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Yea they used to come to your house with a suitcase of tubes from which they could swap and try to see if that fixed "the problem". If a tube was plugged in and you didn't see it start glowing, it would be easy to recognize if there was a power or ground issue with that tube socket, that's when they loaded the console up in the car and took it back to the shop. If swapping tubes didn't fix the problem, then it was typically back to the shop too.
People caught on and they starting finding out that they could buy tubes and try to fix the sets themselves. Suddenly a large portion of the easier work disappeared, and they were only left with the more difficult stuff. With a lower number of repairs, in order to survive they had to make all of their living off of what was coming in the door and that forced the pricing on what they still did to climb, and the rest is history. Now if you have a problem with a TV, most people throw it away and buy a new one.
The same goes for washers, driers, and just about any other appliance we have in our homes.
and the vac and sew place
We lost our sewing place about two years ago. We still have a Vac Shop.
Modern day sets are so much more reliable than the old tube type sets. I have a 15+ year old 32 inch Panasonic (picture tube type) that has never given me a ounce of trouble (all solid state except for the picture tube and maybe the high voltage supply for the tube).
Last set I had problems was with a 19 inch RCA that I bought for one of my kids when they went off to college. When it wouldn't turn on, after some basic troubleshooting and reflowing of solder joints, I tossed it. It wasn't worth paying any money to try and get it fixed.
Also, TV sets nowadays are much cheaper, than they were 20 or 30 years ago - more so when inflation is taken into account. When you can buy a new 32" flat screen for under $200, why pay anything to try and repair one that's not working. The same cannot be said of cars.
I doubt they do much repair at all on out of warranty sets, unless they fall in the ultra-expensive range. Otherwise, it doesn't pay to spend the effort to fix a broken flat screen that can be replaced for just a few hundred bucks.
You're right, though, that cars aren't exactly "throw away" times like 5 year old TV sets, but more and more people are faced with $10,000 repair bills on $9000 cars.
Every once in a while someone will call and ask if I'll still work on a tube type amplifier.
http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Marshall-Amps
Most of the time they have already been throwing tubes at it and they need someone who can trouble-shoot the chassis. Fixing them helps keep all the skills just a little sharper....
Last set I had problems was with a 19 inch RCA that I bought for one of my kids when they went off to college. When it wouldn't turn on, after some basic troubleshooting and reflowing of solder joints, I tossed it. It wasn't worth paying any money to try and get it fixed.
Yea, those were the days. I still have my screen grid convergence driver. My 25" Mitsubishi lost the flyback transformer once and developed fractured solder joints to the blue and green guns. I gotta laugh its been given away three times and each time its been used for six months to a year and then returned when the "borrower" could finally get a new set. Anyone want it? VBG
When you can buy a new 32" flat screen for under $200, why pay anything to try and repair one that's not working. The same cannot be said of cars
The tools that I have that helped me fix TV's came with my education in electronics that I got back in the early 80's, they cost about a grand in total back then. I spend that much every month on software updates that are essentially rented today for the cars and the rest of my tools cost me over 1/4 mil.
Makes sense to me! My family just recently finished up our 12,641 mile trans-continental trip, and we ended up having an oil leak on our Subaru Forester that developed in the eastern US. It went from being a "huh; I think the oil level is dropping a little" concern to a "WHOA! WTF?!" issue over the course of about 1,000 miles. I first felt a concern about it at around 60,000 miles, and by 63,000 miles, I was having to add a half-quart every time I filled up with fuel (~300 miles), and, toward the end, that wasn't even fully recovering the oil to the level it was previously on the dipstick. All in all, I added 5 quarts of oil while we were on the trip, and I normally wouldn't add any oil at all over 12-15,000 miles.
So, after the car started billowing smoke off the exhaust manifolds every time we paused for a traffic light or stopped at a rest area, my wife said she wasn't going back to Alaska with it like that! We endured it across the mid-west, plains, and mountains to Pendleton, OR, where we were planning to stay for four days to visit family. While there, the Subaru dealer in Pasco, WA, was able to get it in on short notice. We dropped it at 0700, they had it diagnosed by 1000, and were on the road back to Pendleton at 1500 that same afternoon!
Turns out that an oil pump seal was failing, and pushing pressurized oil into the cavity between the pump and the block. That was causing the main seal to come unseated, which is where the bulk of the oil was actually leaking from the engine. But, in the front center like that, it was dripping all over the exhaust and, frankly, the entire bottom of the car.
They fixed the leak, cleaned up the bottom of the car, and sent me on my way! I paid for a new timing belt since they were already in there. They claimed the old belt had cracks, but I've had Subarus long enough to know that if you have to take the belt off, it's a good time to put a new one on, so they didn't need to convince me to buy it. I was out the door for $89.95 (cost of the T-belt).
I had a couple other minor issues that I thought about bringing up "since it was there," but I was just thrilled to not be delayed in my trip! I still had over 3,000 miles to go!
