Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Of course it isn't for all applications and I know that the surfaces have to be perfectly clean for it to work. Who knows how it was applied?
Never heard of a "time sert" so I suppose I'll google it and find out how they differ from a Heli Coil.
EDIT: Just watched a Time-sert video and they look like they would work even better than a Heli-Coil!
You and the customer both! Timing, they say, is everything.
That's the difference between real experience and perception. Consumers have a way of selectively hearing what they want to hear. About 60% of the sensors cleaned result in the customer having to come back. A full 50% of those you'll be replacing that sensor on your dime instead of theirs and you'll still risk getting a bad review.
. Maybe it last 5 months, maybe cleaning last 5 years or longer. Definitely worth the risk.
NOT....
Define full operation.
The "Engine Load" pid must be able to report 100% engine load through the full operating range.
Yea, it was about 2, maybe 3 seconds. I still got it on my left shoulder and my ear.
You and the customer both!
I don 't believe the customer could be held liable. Even worse, as a sole proprietor, workmans comp won't touch me. That's just one of the things people don't realize that we risk every day.
Forums generally allow for a bit more "slack" grammar than professional web-sites or publications.
I agree, but without some standards set there are people who will argue with us. The question then becomes, who sets the rules? I say the O.E. does.
I understand why a shop wouldn't want to improvise but what did I have to lose, or what did the shop have to lose, in this case?
The guy who cut the hole in the Camaro used the same argument.
BMW wants me to throw away (!!) a perfectly good, two-piece, beautifully made driveshaft because a u-joint is bad, and sock me for a new one
Mercedes, Subaru, and a few others use staked in joints too. We used to replace ball joints, now there are many versions that are only serviced as a complete control arm. The problem there is, you can find repacement joints for some of those arms and they usually work just well enough to result in a problem for the owner down the road.
There's a difference between clever and reckless
So who has the final say as to where the difference is?
Well the re-threading worked, and it's been fine for well over a year. Would a POrsche dealer do it? No way.
So some day you trade it in or sell it. Do you disclose this and advise the new owner that should they need to have some work done this may turn out to be an issue?
So the shop that cleans the sensor for 50.00 is a good guy and the guy who replaces it for 450.00 is a crook?
If I owned a shop I would make VERY sure the customer knew that there would be a very good chance that the cleaning wouldn't work. Even then when the cleaning job acted up a year later most customers wouldn't remember that you tried to save them money.
Customers can be brutal when it comes to money.
No doubt, these are an excellent thread repair solution. Pricey, but worth it.
The Northstar is a fine exampe of what you can do with these. BTW it's a lot of work to do every head bolt.
While I have you, maybe you can shed some light on this post over in Edmunds Answers about a CR-V owner with a flaky aftermarket alarm or recommend someone. Thanks!
I know I wouldn't want to own one.
QUOTE: You KNEW it wouldn't work and just tried to rip me off for an extra $50!!!
I'll take a look but I'm guessing it's a typical junky aftermarket alarm system.
When we took in a trade with one, one false alarm and we disabled it.
Exactly!
So, Jipster....seriously is this how you would feel.
Yeah, it sounds like one of those cheapo alarms that died right on schedule.
neighbor |ˈnābər| ( Brit. neighbour)
noun
a person living near or next door to the speaker or person referred to : our garden was the envy of the neighbors.
¥ a person or place in relation to others near or next to it : I chatted with my neighbor on the flight to New York | matching our investment levels with those of our North American neighbors.
¥ any person in need of one's help or kindness (after biblical use) : love thy neighbor as thyself.
And I am not American, I am Canadian.. therefore I spell with Canadian spelling which follows Britain spelling. There are lots of other examples. using 'our' instead of 'or'.
Anyway, it's not the first time isellhondas has put his foot in it..
"people in glass houses"....There's an old saying...the less you have to say, the greater the chance that people won't know how little you know.
Maybe you could give a $20 kickback to every shop around you that installs either one. :shades:
(Thanks Isell - thumbs up. :shades: )
Your posts seem to reflect a rather low opinion of consumers. You seem to know what is best for them... irreguardless of how they feel about the matter. But, it is their hard earned money, not yours.
In the case of a dirty MAF sensor I believe the professional thing to do would verbalize the pros and cons of cleaning the thing versuses replacing with new. And let the consumer decide which way to go. Sure, you'll get some that come back and complain about an early failure... deal with it.... that's why you get paid the big bucks. At least you know you did the ethical thing.
