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2013 C-Max
Looks like it is time to devote a thread to the new 2013 C-Max.
The Hybrid sounds good. The Plug in with about eqiv. 100 MPG sounds spectacular!
A $3750 tax credit on the Plug-In sure adds to my interest.
I've not had a chance to see, touch or feel the new C-Max. Have You?
Please update us all with what you have learned.
The Hybrid sounds good. The Plug in with about eqiv. 100 MPG sounds spectacular!
A $3750 tax credit on the Plug-In sure adds to my interest.
I've not had a chance to see, touch or feel the new C-Max. Have You?
Please update us all with what you have learned.
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My current ride is a Pontiac Vibe and the CMax looks slighty shorter and a bit taller. I am 6-2 and entry was easy. Seating is high. The look from the drivers seat is like a small minivan, with a lot of expanse of dashboard.
Initial impression of the ride was very good. Extremely quite, could not tell if in EV or engine powered. Has some sort of noise cancelling feature. Seems to work well. Overall it handled well, but did not try any hard accelerations or tight turns.
I did not have time to fool around with the dash displays. Will take a lot of reading from the manual to figure them all out, personalize and then use the ones that are most useful. Steering wheel has 4 pods of controls - 2 for the dash display, 1 for cruise and 1 for phone/entertainment controls. Again did not fool with them.
This was a loaded SEL and had the sunroof. It is fixed sunroof and has an electric powered shade to block/let in the sun. No open air motoring.
The foot under the rear bumper to open the rear hatch works both to open and close. Being a golfer, one side of the rear seat will have to be down to fit a golf bag. Has some storage bins at the feet of the rear seat passengers and in the back hatch area above the battery.
Until one of their units come in and is available for a more extensive drive, that is about it.
I wanted to do the lease because I know next year they will have a bigger / better one that we may decide purchase or we can look at the trading it in on the Focus electric.
We traded in a Nissan Altima and with a down payment we got the monthly payment down below $350.
The dealer was knowledgeable about the vehicle and did a good job with our trade-in / deal.
Great Ride, extremely quite and solid, quick to charge at home about 5 hrs on wall power (110v) or about 2.5 on level 2 (240v) from empty to full (20 mile all electric with a full charge).
After a week of driving we are getting 75 mpg as an average, we were getting 999.9 but had to take in two trips and use the ICE (you cannot hear or feel it kick on) the only way we knew it was on was by the left gauge / panel showing that it was on.
We have used a public level 2 charger at a local Walgreens and in 40 min got a 25% boost to the battery.
No complaints yet but a couple of things that I would have done differently:
1. No coasting re-gen to the battery it does have a braking re-gen but must be in gear for it to work.
2. The shift lever for the automatic transmission will not go from drive to neutral without first pressing the unlock button on the shift lever (no coasting re-gen so I just put it in neutral going down hills to hyper-mile) this is probably a "safety feature".
3. The navigation screen is just too busy for us so we leave it off and I wonder why they used Mapquest instead of Google maps. Anyway we have a TomTom that works well.
4. The MyFord Mobile app does not work, I will be calling Ford Support to see what needs to be done.
We were every close to getting the 2012 Prius but the kicker was the Toyota could not be sold without the $400 carpeted floor mats no alloy wheels and leather seats would need to be locally installed (not factory) but leather seats alloy wheels and floor mats were standard on the Ford.
Ford says this car should go over 30 miles on the batery, so why did the last post say they only get 20 miles on a full charge? Is this the case of 'Actual Mileage May Vary'?
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My Wife only drives 15mi a day during the week so it does not bother us what the gauge says.
I purchased a GE charger at HomeDepot for 800.00 and had it installed for less than $200 but we hardly ever use it. We only do if we plan to go out after we get home, we will plug it in for a quick 1 or 2 hr boost and then we go out.
The 120v adapter that comes with the Energi works fine over night it gets a full charge in about 4hrs since we rarely get it out of electric mode or "EV mode" (except on the weekends).
In Auto EV mode after the Hybrid battery is empty it will work just like a normal Hybrid: ICE off at stop lights, regenerative braking will keep the battery charged enough that it will usually get to 35 mph or so before the ICE kicks back on. It is hard to know when the ICE kicks on so we keep it on the "Engage" display so you can see when it is running (the ICE shows as a white graph, battery as green).
I have calculated a little over 40mpg with just the ICE. Combined we get about 90 to 100 until the weekends when we get it down to 70 to 80.
