The Current State of the US Auto Market

uplanderguy · October 2013

I don't let CR influence my purchase decisions, but many who have posted here are influenced by CR. I think it only is logical to post when CR strongly dislikes foreign iron, or strongly likes American iron, when that is contrary to what has been typical for a long time.

circlew · October 2013

I'm guessing CR ratings didn't affect 2013 Malibu sales what-so-ever. Let me know your thoughts.

circlew · October 2013

What's going on?

uplanderguy · October 2013

Frankly my dear, I don't give a d***.

Are you wondering from the same chart, what's going on at Toyota?

My guess is that your answer to that question is the same as mine.

I'm a big believer in keeping things written as fact, factual, since we all know, once something's in print, it's fact forever.

Back to the original post--at CR, there is a difference between not "Recommended", and "Not Recommended".

circlew · October 2013

What does Ford know that Toyota doesn't?

circlew · October 2013

What the heck are you responding to? Two charts at once? Did you see the Camry sales?

I'm guessing your red-eyed regarding the Malibu numbers!;)

stever · October 2013

I can't see your Malibu chart fwiw.

The Ford/Toyota numbers are interesting - I think people like the handing on the C-Max and the rest better than the Toyotas.

uplanderguy · October 2013

I'm looking at your first chart. I replied prior to your posting the second chart. Time to get out of the city and try some Visine. It looks like only Ford and Chrysler were up for September.

imidazol97 · October 2013

> I think people like the handing on the C-Max

I'm going to have check the C-Max with a test drive some day. The sales tried to make me look at the C-Max instead of the Fusion I was stopping in to see. They must have had a salesman double bonus day if they sold a C-Max. LOL

andre1969 · October 2013

I didn't see the Dodge Charger hybrid on that list...

anythngbutgm · October 2013

LOL!!!

And in other news, the "Hellcat" is on the prowl...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/dodge-challenger-spy-shots-supercharged-hellc- at-hemi-v8/

stever · October 2013

Probably so; lost the link but heard about a deal earlier this month or last where Toyota gave a $250 bonus to anyone selling a Prius. Looks like it didn't move many cars though.

circlew · October 2013

Can you see this?

circlew · October 2013

Saw that. Impressive but so is the Z/28 Camaro.

anythngbutgm · October 2013

The Camaro is fugly IMO. And the Fisher price interior doesn't justify the pricetag.

The Chally has always been my favorite of the "Retro" phase.

Just my .02

circlew · October 2013

Let me know when you are in Central NJ. I'd like to take you to dinner.

circlew · October 2013

Oh, I agree the Challenger wins the retro look-alike contest. Just take a look at the vid for the Z/28 run at the 'Ring. Very impressive.

anythngbutgm · October 2013

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-peugeot-alliance-crumbling.html

Fiat 2.0?

stever · October 2013

Can't see it - the URL wants me to log onto AOL.

uplanderguy · October 2013

All I see is a little red "X" in a box, so it must be a setting on my (work) laptop here.

anythngbutgm · October 2013

Ya, impressive for sure. Although I could care less about what a pony car does around the "ring", they are all too fat and heavy for that application IMO and the visibility for the hard-tops (especially the Camaro) is atrocious.

But everything else from Hole Shots at the strip to cruising the Boulevard, and anything in between, the Pony Cars are cool and the Chally is still the looker of the bunch with the Mustang a close second (Ford paint quality is inconsistent IMO). I wouldn't be caught dead in a Camaro, I don't have a mullet nor a penchant for 80's hair metal and bimbos...

uplanderguy · October 2013

Boy, nothing like stereotyping. And, I don't even like the Camaro--really never did.

Well, maybe a '67.

When my buddies wanted a new Camaro, I wanted a Malibu Classic or Caprice coupe (the latter, '77 and later).

circlew · October 2013

uplanderguy · October 2013

That's awfully big of you...really.

Would I need a 'taster' first? LOL

I really never get there, although my niece and family live in Westville, but that's southern NJ.

Again, very big of you. Thanks.

circlew · October 2013

The Z/28 will be hard to beat. It's #22 on the current leader board for the fastest 'Ring times. 7:37.4

Some pretty hallowed ground, afaic!

