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Comments
No reason to expect to pay more for a factory order. And, as someone already said, NO WAY you should pay MSRP! I called my salesman buddy who I bought Thelma Jane from, and he said they are selling Wranglers for $100 over invoice now, and the buyer gets any DC incentives.
I have priced my Jeep and it is basically a Sport but seems to be cheaper to add the items on the X platform, am I missing something?
I plan to eventually take it off road and will most likely want to upgrade the Rear Axle ... should I go ahead and add this to the Jeep or wait ??
Think it was Mac who answered this already, but I'll add my two cents worth.
If you think you will want to go with larger tires and a locker sometime down the road, then it would be wise to get the Dana 44 rear axle. This axle is not available on the X Model, unless you get the Rocky Mountain version, which is NICE.
For light to moderate off roading, the Dana 35 would probably hold up, but with the Dana 44, you keep your options open for some more radical wheelin' and larger tires and lockers.
A VERY important factor is the gearing of the differentials. I would AVOID the 3.07 gearing at all costs. If you ever go with larger tires, the 3.07 gearing will lug your engine down too much. You will have really lousy acceleration and will have a hard time on long hills.
Also, for off roading, you often want to go SLOW. So, your crawl speed is important in many off road situations, and the 3.07 gearing will make you have to feather the clutch in order to creep as slow as you want to. For engine braking going down extremely steep sections of trail, you will find that the 3.07 gears do not slow you down enough, and you will have to over-use the brakes.
Guess you've already said you want 3.73 gears, so I am just saying you are definitely on the mark there.
I want a manual 4.0L I6, 3.73 Axle Ratio, Ecco Tire & Wheel Group, 7 Speakers, Air Conditioning, Full Metal Doors & the Tow Hooks.
Have you considered the AAS option? It's available on the Sport and is an UNBELIEVABLE bargain! For a mere $670 you get the gorgeous Ravine wheels, gas shocks, 30" tires, and the Dana 44 rear axle with 3.73 gears!!! That is a NO BRAINER.
Thanks so much for your input.
You are welcome! Glad you have joined us here. Stick around and keep us posted on your progress in getting your Jeep. Hope you get the best Jeep for your needs at the best possible price.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. Not sure when, but I'll bet we are not more than a cpuple weeks away from the deadline to place an order for an 05 Wrangler. Production of the 06's will begin in early July, I think.
Mike:
It ain't supposed to be that way. You get the incentive that was in effect at the time of your order, or you get the incentive at the time of delivery, if it has gone up by that time. You are not supposed to be able to "lose" on incentives is what I have been told.
Can someone else comment on this, please?
Tom
Glad ya got there safely. Be careful coming home.
Yeppers, that was SOME experience I had last summer. I was topless and doorless and totally at the mercy of mother nature (and she wasn't too merciful that day).
This was just another testimony to the toughness of the Wrangler. Not a bit of permanent damage was done, even though there was standing water in the foot wells (well, on the drivers side anyway... had a hole in the floor pan on the passenger side that let the water out).
I found out later that the storm I got caught in dropped four inches of rain in an hour, or something like that. It was an unusually hard rain to say the least.
The rain was so hard that people were pulled over to the side of the road, since they couldn't see where they were going. And there I went, slowly cruising along, totally soaked. Poor old Ross Allen was not exactly a happy camper at that time.
We had a 70 mile drive home from Turkey Bay, and, needless to say, it was not exactly a pleasant trip.
Good old Thelma Jane dried out, and I never had a bit of trouble with any electrical stuff or anything. Jeeps are TOUGH!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Thanks!
If you have removed the nuts from the top and bottom hinge, and if you have slipped the limiting strap off of its hook inside the doorway, then you should be able to get the door off by slowly swinging the door open and closed, while at the same time lifting up. Use some PB Blaster to loosen things up.
If that doesn't work, then you may need to use a jack. Build some kind of STABLE platform to get the jack high enough, and put a two by four under the door to distribute the force evenly. SLOWLY jack up the door. Do this procedure slowly, using common sense, so that you don't damage something.
