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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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Comments

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    right next to the TV repairman

    Yea they used to come to your house with a suitcase of tubes from which they could swap and try to see if that fixed "the problem". If a tube was plugged in and you didn't see it start glowing, it would be easy to recognize if there was a power or ground issue with that tube socket, that's when they loaded the console up in the car and took it back to the shop. If swapping tubes didn't fix the problem, then it was typically back to the shop too.

    People caught on and they starting finding out that they could buy tubes and try to fix the sets themselves. Suddenly a large portion of the easier work disappeared, and they were only left with the more difficult stuff. With a lower number of repairs, in order to survive they had to make all of their living off of what was coming in the door and that forced the pricing on what they still did to climb, and the rest is history. Now if you have a problem with a TV, most people throw it away and buy a new one.

    The same goes for washers, driers, and just about any other appliance we have in our homes.

    and the vac and sew place

    We lost our sewing place about two years ago. We still have a Vac Shop.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    There's more to the demise of TV repair shops than what you alluded to.

    Modern day sets are so much more reliable than the old tube type sets. I have a 15+ year old 32 inch Panasonic (picture tube type) that has never given me a ounce of trouble (all solid state except for the picture tube and maybe the high voltage supply for the tube).

    Last set I had problems was with a 19 inch RCA that I bought for one of my kids when they went off to college. When it wouldn't turn on, after some basic troubleshooting and reflowing of solder joints, I tossed it. It wasn't worth paying any money to try and get it fixed.

    Also, TV sets nowadays are much cheaper, than they were 20 or 30 years ago - more so when inflation is taken into account. When you can buy a new 32" flat screen for under $200, why pay anything to try and repair one that's not working. The same cannot be said of cars.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    There is one TV "repair" shop in my community, but from what I can tell, they are far more a warranty provider for several companies that manufacture flat screens, and pretty much all they do is card-swapping in sets that are still under warranty.

    I doubt they do much repair at all on out of warranty sets, unless they fall in the ultra-expensive range. Otherwise, it doesn't pay to spend the effort to fix a broken flat screen that can be replaced for just a few hundred bucks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh I don't know if the TV-Car analogy is too far off---modern cars are much more reliable than old ones, and even though they aren't necessarily "cheaper" than old ones, you get a massive dose of accessories even on the entry-level cars these days--things that would have cost you extra on an older car.

    You're right, though, that cars aren't exactly "throw away" times like 5 year old TV sets, but more and more people are faced with $10,000 repair bills on $9000 cars.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    Modern day sets are so much more reliable than the old tube type sets. I have a 15+ year old 32 inch Panasonic (picture tube type) that has never given me a ounce of trouble (all solid state except for the picture tube and maybe the high voltage supply for the tube).

    Every once in a while someone will call and ask if I'll still work on a tube type amplifier.

    http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Marshall-Amps

    Most of the time they have already been throwing tubes at it and they need someone who can trouble-shoot the chassis. Fixing them helps keep all the skills just a little sharper....

    Last set I had problems was with a 19 inch RCA that I bought for one of my kids when they went off to college. When it wouldn't turn on, after some basic troubleshooting and reflowing of solder joints, I tossed it. It wasn't worth paying any money to try and get it fixed.

    Yea, those were the days. I still have my screen grid convergence driver. My 25" Mitsubishi lost the flyback transformer once and developed fractured solder joints to the blue and green guns. I gotta laugh its been given away three times and each time its been used for six months to a year and then returned when the "borrower" could finally get a new set. Anyone want it? VBG

    When you can buy a new 32" flat screen for under $200, why pay anything to try and repair one that's not working. The same cannot be said of cars

    The tools that I have that helped me fix TV's came with my education in electronics that I got back in the early 80's, they cost about a grand in total back then. I spend that much every month on software updates that are essentially rented today for the cars and the rest of my tools cost me over 1/4 mil.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,759
    trying to fix it might delay the owner on their trip anyway.

    Makes sense to me! My family just recently finished up our 12,641 mile trans-continental trip, and we ended up having an oil leak on our Subaru Forester that developed in the eastern US. It went from being a "huh; I think the oil level is dropping a little" concern to a "WHOA! WTF?!" issue over the course of about 1,000 miles. I first felt a concern about it at around 60,000 miles, and by 63,000 miles, I was having to add a half-quart every time I filled up with fuel (~300 miles), and, toward the end, that wasn't even fully recovering the oil to the level it was previously on the dipstick. All in all, I added 5 quarts of oil while we were on the trip, and I normally wouldn't add any oil at all over 12-15,000 miles.