So, to the techs and Alex, the service writer, at McCurley Subaru, YOU GUYS ARE FANTASTIC!!!!
Define more and more people? Eight instead of four?
I know you see throwaway cars in the future, but the above comment seems a real stretch shifty.
the thought of something like a 10 YO Audi with a "brain" failure, never mind something simple like the trans or AWD gear, is terrifying.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Get an estimate to replace the transaxle, invertor and battery pack on a Toyota Prius, (or even any two of the three) for model years 2003 through 2008.
Inverter is $1,000
Transaxle is $1,700
Hybrid battery is $1,600 (MSRP is is $2,588 per Toyota)
My 1999 Regal I traded in, almost a year ago, developed an oil leak... not sure where. Probably a $500-$1,000 repair on a car worth about $2,000 private party.
Could have kept or repaired, and kept on driving, but the handwriting was on the wall. That's pretty much the case with all cars entering their "golden years". Seems rare to see that type of issue in "middle age" cars.
Doesn't seem any worse than any other car of the era. The failure rates look good too - saw that the odds of an out of warranty battery pack failure were one in 40,000. (hybridcars.com)
Of course hybrid tech is like fax machines. Been around forever, even if it took over 100 years for both to finally catch on. Faxes and EVs don't seem magical at all anymore.
That was from May 2008, and its not accurate.
With more than 100,000 Honda hybrids on the road, the automaker told Newsweek that fewer than 200 had a battery fail after the warranty expired. That’s a 0.002 likelihood. Toyota says its out-of-warranty battery replacement rate is 0.003 percent—or one out of 40,000 Priuses
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-co- st-guide
•2001-2003 Toyota Prius (1st generation) - $3,649 minus $1,350 "core credit"
•2004-2008 Toyota Prius (2nd generation) - $3,649 minus $1,350 "core credit"
•2009-present Toyota Prius (3rd generation) - $3,939 minus $1,350 "core credit"
•Toyota Camry Hybrid - $3,541, core credit deducted
•Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $4,848, core credit deducted
BTW a good choice is a repair/rebuild of the battery assembly, but just because there is a youtube video of it does not mean you or anyone else should attempt it themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZygEiXw5uE
What's the beef? You can easily pay twice that for a crate gasser engine. Note that your link says "the vast majority of owners will never incur the cost of a replacement unit."
$3,500 is just 10 car payments.
Besides, do you really think the average car owner is going to spend hours or days hunting for the best deals, and having parts shipped to a willing shop they researched for lowest labor prices?
No, they call a tow truck, it goes to the dealer or their usual repair shop, or to Doc, and he gets quoted fair retail---which is often a *LOT OF MONEY* on a modern car that has a catastrophic failure.
I traded it in not long after that.
Hm, Shifty has hopped up his MINI with a lot of expensive parts so I can see that point of view. Good money after bad.
Met a guy yesterday who does body work so I asked him for a ballpark on getting some dings out of my minivan. He was agreeable since he had a Quest for a while himself and likes them. The ballpark was $1,800 to $2,000.
My '99 with 194k is worth $500 to maybe $2,000 (it is a good runner).
So my curiosity was satisfied but I didn't go any further. I dropped collision on it a while back knowing that it'd be totaled before any actual repair got done on it if I got in an accident. Maybe I'll hit Harbor Freight for some of those anvil things and a plunger and buy some Bondo and a rattle can of sliver paint, since my gluing sparkly things to it idea got shot down.
Now, if my transmission goes and that's $2,000, I'd have to think pretty hard about fixing the van. $2,000 doesn't go near as far on a newer car as $12,000 would. And I know the strengths and foibles of my car. $4,000? - harder question.
2014 cars aren't going to be like 2004 cars---I'm still going to put on my swami's hat and predict you will see more and more "used" cars in the year 2020 (6 years old let's say) with much higher repair bills and fewer people electing to fix them.
An 8-speed electronically controlled automatic is not going to cost $2000 to repair.
Doc, what say you?
Stever@Edmunds, "High Mileage Suburbans" #9, 4 Mar 2008 10:58 pm
Stever@Edmunds, "Chevy Suburban" #605, 10 Apr 2006 10:19 am
Have you noticed fewer and fewer transmission shops lately? I have a guy I send the rebuilds to, and in turn he asks me to try and solve problems that a simple rebuild doesn't correct.
A Sienna Mini-Van presented with multiple issues after the first transmission repair. The initial failure destroyed the overdrive, and TCC clutches as well as the forward clutch. Plus at 120K it had significant wear through out.
During road testing after the rebuild it began feeling like it was trying to lock up in two gears and would abruptly lock and release the drive wheels. This is quite likely what killed the transmission in the first place. My testing found the PCM falsely commanding fifth gear and TCC during closed throttle. (Toyota does use the TCC for engine braking) Once that was identified and solved it still had false shift operation where it would randomly slam a down shift from third to second, and occasionally once hot (over 200f) neutralize at stops and then slam engage. I had quite a few hours of analization and testing to try and prove if the fault was electronic in nature or if this had to be strictly mechanical, such as a valve body issue or a mechanical issue with one or more of the control solenoids.