Doors that have never been off can be a bear.
Be careful as the door comes off not to let those exposed threads come in contact with the paint job on your Jeep. Those threads can do a real job on paint! Be prepared for a LOT of weight. Full doors are heavy.
Pull #4 fuse to keep the interior light from staying on.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Once again, welcome to all of you.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Google Jeeps?
Steve, Host
Oh, Tom. Let's face it. Yes you are. Everyone in this group is awesome, but you are a HUUUUUGE part of it and an invaluable resource. Never met anyone as Jeep enthusastic and encyclopedic as you. Keep it goin'!
-Mike
I knew it seemed fishy at the time! But it all worked out because the incentives stayed the same. Those incentives (think it was $1500 cash back or 0.9/1.9/2.9% financing) were in effect all year so I wasn't too worried. But thanks for clearing up.
Stupid stupid dealers.
If it helps those in the process, and if I'm right (which is a big qualifier) the cash back was better for me. It brought my monthly payment down, and let the dealer tell the bank they got me at a higher rate. Higher rate = kickback from the lender to the dealer. Win win for everyone.
-Mike
Oh, wonderful. That was NOT on my options list! :sick:
It's only happened three times. I posted about it once because it was happening to someone else a lot. I get my tires roatated often per the maint. schedule. Next time around I'll have them look at the trac bar.
Maybe it's road turbulence. :confuse:
-Mike
Guess I can't argue with you about my enthusiasm for Jeeps, though.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Saw an alternative to fuse pulling. A clip you put in the door frame that keeps the whatever it is deprressed so the lights don't come on. Anyone have experience with these?
Thx,
Mike
What you yall do for security with your Jeep ... Do you have an Alarm or just the Fuel Bypass??
Thanks
Laura
An alarm is only of use if you will respond it, because nobody else will.
The Sentry Key option is very effective in preventing the vehicle from being started.
Soft or hard top, it's best to never leave anything tempting in the Jeep, and to leave the glovebox and console lid open.
As far as the contents of the Jeep, there just plain IS no security for a Jeep with a soft top. It's best not to even lock one of those puppies, because that will just make someone slice your top, if he wants to see what's in the vehicle. Most soft top owners simply leave their doors unlocked and leave nothing of any value in the Jeep while they are away from it.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I get to start trying it out May 1st.
For the sake of those of us on dial up, I know there will have to be some restrictions on file size and maybe on the number of pics allowed per person per day or something along those lines.
Don't know if the software they are going to try has the file size reduction feature or not. Some places, like Photobucket.com, have a program that reduces the file size for you, so that if your pic is too big, you can still use it. I think the Photobucket maximum file size is 200KB, but you can load bigger pics, and the file size reduction feature kicks in. If a person has photo editing software on their computer, they can reduce the file size themselves before uploading.
I know Mac and others with very slow connections may not be overjoyed to hear this news, but pics sure spice things up around here. I have dial up, and I don't mind a little wait for a page to load, if I get to see some Jeep pics. My dial up is pretty good (for dial up) at 45.3 KB/sec. Some folks have to put up with a much lower connection speed than that, though.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I dunno... I guess hard enough that someone's designed, built, selling and marketing an alternative.
-Mike
Q: When placing a factory order is the incentive deal based on what's in
effect as of the order date or the delivery date?
A: Thank you for your email regarding incentives on Jeep vehicles.
We are pleased to read of your interest in Jeep. Since all
DaimlerChrysler dealerships are independently owned and operated they
have the ability to set their own prices and incentives. Generally, only
the incentives that are offered on a vehicle at the time of delivery can
be applied to the price of the vehicle. Incentives that are being
offered at the time of order usually cannot be guaranteed at the time of
delivery. For more incentive information, please contact your local Jeep
dealership.
Jeeps heritage originates with WWII, for more than 60 years of 4WD
leadership and rugged capability.