    So, after the car started billowing smoke off the exhaust manifolds every time we paused for a traffic light or stopped at a rest area, my wife said she wasn't going back to Alaska with it like that! We endured it across the mid-west, plains, and mountains to Pendleton, OR, where we were planning to stay for four days to visit family. While there, the Subaru dealer in Pasco, WA, was able to get it in on short notice. We dropped it at 0700, they had it diagnosed by 1000, and were on the road back to Pendleton at 1500 that same afternoon!

    Turns out that an oil pump seal was failing, and pushing pressurized oil into the cavity between the pump and the block. That was causing the main seal to come unseated, which is where the bulk of the oil was actually leaking from the engine. But, in the front center like that, it was dripping all over the exhaust and, frankly, the entire bottom of the car.

    They fixed the leak, cleaned up the bottom of the car, and sent me on my way! I paid for a new timing belt since they were already in there. They claimed the old belt had cracks, but I've had Subarus long enough to know that if you have to take the belt off, it's a good time to put a new one on, so they didn't need to convince me to buy it. I was out the door for $89.95 (cost of the T-belt).

    I had a couple other minor issues that I thought about bringing up "since it was there," but I was just thrilled to not be delayed in my trip! I still had over 3,000 miles to go!

    So, to the techs and Alex, the service writer, at McCurley Subaru, YOU GUYS ARE FANTASTIC!!!!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    I gotta quit reading the Subaru Crew posts here - making me scared to hang onto my Outback any longer. And feel free to write McCurley a service review.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    " more and more people are faced with a $10,000 repair bills on a $9,000 car"

    Define more and more people? Eight instead of four?

    I know you see throwaway cars in the future, but the above comment seems a real stretch shifty.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Shifty, I think of TVs, etc. in a similar way as modern cars. Overall they are much more reliable, so you have a good chance of a long life with just routine upkeep. But when something goes wrong, it can be dramatic and nearly impossible to track down and fix.

    the thought of something like a 10 YO Audi with a "brain" failure, never mind something simple like the trans or AWD gear, is terrifying.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not at all, Jip. Engine failures pretty much total any car with a retail value of $7500 bucks or less. People just quit.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The exception to the rule that engine failures total cheap cars are the tv shows where they buy an old wreck and " happen" to have a used matching motor sitting in the back room. They easily swap engines and it runs " perfect." Then they vacuum the rat crap out of the interior, paint the exterior and sell it for 30K.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    more and more people are faced with a $10,000 repair bills on a $9,000 car"

    Get an estimate to replace the transaxle, invertor and battery pack on a Toyota Prius, (or even any two of the three) for model years 2003 through 2008.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Must not fail too often; hard to find much info in a quick search. For parts, one outfit lists these prices:

    Inverter is $1,000
    Transaxle is $1,700
    Hybrid battery is $1,600 (MSRP is is $2,588 per Toyota)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Plus tax and labor--on a 2003 Prius, that's a total.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Well, you may toss (sell) the 2003 model year due to the age and overall wear and tear. The 2008 could be a fix it up and keep on truckin type of deal.

    My 1999 Regal I traded in, almost a year ago, developed an oil leak... not sure where. Probably a $500-$1,000 repair on a car worth about $2,000 private party.
    Could have kept or repaired, and kept on driving, but the handwriting was on the wall. That's pretty much the case with all cars entering their "golden years". Seems rare to see that type of issue in "middle age" cars.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    The labor estimate I saw for the battery pack swap was $900.

    Doesn't seem any worse than any other car of the era. The failure rates look good too - saw that the odds of an out of warranty battery pack failure were one in 40,000. (hybridcars.com)

    Of course hybrid tech is like fax machines. Been around forever, even if it took over 100 years for both to finally catch on. Faxes and EVs don't seem magical at all anymore.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    http://www.hybridcars.com/first-numbers-hybrid-battery-failure/

    That was from May 2008, and its not accurate.