Had I known better at the time, I could have removed the dirty MAF on my 1999 Buick regal, cleaned and put it back in, in about 15 minutes. That would have saved me $120 diagnostic fee and the $450 part and labor fee. If the dealership had offered me a choice at that time, I would have said clean it. It might not be a big deal to you, but $400 is a lot of money to a lot of people.
The "Engine Load" pid must be able to report 100% engine load through the full operating range
A simple clean can do that.
Exactly. Give them the choice. You do it with brakes. A lot of people would gladly put off paying $450 today for something they may or may not have to pay for in a year.
That's funny.
The "Engine Load" pid must be able to report 100% engine load through the full operating range
A simple clean can do that.
But usually does not.
In the case of a dirty MAF sensor I believe the professional thing to do would verbalize the pros and cons of cleaning the thing versuses replacing with new
So how many years have you worked as a technician? What has your track record been?
Your posts seem to reflect a rather low opinion of consumers. You seem to know what is best for them... irreguardless of how they feel about the matter. But, it is their hard earned money, not yours.
Not the consumers, I have a problem though when someone mis-informs them. If they trust you, and you ARE WRONG, then we don't get to be right for fixing their car correctly. It isn't about the money at all, but you don't seem to be able to understand that. If cleaning them worked, we would still do it. But it didn't, and so we don't. You had to ask how I could tell if cleaning the sensor had worked or not, I don't think you even knew of that pid or exactly how its calculated and why its important. JMHO. Hit some books, its a lack of experience and training that still believes in cleaning the sensors.
Apples/Oranges....
You obviously don't have any experience dealing with consumers where no matter which you choose to do, in this case to clean the sensor or replace it, someone else will armchair you, tell them you don't know what you are doing and that you took advantage of them. Picture being wrong both ways!
Quite often we only have the choices that the O.E. gives us when doing repairs. Clearly, you weren't there when we used to try and clean them and thought that we were doing right by the consumer, only to have the "fix" fail and then the customer complained to the point that the manufacturer often ended up having to replace the sensor on a goodwill basis. So then it was a matter of finding out why it appeared to work, and then failed.
Oh, and new MAF sensors are often as little as $125. Nissan went through a whole series where we would replace the sensor and reflash the PCM, and that fixed the car.
I have a name for mechanics who freely spend other people's money--I call them "poet mechanics"--they are so good, so pure, so superior, that they would not stoop to the level of the ordinary mortal and attempt a "fix" on something. Naturally, this would be beneath their dignity as "artists".
If the customer protests, the poet mechanic can merely turn on his heels, and point to the door: "If you have to ask zee price, you cannot afford to be here!"
:P
I'd like to hear cardoc's comments about the handling of consumers calling, in between being shills for the alcohol lobbyists and for motorkote. Like The Truckers Radio show on WLW 700 from 12 to 5am, the Andy Granatelli of STP fame-like motorkote guy is there pushing his motorkote. Bolt won't come loose: motorkote it. Transmission slamming into next gear: put motorkote in it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not a mechanic. But, that has little to do with my contention you should give a customer a choice on what repair method to choose.
My track record? I've done some work under "the hood"... on my own dime. Took apart a mass airflow sensor to see how simple it would have been to clean, plugs, ignition coils, fan control module, idle air control valve, pcv hose replacements etc etc.... a few air filters and batteries. :P I probably know how to diagnoise and repair a second generation Maza MPV better than most automotive technicans.
If cleaning them worked, we would still do it. But it didn't, and so we don't.
You wrote cleaning them worked on 40% of the cars ( I think it's higher). Still a pretty decent percentage when trying to save $400 or $500. But, you didn't indicate over what time period the other 60% falls in... one week, one year, ten years?
If they trust you, and you ARE WRONG
As long as you present all information possible, and give the customer a choice on repair options, then they will trust you whether you are wrong or not.
If you're worried about a customer coming back and yelling at you because the repair failed, simple write on their work order,"Work not guaranteed, explained to custumer cleaned MAF sensor may fail in near future, recommended a new sensor." That takes care of that problem.
Well, $285. You forgot the $100 diagnostic fee. Plus labor if you didn't include that.... another $60 or more.
Well thats about two days work for a pro and you think
I probably know how to diagnose and repair a second generation Mazda MPV better than most automotive technicians
You have repeatedly attempted to use price as the focus of your debate, and your method has always been to pin the price on the shop/technician. If anyone has a hang-up over a penny, its you and you keep trying to project it onto someone else as a strong arm method to get your way.