If you would like me to provide you with the contact information for a
dealer, or if you have further questions, please feel free to use the
reply link below. You may also call us on our toll-free number at
1-800-964-0600. When you call, I can connect you directly to your local
dealership, providing your call is during the dealer's hours of
operation.
Thank you again for your email.
The dealer can make any mutually agreeable deal with the customer, but he has no control over what incentives the factory will offer at any time now, or in the future.
Stick with us.
Sorry, no help for ya on your O2 sensor question.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Mike - sorry I rarely get further south than Westwood and Wilshire, so I haven't driven that section of road since I gave up my Kings season tickets at the Forum. It might be the road, but that doesn't sound very logical to me, based on what you describe.
Do you have any alterations to the suspension or steering?
I think letdolphin is of the female persuasion. She signed her last post as "Laura."
As for the auto tranny, a LOT of rock crawler folks prefer the auto to the manual. Not sure exactly why, but many do prefer the auto. I guess it's just because they don't have to fool with the clutch and can operate the Jeep more smoothly? However, unless they have really fixed it, the new four speed auto wants to stop pulling when the nose of the Jeep points skyward, like it often will in rock crawling. I think they claim to have fixed it with a revision to the design of the tranny pan, but I have not heard if that really fixed it or not.
I'm with you: I prefer the manual.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
No, nothing. It's as stock as stock gets. Service date is coming up. Hope the guys at Buerge know what I'm talking about when I mention "Death Wobble." I may just print up these chats and bring them to catch the service guys up to speed. Maybe I can grab a mechanic friend and drive that stretch of road with him.
I hope MtnGals' explanation is all that it is. Or even just tightening that trac bar.
Thx,
Mike
Going which way to which way? I'll go drive it. (not that it ever moves fast enough to reach wobbling speed)
> Generally, only the incentives that are offered on a vehicle at the time of delivery can
be applied to the price of the vehicle.
Well, at least my dealer was playing it straight with me.
-Mike
Not sure I would use the term "Death Wobble" at the service department. I just said it sounds similar, and maybe the same causes come into play.
Does the steering wheel saw left and right real rapidly as you experience this? It would if you really had death wobble.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
For me I don't want an auto (can't make me this time). I live about 20 minutes outside of the Smoky Mtns and there is a GREAT place to Off Road with some pretty awesome climbs. Even the dealers have tried to talk me out of the manual but until you try to climb/descend from some of these hills slowly ..augh. It cracks me up to go to the dealers and tell them I want a manual as they all take a double take and say excuse me, around here about 90% of what you find on the lots are automatics.
Well my biggest decision right now is to go with the Rocky Mtn X or the Sport with the AAC (I think) option. I will be talking to the dealer Monday so we will see.
Laura
I suppose Windrock and Tellico will be places you will take your Jeep for wheelin'? You could put the 4:1 T-case and front and back lockers of a Rubicon to good use at either of those places.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S.
Forgive me, if you posted some kind of spending limit for this new Jeep. The Rubicon may be above your limit, but you could never buy a Sport and add all the goodies that a Rubicon has without spending about three or four times the difference in price between the two. The Rubicon has Dana 44's front and back, a 4:1 Transfer Case low range gear ratio (standard is 2.72:1 in other Wranglers), SELECTABLE lockers front and back, 4.11 gears and 16" MT/R tires in 31 x 10.50 size. The Rubicon is an awesome trail rig at a super bargain price!
Laura - I prefer the manual for going down hill for the reasons stated (engine braking going downhill) but I prefer an auto in the sand (something we see quite a bit) - it is easier to spin your wheels with a manual, which means it is easier to get stuck. Both are really minor advantages for the terrain I experience (I'm not a rock crawler so don't know about the auto having the problem that Tom talked about). If you want a manual, stick to your guns and get one - you'll be happy you did.