    With more than 100,000 Honda hybrids on the road, the automaker told Newsweek that fewer than 200 had a battery fail after the warranty expired. That’s a 0.002 likelihood. Toyota says its out-of-warranty battery replacement rate is 0.003 percent—or one out of 40,000 Priuses

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-co- st-guide

    •2001-2003 Toyota Prius (1st generation) - $3,649 minus $1,350 "core credit"
    •2004-2008 Toyota Prius (2nd generation) - $3,649 minus $1,350 "core credit"
    •2009-present Toyota Prius (3rd generation) - $3,939 minus $1,350 "core credit"
    •Toyota Camry Hybrid - $3,541, core credit deducted
    •Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $4,848, core credit deducted


    BTW a good choice is a repair/rebuild of the battery assembly, but just because there is a youtube video of it does not mean you or anyone else should attempt it themselves.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZygEiXw5uE
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    So, around $2,600 tops for a Prius, probably cheaper if you find an outfit like this.

    What's the beef? You can easily pay twice that for a crate gasser engine. Note that your link says "the vast majority of owners will never incur the cost of a replacement unit."

    $3,500 is just 10 car payments.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    We weren't talking about the repairs that didn't happen, we were talking about when the repairs DO happen to someone. You are changing the argument and misdirecting its focus IMO.

    Besides, do you really think the average car owner is going to spend hours or days hunting for the best deals, and having parts shipped to a willing shop they researched for lowest labor prices?

    No, they call a tow truck, it goes to the dealer or their usual repair shop, or to Doc, and he gets quoted fair retail---which is often a *LOT OF MONEY* on a modern car that has a catastrophic failure.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Guess I'm with Jipster; just don't read about many $10,000 repair bills. Seems like the worst ones around SUVs rarely push $5,000. Do I need to skim the Fix or Trade discussion?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    Back when I had my '89 SHO, I read that a replacement engine was 12k.
    I traded it in not long after that.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    I'm afraid I've lost track of where this thread was going. The "Super High Output" would scare some people off (me) if it was on the lot as a trade-in. But if I was driving one - you mean it was just a matter of time until it blew up? Would be worrisome.

    Hm, Shifty has hopped up his MINI with a lot of expensive parts so I can see that point of view. Good money after bad.

    Met a guy yesterday who does body work so I asked him for a ballpark on getting some dings out of my minivan. He was agreeable since he had a Quest for a while himself and likes them. The ballpark was $1,800 to $2,000.

    My '99 with 194k is worth $500 to maybe $2,000 (it is a good runner).

    So my curiosity was satisfied but I didn't go any further. I dropped collision on it a while back knowing that it'd be totaled before any actual repair got done on it if I got in an accident. Maybe I'll hit Harbor Freight for some of those anvil things and a plunger and buy some Bondo and a rattle can of sliver paint, since my gluing sparkly things to it idea got shot down. :D

    Now, if my transmission goes and that's $2,000, I'd have to think pretty hard about fixing the van. $2,000 doesn't go near as far on a newer car as $12,000 would. And I know the strengths and foibles of my car. $4,000? - harder question.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2013
    you don't read about $10,000 repairs because nobody is crazy enough to do them! LOL!

    2014 cars aren't going to be like 2004 cars---I'm still going to put on my swami's hat and predict you will see more and more "used" cars in the year 2020 (6 years old let's say) with much higher repair bills and fewer people electing to fix them.

    An 8-speed electronically controlled automatic is not going to cost $2000 to repair.

    Doc, what say you?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Well, I do know one guy, but I borrowed his Suburban earlier this year and it's different from the one he rebuilt and drove for ~12 years (boy, this is a blast from the past - guy had a cabin up Talkeetna way btw):

    Stever@Edmunds, "High Mileage Suburbans" #9, 4 Mar 2008 10:58 pm

    Stever@Edmunds, "Chevy Suburban" #605, 10 Apr 2006 10:19 am
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    edited October 2013
    An 8-speed electronically controlled automatic is not going to cost $2000 to repair.

    Have you noticed fewer and fewer transmission shops lately? I have a guy I send the rebuilds to, and in turn he asks me to try and solve problems that a simple rebuild doesn't correct.

    A Sienna Mini-Van presented with multiple issues after the first transmission repair. The initial failure destroyed the overdrive, and TCC clutches as well as the forward clutch. Plus at 120K it had significant wear through out.