As a business man, as well as a technician I know all too well that price is important, but you cannot worship two gods. The moment you put price before quality, quality will suffer and now as a technician you will reveal yourself as being incompetent.
I'm not a mechanic. But, that has little to do with my contention you should give a customer a choice on what repair method to choose.
That statement assumes that we don't give a customer choices. The facts are that when it's appropriate we do give them choices, some times many choices. But there are also times that we cannot. The trouble starts when someone else tries to decide what is or isn't appropriate, when they don't actually have the training and experience that really puts them in the position to do so. Typically when this happens, they play the price card because they simply don't know anything else to do.
You wrote cleaning them worked on 40% of the cars ( I think it's higher). Still a pretty decent percentage when trying to save $400 or $500. But, you didn't indicate over what time period the other 60% falls in... one week, one year, ten years?
Yep, I did. The "40%" of the time that cleaning the sensor appeared to work, there wasn't any predictable time frame associated to it. What happened is the car went from barely running, to what would be an acceptable level of performance. The best we actually did was make it impossible to prove that the sensor needed to be replaced at that moment in time. Now back then we didn't know what data we should really be looking at which would have proven that the "repair" wasn't 100%. In others what happened is armed with the information that the sensor was failing now the owner simply went about replacing it himself.
One notable occasion I had an owner who replaced the sensor himself with a cheap re-man and when he didn't get the desired result came back complaining that the car wasn't diagnosed correctly. That wasn't you was it? :P
If you're worried about a customer coming back and yelling at you because the repair failed, simple write on their work order,"Work not guaranteed,
Anyone who writes that on a repair order just handed the owner signed proof that they know that they didn't fix the car. Take that to a judge and the consumer will win every time.
explained to customer cleaned MAF sensor may fail in near future, recommended a new sensor."
You should have just replaced it for them for free in the beginning and saved everyone including yourself the aggravation.
As I said, one of us is all hung up on price. Lets fix it right first, otherwise the price is meaningless.
Your point is? Do you really want to play the name calling game?
If the customer protests, the poet mechanic can merely turn on his heels, and point to the door: "If you have to ask zee price, you cannot afford to be here!"
This coming from a guy who owns a Mini , and was crying that a new clutch and flywheel would run some $1700. I asked you then, who held the gun to your head and forced you to buy a Mini? Then we had the issue about choosing and using the correct oil, again it was about price first and not understanding the specifications and adhereing to the manufacturers specifications. We have a name for people like that. Your a "peasant in a chariot". :shades:
Yes, I've run across a couple of mechanics with that attitude over the years as well...
IMO, they attempted to live EXACTLY by the book, and didn't seem to have the capability and/or rationality to actually understand the issues or what was happening to cause the fault. They did what they did because that's what their interpretation of the manual said they should do, regardless how outlandish or strange it might be.
Give it up jip; in cardoc3's world anyone who works on their own car(or worse, who has the temerity to work on someone else's car) is an ignorant and incompetent hack.
But if it makes you feel any better, I think I can diagnose and repair an E36 BMW better than most any tech that doesn't specialize in BMWs. And ditto for Jeep TJs. Im sure we will soon be informed that we are delusional...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I'm not a tightwad when it comes to fixing cars---you couldn't be more dead wrong about that. But I refuse to pay for a mechanic covering up his laziness with my checkbook. If someone is a parts replacer, then that's what the sign out front should read: "West Coast Parts Replacers--if we merely suspect it, we swap it out".
If your point is that mechanics are above criticism, then they aren't merely mechanics, they are also adherents to a religion of sorts, aren't they? I mean, a system that has locked them into a "prison of belief" --wherein no criticism is tolerated. Call it The Brotherhood then. :P
As for the "poet mechanic", it is the best term I could come up with for the unmitigated arrogance that one might occasionally come up against, especially in the foreign car trade.
It could as easily be a "poet carpenter" or "poet plumber" or "poet architect". Mechanics are not the target. I suspect that such pride masks an insecurity in any trade, even medical.
The symptoms are a) no one has anything to teach me; b) don't tell me how to do my job--E-V-E-R; c) I must protect myself from my customers' treachery d) no one appreciates my struggle to attain this great height.
No. I thought I spelled in out to you in rather plain and simple terms. I'll do it again.The focus should be on giving the customer a choice in the type of rapair they want... specifically a mass airflow sensor. Like it or not, most people are focused on price when they are having a car repaired. You don't need to decide whats best for a customer, you need to give them all available information and let them decide. If it comes back on you... tough. That's why you get paid the big bucks.
