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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes the automakers seem to have run the full gambit on how to treat unions---from actually beating them to death with baseball bats to giving away the store. One would think somewhere in the middle would have been nice. :P

    I don't know that we could call the Big 3's downfall 'sudden' but they have had some pretty hard drops on the roller-coaster of market share. The years 1977-82 and from 1996 to now have not been pretty.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited May 2013
    > Welcome to Romper Room.

    Recently I was ridiculed for having used the common colloquial phrase with the pronoun "everyone" instead of "a few" or "some." I didn't realize I was writing a thesis. :blush:

    It's getting rough. :cry:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The problem is the perp of those power plays for benefits that are unsustainable was given part of the company and retained their power over the company in the reorganization by the government.

    I agree with much of your analysis, but it wasn't exactly like the unions didn't lose anything in the restructuring...

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/18/business/la-fi-economy-wages-20111218

    At the end of the day, I'm not all that sure the union's "clamping" hand on the manufacturers' throats is as quite as tight as some might wish to see, or as dictating as others might wish to think.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    If "they" voted for Toyota and Honda over GM, we're going to have to believe that they know something.

    Absolutely true that when people vote with their wallets it means a lot.

    That is the problem with politicians, they vote with other peoples money. They spend YOUR money on 7,500 dollar tax credits for cars no one wants, and on many other things they would NEVER be willing to spend their own money on.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Management was absolutely complicit in any pension/health care packages that came to burden GM.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Management was absolutely complicit in any pension/health care packages that came to burden GM.

    Yes. I recall reading somewhere, maybe in Bob Lutz's book, that a specific negotiation with GM found little resistance from GM management to the wants of the UAW, and that started the gift of unsustainable perks rolling. I am hesitant to guess from memory so I won't be critized for being wrong, but it seems it was 1991 or so that was mentioned.

    Maybe someone else knows what I read and where.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    My grandad used to say people were a lot like cattle... They like to be herded... At my age, I think he was much more accurate in his judgment than he knew.

    I think you're right...


    That may be true for a $20 blender, or even a $250 Vacuum, but I don't think it applies to a $25,000 new car.

    I would think the amount of time, thought, and research goes up with the purchase price.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    You can be very worthy and still die quickly in the automobile business.

    Or the very unworthy die extremely slowly, repeatedly, or not at all thanks to bailouts in the automobile business.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Someone else said something to this effect a few posts back... Capitalism earns the profits, but the costs get paid by socialism.


    I would think the rich would characterize that as the smart get to earn the profits, and the dumb get to pay for the losses.

    Maybe they'd say the rich get to pocket the profits, and the poor get to pay for their losses.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Frankly, I think D3 problems went beyond the UAW. The union is definitely complicit, but for many years Detroit operated a very profitable oligopoly (some might say duopoly). That meant it was all about cost cutting and price increases. Other than styling, the consumer was just a means to make money off of. Otherwise, quality kept going downhill to wrench of few more pennies of profit off each car, while prices began spiraling up. Then Japan entered the picture. Suddenly there was real competition and Detroit wasn't prepared to operate in that environment, nor was the UAW. When environmental and safety issues were implemented by Congress, Detroit said it can't be done without big price increases, blaming slipping quality on those interferences. But Japan simply said, "OK we'll do it" and they did without a lot of bluster and price hikes (they used smart engineering instead of politics).

    Unfortunately, Detroit's behavior in their oligopoly years left a bad taste in many buyer's mouth, helping Japan successfully enter the market, and those experiences rubbed off on many people's kids down the road. How did Detroit handle Japan? Well they didn't initially try to work on quality or pricing. Instead they pushed Congress for trade restrictions. Then it was blaming currency, but unfortunately that just resulted in transplants broadening the foreign producers US foot print. Really, Detroit wasted several decades relying on trucks and political blaming games until gas prices forced them to wake up. Hopefully, their recent rebirth will continue to make inroads since luckily most Americans are forgiving people over time.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited May 2013
    I'm about to turn 131K on my Acura TL and I've not spent more than 1/3 of that amount in unscheduled repairs over the life of the vehicle. And according to some people I should have had my AC failed and my tranny failed twice over by this time.

    Sheesh, I had fewer repairs in my '97 Cavalier at 129.6K miles than you have had on your TL.

    I know...it's anecdotal when it's domestic; fact when it's something else. ;)

    My older daughter is doing her best to talk me into a Jeep Wrangler with her $$ input. For several reasons I think that's a bad idea, including a friend who told me to Google "Jeep Death Wobble"...and another Jeep-loving friend who off-roads his, did confirm his has the 'death wobble'. Anyway, I looked at CR's reliability survey results.