By the way, while I didn't special order the Unlimited, there was only one that met what I wanted in SoCal. The dealer I bought it from (Buerge) had to trade with another dealer to sell it with me, so perhaps whatever dealer you like best can do the same thing to get your manual.
Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
As far as the alarm I was thinking of getting one with the Perimeter & Motion Sensor with a pager.
If I am correct, I don't think the X has the Sentry Key option
Laura
Cupped? Cupped?! Of course not. My tires are not cupped! How dare you!
Um...what's cupped?
Seriously, I don't know what that means but looking at my tires nothing about them suggests cuppage. I do get the tires rotated per the schedule (Well, I request it. God knows if they actually do it.) Since this has happened to me 3 times -- once early on and twice recently I'm wondering if some combination of tire placement causes it. Like maybe the tires have been rotated back to original starting position. Maybe one's a defect. I had an increasing wobble in a Prelude; turned out to be a slowly bubbling tire. Probably not, but I'm trying to cover all bases before my Wrangler up and explodes.
I will brave the Sepulveda pass and drive the 405 later tonight.
Thanks Mtngal & all.
-Mike
"Weebles Wobble but they don't fall down!"
I work as a Graphic Designer and deal with image size / file size issues every day.
When saving a Jpeg in Photoshop (I assume other photo-editing applications do this as well) a "jpeg options" window appears. You then have the option of choosing a compression size; Large, Medium, or Small. If you choose the smallest Medium setting, 5, you can lower the file size significantly.
I just tested a file that was 370k at the Large setting, saved it at the "5" setting and dropped the file size down to 50k. Keep in mind I never changed the actual dimensions of the file. So the picture was still decent size to view. It lowers the quality of the pic, but not by much. Let's face it, we don't really need Hi-Res images on here. :P
Long story short, we can still post good size pics at small file sizes.
This way we don't kill the dial up folks. :shades:
-Dan
Ever since I was a junior in HS, I have loved jeeps. At 48, I am thinking about taking the plunge! I know, I know, maybe I should wait until I have given it some serious thought or looked at all the available options, BUT... It appears that time is running short vs what I have heard about the '06-'07 model year changes. Rubicon is what I am thinking. Any one have any thoughts vis-a-vis the Sport or other models. Your input would be appreciated. Tom, I would like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks everyone - Chuck
Man, it would be impossible to recommend a particular model without knowing how you plan to use the Jeep.
Unless you are going to do some pretty serious off roading, the Rubicon will have way more capability than you will ever use. Still, if you can afford one, and if you really want one, then go for it. Jeeps ain't practical anyway, are they? We get 'em for FUN. If you think it would be fun to have a Rubicon, that's what you should get.
If you do not go with the Rubicon, then a Sport with that AAS package would be the next best thing. You would have the Dana 44 rear axle and some gorgeous wheels, the Ravine style wheels, and good gearing, 3.73's. This is a platform that can be built on nicely. You have gearing to support up to 33" tires, although you might not be completely happy with acceleration with 33's amd the 3.73 gears, it would be "liveable." You would have the Dana 44 to support a full locker in the back.
Next would be the X model, and you should really consider the Rocky Mountain edition, if you go X. It would get you the Dana 44 rear axle. I think it comes with 3.73 gears also.
Chuck, the very lowest model Jeep, the SE, with its four banger engine might be all the Jeep you need. If it would be mainly used around town with very little highway driving, then the SE would be fine.
It all depends on how you will use the Jeep. ANY JEEP IS COOL! You take the top and doors off a Jeep, whether it is an SE or a Rubicon, you got yourself one FUN ride!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Here's my 2 cents.
SE -- The base model. 4 cyl. Very simple. Utilitarian. But it still gets you in a Wrangler! Top down, doors off!
X -- A smart compromise so those who don't want to spend on a Sport don't have to settle for 4 cyls. A few choice bells and whistles.
SPORT -- Middle of the Road. Lots of possibilities. Comes standard with attractive options, and has good options packages. A real deal Jeep. This is what I chose.