    During road testing after the rebuild it began feeling like it was trying to lock up in two gears and would abruptly lock and release the drive wheels. This is quite likely what killed the transmission in the first place. My testing found the PCM falsely commanding fifth gear and TCC during closed throttle. (Toyota does use the TCC for engine braking) Once that was identified and solved it still had false shift operation where it would randomly slam a down shift from third to second, and occasionally once hot (over 200f) neutralize at stops and then slam engage. I had quite a few hours of analization and testing to try and prove if the fault was electronic in nature or if this had to be strictly mechanical, such as a valve body issue or a mechanical issue with one or more of the control solenoids.

    With the rebuild of the tranny at close to $3000, the diagnostics and replacement of the PCM another $1100 that car is a wash, except it isn't completely fixed yet. Toyota didn't provide a means for actually pressure testing every clutch circuit, and every solenoid command circuit. They have literally left it up to the techs to come up with any way that we can to try and correct the condition. I think Eric is planning on replacing the valve body and solenoid pack. He had the transmission apart three times before he sent it to me to deal with the PCM issue for him. That's another $1000 and there is no reason to be confident that the problems will all be solved.

    My total time investment was some fifteen hours which I don't mind doing because it can make for some great case study training material, except in this case it didn't led to a measurable solution and that destroyed any potential value, at least for now.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The only sensible solution would seem to be pulling a transmission out of a wrecking yard and hope it works. Since fixing today's transmissions won't make sense in the future, the junkyards might be the only shot at getting back on the road.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    You don't even want to know how difficult it can be to figure out a problem that gets installed with the used part, and on top of that who pays for the additional labor to R&R again (and maybe again) before a satisfactory result is achieved.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Cheese and crackers ! I see it done on the reality car tv shows all the time. Easy out --- easy in. Are you telling me that in the real world it ain't that simple ? Please cardoc, say it ain't so.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Not to mention that sometimes that "used" part was also malfunctioning in the donor car, which is why that car was "retired" in the first place...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Exactly. The failure rate of a component in the "real world" is reflected in the failure rate you'll get from that same component in the junkyard.

    Even if you get a good deal on a used engine, on many cars today you have to face at least 20 hours labor to install it and sort it out. In California that's $2,700 in shop time, + the engine + fluids, belts, hoses, etc.

    So your car has to worth at least $7500 right off the bat--then you have to figure if you put $7500 into a car with 120,000 miles on it, where are you exactly?
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I prefer "motor" oil for my cars...haha.

    I got a coupon from the Kia dealership for an oil change and tire rotation today for $29. At bottom of coupon it says,"house oil only".

    Since oil specs is a slippery subject often discussed here, what are your thoughts on having house oil put in your car. I suppose it meets all manufacturers specs... just not name brand?
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Just ask what brand they use as house oil.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This week.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    When I think of 'house oil', I'm thinking 3in1.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Last time I went to Kia, I asked what type of oil they put in. I believe they said synthetic blend. What I was looking for was a brand, and assumed they put in some type of Kia equivalent to name brand.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    What exactly does synthetic, let alone synthetic blend mean in North America?

    As far as "house brand" goes, remember the link to an article written by Kevin M that I put up here a few weeks ago? Any wonder why some states had to make and start enforcing a law like that now?
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    Ask if you can bring your own oil. I have done that before, when I was in a position where I couldn't change my own.

    You might also ask if they use a torque wrench on the lug nuts when they rotate the tires. A bozo with an impact gun and 200 lbs of air pressure can warp a brake rotor faster than I can type this sentence.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    edited October 2013
    While you're at it ask them how long it's been since the wrench's calibration was checked.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I wonder if asking all these questions isn't a bit like poking the bear.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    I wonder if asking all these questions isn't a bit like poking the bear

    It is. Meanwhile if someone really feels like they need to ask such questions, why is it so hard for them to figure out that they are at the wrong shop?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    It is. Meanwhile if someone really feels like they need to ask such questions, why is it so hard for them to figure out that they are at the wrong shop?

    Your post, while only two short sentences, continues to support your believe that an auto tech (ANY auto tech) is superior in intelligence, judgement and even their memory is to be trusted more than ANY diligent car owner.

    Why do I say ANY auto tech? Because you haven't considered for a moment any of the cases where the so-called 'tech' made glaring errors on customer's cars who 'trusted' that the tech shop always did the correct repair and/or used the correct fluids.

    It's ridiculous..full stop, and I say this primarily because of your self-righteous "It is" statement about possibly upsetting the person working on your car.