    Here's yet another thing that bugs me about their results:

    Avoid the 4-door Wrangler for problems; two-door OK.

    Really?

    For an '09, trans on the 2-door 'much worse than average' but 'much better than average' on the 4-door? Why? I know sample error happens, but there it is in print: 'Avoid the 4-door'. Sheesh. (Trans is apparently one area where the four-door is better.)

    I simply cannot believe that the addition of two doors causes more mechanical woes.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Wranglers are fun, and great in the dirt, but as an actual automobile that you'd use everyday, they are pretty awful. Think twice.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think any President in office that would allow all 3 american automobile manufacturers to fail would have stepped on a political third rail with ramifications for a decade.

    Aside from job retention, it was a matter of national pride.

    I mean, look what happened to the British automobile industry and motorcycle industry. Japan destroyed their motorcycle industry in about 3 years---wiped out what was once world dominance and relegated British two-wheelers to a minor role today. And their car industry staggered along, just getting worse and worse, until even their most famous marques became an embarrassment.

    Aside from Morgan and racing chassis and a few bizarre little cars, they don't even make British cars anymore.

    I don't think the American public would have tolerated such a debacle.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited May 2013
    That may be true for a $20 blender, or even a $250 Vacuum, but I don't think it applies to a $25,000 new car.

    This is anecdotal evidence, so be warned...

    Having a few BMW products, I spend a little time on a couple of BMW forums.

    I can't count how many times I've seen posters in an uproar because they found out their cars had RFTs and no spare tires.

    Other than the M series cars, BMW has been making cars that way for many years.

    I would think the amount of time, thought, and research goes up with the purchase price.


    A large segment of new car buyers, at least from my experience, don't bother to ever open up, much less read their owners manual after they buy the car. That doesn't bode well for the idea buyers do their research before the purchase.

    Ask your coworkers and friends if they've ever completely read their owners manual on their $20,000+ purchase. See what they say...

    From what I've seen, many more buyers select vehicles based upon style and things like claimed gas mileage efficiency rather than researching the car's probable reliability and residual value in any detail.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The Asian and Euro makes have fed at some nice troughs too, you know.

    Oh, everybody had troughs. I'd love to see a chart of the relative sizes of those troughs, though.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    The only thing I can think of is that the 4-door version might have more squeaks and rattles than the 2-door? But you're right, I don't see how it would cause any more issues, mechanically. Other than the fact that it's going to be a bit heavier, so that would theoretically put more stress on the drivetrain, brakes, etc.

    As for the transmission being more reliable in the 4-door version than the 2-door, the only thing I can think of is that the 2-door probably gets taken off-road more often, gets stuck in the mud, is used to pull other rigs out when they get stuck, and so on, and perhaps all that muddin' and such is enough to sway the statistics?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited May 2013
    >I'm about to turn 131K on my Acura TL and I've not spent more than 1/3 of that amount in unscheduled repairs
    >Sheesh, I had fewer repairs in my '97 Cavalier at 129.6K miles than you have had on your TL.

    I spared the ritual comments when I read that:
    How much was spent on the Honda TL on Scheduled maintenance?
    And of course does the TL owner realize that's just one example, certainly not typical of costs. I won't put in a reference to the "perfect" cars that some have always used in their anti-GM, anti-US manufacturer, postings in the previous forum, because I think some have come to understand that no cars are perfect. Sort of llike saying "Everyone" as a colloquial phrasing....

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited May 2013
    ..."accord"ing to "legend" (no pun intended?).

    Our '99 TL with 143,000 has the original transmission and A/C compressor. However, the transmission problems started with the 2000 model, when they replaced the 4-speed, which works well, with a new 5-speed, which was problematic through the '03 model year.

    I had to add refrigerant to the A/C a couple of years ago. With the hot weather coming I'll check it again soon, to see whether it needs to be topped off again.

    Our TL has been an excellent car. Problem now is that a SUV rear ended it yesterday while my wife was stopped at a stop light. Fortunately nobody was hurt. The damage to the TL was considerable, but hopefully not enough to total the car. Hopefully.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Well, score one for GM, I guess. My Park Ave is up and running again. For the most part. Last night, when I finally got home from work, I went down and stuck the key in it, and it finally recognized me! Instead of displaying "driver unknown", it showed the normal "driver 1". So, that's most of the battle. However, it still thinks there's a low tire pressure problem. And the gas gauge is still pointed way off to the left.

