The Current State of the US Auto Market

tlong · September 2013

Hard to believe those excuses if you owned and experienced one first-hand.

I can say without hesitation that of six new cars I or my wife have ever owned, only one was UAW-made and it was absolutely the vehicle with the most initial problems due to assembly issues.

busiris · September 2013

What models of any significance were being imported into the US between 1940-1950?

Just curious...

berri · September 2013

Have to wonder though if it was just UAW labor, or Detroit QC and purchasing of low bidder cheap parts? I believe if a part is a little out of spec Honda and Toyota will just reject it, but D3 will sometimes accept it at a cost reduction. In all fairness, you can't always fit stuff together that isn't perfectly matched.

berri · September 2013

"Ford Pinto, the "Barbeque that Seats Four""

From things I've read over the years it seems to me at least that both the Pinto exploding gas tanks and the Explorer rollover SUV's were results that shouldn't have surprised the engineers and were maybe the results of cost cutting. IIRC, a slightly higher priced bracket would have alleviated much of the Pinto risk and the Explorer design was top heavy with perhaps too narrow of a track width. We owned one of those Explorer's before the issue arose and honestly that vehicle was kind of wobbly if you turned it abruptly. Throw in the cruise control fiasco that seemed to be downplayed at first, but then expanded and expanded while vehicles, and sometimes garages and houses burned, and I can't help but wonder about the corporate culture at Ford. I don't really trust the company anymore and have stayed away after several bad vehicles combined with these kind of incidents.

stever · September 2013

I didn't think I'd ever get another one like my '82 Tercel but my '99 Quest has been stellar. Had the Tercel for 17 years and 114k. Had a few issues and one notable stranding below zero. The Quest is only going on 15 and has 193,500k on it. Got stranded one time earlier this year - another cold day (14° or so), when the original timing belt finally snapped. I could have done the scheduled maintenance on it 75k earlier and avoided the tow, but what's the fun in that?

My Quest was assembled in Ohio by the UAW.

circlew · September 2013

Exactly! It was the Big 3's market to loose. You know the rest.

circlew · September 2013

Also had an '82 Tercel. Excellent vehicle.

tlong · September 2013

Have to wonder though if it was just UAW labor, or Detroit QC and purchasing of low bidder cheap parts? I believe if a part is a little out of spec Honda and Toyota will just reject it, but D3 will sometimes accept it at a cost reduction. In all fairness, you can't always fit stuff together that isn't perfectly matched.

Good points. Judge for yourself:

My UAW-build car was a brand new 1994 Mercury Villager (built by Ford, but thankfully had a Nissan engine and transmission. We put over 225K miles on that vehicle, so it served us well). Upon initial delivery:

- Glovebox was quite crooked relative to the dash
- Map lights unit was not installed properly and had a corner hanging out
- Speedometer had electrical issue and would erratically move from current speed back and forth to zero
- Soundproofing sheet on engine hood was ripped pretty badly

None of my other new cars had any of those types of problems - in fact it was hard to find anything wrong at all. This car had *four* things wrong at delivery

uplanderguy · September 2013

What happened to the imports' market share between 1920 and 1950?

Oh...I think I know.

lemko · September 2013

My one college roommate's girlfriend also had one. He drove a big green 1972 Pontiac Catalina.

uplanderguy · September 2013

I bought a fob online for my daughter's Cobalt and tried to get it programmed at my usual Chevy dealer, but had to wait a week and they charged $40. The dealer nearest me said 'come on in' and charged $19.95. They finally have twelve new Impalas in stock. Sheesh, I like those cars...first Chevys in a long while I've been excited about. Again, the four-cylinder LS at $27,595 including destination seems like an incredible value for that.

Anyway, they have two '14 Malibus. I was underwhelmed with the changes.

Grille is different, but I don't know if it's an improvement. I'm neutral on it.

I know just looking inside a locked car won't tell you anything, but it was next to a '13 Malibu and I didn't notice any big difference in rear-seat legroom. I was expecting the rears of the Malibu's front seats to be 'hollowed out' to allow for knee room, but this was not the case in the '14. The '14 LS they had stickered at $23.2K, which seemed reasonable.