I have used a charging station at Walgreen's (most all have one).
If you can plug it in to 120v at work that might be an option.
Our Electric bill has gone up $10 a month.
We finally used the 1st tank of gas after 30 days of ownership and over 1000 miles.
I still cannot believe we bought a Ford, it's funny how many Ford drivers come up to us and ask "What is that?" and lots of OO's and AW's after explaining it to them.
Enjoy your new C-Max Energi.
Also use the Empower Gauge mode so it will show when the gas engine will kick in so you can easy up on the accelerator.
Right now I'm on my 2nd tank of gas (bought it on 11/18/2012) and my lifetime MPG is about 72 and my MPG for my 2nd tank is about 70 MPG.
It had to be set on ours (it was not the default when we got it).
With all the complaints about the hybrid model not getting the MPG people wanted I decided to do a test on our Energi it is a little heavier than the hybrid but all I had to test with.
I drove 50 interstate miles on ECO cruise and got 48mpg.
Simple test I know but it gave me piece of mind about the MPG issues.
It was 64o when I tryed this (I don't know if temp makes any difference at all).
Try it yourself if you can:
Put the EV mode (mode cannot be changed if the Battery has been depleted) in EV later (if you have a full charge it will go 2 miles in full EV mode to burn off the charge, I guess it is to prevent over charging the battery?) after 2 miles (when it kicked out of EV mode and the ICE kicked on) I pulled over and shut if off / restarted and check that it was still in EV later mode, accelerated to 62 MPH and set the cruise, I had to use the + and - buttons a little with some traffic I did not use the brakes and after 50 miles I pulled over and shut it off and it showed 48 MPG for the trip.
My wife let me drive it two weeks on my commute (40 miles each way) 80 miles per day (I can and did charge 110 at work) I used the ECO cruise as much as I could but it did finally go below 80 MPG.
3000 miles now on it used 42 gallons of gas (about 3 tank fulls) and a little better than 70mpg. It will start going up now since the wife has it back, she drives 15 miles all electric per day.
My Focus Electric will be here Feb 26th!
Still good of course, but only a couple of MPGs better than what a regular Prius will get. My main issue with plug-in type hybrids is that I don't trust that their batteries will last as long as a regular Prius hybrid battery, which has proven itself to last hundreds of thousands of miles.
Of course it really depends on how a person travels. If it's a lot of short trips, then a plug in would be more efficient, but if person takes a lot of long trips, then probably not. And again the different battery type on plug-ins makes me nervous until they have a longer track record.
Just my opinion...
I don't worry about the battery it has an 8 year warranty, I will not have the car that long.
Toyota's are nice, but the Ford seems to be a much better fit for our use.
The Energi was been in full EV mode all this week since the wife is driving it (15 mi a day) and creeping back to 80 mpg again...
My on board fuel economy calculator has never shown an average of more than 45 mpg.... Even when it is running in EV Now. I reset it once too.... No affect. This number is some sort of estimate based purely on the gasoline you've consumed. According to the EPA testing Ford did, this car was supposed to get 43 mpg in ICE mode after the battery is used up. I barely get that with the battery miles included.
BTW... The manual says that it runs the ICE for a short time to warm up the emissions system. The heat for the cabin temp is nice too.
I think your are missing the point of an PHEV.
The main advantage of a plug-in (or full electric) car is about helping the US get off of foreign oil.
That is why our government gives you a tax rebate when you purchase one and gives business (and home owners) tax breaks for purchasing and installing EV chargers.
Not only does importing less oil help the US financially since we spend billions of (what 80? or more) dollars each year to protect the oil supply in the middle east it also helps keep less tankers on the ocean, that means less shipwrecks and that means less pollution of the oceans and beaches.
Electricity (free or paid for) makes a much better fuel for vehicle propulsion than gasoline since more than half of the energy produced by burning gas is lost as heat and that with the exhaust gases released helps to warm our planet.
I know that coal is not much better when burned to produce electricity but coal does not need to be imported it is mined right here.
Personally I would rather pay the extra $10 a month in our higher electricity bill to a US company rather than give it to a foreign country (friendly or not).
I think that EVs and hybrids are a great tool to help the US get off of imported oil and I hope Ford (and other auto companies) continue on this path with more fuel efficient vehicles in the future whether they are electric, fuel cell or something else.