The trouble starts when someone else tries to decide what is or isn't appropriate, when they don't actually have the training and experience that really puts them in the position to do so
You're the guy that thinks people should bring their car in for a $100 diagnostic fee when they forget to put to screw on their gas cap properly... aren't you? Easy to make those recommendations when it's other peoples money.
I can see you wanting to save people money long term. Unfortunately, there are many people out there who can only afford the short term fix. That's why you give them the option. If OE and no choice, well then, that's what you have to do.
Yep, I did. The "40%" of the time that cleaning the sensor appeared to work, there wasn't any predictable time frame associated to it. What happened is the car went from barely running, to what would be an acceptable level of performance
LOL. You're "spinning" aren't you?
Anyone who writes that on a repair order just handed the owner signed proof that they know that they didn't fix the car. Take that to a judge and the consumer will win every time.
You a lawyer? Worded properly and taken to a judge, you'd win every time. Don't want to take it to court, settle with the less than 1% of people that would take you to court in the first place. The other 99% would probably shake their heads, then walk off in embarrassment.
I'm not a tightwad when it comes to fixing cars---you couldn't be more dead wrong about that
Show me where during the last few days of interraction that you wrote something that supports that if you would. But even so, lets go with it and you aren't a tightwad, so then why attack taking a legitimate approach to be the best one can be at this trade? Why when do others pile on and why do they have to resort to using price, and price alone as their focal point?
You used to be in the trade, correct? Of all people if you don't recognize how being pressured into cutting corners to save a dime routinely causes the results to be less than desireable then how are we supposed to help everyone else understand? You (and others) want to twist it to making the shop look greedy and you (they) couldn't be more wrong. The only difference is that you (they) have never had an opposing voice willing to stand up and take the heat like I have been doing.
We have to be the only trade that gets kicked in the teeth for trying to make sure that we do a good job, day in and day out.
I'm waiting for the guys in white coats to show up as we speak.
I understand and appreciate the difficult job a "mechanic" has... but come on, let's not get all grandiose and compare it to being a brain surgeon. :surprise:
I agree, but what do we know?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
That reminds me of something one of my old mechanics (since retired and now deceased) once told me. Apparently, on the old Chrysler and Desoto Hemi (possibly the Dodge as well), there's a freeze plug in the back, on each side of the engine, that's really hard to get to. So if it failed, they would cut a hole in the firewall, access it through the passenger cabin, and then seal the firewall back up.
Eeek! :surprise:
Maybe doing something like that was no big deal by the time these things were just old used cars that nobody really cared about. But the idea of having my '57 Firedome butchered like that gives me a bit of a chill!
I wonder if that cutting a hole in the firewall technique was widespread? And if it also applied to a lot of other engines, as well?
LOL. You're "spinning" aren't you?
No you edited out the rest of the subject that it didn't actually fix the car, it only succeeded in making it good enough to be difficult to prove that it was still broken.
You a lawyer? Worded properly and taken to a judge
Nope not a lawyer so how would I know if it was really worded properly or not? We just know what happens when shops do get sued. That disclaimer is evidence that the shop knew that the car wasn't repaired correctly, signed evidence.
Don't want to take it to court, settle with the less than 1% of people that would take you to court in the first place. The other 99% would probably shake their heads, then walk off in embarrassment.
How about do the job correctly the first time and never have to deal with any of that?
You're the guy that thinks people should bring their car in for a $100 diagnostic fee when they forget to put to screw on their gas cap properly... aren't you? Easy to make those recommendations when it's other peoples money.
Really? Where did I ever say that I charge that much if that is what is wrong with someone's car?
I can see you wanting to save people money long term. Unfortunately, there are many people out there who can only afford the short term fix.
Then let ME (us) decide. I've given away more than you'll ever know because I'd rather do that then halfA$$ a job and have to deal with it twice. If I gotta lose, its always going to be on my terms.
That's why you give them the option. If OE and no choice, well then, that's what you have to do.
When your name is on the side of the building, you can give away anything and everything that you want to.
No. I thought I spelled in out to you in rather plain and simple terms. I'll do it again. The focus should be on giving the customer a choice in the type of rapair they want... specifically a mass airflow sensor.
I have yet to see the customer who is happy to have to bring their car back a second, or third time to have the same problem fixed. So they must want it right the first time, right?
Like it or not, most people are focused on price when they are having a car repaired.
No, YOU are focused on price. Most people want convenience and precision.