The '14 Camaro SS I had seen outside there a couple weeks back ($37.9K, yikes) was in the showroom with a sold tag on it.

crkyolfrt · September 2013

That 'spike' isn't as significant as it first appears due to the last bar representing two decades. All the others are a only a decade.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2013

imports of any significance between 1940 and 1950? Not much---MG TCs, significant because they pretty much started the 2-seat sports car craze in America; a smattering of arcane British sedans, the Jaguar Mk IV and V saloons, some English Fords, a handful of VW bugs.

Really, imports were a drop in the bucket back then.

lemko · September 2013

What? I bought a new fob for my wife's Lacrosse and it was programmed within 5 minutes at my local Buick dealer.

uplanderguy · September 2013

CLA 2-something? I saw an ad while waiting for my car this morning. I believe with the arched top-side-window line, they were trying to imitate Benz two-door hardtop looks, but sheesh, I don't know how anyone could get in the backseat without doing a huge "duck" to avoid banging their head.

I'd always crack my head getting into my buddy's collector '56 Packard Patrician with a rear door cut like that.

fintail · September 2013

CLA250, which mimics the CLS, a car MB calls a 4 door "coupe". I don't know if I've ever seen anyone in the back of one of those either. It's all about style, function follows form. The new car bases at 30K and will at least initially sell like hotcakes.

uplanderguy · September 2013

I didn't word it very well.

They couldn't get me in for another week, so I called the other nearby Chevy dealer and they said I could come right in. I was there about forty minutes and they washed the car..good because I'm going to wax it tomorrow.

I bought the fob on eBay. It's a GM fob, but the case is pink plastic and the buttons glow in the dark. At first I got the "Are you sure this is for this car?" and I said "yes; it's an LT so I knew it wouldn't be the one with remote start". It was the right one.

Being that I bought both the car and the fob from eBay, I thought $19.95 was reasonable; $40 (from the other dealer) far less so.

I also bought on eBay for my F-I-L in FL, two brand-new fobs for their '04 Lincoln Town Car....under $10 for both including shipping, and they included D-I-Y programming instructions. GM makes you have the dealer do it, but I paid $14.99 for a new fob on eBay.

All of the fobs I bought had brand-new batteries installed, included.

My new taillight cost only $73.00 installed. I'm stunned it was that cheap.

uplanderguy · September 2013

"Even the 2nd generation Neon is a RARE sight here in CA, and when you do see them (or the rare 1st generation), they look like a pile! "

Within five minutes of leaving my house this morning, I was behind a second-generation Neon. It did have a hole in the area right behind the rear door and in front of the rear wheel opening, but wasn't spewing smoke or making any loud noises. What would the newest one of those be?

uplanderguy · September 2013

I guess in my mind, coupes (two-doors) can get away with that kind of function-follows-form, but I buy a sedan for one reason--better access to the back seat. I agree that at that price and with a M-B nameplate, it will sell like crazy and I bet more than just initially.

fintail · September 2013

That philosophy also restricts visibilty, which annoys me - I don't want to have to rely on parking sensors and cameras to park, especially as I often reverse-in in parking garages.

The price is just a few grand lower than real world C-class prices, but it will have a lot more style in the eyes of younger buyers. MB has recently become afraid of being upright and traditional - although some buyers prefer that in a sedan. Soon there will be an AMG version of the CLA, with a 4cyl engine putting out 360hp. That might be more tempting.