With the rebuild of the tranny at close to $3000, the diagnostics and replacement of the PCM another $1100 that car is a wash, except it isn't completely fixed yet. Toyota didn't provide a means for actually pressure testing every clutch circuit, and every solenoid command circuit. They have literally left it up to the techs to come up with any way that we can to try and correct the condition. I think Eric is planning on replacing the valve body and solenoid pack. He had the transmission apart three times before he sent it to me to deal with the PCM issue for him. That's another $1000 and there is no reason to be confident that the problems will all be solved.
My total time investment was some fifteen hours which I don't mind doing because it can make for some great case study training material, except in this case it didn't led to a measurable solution and that destroyed any potential value, at least for now.
Even if you get a good deal on a used engine, on many cars today you have to face at least 20 hours labor to install it and sort it out. In California that's $2,700 in shop time, + the engine + fluids, belts, hoses, etc.
So your car has to worth at least $7500 right off the bat--then you have to figure if you put $7500 into a car with 120,000 miles on it, where are you exactly?
I got a coupon from the Kia dealership for an oil change and tire rotation today for $29. At bottom of coupon it says,"house oil only".
Since oil specs is a slippery subject often discussed here, what are your thoughts on having house oil put in your car. I suppose it meets all manufacturers specs... just not name brand?
As far as "house brand" goes, remember the link to an article written by Kevin M that I put up here a few weeks ago? Any wonder why some states had to make and start enforcing a law like that now?
You might also ask if they use a torque wrench on the lug nuts when they rotate the tires. A bozo with an impact gun and 200 lbs of air pressure can warp a brake rotor faster than I can type this sentence.
It is. Meanwhile if someone really feels like they need to ask such questions, why is it so hard for them to figure out that they are at the wrong shop?
Your post, while only two short sentences, continues to support your believe that an auto tech (ANY auto tech) is superior in intelligence, judgement and even their memory is to be trusted more than ANY diligent car owner.
Why do I say ANY auto tech? Because you haven't considered for a moment any of the cases where the so-called 'tech' made glaring errors on customer's cars who 'trusted' that the tech shop always did the correct repair and/or used the correct fluids.
It's ridiculous..full stop, and I say this primarily because of your self-righteous "It is" statement about possibly upsetting the person working on your car.
Doc...YOU may be competent, but your attitude here supports that you would side with ALL techs, (the good and the bad) before you would side with ANY auto owner who merely shows responsible ownership in hoping to ensure the tech is aware of the correct fluids for his or her car.
He asked another tech to watch the wheel and sure enough, it would move forward slightly after braking. Up on the rack, they found very badly worn lower control arm bushings, which I verified when I went down there.
Naturally, being a MINI, the job is a) a real pain b) expensive c) and requires purchase of en entire bracket rather than just a bushing. The bushings CAN be pressed out, reamed, pressed in, etc, but by the time you spend all that labor, it's actually cheaper to just buy a new bracket and bushing pre-installed.
So--my point---you CAN go for an oil change and end up facing a $600 repair bill, and it CAN all be on the up and up. Certainly, not every "OH LOOK WHAT WE FOUND" is a scam.
If this were a chain store operation though, I would have been grilling these guys with a lot more suspicion. But since most scams involving "easy fixes", and since this shop has an excellent rep, I was in the "trust but verify" mode and quickly gave approval once I saw the damage for myself.
So you're saying that government intervention reduces or even eliminates corruption?
By 10:00 AM their carrier had called and set up the repair(the LF fender had a healthy kink) with a local body shop. The adjuster offered me a rental but I told him that I didn't need one. Less than a week later the Wrangler was back in the driveway and the fender repair was undetectable(I also found out my shop insisted that the body shop check the alignment before it was returned to make sure everything was perfect) .
And the cranking issue? A dying fuel pump. I also ended up having them also install a new fuel tank skid plate and mounting straps as the originals were almost totally rusted through. Throw in an oil and coolant change and the bill was a bit steep- but I'm now confident that the Wrangler will be ready to go if we actually do get the bad winter many are predicting.
And yes, I'll continue to use that shop...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
There is little to no regulation in the auto repair trade. The few states that have it do a really go job of making a joke out of it, Michigan is a prime example of this. http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-49534_50301---,00.html
Why don't quick lubes (and places like Walmart) in Michigan need to be licensed, or employ certified techs?
How does the system protect the consumers from people who failed as professional technicians from opening up a back alley business?
But.. they did put your oil cap back on after the oil chamge, so call it a wash. :-)
Consumer fraud is big business and I sure don't have an answer or a solution. I almost lost a 71 Nova to a scam consignment organization. Seems like I got the last cashable check for my car. I saw the guy a year later at the racetrack doing fine and betting on the ponies.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive