 MPH in heavy traffic. I don't "need" to convert it to disc brakes or install a modern front suspension.

    I will install modern seatbelts and I will make damm sure that the ball joints aren't ready to come apart. I will drive it as it was intended.

    If it uses a quart of oil every 700 miles, I will live with that too. Now, if it starts leaking all over my garage floor, that's a different story!

    Trying to make an old car "near perfect" will be a very frustrating and expensive proposition and when you are done it'll still fall short of most people's expectations!

    Just enjoy!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh yeah...take it to Barrier and tell them that you want an estimate to bring your Fintail back to "like new" condition!

    I think the estimate wold be staggering to say the least!

    Aren't they at 165.00/hr labor rate now?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    I couldn't do it simply for fiscal reasons. There aren't many cars where you won't burn money on a restoration. Even on "Wheeler Dealers", they only come out ahead because the labor is billed at zero. A 40K labor of love is pretty tough for me to embrace, when the car looks and runs OK as it is. And with an imperfect car, you can actually drive it without worrying about un-restoring it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited January 2012
    I wonder if they'd even touch it. Every now and then I see a W123 or W126 sitting on the back service lot, and I shake my head. There are very competent independent mechanics in the area, especially for non-current models.

    I'm sure they'd want to rebuild the engine - there's probably 10-15K. Suspension work would be 5K no doubt. Then I could blow 5K each on interior and paint. Maybe a couple more grand on bodywork. Tires and brakes maybe 2K. It would keep going on and on.

    Then again, I'd still be in for the same as a base C-class.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When I was 16 years old I bought a 1952 Chevy for 35.00. The guy who sold it to me told me that it needed an engine rebuild and a new fuel pump.

    Well, for 7.00, I bought a rebuilt fuel pump that my dad helped me install.

    The car ran just fine. Yes, it would go through a quart of oil every 500 miles or so but it didn't smoke, didn't foul the plugs and it generally ran quite well.

    Did it "need" an engine overhaul? Well, probably so and I told the guy I sold it to a year later that. I ran into him a couple of years later and he was actually commuting 40 miles a day...no overhaul and according to him, it's thirst for oil hadn't increased much.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited January 2012
    When I bought the car, it burned oil - about 2 years later a piston ring broke, which would foul the plugs in no time, and I had to get that fixed. Opened it up and had a bunch of other things done too, to the cost of maybe 4 grand. Not a fun expense as I was a college student then. But I weighed the repair vs buying another car for the same money - better use of funds.

    Now it burns a quart every 800 miles or so, heavy for a modern car but within specs according to the manual. It smokes the most when sitting in traffic and even then it's just a puff. My mechanic says don't worry - it will eventually need a valve job (I never had proper adjustments done when I was in school or just after, too busy and cheap) but it's not worth fixing yet. The car doesn't owe me anything after so many years.

    And why would I spend a fortune to restore this? It's not exactly junkyard looking yet:

    image
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm guessing the early post war Chevy's are through 57? So Isell, which one of those years would be your very favorite? I think I like the 55 or 56 best, but really the 49-52's were pretty cleanly styled cars for their time too. Personally, I never could get into the looks of the 53 or 54, I just thought that Ford was better looking inside and out those two model years.

    When I was a kid I had an uncle who was an engineer with Bell Labs and had a bunch of patents. He drove a 50 Chevy stove bolt 6 he bought new back then until he finally decided to upgrade in 63 to a new LeSabre (which he custom ordered based on engine, tranny, etc.). That Chevy never got on the used car lot because when he went to pick up the Buick, a mechanic bought it outright from him in lieu of a trade. My uncle kept that Buick until he passed away in the 1990's. He willed it to a nephew who lived out in NJ and was an old car fanatic. My uncle was very up on maintenance, but both of those cars were very long lived vehicles with little in the way of mechanical issues.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    I'd put the dividing line at 54/55 - '55 and later were much more similar to each other.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I see your point. The GM's were really modernized in 55, but weren't the changes at Ford and Chrysler more styling rather than modernized engineering in 55 and 56? I guess a lot of us look to 57 as when things really started to change, but that is probably as much styling as engineering I suppose. Of course, given lead times back then a lot of the 57's were probably actually being developed in 53 or 54!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That is a very nice looking car! I know I've seen it on the streets.

    Just don't ever lose one of those special hubcaps!
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "... weren't the changes at Ford and Chrysler more styling rather than modernized engineering in 55 and 56?"

    I believe the restyled '55 Ford was based on the '52 platform, although it had an all-new look. However, the '55 Plymouth had a new platform, and, for the first time offered a modern, new OHV V8. I think the difference between the '54 and '55 Plymouths was as dramatic as the difference between the '54 and '55 Chevys. The same was true for the other Chrysler Corp. brands.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Very favorite? Actually I like them all. I do have a soft spot for the 52's since that was my first car. I have owned several 49's 50's and 54's.

    I like the 54's too especially since they have the upgraded engines with full pressure lubrication.
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