And these cars might be tangentially related to the thread, as the stylish and upmarket small car is something that US makers have stumbled around, and the US market might finally start adopting in numbers.

scwmcan · September 2013

You shouldn't feel bad at even the $40 price. Up here Mercedes charges $150 to program a fob for a smart, and if you buy one from them you are looking at $450 for a new key, just outrageous.

uplanderguy · September 2013

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/28/bmw-3-series-5-series-x1-x3-z4-brake-recall/?- utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fautoblog- +%28Autoblog%29

circlew · September 2013

Toyota and GM Chevy Recalls Total Over 650,000

By Douglas A. McIntyre September 4, 2013 6:28 am EDT

Two weeks ago, General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) recalled nearly 293,000 Chevrolet Cruze models. In these, the power-assisted brakes can fail, which ought to make owners particularly nervous.

uplanderguy · September 2013

I had completely missed both the Chevy and Toyota recalls from 3 1/2 weeks back.

Since BMW has the same problem, one cannot assume greater quality with the more one pays, I guess.

The comments below the BMW recall posting in autoblog are amusing IMHO, although there is never a hint of balance in any posts, ever, after a recall post on that site! LOL

Mr_Shiftright · September 2013

What that means is that the power assist fails---the brakes don't actually fail--you can still stop the car. I guess freaking people out is what the media likes to do.

robr2 · September 2013

They were offered through 2005.

My neighbor and his family must've had 5 of them over the years. He commuted about 600 miles a week and passed them down every 2-3 years through his 4 kids. AFAIK, some of the cars went off to college and then came back.

There are 3 left in his driveway and only one of them is in rough shape. I think it might be the first one.

uplanderguy · September 2013

That's interesting. I've only ever owned one Mopar product (older daughter has it at college now), but I did think at the time that those first-generation Neon coupes were good-looking cars. As I said, I constantly see second-generation Neons that don't look or sound bad from behind.

fintail · September 2013

My brother had a nearly-new 1st gen Neon coupe. It eventually got hit, and he was thankful - he came to loathe the neon for constant minor issues. He said the V6 Sundance Duster that replaced it (he has a minor Mopar fixation at times) was a better car.

nvbanker · September 2013

I was not really a MOPAR fan for decades - but have changed my opinion a bit. Had an 07 Pacifica which my daughter drove HARD for a few years. At 140,000 miles, it was still going fairly strong. AC problems were the major functional issue, most of the options inside were deceased, and I became concerned about the transmission which I thought was way overdue for a breakdown, and I sold it. But for all the hard work, it held up really well. I am also quite impressed with the longevity of the Charger/300s.

andre1969 · September 2013

Even the 2nd generation Neon is a RARE sight here in CA, and when you do see them (or the rare 1st generation), they look like a pile!

You'll get a kick out of this...on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot with a friend, who's currently car-less. He lives in DC and can get most places that he needs to on a bike. Anyway, he's also pretty clueless when it comes to cars. He was talking about wanting to get one, and asked what I thought of the Neon?!

At first I wondered what made him drag that name up, but then I noticed that there was one in the parking lot, that he spotted, and for some reason happened to fixate on. So, I had to clue him in that they haven't built a Neon since probably late 2004, early 2005 at the best. And that, to put it nicely, they're not very good cars.

I have a friend who had a second-gen Neon, and I don't think he had any real issues with it. But, someone sideswiped it while it was parked, and the damage was just enough to total it, because of the low book value.

imidazol97 · September 2013

I thought of this discussion today when I saw a nice red Neon parked along the I-75 freeway between the ramp lane and 4 travel lanes in a broad striped area.

Looked okay. Hood closed. No driver. No rust. Must have run out of gas.

Tonight filling up my car before midnight using my $1.00 Kroger discount, an early 20s guy was filling up a sparkling Neon. Toyota sand would be the name of the light tan color in my mind. But it was polished and glistened as did the nice wheels.

circlew · October 2013

...for now.

anythngbutgm · October 2013

Not a truck guy myself, but who the heck buys 2WD pickups?

uplanderguy · October 2013

That's nice, but even to me, a GM owner, there are so many things more than MPG that need to be considered.

Strictly a guess on my part, based on people I know with trucks, but I bet 2WD outsells 4WD--at least here...and we get snowy winters here.

dieselone · October 2013

Overall I'd bet 2wd outsells 4wd. If all you need is on road heavy hauling or towing, then 4wd is a waste. I wanted 4wd for winter and pulling a heavy boat up potentially slick launch ramps. Most of the time I don't need it, but its critical when I do.