SAHARA -- Not sure they make these anymore, at least in the short wheel base. If there are some kicking around, these are the luuuuuuxury model. Better seats and colored fender flares. I think there's an Unlimited Sahara (but is that the luxury edition or the movie edition? Anyone?).
RUBICON -- This is an honest to goodness serious off roader. No foolin.'
UNLIMITED -- Extra cab space, more leg room in the back. A streeetch Wrangler. Not sure of the trim options.
At various times there have been Wrangler Tomb Raider editions, as well as Patriot, Rocky Mountain, Columbia I think, etc.
If you're already thinking Rubicon, then you probably won't want to dip further down than a Sport. Still, all Wrangelrs are, I believe, trail rated. They will all go into 4 wheel drive and perform well. But, there is a difference of exactly what capabilities the different trims will offer. Tom summed it up pretty well. Others will too. Axles, gear ratios, etc.
Thought I'd offer my primer in newbie speak, since I speak it well.
Happy Shopping,
Mike
I was speaking about the 3:73 rear end with the trac-loc...not the Rubicon. I thought we were talking about what Laura might buy in the case of her wanting a manual versus the auto. I think the Rubicon is certainly a different animal with the 4:11...sorry for any confusion. I tested the Unlimited in auto and manual and there was no comparison in crawl ratio or engine compression coming down hills. As we all know, there is a BIG difference between the Rubicon and a 3:73 Wrangler and I would probably opt for the auto in the Rubicon for my driving conditions. :confuse:
I found the article about the test drive of the Rubicon automatic that was done by RockCrawler in Moab. This is what they discovered about the auto versus the manual. Not for argument, just for information discovered in test drives.
"I don't typically prefer automatics when four-wheeling but I figured I may as well give this one a try so I could check out the new four-speed tranny. Compared to the manual's 66.4:1 crawl ratio, the automatic's 46.7:1 (not including the torque converter) quickly revealed itself as we began our descent. No longer could I sit back and let the motor hold us as we crawled down the hill. The automatic's higher 1st gear was a different animal, entirely. The brake pedal was used almost the whole way down the rim, as the gearing just couldn't hold me back as much as I would have liked it to. However, if you like automatics and the simplicity they offer when driving, the new 42RLE will be a great improvement over the 30/32RH three-speed previously offered through 2002. The 30/32RH had a first gear ratio of 2.74 compared to the 42RLE's 2.84.
Craig and I headed toward the Devil's Crack, which is below the infamous Z-Turn. Craig told me about his ride the day before where his driver stood the Jeep straight up. I laughed and assured him that we'd be just fine. As we got to the crack, I eased up to it and tried to hold the brakes as much as I could. As the Rubicon dropped over the edge, the front end went straight down, putting all of the Jeep's weight on the front end. I stood on the brakes as Craig stood up in the footwell. The front end was practically buried and one wheel was in the air. This was a great test for the Rubicon's new axle joints which are said to be about eight times stronger than the 297 joints found on the Dana 30 axles. I looked over to Craig and said, "we're totally fine. No problem. Under control." Craig's worried face soon relaxed as I eased forward and leveled the Jeep. "Is that what happened yesterday," I asked him, as I laughed.
Not too many people will put themselves in this situation and I would still go with an auto in the Rubicon...just a preference.
Keith
Thelma Jane got stuck in a small but deep mudhole, and good old Mr. Warn came to my assistance. (That's my Warn 9.5Ti winch I am talking about.)
The hole was deeper on the left, so Thelma Jane was leaned over to the drivers side quite a bit. I was afraid water would come through the door opening, since it must have been deep enough on the drivers side for the bottom of the door to be under the surface of the water. I climbed out the passenger side and avoided the mud by standing on the passenger side door jam and jumping to solid ground.
Fortunately, the front end was close enough to the end of the mudhole that I could stand on solid ground to pull winch cable.
Without Mr. Warn today, I would have been up the proverbial tributary without the proper means of locomotion.
Thank you, Mr. Warn!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?