Excellent job, Chevy!

Mr_Shiftright · October 2013

Do you think "WE'RE 22!" would be a good ad campaign?

andres3 · October 2013

Regarding your new Sony TV, I wouldn't blame Japan, it was probably built in Mexico or China. Sony has diversified into making like 10 lines of TV's in every size they make. From A to Z list in quality.

I bet it's possible some of the A and B stuff isn't made in China or Mexico. Not that where it's made means everything, because Sony can make TV's with extremely good quality and bad quality all in one country.

Did you get one of Sony's higher lines of Televisions?

berri · October 2013

If Circlew is in Monmouth County, NJ you should take him up on the offer. That area has a lot of really good, independent restaurants.

berri · October 2013

It was a mid level Sony line. But I think TV's are really down to just a couple of companies making the screen and other key components, so it may be best just to narrow down the picture quality you like and buy the cheapest of those anymore. I suspect Sony does very little TV manufacturing in house anymore, but I don't know for sure. I'm afraid that in many products and services these days a brand name doesn't really mean much like it used to.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2013

I think, with rare exception, that the concept of "brand loyalty" for mainstream car buyers has pretty much eroded over the past 25 years. With consumer empowerment and more information, they are less like lemmings, just buying what mom or dad bought way back when.

scwmcan · October 2013

Sorry your link was for the 2012 award not the 2013, in any case as I said not a lot of info on what they ask, I did look at the Autopacifc site and the 2013 list, they say what questions they asked, but the did ask them to 52,000 owners of new 2013 models that owned them for at least 90 days, the only cover 15 criteria though it sounds like they are pretty broad. I have no way to validate their info so I will just say that it is probably as valid as any of these " awards" and leave it at that, I certainly wouldn't choose of not choose to buy a car because it is on their list or not, bit it is yet another data point.

tlong · October 2013

After 20 years of fawning, it's utterly amazing to me.

Perhaps, just perhaps, CR was right and for most of those years the Asian makes were better and the US makes were worse. And perhaps now things are much more equal.

xrunner2 · October 2013

>>>>>I think, with rare exception, that the concept of "brand loyalty" for mainstream car buyers has pretty much eroded over the past 25 years.>>>>>

But, brand loyalty is alive and well on this thread.

stickguy · October 2013

well, as with any message board, the participants are the "lunatic fringe" and sure don't represent the public at large!

dieselone · October 2013

"But, brand loyalty is alive and well on this thread."

I buck that trend. It's been 20 years since I've purchased two vehicles in a row from the same manufacturer. I guess I'm a bit odd in the fact I like change and variety. It's part of the reason I don't like keeping things particularly long. I tend to get tired of them and want something different.

If my Ram turns out to be a POC it won't bother me that much. I'll just get rid of it and buy something else.

stickguy · October 2013

I sometimes have a few of the same car, but I believe in looking at everything. And buy whatever seems to work best at the time for my needs.

stever · October 2013

Speaking of brand loyalty, we're looking for good brand examples.

uplanderguy · October 2013

"Lunatic fringe" to me is posting flatly false things as fact (happens here often), and even calling domestic buyers 'racist'. It's happened here.

'Lemmings' buy whatever a magazine tells them to, or whatever is popular at the moment.

I paid $9,900 new for a car that has given excellent service over 5 1/2 years (not even a battery yet), and $19K for a car I still enjoy just looking at in the garage. No car payments. Excellent dealer service. My two used cars--paid $6,930 for a two-year old Mopar product that has given reliable service, and $5,500 for a four-year-old Cobalt that looks and drives excellently--$5,500.

Could I have gotten the above from a foreign maker? I really don't think so. And the dealer service would have been a question mark. Why gamble on something so expensive?

I have to call BS so often on a couple of forums here, it's sad. Some folks are just so wrong, and unable to admit so. Others just lie ("I saw ten Chevrolets on the side of the road on the way to work this morning".)

Also, BTW, new, large, Nissan recall today.

