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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Obviously, I NEVER stop by a Chevy dealer...... Ever.

    Clearly. You might be able to better judge the product if you did.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Why would you?
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I've had enough of them for rentals to satisfy me. Nothing they produce makes me want to visit any GM dealer when I shop for a new car. Ford has done that, not that I would buy one but I'd certainly cross shop them. As I've said before, the cars GM is making aren't necessarily bad cars, but they certainly aren't competitive in today's market.

    GM has a lot of negative equity to make up for and they aren't producing products that make people want to come back. There's a reason their market share continues to drop.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Well...and a lot of other makes to compete with than 'back then'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I am highly unlikely to ever shop at Chevy, but I was surprised at how much I liked the malibu rental (previous style) that I had last fall. Nice driving car and good seats.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited March 2013
    That's because the Astro was DESIGNED as a Cargo van, and then adapted to be a passenger van - which explains its miserable design and driving position - but its rugged construction and power.

    I won't claim absolute certainty (there's enough of that here already!), but I'm pretty sure both the Astro and Aerostar were both introduced as both cargo vehicles and passenger vehicles...one version didn't come later.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    the early Japanese vans were like that. Thinly disguised JDM cargo vans that drove like it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Clearly. You might be able to better judge the product if you did.

    Years ago, (admit things were different then), I banked the local Chevrolet dealer, but drove Lincolns at the time. Every time I picked Greg up for lunch, he would whine about why I wouldn't buy a car from him, good naturedly, of course. I would just look at him, and one day he replied, "I know, I wouldn't either".

    Fast Forward from 1990 to 2013, and I rent cars a lot. When I'm forced to drive GM, I still find, although better, they're not that good. And Chevy is still the pitts. Oldest technology, little problems, and unremarkable design.

    Add to that, my dealer's license, which I use as a hobby, but I drive most everything. I liked the Avalanche - but that's over. Plus, the one I did own overheated when towing, and the A/C was horrible.

    The only Chevy I like the drive of, is the Impala - drives pretty nicely, if you like the old "boulevard ride", which I do. Certainly not up to date though.

    Not up to date! A good slogan for Chevy, IMO. Yeah, I think I judge the product pretty well, but thanks for the suggestion. :blush:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    You like the drive of the Impala better than the Malibu? I'd guess you're older than me!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • js06gvjs06gv Member Posts: 456
    edited March 2013
    I just sold my 2005 Avalanche. I loved it and was the best vehicle I've owned up to this point. Would've replaced it with one of the last of the 13s, but switched to Ford. There's nothing out there that can match the functionality of the Av; however, Ford has it all over GM when it comes to power, room and electronics. I ended up with an F150 King Ranch.

    I did a lot of towing with my Av, but not one problem with overheating or A/C.

    2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6, 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Not up to date! A good slogan for Chevy, IMO.

    So, in other words, a timeless classic, that never goes out of style! :P
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Or maybe it is more a slogan for his opinion of Chevy, it seems to be a little out of date now.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You like the drive of the Impala better than the Malibu? I'd guess you're older than me!

    Most likely am - but the Malibu HAS NO drive IMO. The Fusion rides sporty, a little harsh, little too hard to steer for me, but feels solid. The Malibu is not sporty, no.....but not smooth...certainly not quiet, for a non-sporty car....handles like warm wall-paper paste....

    I can't tell what the Malibu drives like. Nothing, or everything? Which is no driving characteristics at all. At least the Impala feels like an old Impala - which it is.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited March 2013
    Um...OK. Since you thought they were still building the Uplander, have you driven a 2008 or newer Malibu? Like most cars, there's a big difference between a 4-speed auto four-cylinder Malibu LS and a V6 LTZ of that previous genre. Our '11 is very quiet on the highway and gets mpg in the 30's with no sweat. And I tend to agree with something I saw someone say on a '77-79 B-body website today...I think the styling of our generation Malibu is almost-timeless in the way that the 'glass house' Caprice coupes of that era were...just MHO. And I have a personal thing about the Fusion being made in Mexico, although I believe soon (if not already) it will be built in Michigan.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited March 2013
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Sort of reminds me of the 2006 Dodge Magnum in its looks, only more refined and streamlined.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    It is indeed about time, and hopefully people actually buy it so they realize that they should bring over the V40 as well, and maybe keep bringing their wagons here, it is what they were known for and they they all but abandoned them to join the crowd of CUVs.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    agreed about the wagon issue, but frankly, the buyers did the abandoning of the traditional wagon when they had the V70 and XC70 and no one bought the V70.

    though this is much sportier, so could have a chance.