As for MPG. Uplander is correct. To many other factors. Plus the ratings among the leading trucks are close enough that it doesn't make a big difference.

ohenryx · October 2013

Overall I'd bet 2wd outsells 4wd

I'm certain your correct, but I can't find anything to back that up. I just spent 10 minutes with google, yahoo, bing, and ask. No answers, just advertisements. Someone needs to come up with a new online search engine which will NOT feature advertisements. I'll bet it would be immensely popular, but then, how would they make money?

Having looked at new trucks recently, 3 Chevy dealers, 3 Ford Dealers, 2 Dodge dealers, 2 Toyota dealers, and 1 Nissan, I can tell you that they're stocking about four times as many 2wd as 4wd new trucks. Of course, this is in Houston, where it snows about as often as Haley's comet makes a fly by.

suydam · October 2013

I live in a rural area where there is snowy weather. I see both 2WD and 4WD. I do know resale value is always much higher on a 4WD which can be 20 years old and look it but still sell well. But it costs more upfront so that may be a consideration for a lot of people.

stever · October 2013

I sold my in-law's old beat-up pickup a few years back for them. Put it on craigslist for TMV and the buyer was a mechanic and knew the truck. I put the ad online around 10pm and he was banging on their door at 8 am since he also knew where they lived. Guess I should have held out for more money but the in-laws were thrilled that it brought $800.

It was a 1990 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat 2WD Nevada truck with just under 100k.

Last year was a bit higher than the norm, but we got 244 inches of snow. :-) I'm assuming the buyer didn't make a plow truck out of it, lol.

crkyolfrt · October 2013

I wondered the same thing? Obviously states that have a lot of pavement, dry flat roads, and 1st time 2WD purchasers cuz the 'real' truck which gets traction front and rear costs so much, will skew the stats to probably favour 2WD.

But here in southern ON, pick any NA dealer of fullsized p/ups, and the ratio is hugely in favour of 4WD. And not 'just' 4WD but extended/quad cab 'cars' in truck clothing. Just a couple weeks ago as a firsthand example but have many others in the past..I was looking at Rams, and there was only ONE 2WD! One 4x4 dually, 3 4WD 8' box, and I think I counted 11 4WD extended/quad cabs. And the majority of those had sunroofs...ugh...so trimmed very highend.

So when I see EPA and then in SMALL print at the bottom indicating 2WD on a vehicle which is OFTEN sold in much thirstier forms, I find it a bit misleading. Especially so if the high mileage champ falls from first place once 4x4 is spec'd.

When you see Ram TV ads, they brag about the having the BEST FE in the class with the Pentastar and 8 sp combo. What they fail to say though is that that combo is a substantial price upgrade from base powertrains with some combos still offering only 6 and even antiquated FOUR sp transmissions.

So...who needs 4WD? A lot more customers than many might initially think. And it's not just boat haulers that need grip on the fr axle on slippery ramps. It's also RV haulers who got tired of being stuck in wet grass trying to park their housetrailer in the the nice spot. Just take a random walk thru any trailer park within 200 miles in any direction around here and you will see very VERY few 2WD trucks towing a house trailer. And if you do spot one and ask, why the 2WD? the guy will say, "Mistake...never again". Occasionally you will find the obstinate personality that defends the 2WD to the death, but if you look at his camp sight, you will see that the trailer isn't really sitting on the high grd where he had tried for, and of course there is the mud 3/4 of the way up his sidewalls on the tires with a mess of spin marks on the site. lol..

My Uncle falls into that category...or at least used to. For years he bought 2WD and swore that's all anyone needs anytime he saw me with the 4x4 F150 paint disaster that I had at the time. But fast forward a couple decades and I saw him at the doctors office a couple months back and guess what? His brand new shiny Ram had both axles powered up. haha

Who else needs 4WD? Anyone who lives or drives regularly in hilly terrain in the snow or often not loaded. There are dirt driveways around here that go down into private driveways on the lakes, that even in the summer time, are so steep that if they have not been paved, you can't get out with 2WD unless you are loaded with 700 lb or more in the back.