I had not considered a domestic made vehicle for years but The C-Max Energi brought me back.
So let me respond to you....
I do not know why your fuel mileage is so bad, but from reading your posts you seem impatient, I don’t know if that affects your driving habits (excessive speed, fast starts and stops) and I am pretty sure the cold has a lot to do with it. I am in the south east, we have had two evenings that the temp got down below freezing here so far this winter.
I guess I am confused you stated you got 43 mpg on 444 miles in winter driving and since you only got 38 in winter driving with your TDI, that sounds like an improvement to me.
Even though diesel fuel mileage is actually higher than gasoline fuel mileage. If you can get 30 mpg on gas you can get 40 with a diesel equivalent but it does not burn as clean as gas, it costs more and it stinks.
You also stated that you have a 45 overall with the C-max when you got an average of 40 in your TDI. Still that sounds like and improvement so again I am confused.
Have you used the ECO cruise or did you just change the setting? Using it has changed the MPG’s greatly for me when I was doing interstate driving with the C-max. I had calculated about 40 mpg on just the ICE before setting and using it and have gotten up to 48 mpg using the ECO cruise (in my 50 mile test run).
Did you turn off the “Braking Coach”? If you did turn it off I would turn it back on. It helps you adjust your braking to get more return to the battery. You have to use gentle pressure on the brake pedal to get the best results then when you come to a complete stop it will show you how much energy was returned to the battery. The battery display will show you when you are getting regen, if you press the pedal harder it engages the brakes and your score will go down.
My wife had a hard time getting used to it, she cannot judge distance’s well but with the braking coach she is getting better (97% up from 65%).
That energy can then be used to power the vehicle and improve your mpg’s.
Are you using the Engage or the Empower displays? They will show you in real time what the EV and ICE power modes are doing. EV is blue and ICE is white it will show you when the ICE will engage according to how much you are accelerating.
I have never seen the “100 mpg as advertised” that you are talking about, you had also mentioned earlier something about a “30 mile all electric range” again I have never seen that either.
You should call Ford (I am pretty sure they have an 800 number) and ask them why the electricity is not factored into the mpg rating (I do not know).
You might also see what they would recommend to improve your winter mileage. I used to live in Maine and had an electric block heater on an old Dodge it would keep the oil heated enough that the engine would turn over when it was very cold, plus it improved the mileage because the choke did not need to run as long since the engine was already warm.
If you will look around on the internet you can find people that swear by them in cold climates. That might be an easy fix for your mileage problems.
But you need to make your own decisions that way you will not blame others for what you do not know or understand, good luck.
I appreciate your recommendations.... I use the ECO Cruise when I have the occasion to do so, but most of my travel is to and from work on a divided highway with a speed limit of 40 and lots of stop lights. As far as the braking coach, I have that on and my score is 96% over the first 700 miles. I use the Empower display most of the time because it makes it easier to adjust the amount of accelerator to use to stay below the threshold that switches to the ICE. Early on when I suggested this vehicle had a 30 mile range, I had it confused with the Volt. I did more research and found Ford claims up to 21 miles on a full charge. 43 mpg is great, but on this car it's not real because it doesn't account for the electricity costs to charge the battery. If I exclude the electric and regen miles, it gets about 23 mpg on the ICE. That is pitiful for a 2.0L Atkinson cycle ICE when the hybrid Escape was rated about 31 city. I do appreciate the recommendation for an engine block heater. I can see how that would help with the warmup from home, which would help with half the warmups. I will call Ford and see if they have any other suggestions to improve cold climate performance. I'm definitely looking forward to warmer weather and better fuel economy as a result.
For example, how do you compare a plug-in Prius to a plug-in C-Max since you'll never know how many miles are based on electricity only from an outlet versus how many miles are from using the engine.
That's why the EPA came up with the MPGe sticker:
Dual Fuel:
All Electric Vehicle:
I did consider the Leaf but ordered a Ford Focus Electric that will be here Feb 26th to March 12th! My Commute is 80 miles per day.
The EPA / Department of Energy came up with an MPGe rating to compare electric vehicles. link title.
But once you throw in the plug-in factor it will be pretty much impossible for one plug-in owner to compare real-world numbers to someone else because not only do you need to factor in the type of driving (highway/city), but then how many of those miles are from plug-in power and how much more the electric bill cost for those miles.