    I really like it. Can't afford it, but it would be a perfect car for me. Same with the TSX sportwagon.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Partially true, but didn't they cut out a lot of options on the V70 along the way? I seem to recall them cutting out the base engine, just leaving a thirstiest six as the only option, of course it also gained a lot of weight along the way as well so maybe it needed the extra power, but to me it seemed they made it more of one level, which may have been more lux than the traditional wagon buyers wanted, I think the last gen V70 was a bit much, the gen before 2001-2007) was pretty successful, but then the last gen went downhill in sales, but I could be wrong. A little more to the point this announcement seems to explain something that I saw about two weeks ago on my drive home, I am pretty sure I saw a V60 headed the other way on the highway, I can't say for sure I did, but I saw a Volvo wagon that seemed much slicker than the v70, since it was going the other way on the divided highway I really only caught a glimpse of it but it did catch my eye in a way that said it was something different.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    have you driven a 2008 or newer Malibu? Like most cars, there's a big difference between a 4-speed auto four-cylinder Malibu LS and a V6 LTZ of that previous genre.

    Ok, can we forget I made one little mistake on the Uplander?? :blush:

    Yes, Aside from my dealer's license that puts me among thousands of cars per week (apparently OLD Uplanders though), my Sister in Law has owned 2 of the new model Malibus. The -08, which stalled frequently on long trips, and the 11 she has now.

    I didn't say I liked the Fusion - just that I could define it as "sportier". A little like an Accord, noisy, sporty, rough riding, but solid.

    The Camry, by comparison, is super soft, quiet, smooth, and easy to drive. Not at all sporty.

    The Sonata is now a little like the Malibu - hard to put your finger on it. Steers sporty, but handles numbly, rides ok but takes the bumps like it's a bedpan. And the engine - sounds like a Maytag. Just my opinion -

    I'd either like the Camry for quiet comfort, or the Fusion for sporty - the tweeners are just the worst of both worlds to me.

    Just my opinion - not that humble, I admit. :shades:
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I like the looks but man that's a big car.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    The Fusion, both the new one and the previous generation, are light years ahead of the Malibu. Not perfect and still behind the Accord and Camry, but I'd take the Fusion over a Malibu anyday.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    does look like a full sizer now for sure.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Interesting, whether you want to believe all the data or not.

    image
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Hmm, again a chart that seems to show vast differences in reliability, but at least in the posted picture no explanation of what the scale is on the rilability axis. I can understand the test score axis, but what are they using for the reliability axis? Is it percentage based against the average, or against the best, or what? It is actually pretty meaningless without this data so if you could post at least that would help make us see what they are actually saying, still don't know that I would agree, but at least could get a clearer picture.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2013
    I like the looks but man that's a big car.

    True but it weighs 3,600 lbs. 200 lbs. less than the 5'er! That's a big difference and moving in the right direction.

    Caddy is coming back strong, late as they are.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    The Fusion, both the new one and the previous generation, are light years ahead of the Malibu. Not perfect and still behind the Accord and Camry, but I'd take the Fusion over a Malibu anyday.

    I hate the looks of the current Fusion, and the prior one looked OK but I didn't like the styling even remotely as well as the previous-gen Malibu. I didn't like 'made in Mexico', and for those who follow CR, a 2011 like I have is supposedly more reliable than the same year Fusion.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I hate the looks of the current Fusion, and the prior one looked OK but I didn't like the styling even remotely as well as the previous-gen Malibu. I didn't like 'made in Mexico', and for those who follow CR, a 2011 like I have is supposedly more reliable than the same year Fusion.

    You must be in the minority considering the sales disparity between the Fusion and Malibu.

    I'm mixed on the Fusion. I like it in the higher trim models in certain colors, but it definitely looks a bit awkward from certain angles. To me the Malibu is just blah. If I were to go car shopping, I don't even know if I would bother to drive a Malibu. Same with the Camry FWIW. Strictly based on what I've read and have seen on the road, I'd likely choose between the Accord, Altima, and Fusion.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    I like the previous gen Malibu, styling-wise, better than the current one. In a dark color, I think they have an elegance that is lacking in other cars of that ilk.

    I never care about 'being in the minority'. If I did, I'd drive a Camry and for a hobby car would have a '57 Chevy or Mustang. Bleccch. (No offense to anyone intended.)