Anyone who ever needs to plow snow too..

andre1969 · October 2013

Check out the infestation I found while out driving...

They're coming to geeeet you Bah-bra (er, I mean, Andres3) ;-P

fintail · October 2013

In the 5th Ave, I presume

ohenryx · October 2013

Im going to have to take strong exception to your statements. I owned two 5th wheel travel trailers for a total of 10 years. I pulled with a 96 Ford F250 with a 460 cid gas engine for 3 years, and then with a 2000 F250 with the 7.3L diesel for the remaining 7 years. Both were two wheel drive, and in that period of 10 years I never once saw any situation where I wanted much less needed 4 wheel drive. Not once, not ever.

I never once talked to an owner who said he wished he had the 4 wheel drive. I did talk to a number of owners who regretted buying a 4 wheel drive truck. When you have to go to the expense of flipping the axles to get the trailer high enough to clear the fenders on your jacked up 4 wheel drive truck, well

Perhaps we just do an entirely different kind of camping. I went to state parks, RV campgrounds, those kinds of places. Places where the sites were PAVED, the roads leading up to the sites were PAVED. You have heard of paved roads, right? Asphalt, concrete, etc, any of this sound familiar to you?

tlong · October 2013

"U.S. consumer demand for new vehicles cooled slightly in September, as expected, as Ford Motor Co topped analysts' expectations, but General Motors Co fell short"

Emotorcons are back!

stever · October 2013

Just got back from the in-laws. He used his 2WD F-150 to put his sailboat in and out of the water at Lake Tahoe. In the winter, he'd haul his two snowmachines up from Carson City with the same rig. He did note that they were good about keeping the roads clear.

(Emotorcon buttons are still missing, at least for some of us, in replies, although you can hand code them in.

)

dieselone · October 2013

I spend a lot of time among campers. I'd say most 5th wheel campers don't need 4wd as they'd never put their expensive rv anywhere but on a gravel or cement/paved campsite. That said, there are always exceptions. A 2wd truck can certainly launch and retrieve a boat.

Most people I know with pickups get them with 4wd. I'd guess the majority of 2wd truck sales are to fleets. And around here anyway, a 2wd truck will get hit hard on price at resale.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2013

Better ground clearance.

dieselone · October 2013

Ford was only about 2k units away from GM for the month. The F150 outsold the Silverado/Sierra combined by 14,512 units in September. I think I read somewhere GM has shortage of v8s. Also the Cruze had a bad month. Only 12k sold. GM was down almost 11% for the month vs. Ford being nearly 6% up.

uplanderguy · October 2013

Interesting about the Cruze, considering how well it has done recently. Not that this would make any difference that I'm aware of, but I saw 2014 Cruzes at my dealer in at least early August if not late July. Even then, that struck me as very, very early. The truck sales aren't surprising; the '14's have been trickling in just recently and I'm not certain when production of '13's had ended.

tlong · October 2013

GM claimed one of the reasons Sept was lower was due to reduced fleet sales. I see a lot of Cruze rentals; perhaps that's one reason.

crkyolfrt · October 2013

m going to have to take strong exception to your statements.

Ya? Well I'm going to have to take strong exception to the condescension of your post. As in:

Places where the sites were PAVED, the roads leading up to the sites were PAVED. You have heard of paved roads, right? Asphalt, concrete, etc, any of this sound familiar to you?

I already covered the PAVED road/lane exception. You must be hard up in wanting an argument to use that one. Well you ain't gonna get one here. If I'm going to debate something with someone, I make sure I have at least a somewhat credible/rational opponent. Consider this a favour to ya to even point out how outta line you are.

Plus, it would seem you totally ignored the 2WD to 4x4 ratio at local dealers in my area. Like I say, hard up for an argument. pfffftttttt..

The Current State of the US Auto Market

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