You don't need to decide whats best for a customer, you need to give them all available information and let them decide. If it comes back on you... tough. That's why you get paid the big bucks.
Thanks for laying all of your cards out. You want cheap and if cheap bites the tech in the rear your all for it as long as you ended up with the car fixed cheap. BTW, there are no big bucks here. We spend every penny just making ends meet week to week and trying to stay tooled and schooled for our customers. I have tools that owning them costs me more than $100 each time they come out of the tool box, and then you don't even want to pay for the time that it takes to use them.
Well, I will be the first to admit that the job is much tougher than it looks- especially for shops that strive to provide quality service for all makes.
Now having said that, there are folks like you and me that have accumulated decades of experience with a particular make or model of car. In my case, I have been working on BMWs since 1983- starting with an E3 Bavaria 3.0, and later moving up the food chain to serve as the East Coast Tech Advisor for the ///M Register back in the '90s and now dealing with E36 and E9x 3 Series cars.
Now let me give you a couple of examples of faulty diagnosis- both from dealers that should know better:
I had a friend with an E83 X3 as well as another gentleman with an E46 325xi both advise me that their dealers told them that their vehicles had leaking oil pan gaskets and recommended that they be replaced. That is a somewhat complex and fiddly job on an AWD BMW because an axleshaft runs through the oil pan; both dealers wanted over $1,000 to do the work. I asked the owners where the leak was located and both said that it was coming from the left front corner of the oil pan. I told them both to take their cars to another shop, because BMW oil pan gaskets rarely fail- but that the oil filter housing gaskets can be problematic as the cars age. Both cars were taken to a good indie BMW tech, and the leaks were found to be originating at the oil filter housing gasket.
Of course, I'm relatively certain that my diagnosis will be characterized as merely a lucky guess...
:P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I know of some shops that would do some similar surgery to access the heater core in 1984-up Thunderbirds and Cougars.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
You act like 400.00 is nothing. Maybe it's a month's worth of groceries for some single mom trying to get by.
I agree with jipster on this one and, honestly, you sound miserable in your profession. Cutting corners on critical items is one thing but making an attempt to actually "fix" something is another.
If I ran a shop I would never machine a brake rotor or drum that is out of specs nor would I look the other way if a brake caliper was leaking.
I certainly would clean a MAP sensor AFTER having a very direct conversation with my customer. If I suspected the customer would forget this conversation later or trash my shop on Yelp, I would politely refuse the job and send him elsewhere.
I liked the term "Poet Mechanic". We used to call them Prima Donnas. Some were good at their jobs and some were not. They would listen to nobody.
And, yeah, most people ARE focused on price when they take their cars into a shop. If a shop can find them a way to save a few bucks while doing a great job they are happy and YES, it is possible to do this!
I can't imagine anyone other than a billionaire not caring at some point about price.
I'm certainly no miser, and I understand the cars I drive aren't cheap to maintain (modern BMW's), but at the same time, I don't give my dealer carte blanche whenever I take my car in for service or repair.
Specifically, I'd like to know what your approach in dealing with the car owner would be if he dropped the car off at your shop and gave you the explanation below... I have an opinion, but I don't want to jade the "conversation" by giving it before seeing your response. Please make any comments you feel inclined to make. Thanks...
My fuel pump failed on my BMW. It was sitting in my driveway. It was towed to the mechanic. He replaced the fuel pump. It sat over night in his garage. It would not start. He replaced the fuel new fuel pump again. I drove it home. It would not start the next day. I towed it to the mechanic. He replaced the fuel pump a third time. It sat over night. It failed to start in the morning. At this point, after thoroughly checking the car, he cut open the original fuel pump. The impeller had swollen. He emptied the fuel tank, saving a sample of the fuel. He believed that the fuel had caused all of the fuel pumps to fail. I also live in the Hudson Valley, NY. The issue here is neither the age of the car nor the age of the fuel pumps. Even the make of the pump cannot be blamed because my mechanic used both BMW and non-BMW parts trying to repair this 2001 BMW 325xi. Something is seriously wrong and potentially dangerous if alcohol placed in fuel can essentially melt the part. It's both the fault of oil companies and the car makers. For what it is worth, in Westchester Co, a higher ethanol content is required during certain months of the year, higher than surrounding counties.
Lol.