I guess in the end we'll just to have to rely on EPA estimates, but was we can see with the C-Max Hybrid vs the Prius V, while the EPA lists the C-Max with better MPG, Consumer Reports found that in real-world driving the Prius V is better. But I think the days of going to someplace like fuelseconomy.gov or here on Edmunds to post your real-world MPG figures for comparison aren't practical with plug-ins.
When you compare yourself to other drivers, you are comparing non equivalents.
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If you drive to work 225 days/year, that means you saved $141.75 (0.63x225) per year on the commute. Outside of the commute, lets say you drive 5000 per year on vacations with mostly highway driving. In a TDI you could probably average 45-50mpg at 75 mph highway cruising, while in the C-Max only 35-45mpg at 75mph highway cruising, depending on the climate...it really varies. But as an estimate, you'd probably save between $50-150 in gas driving the TDI on long highway trips as compared to the C-Max.
If you combine the C-Max's $142 savings in the commute vs $75 loss on long highway trips, now we're at about $70 in gas savings with the C-Max Energi over the TDI per year.
So then the question comes down to the cost of the C-Max Energi vs TDI to see if it's really worth it?
I own a Gen II Prius and averge in the mid to upper 40s MPG all year round (mid 40s in Ohio winter, upper 40s in spring/summer/fall and on long road trips).
I think the bottom line will be on driving habits:
If you live in places were it's really cold 1/2 the year, a diesel is better
In moderate climates get a regular hybrid, unless you do 90% of your driving at 75mph+ highway speeds, then a TDI would be better.
If the car only does short trips between charges, then get a full electric or plug-in. Full electric would be best commute/local car if you have another car for the long road trips.
Thanks, John
It is not just an extension cord.
Think of it as switch that sends power to the vehicle as it requests it, the car has the charger built-in.
It does have a standard J1772 connector.
It can be used with all J1772 compatible EV vehicles.
You can also purchase a 240v Level 2 power "charger" at Homedepot and have it professionally installed and it will cut the charge time in half about $800 and another $200 for installation (depends on your local labor rates).
Empty to full on 120 = about 7 hrs.
Empty to full on 240 = about 2.5hrs.
Home Depot kits off their internet site here in central CA are running about $850 + 9% tax, the Leviton and GE versions are the same.
My plan at this point is to sink a few thousand into a 2kw grid tied solar system, and see what transpires with the 2014 Cmax and pricing. May be a bargain 2013 showing up.
John
As another comparison, with my Prius your commute savings would be about $200/year. That’s with getting 46mpg in the Prius average both ways. On top of that would be the better highway MPG in the Prius for road trips that would probably cancel out the advantage of the plug in electricity savings.
Again though, it depends on driving style. If you’re using the plug-in C-Max for short trips most of the time you might be better off. Let’s say you’re getting $0.02/mile for 50% of your driving from the plug-in(and that’s generous since the Leaf users average $0.035/mile) and $0.09/mile in hybrid mode (avg 38mpg @$3.5/gal) and you drive 10,000 miles per year, then you’d pay $550 for those 10,000 miles.
A regular Prius getting $0.07/mile (48mpg @$3.50/gal) would cost you $700 for the same 10,000 miles driven, so you’d save $150 per year with the C-Max Energi, but the C-Max Energi costs about $5000 more than a regular Prius, so that’s a 33 year payback time. Now if you drove 90% of the 10,000 miles using plug-in power, that would cost $270 in the C-Max Energi to drive the 10,000 miles, or $430 less than the Prius. With a $5000 price difference you’re looking at an 11 year payback time. Of course even then you’d have to figure that with the very high quality and proven reliability of the Prius, over 11 years of driving you’d have more repair costs in the Ford C-Max.
Anyway, a lot of factors to consider. Let us know when you can calculate the increased electricity cost from plugging in your C-Max Energi. What's really needed is a cost per mile comparison versus an MPG comparison.
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/06/02/ford-hybrid-vehicle-sales-break-full-year- -record-in-first-five-months-of-2013/
The data is from EPA and looks like a great way to compare mileage since they have used the same formula to compare them. It lists costs to drive 25 miles and an average yearly fuel costs.
They even have the toyota privius listed so you can compare the costs.
Wikipedia MPGe
I'm also looking at the CMax, but I'll wait a bit more to let any issues come out. I remember the first gen Volt cable issues, and the first gen Leaf onboard charger weakness. With these cars, they are inventing as they go.
John
Thanks,
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