I'm not avoiding posting domestic recalls; it's just that the Japanese and Koreans have had so many more lately:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2013-14-nissan-pathfinder-among-nissan-vehicles-- - - - - - - - recalled-for-brake-problem.html

circlew · October 2013

Bingo! Monmouth County!

circlew · October 2013

"Perhaps, just perhaps, CR was right and for most of those years the Asian makes were better and the US makes were worse. And perhaps now things are much more equal."

That is the definition of balance and accuracy.

uplanderguy · October 2013

"Much more equal" appears to actually be currently heading in the other direction! Yeah!

uplanderguy · October 2013

Don't know if he still checks in here or not, but I had a question/comment on M-B resale value since resale value has been a hot topic here fairly recently.

My good friend has a Benz (an '05 big sedan, "4MATIC" on the trunklid, $95K new he said although he bought used--my brain is still conditioned to think of model names instead of numbers!) which he likes and went to look at a 2012 C120 I think (I wrote it down but can't find the note now). He said that car stickered at $120K!!!! Is that right, or is he mistaken? And....the Benz dealer's asking price is $62,500.

As a numbers guy and a cheapskate, I was absolutely astounded at that.

They offered him $6K for his 2005 so he told them to pound salt.

dieselone · October 2013

Fintail would certainly has more knowledge on MB than I, but in general premium luxury cars often have poor resale. For one thing, they can be expensive to maintain and two those who can truly afford a six figure car don't buy them used.

dieselone · October 2013

"I paid $9,900 new for a car that has given excellent service over 5 1/2 years (not even a battery yet), and $19K for a car I still enjoy just looking at in the garage. No car payments. Excellent dealer service. My two used cars--paid $6,930 for a two-year old Mopar product that has given reliable service, and $5,500 for a four-year-old Cobalt that looks and drives excellently--$5,500. "

There is a benefit to driving vehicles that many consider undesirable.

uplanderguy · October 2013

There sure is...if I want to be frivolous with a car, I'll buy an old ('classic') one.

Right now, the goal is to put daughter #1 through Miami U. with no financial aid of any kind and no loans on ours or her part. So far, so good.

Don't get me going on collegiate athletes getting scholarships! I always wonder how many other better students get looked over for athletes.

stever · October 2013

We have quarterly numbers starting to come in.

Ford makes $1.3 billion in quarter (Detroit Free Press)

Scuttlebutt on the street is that dealers suffered in October, especially in areas with heavy government or military presence.

Michaell · October 2013

Scuttlebutt on the street is that dealers suffered in October, especially in areas with heavy government or military presence.

Huh - wonder if the dealers in Colorado Springs had a bad October, seeing as how there is a major Army base, a couple of Air Force bases and the Air Force Academy in town.

imidazol97 · October 2013

>Don't get me going on collegiate athletes getting scholarships!

At the register while shopping for books at the BarnesNoble OSU authorized bookstore, I noticed a pad listing the various athletic scholarship recipients who were to get their books, and supplies, free. Besides food, dorm, expense money for living necessities, everything is special. While the other students have to pay for their books, shampoo, etc., even on an academic scholarship.

I wondered if that included tattoes as living expenses for the football team a while back. :grin Relevant is that the benefits did include special deals on cars from some car folks around Columbus.

On the other hand, while going through the front doors to B&N, we passed a young man leaving and after we passed him my son said that he was on the basketball team and very unpretentious, normal guy. My son had been in a class with him or had contact somehow. Think the name was Cable or Coble?

If the money that goes into college athletics went into the equpment, facilities, and staff, the economy would be a whole lot better for the results from the research allowed by the extra funding.

stever · October 2013

Yeah and these comments were from the East Coast, from places like Rhode Island (Navy) and Baltimore/DC .

ateixeira · October 2013

What do you mean heading in the other direction? It's been that way for a while.

CR never liked the Lexus IS, I don't think that model ever was rated at the top of that class.

And they've had it out for Lexus for a while - when the Lexus GX skidded in their tests they smacked a huge "DO NOT BUY" rating on it and called it unsafe, yet the Jeep Grand Cherokee "hopped and skidded sideways" and they gave Chrysler a break, and never put that label on it.

The two most senior auto editors drive a Durango Hemi and a BMW X5. Their top rated car is American (Tesla).

This anti-Japanese bias must stop!

The Current State of the US Auto Market

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