    But, like the mighty Phoenix rising from the ashes, it's back! Until something else breaks, I guess. :P

    I drove it to work today, and during lunch I'm going to fill it up. Hopefully a full tank might help jig the fuel gauge needle loose.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Ouch, sorry to hear about the accident, but I'm glad everybody's okay! Sounds like the car's "Integra"ty held up with "Vigor".
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The TL's from the mid '00 are excellent cars. I'd love to have one even if it cost 4x to maintain vs. a comparable domestic of that period.

    I test drove a few used one's a while back and was more than impressed. My wife was considering a different position which she would have lost her company car and I was shopping for a car for her. I test drove a new Saturn Aura XR and a used 04 TL with 35k miles on it the same day. I liked the TL much better. It was tight, smooth, and responsive and definitely was a nicer car. I thought the Aura was a decent car (except the one I drove while only having a few miles on it had a buzz in the dash), I would have bought the TL in a heart beat if we would have needed a car at the time.

    I've yet to sample a domestic that has a powertrain that is as smooth and responsive as the v6 Acura's I've driven.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited May 2013
    And now, at around 91200 miles, it's telling me it doesn't recognize me as a driver! :mad:

    Seems to me GM vehicles were prone to electrical issues back then. The two Park Ave's my grandpa had both developed numerous electrical gremlins as they got close to 100k. Tire monitors not working, wipers that would just turn on randomly etc. HVAC control problems

    My '00 Suburban had a bunch of electrical issues too. If I turned on the fog lights, the washer pump would run. When in reverse, the rear wiper would occasionally move an inch or two and go back down. The 4wd selector switch would sometimes be inoperable (common problem), then the heat would get stuck on which required a $600 control unit to be replaced.

    My Expedition has had similar issues too. The auto climate control when haywire where the fan blew on high all the time and I've had issues with with the driver window regulator.

    The most disappointing area with my expedition is the paint and trim. The paint is flaking and bubbling on the tailgate (common problem) and the plastic trim along the the top of the doors is faded and cracking. It looks like it has been sitting in the sun for 20 years.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I don't know the exact timeframe, but I really liked the TL that was around from around 2004-2008. Seemed like just the right size, inside and out. Even though I prefer bigger cars, it still seemed to fit me well. And I thought the style was just about the perfect balance between sporty and conservative.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't know the exact timeframe, but I really liked the TL that was around from around 2004-2008. Seemed like just the right size, inside and out. Even though I prefer bigger cars, it still seemed to fit me well. And I thought the style was just about the perfect balance between sporty and conservative.

    I think that is roughly the model years I really liked. Just a nice sporty sedan. The current model looks over styled and bloated. Probably still a nice car, but I'm certainly not drawn to them like the previous generation.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    A friend of mine had an 03 Accord that puked a transmission around 70K and had several related issues after that. I remember that car liked to make whining noises at lower speeds, like an old car with gear issues. I saw an 04+ TL yesterday that I could hear whining from the street.

    That 04-08 model was such a nice design compared to the messes (across the Acura line) that have come since.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited May 2013
    Relative to and defined by what? This is a "chart" where the three types of lies could come into play.

    No matter, we get to play the same game as the competition, or not allow their game to be played on our playground. No other options.

    Oh yeah, I will also add the direct and indirect military and related aid provided by the American taxpayer to the competition as part of that trough.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited May 2013
    Honda is no different in that they can have issues too. My dad's 09 Accord v6 has gone through two engine tear downs between 70k-90k miles. But I will say Honda has stepped up and taken car of him as each incident cost him $100 and they provided a new car to drive while performing the repairs. He never received that kind of service during the 40 years he drove domestics (not saying the domestics never give out goodwill, but I've never received it and I don't personally know many who have).

    Back in the mid '00 there simply weren't many domestic cars I liked at all. That has changed with the current line up. There are several domestic cars I'd consider today.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sheesh! I've had even fewer repairs in my 1989 Cadillac Brougham at close to 159K and 24+ years!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Here again the "cost per mile" to maintain a given car is not the sole determinant in buying it in the first place--it might not even be a *major* determinant for some people.

    I'm a perfect example. A Mini Cooper, for its size (is there a formula for 'cost per inch"? :P ) costs just as much, I would figure, as a BMW 5-series to maintain and repair, and I'm SURE way more than a Chevy Malibu.

    But I don't want a Chevy Malibu or a BMW sedan. So I fork up to drive what I like.

    QUESTION: do you think the majority of people buy cars they don't like all that much? In other words, do things like gas mileage and cost of repairs overrule things like styling and performance and "fun"? Do people who pay $35,000 for a minivan get into it every morning and hate it?