    Doc...YOU may be competent, but your attitude here supports that you would side with ALL techs, (the good and the bad) before you would side with ANY auto owner who merely shows responsible ownership in hoping to ensure the tech is aware of the correct fluids for his or her car.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    As in all human run endeavors, there are a percentage of crooks, liars and cheats. The secretary who embezzles millions, the school officials who wire contracts to phony contractors, religious organizations that misuse funds etc. there seems to be an impression that you feel none of this criminal behavior exists in the auto repair business. Maybe I missed you posting this belief but the only thing I seem to hear from you is that you tend to give the tech the benefit of the doubt. You can't possibly exempt auto repair shops from the ever present human propensity for greed, corruption and self interest. We attempt to minimize this absolutely universal behavior with regulations and laws. It never eliminates the problem but at least we are trying.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Kudos to the tech who was doing an oil service on my MINI. As he backs off the rack, he "felt" something odd in the steering as he braked the car. Moving forward and braking again further aroused his curiosity.

    He asked another tech to watch the wheel and sure enough, it would move forward slightly after braking. Up on the rack, they found very badly worn lower control arm bushings, which I verified when I went down there.

    Naturally, being a MINI, the job is a) a real pain b) expensive c) and requires purchase of en entire bracket rather than just a bushing. The bushings CAN be pressed out, reamed, pressed in, etc, but by the time you spend all that labor, it's actually cheaper to just buy a new bracket and bushing pre-installed.

    So--my point---you CAN go for an oil change and end up facing a $600 repair bill, and it CAN all be on the up and up. Certainly, not every "OH LOOK WHAT WE FOUND" is a scam.

    If this were a chain store operation though, I would have been grilling these guys with a lot more suspicion. But since most scams involving "easy fixes", and since this shop has an excellent rep, I was in the "trust but verify" mode and quickly gave approval once I saw the damage for myself.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    We attempt to minimize this absolutely universal behavior with regulations and laws.

    So you're saying that government intervention reduces or even eliminates corruption?
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The key word is "attempt." I'm not happy with the system, but I prefer it to anarchy.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    edited October 2013
    So... I took the Wrangler to my local indie shop to have a starting issue looked at(long crank times when cold, FWIW). The shop wanted me to leave it overnight so they could have a fuel pressure gauge on the rail during a dead cold start- no problem. The next morning I get a phone call- a new tech started the car and let the clutch out while it was in gear. Jeep- meet wall...
    By 10:00 AM their carrier had called and set up the repair(the LF fender had a healthy kink) with a local body shop. The adjuster offered me a rental but I told him that I didn't need one. Less than a week later the Wrangler was back in the driveway and the fender repair was undetectable(I also found out my shop insisted that the body shop check the alignment before it was returned to make sure everything was perfect) .

    And the cranking issue? A dying fuel pump. I also ended up having them also install a new fuel tank skid plate and mounting straps as the originals were almost totally rusted through. Throw in an oil and coolant change and the bill was a bit steep- but I'm now confident that the Wrangler will be ready to go if we actually do get the bad winter many are predicting.

    And yes, I'll continue to use that shop...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    The key word is "attempt." I'm not happy with the system, but I prefer it to anarchy.

    There is little to no regulation in the auto repair trade. The few states that have it do a really go job of making a joke out of it, Michigan is a prime example of this. http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-49534_50301---,00.html

    Why don't quick lubes (and places like Walmart) in Michigan need to be licensed, or employ certified techs?

    How does the system protect the consumers from people who failed as professional technicians from opening up a back alley business?
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I would have expected the dealership to give a discount on the repair and maintenance. They did run your car into a wall. You may get a lower price at sale or trade in, as now car has been in an accident. Also, the inconvenience of dealing with the matter.

    But.. they did put your oil cap back on after the oil chamge, so call it a wash. :-)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I guess I was thinking that the only consequence for illegal behavior in auto repair was criminal prosecution. Sounds like the auto repair business is unregulated --- folks who steal and cheat in many endeavors reopen under another name. Why not, only a small percentage actually get caught and only a small percentage of them actually get convicted.
    Consumer fraud is big business and I sure don't have an answer or a solution. I almost lost a 71 Nova to a scam consignment organization. Seems like I got the last cashable check for my car. I saw the guy a year later at the racetrack doing fine and betting on the ponies.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    All they did was R&R the fender and paint it; no panel-beating or welding. And of course it won't show up on Carfax. If anyone asks I'll tell them, but on a 1999 Wrangler I think that a single bent fender is a non-issue...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

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