I do miss the 2004 Mazda Mpv we traded in back in July. A hard shifting transmission between second and third led me to believe it was a valve body problem. Several at a MPV forum suggested it could be taken apart and cleaned. Others say to just replace. Similar to our m.a.f sensor discussion huh?lol. But, some reliability issues with the mpv and mileage, were enough for my wife to want a new car, which turned out to be our HyundI Veracruz. I must say that researching, then being able to diagnose and then repair (the first time) faulty parts with the mpv was very satisfying. :shades:
Do you have any idea what someone say's to a mechanic who attempts a repair and fails who didn't use the available service information?
Watch the following posts. Man you guys are making this easy!!
Tell me something. Why do you deserve an ounce more respect here in this forum, where you have no real ability to prove yourself other than your words than you have shown mechanics/techs?
Dr Mark Richardson of UPMC Pittsburgh performed surgery on my wife last fall to try and stop her clusters of epileptic seizures. He removed a big section of the right temporal lobe because the point that they identified was pretty deep inside her brain. It actually took two surgeries, the first one was to place sensors on and in her brain which helped measure some of her seizures.
Nothing that any of us do in our lives, nor here in this forum compares to what they are trying to do down there and your use of that exaggeration to make your point needs to be tamed IMO.
That being said, being a technician today certainly isn't making straw bricks either. I'd love to have any of you visit my shop and get to turn you loose to try and do my job. I'll never forget the guy who works on aircraft avionics for US Airways when he watched me diagnose and solve the no-start on his Caravan. The cause was a grounded data line shutting down communication and that resulted in the PCM not being able to receive SKIM data. It took me less than an hour, he was out the door for the basic diagnostic fee that we charge. That's the reality of what we do, and it in no way matches your stereotypes. Brain surgery, certainly not. But are YOU trained and experienced enough to do it, let alone in under an hour? Same answer...JMHO
Oh, and following "the book" in this case would not get you to the answer that fast, because the engineers have had to admit they cannot write a trouble tree that can effectively lead to the answer. We have to have techs with the right tools and training and then offer them a rewarding career to get them to stay.
Maybe you do know a "little more" about being a mechanic then the average poster.
Now having said that, there are folks like you and me that have accumulated decades of experience with a particular make or model of car. In my case, I have been working on BMWs since 1983- starting with an E3 Bavaria 3.0,
Well that's about a cup of water in the ocean isn't it?
and later moving up the food chain to serve as the East Coast Tech Advisor for the ///M Register back in the '90s and now dealing with E36 and E9x 3 Series cars.
Care to elaborate on exactly what that is supposed to mean?
I asked the owners where the leak was located and both said that it was coming from the left front corner of the oil pan. I told them both to take their cars to another shop, because BMW oil pan gaskets rarely fail- but that the oil filter housing gaskets can be problematic as the cars age. Both cars were taken to a good indie BMW tech, and the leaks were found to be originating at the oil filter housing gasket.
Of course, I'm relatively certain that my diagnosis will be characterized as merely a lucky guess...
You were doing so nice, but you had to blow it didn't you?
TSB's have their places. Those "oil leaks" could easily have been exactly what you thought. So what happens when that 21st car comes in, and the tech seals up the oil filler adapter, (because it worked 20 times) only this time the pan really is leaking? The other posts talked about "poet mechanic" and how he could only go by the book. Exactly why is using this pattern failure, without actually seeing the car and taking the necessary steps to prove what the problem was any different than what they wanted to condemn?
We could spend some time discussing what the techs were being paid to locate leaks in those shops. But it essentially comes down to training. Don't pay the tech to take the time to really investigate the problem and you train them to not spend any time. No one should be surprised that the eventual outcome of not paying the techs to diagnose is that they will make more mistakes. But the alternative is that the shop has to charge the customer, to pay the tech for the time. The problem is you don't respect that either and would rather go to someone that wouldn't charge to look for a leak. As smart as you are, your're still not smart enough to break this failure string. But you can always blame the techs, everyone can always resort to blaiming the techs.
Then you wonder, why can't you find any great techs!!!
What do they say to the same mechanic when he uses ONLY the available service information, ignores the physical evidence, and doesn't clearly examine the problem to determine EXACTLY what the problem is in the first place?
Oh, and following "the book" in this case would not get you to the answer that fast, because the engineers have had to admit they cannot write a trouble tree that can effectively lead to the answer. We have to have techs with the right tools and training and then offer them a rewarding career to get them to stay.
Two conflicting statements, but you did verify my comment's validity in your second comment
One has to open his eyes, so to speak, when attempting to resolve an issue, mechanical or otherwise. There are always other factors "at play", and the question is always..."Are those factors relevant to the current situation?"