    Or is it all more or less "neutral"? You know, "well you gotta drive something and this will do".
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Nissan Leaf sales hit 25,000 in US

    Certainly lowering the price helped.

    All told, Nissan, which recently started producing US Leafs at its Tennessee plant, has sold 62,000 Leafs globally. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    Honda is no different in that they can have issues too. My dad's 09 Accord v6 has gone through two engine tear downs between 70k-90k miles. But I will say Honda has stepped up and taken car of him as each incident cost him $100 and they provided a new car to drive while performing the repairs.

    I know you're not a GM fan, but that would have been free from GM, and they would have also provided a rental.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited May 2013
    I'm a perfect example. A Mini Cooper, for its size (is there a formula for 'cost per inch"? :P ) costs just as much, I would figure, as a BMW 5-series to maintain and repair, and I'm SURE way more than a Chevy Malibu.

    I've heard Mini's can be expensive. I have a BIL with an 05 or so Mini Cooper S. He recently replaced the power steering pump and cooling fan. It was like $1,800 (in Honolulu).

    QUESTION: do you think the majority of people buy cars they don't like all that much? In other words, do things like gas mileage and cost of repairs overrule things like styling and performance and "fun"? Do people who pay $35,000 for a minivan get into it every morning and hate it?

    I don't have a good answer. I think a vehicle means different things to different people. I drive an Expedition because it's flexible enough to haul 8 people when needed (my daughter has a large group of friends) and I can tow our boat with it. We like to be on lake and that's where we splurge.

    If it wasn't for the boat, I'd have a luxury/sport sedan. Something like Fintail's E class or a 5 series, maybe even a CTS. While I'd love to have a dedicated sports car, I can't justify spending that much money on something only I would enjoy (maybe when the kids are gone). We just have to much going on and I'd rarely be able to drive it. Like most of my neighbors with their corvettes always sitting under a cover.

    I think many people want/need something that is comfortable, and relatively inexpensive to get from point A to point B. Just put gas in and go. Probably why the Camry has been on the top of the sales charts for so long. My MIL likes hers. It's reliable and gets her to work. Nothing more.

    Few dream of owning a minivan, but with kids, car seats, and strollers, they are the ultimate family vehicle in terms of room/economy and they don't drive like a truck. We had one years ago before all our friends had kids. We got made fun of. Funny thing is as they all started families, many now have a minivan.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I know you're not a GM fan, but that would have been free from GM, and they would have also provided a rental.

    True, but that's part of the implied warranty. Honda didn't have to do it.

    I may by a new GM vehicle in the future, but the warranty won't be a deciding factor;)

    I'm waiting to test drive the new Silverado and see what happens with the redesigned Suburban.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I did a little mind experiment just now...

    I concentrated on the idea of me buying myself a brand new pickup truck.

    What popped into my mind (the truck I'd look at first) was the Ford F-150.

    In truth, I have no freakin' idea why I chose that. WHO got into my head and made me think that?

    I really don't know one pickup from another these days.

    Of course, if I really went shopping, I would start my homework and might end up with a different make.

    But it was interesting to discover what my "lean" was, and how basically irrational it might be.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    What popped into my mind (the truck I'd look at first) was the Ford F-150.

    Oh me too. I test drove an Ecoboost f150 Lariat a year or so ago and it was a really nice truck. It was comfortable, powerful, and refined (for a pickup). The crewcab has a insane amount of room. The rear seating area offers more legroom than most large sedans and a lot more than my Expedition.

    I'm a little hesitant regarding the Ecoboost. It's by far the strongest gas motor I've sampled in a pickup, particularly at low to mid range rpm. It just pulls. But FE doesn't seem to be anymore than a v8, though it does have more torque at a lower rpm than any of the gas v8's available.

    I'd definitely drive a 5.0v8 model before pulling the trigger. Also a few weeks ago I test drove a '13 Ram Laramie crew cab which also was a very nice truck. It also drove nice and was comfortable. It definitely appeals to those who want more visual excitement inside and out. It has the nicest looking interior by far of any truck I've been in.

    The Ford has more capability in terms of weight capacity and towing. The same for the new Silverado. I don't care for the current Silverado, but I expect the new model to me much improved, but from pictures the styling inside and out leaves me a bit cold, but I certainly would like to check it out.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'd guess the F-150 idea arose because so many are sold. It's been a best seller for years and years.

    That must say something about the expectations of quality being somewhere in the ballpark of the actual quality owners experience in ownership of the vehicle.

    And, you've been smothered in advertising over the years by Ford. Some of it stuck with you.