    But then, I hated 'big hair' bands in the late '70's and always was a Carly Simon fan when Linda Ronstadt was wowin' em in her Cub Scout uniform. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But then, I hated 'big hair' bands in the late '70's and always was a Carly Simon fan when Linda Ronstadt was wowin' em in her Cub Scout uniform.

    I'd take BOTH Linda and Carly in '70's vintage. :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, I like the current Fusion but in a recent Automobile comp, the Accord reigns King in the midsize class. :)

    Anyway, looks like the kids are favoring Detroit and Hyunkia. Go figure! ;)

    Millennials poised to redefine the auto market
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I never care about 'being in the minority'. If I did, I'd drive a Camry and for a hobby car would have a '57 Chevy or Mustang. Bleccch. (No offense to anyone intended.)

    Well, regarding Mustang vs. Camaro, you win this year hands down. :(

    Winner winner, chicken dinner. At a surprisingly performance-oriented show this year, the return of the Z/28 nameplate to the Camaro lineup was arguably the highest-profile story out there. If the new Chevy featured a badge and a meaner face alone, we wouldn't have cared half so much. But with the Z/28 pounding out at least 500 horsepower, while shedding some 300 pounds, our inclination is to believe that this Camaro will be special. With blood-rival Mustang Boss 302 getting loads of praise and special racing editions over the last year, Chevy seems to have counterpunched with a haymaker here. The new golden age for American muscle continues – enjoy it while it's here.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited March 2013
    The Camaro is not my cup of tea...it really even wasn't when I was a teenager...but GM does seem to be serious about it, engineering-wise. I'm glad it has sold well.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I definitely believe the Jeep score based on my 2011 Grand Cherokee. A couple of other surprises are Buick and Lincoln being lower on quality, I don't like their cars but everything I've read indicates their quality is better than what is represented.

    I do like how they combine reliability with the test scores, but I wonder what constitutes "reliability". I know they dinged Ford for the My Touch (which they should) but it wasn't really a reliability issue, just poor design.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Based on sales numbers it seems most people agree with you. The new Malibu isn't a bad looking car, but clearly it's not being cross-shopped based on sales numbers. Ford at least knew how to wow the market with design, but GM is like Lincoln "good enough" just doesn't cut it when you have to regain market share. Wow me with a design then prove it's a better car, otherwise I'll keep buying other makes.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 526
    I just took about 10 minutes of my valuable time to look at the pictures of the new Cadillac CTS, a Mercedes CLA sedan. Lexus whatever and an Infiniti G35 Sedan.

    Strictly styling wise the other cars look like jokes next to the new CTS, especially the Japanese brands which border on ugly. I think the Cadillac interior outdoes the exterior, which is gorgeous.

    I can't afford one right now but for the money this is what I would buy for
    my wife to drive and for me to drive when not in my truck.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I just took about 10 minutes of my valuable time to look at the pictures of the new Cadillac CTS, a Mercedes CLA sedan. Lexus whatever and an Infiniti G35 Sedan.

    Strictly styling wise the other cars look like jokes next to the new CTS, especially the Japanese brands which border on ugly. I think the Cadillac interior outdoes the exterior, which is gorgeous.


    The MB and Infinity don't really affect me one way or the other, but I can agree on the Lexus comment. I'm not quite sure where Lexus is heading style-wise...

    The GS strikes me like the front end is designed for an easy hook-up to a snow plow.

    Each to his own, I guess...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Your 2011 GC is the latest design correct? What sort of problems have you had? I do know that they were replacing camshafts on the Phoenix 6-cylinder but other than that I haven't heard much.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    While that's great, you have to wonder, do they even care about cars?

    I think Hyundai and Kia will do well with the in-car tech they're offering now. Among the domestics, Chrysler's UConnect may help them as well.

    But even if they do link up to your iPhone and do neat doggie tricks, will young folks fork out money to buy new cars? I bet the average 16 year old would rather have a smart phone vs. a car.

    I was in Miami on vacation and used Google Maps/Public Transport, and it's amazing how easily you can get around that town, even as a stranger.

    I worry that the next generation just won't be as enthusiastic about cars. They may hardly even care.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    it wasn't really a reliability issue, just poor design.

    Actually a lot of people complained about freezing, loooong delays, etc. Those are real problems. Imagine you're late to the airport and your Navi craps out on your, and you miss your flight.

    Tech can (and often does) malfunction.

    I'm almost ready to toss my Magellan out the window, and go back to Garmin.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    I use a map. I've rarely been let down. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, around here roads and exits change, so a printed map is not current the day after it's printed.

    Dad's Chrysler doesn't have the ICC, even though he lives right off it!

    Garmin only added it recently (I get quarterly updates).

    Magellan's maps still don't have the whole thing.

    Here in the DC area they are re-doing Tysons, too, so you'll get lost in VA.

    Better yet, with a high cost of living and lousy weather, stay where you are! LOL
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm not quite sure where Lexus is heading style-wise...

    The GS strikes me like the front end is designed for an easy hook-up to a snow plow.


    I drive an LS, and I have to agree with you. My Dealer says the goal is "a reliable BMW". But I'm not really sure of ANY of the current Toyota styling - it's a bit wierd, bordering on ugly sometimes. Depends. They were heading in a consistent, pleasant direction I thought - what happened?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But I'm not really sure of ANY of the current Toyota styling - it's a bit wierd, bordering on ugly sometimes. Depends. They were heading in a consistent, pleasant direction I thought - what happened?

    Also Honda. At least their styling used to be classic and conservative. Then it moved to ugly. The CR-Z. The new Civic IMHO uglier than the previous one. The only one I think has improved is the new Accord. Even the new CR-V is uglier than the last one.

    And then there's Acura - don't get me going on that one. I drive an '05 TL which was the good looking one. Suffice to say I won't be buying any new Acuras anytime soon. And not because they're not good cars. But I don't get new vehicles often enough to put up with ugly.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Well, whether it's some of the vehicles you mentioned, or a Nissan Juke, et. al. - all I can say with some of these is that "Suddenly It's 1958 all over again"!
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Yes, it was the new design but I bought at the end of the model year. Here's a few of the issues I had that made me trade it in 18 months later:

    Key failure at 500 miles, had to be towed to the dealer and took them 9 days to fix
    Car would randomly lock itself with the key fob inside
    All warning lights on the dash would come on while driving for no reason, I took multiple pictures but the dealer never could replicate or find anything wrong
    Center stack went completely out in the hottest days of summer due to a loose wire
    Check engine light on, dealer said not to worry about it unless it was flashing
    Rain sensing wipers with a mind of their own

    Overall it was mostly electrical gremlins, and the Jeep dealer was nice but I knew them way too well and had no faith this car would run past 30,000 miles. I'm convinced mine was built by one of the Jeep workers that was fired for being drunk/high on the job.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You were being nice and didn't even mention the Odyssey.

    The Accord looks nice but the plug-in model had some odd cues.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My 'Bro ended his pain with Jeep never to venture into that quality chasm again. :)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The average resale value of General Motors vehicles climbed to 44 percent last year, matching that of Chrysler and sitting one percent less than Ford, but still 7.5 percent less than Honda. It's a welcome increase from the post-bankruptcy days of 2009 when 36.5 percent was number upon which lease rates were based. According to Bloomberg, even though that puts GM in line with the overall market rate of 46.5 percent, the company figures it can save from $150 million to $200 million if it can increase its vehicles' end-of-lease value because it won't have to put so much cash on the table to entice lessees.

    It won't be a quick fix, GM's North American CFO saying "The key will be great products and pricing and incentive discipline," as well as limiting how many vehicles get sold into rental fleets. It also wants the hot-off-the-line 2014 Chevrolet Impala to be part of the charge, planning to invert its sales chart so that 70 percent of deliveries go to retail customers instead of 30 percent.


    Not only that, but this also. Hopefully this type of thinking goes viral!! ;)

    As it turns out, GM nearly took the cheapskate approach to developing the Cadillac ATS. But at the 11th hour, the General decided to change course, and enthusiasts will be all the better for it.

    Automotive News outlines how Cadillac’s 3-Series fighter very nearly became Cimarron 2.0, with plans underway to build it on the front-drive Delta platform.

    “We were going to do a front-wheel-drive Cadillac compact off of Delta because it was going to be less expensive,” Doug Parks, GM’s vice president of global product programs, told me at the Detroit auto show in January. “There were people in the organization saying, ‘It’ll be OK. We can dial it in.’” So serious were the plans that Parks, who was based in Europe at the time, found himself driving 150 mph on a test track in Spain in a 2.0-liter turbo test mule built on the Delta platform.

    “We actually made it pretty darn good,” Parks said. “But in reality, you can’t go beat BMW or Mercedes when you don’t have the right weight balance and everything else.”

    GM’s decision to develop Alpha ensured that its performance vehicles have a new lease on life. The ATS will be the start of a range of cars, with the next-generation Camaro to follow. Two vehicles off of Alpha won’t be enough either, but what will follow the Camaro is anyone’s guess
    .
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