    Here's another little mind game. Think about buying a new car. What brand comes to mind first? Why do you think is was that make and model?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    I always thought that having two truck divisions at GM was a bit silly, because it simply handed the 'best-seller' crown to Ford, when for a lot of years, GM pickups outsold Fords, but since GM broke them into two brands (same trucks), they couldn't brag that up like Ford.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You know, given all the police, speed traps, and oppressive gadgetry on new cars, I can't even muster any enthusiasm for owning a 2013 ANYTHING (at least not anything in my price range).

    So anything "new" for me would have to be utility oriented, rather than peformance oriented---I'll get my performance from a used vehicle.

    I mean, really, you can pick up some very good performing used cars these days for not a lot of money. It's not like there have been HUGE gains in performance these last ten years. A 2003 Corvette or Porsche or even MINI is plenty fast and plenty competent.

    Have you seen the SIZE of the owner's manuals in some 2013 cars? It's absurd!

    Reminds me of my friend who asked me the other day wondering if he should get the new Galaxy S4 android phone or the new iPhone.

    I looked at the list of features, then look at at my friend, and said--"just buy a cheaper HTC because you are NEVER going to use 90% of what those phones do"

    I'm the same way about new cars. I'm paying for stuff I will never use, or care about.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Have you seen the SIZE of the owner's manuals in some 2013 cars? It's absurd!

    The owner's manual for my 2012 Ram won't even fit in the glovebox. I have to keep it in the center console. And, I'm ashamed to say, I have yet to even open the thing...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited May 2013
    Have you seen the SIZE of the owner's manuals in some 2013 cars? It's absurd!

    Would be nice to see some of these newer models with the In dash Interface contain the user manual data. heck, there are APPS being built into cars nowadays, might as well include one for searchable car info...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So what do you do when you need to look up a mac n' cheese recipe on your Driver Communications Data Screen? :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Here's another little mind game. Think about buying a new car. What brand comes to mind first? Why do you think is was that make and model?

    Dodge Charger. But, that's because I've been kinda wanting one, ever since the 2011 restyle.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    So what do you do when you need to look up a mac n' cheese recipe on your Driver Communications Data Screen?

    Oh, mine's a fairly strippo model, so it doesn't have that. Heck, it took me a couple months to even notice the little "step" and "reset" buttons on the steering wheel! One day I pressed the "reset" button out of curiosity to see what it did, only to see the trip odometer go to zero. There's a button on the gauge cluster that cycles through the odometer, two trip odometers, the "Eco" setting which lets you know if it's running on 6 or 8 cylinders, and outside temp. Turns out the step button on the steering wheel just does the same thing.

    Actually, I did open the owner's manual once, when the tire pressure warning light came on. It mentioned that sometimes, even after you've properly inflated all of your tires, it can take up to TWENTY miles for the damn light to go off! Luckily, I discovered that it usually goes off after a few seconds worth of continuous driving. It's rare my truck even gets driven 20 miles at a time, so in theory that light could almost forever!
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Have you seen the SIZE of the owner's manuals in some 2013 cars? It's absurd!

    When I buy any new product (of any significance) I go to the manufacturer's website and download the manual(s) to my laptop and iPad. Much easier to go directly to the section you want and get your answers, and much faster/convenient. All your manuals in one place.

    If I was younger I would also download them to my iPhone, but at my age, presbyopia has set in, and my arm isn't long enough to hold the phone far enough away from my face so I can read the tiny text.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    300c
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Ha, that reminds me of when I visited my mother last week, she had somehow made the temperature display in the car (Camry, of course) switch to metric. She had no idea what happened, she was assuming some of the pixels had died :shades: ...didn't even think to look in the manual. One button changed it back.

    My new car has the major manual topics loaded into the car's computer to be read on the nav screen - but minor details refer to owners manual.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I'll never forget one time, when I was driving my grandmother around in my uncle's '88 LeBaron coupe (the one he ultimately sold me when I got married), out on the highway I switched the display to metric, where the speedo was reading over 100, and then said "hey grandmom, check out how fast we're going!"

    She had a fit! :P Even after I showed her it was just the mph/kmph conversion, she still wasn't overly impressed with me that day.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Yeah, every company can make lemons - even Lexus (I see quite a few complaints over interior materials on later models). My friend had bought the warranty on that Accord, so it was fixed several times under that, too.

    Can't think of many domestics I would want from Y2K either.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Digital speedometers, always just on the verge of coming back. New trend is digital simulated analog units. I wonder if I can get my new car to speak in German, my previous car would do it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Actually, now that you mention it, a black on black 300c might interest me. :P
This discussion has been closed.