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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Are you suggesting that real pimps reject those styles?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I just read something about retired folks in Florida hanging out at places for oldies dancing. I wonder if that disco carriage has a crushed velour interior too?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Wouldn't surprise me. Probably some hideous plood, too.

    Funny image from wikipedia
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I actually remember some years back when Toyota dealers offered faux gold emblems and lettering on vehicles like Camry for around $600. So now the dealers are just pimpin' it up more for bigger margins. If Pops wants to buy it, what the heck. Maybe he's looking for some Sansabelt patterned pants to go with a contrasting striped knit shirt, and white belt and bucks. The Florida splendor of it all - I'm guessing the Villages!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Cadillac predates Ford by a year. Henry Ford was actually involved with Cadillac before he had his own company. Cadillac was a company independent of GM and predates GM by 6 years.

    Thanks for the info lemko!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited April 2013
    A girl I dated, cute but dumb as a rock, bought a few years after we quit dating, a Camry (probably about a '92? Rounded body with wall-to-wall light in the back and "CAMRY" spelled out in the middle of the light in the back). I remember her telling me at work, "It has the Gold Package!". All the emblems and nameplates were gold. Even Toyota wasn't immune. ;)

    It was one of those Camrys that after a few years, there'd be missing letters across the back.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is that why you dumped her?

    Justified. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, that would suck. :D

    I know 2 people who own those so I'll let them know.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    Is that why you dumped her?

    Nah, I was married by the time she got the Camry. When we dated, she had just bought a new '87 Mercury Cougar--dove gray non-metallic with blackwall tires. It didn't do much for me either. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My dad had an '86 Cougar. It was the car I drove to prom.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited April 2013
    I'd say the PT was most definitely a success for Chrysler. They built it for eleven model years with practically zero change.

    A success that drove and led them straight to disaster and bankruptcy. But hey, that's what happens when you sell Neons by another name (which is all the PT Cruiser was).

    For the record, this was their 2nd bankruptcy depending on how you perceive bailouts or what would have happened without them.

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I wonder how many PT Cruiser owners knew they were buying a Neon with a PT cruiser sheet metal look and decal on it?

    Had they known would they have still bought it?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I go weeks without seeing a Miata. Sales-wise, there'd be no comparison between the two.

    I agree, you can still easily buy a new Miata today, but you can't buy a new PT; despite two bailouts by the US government and one by FIAT.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    If I worked at Best Buy the first thing I would tell you is that most 98% of everything they sell is all complete junk made in China, except for the stuff in the high end Magnolia section.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Fry's tried to sell my brother in law an ACER 27" monitor for $279.99 and then promptly sold him on an extended warranty for like 65.99.

    First, I told him for that kind of money he could get a high quality monitor from a reputable company that a warranty wouldn't be needed for, and second, to make them price match the online price of 219.99, and refund the extended warranty he'd never use on a flat screen LED monitor.

    Shocking how overpriced the warranty was and that they still tried to sell those for something as reliable as a flat screen.

    Not so shocking was the savings by having them price match an online retailer; I'd say that's typical with Best Buy or Fry's. About 20%-30% is what you can save by doing your research, and nowadays, they will price match.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited April 2013
    I agree, you can still easily buy a new Miata today, but you can't buy a new PT; despite two bailouts by the US government and one by FIAT.

    I don't truly believe you can be this ill-informed. The PT has easily outsold the Miata, and the Miata is barely on the sales radar today. BTW, Ford injected money into Mazda.

    Furthermore, the first Chrysler loan was in 1979, over twenty years before the PT arrived.

    Sheesh.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited April 2013
    Another fairly significant recall after the Honda one the day before:

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2013-nissan-pathfinder-infiniti-jx35-recalled-fo- - - r-brake-problem.html
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Most folks can't afford high-end stereo. There was this high end stereo place near me. My friend and I went in there to look as he was a big-time audiophile. You're looking to spend at least $25K. The folks who go to Best Buy are probably splurging on credit or layaway as it is.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2013
    Most folks can't afford high-end stereo.

    Or desire to. The cheap ($400) Denon AVR I use for basically surround sound does all I need it too. I just wanted something that sounded better than the tv speakers and it does.

    I know a guy who has over $100k invested in his sound room and that is what he enjoys, kicking back listening to vinyl.

    I chose to spend money on other things. I simply can't afford to buy "the best" of everything, so I have skimp somewhere. We splurge on recreational activities. Between new camper we bought in '10 and a new boat last year, and a Waverunner, I could be driving a new S class if I didn't want other the other toys.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    That's a small one, 19k units. Some of them have been quarter million to half million cars, so...

    Good thing Nissan caught it early. I think both of those are in their 1st (or 2nd) model year.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    If you have a few minutes, we would appreciate your participation with our survey.

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  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Interesting that you consider $400 cheap, and a Denon AVR cheap. Most would consider Denon to be a "higher-end" brand although admittedly in the last few years they have sunk to new lows after the mass market.

    However, even in your case where you don't desire to buy high end audio, you still spent $400 on an AVR. You could have easily gone truly cheap and bought something for $200, or even less than 200; perhaps 25% less at $300. How come you drew the line at $400? I bet that's more than most people spend on their audio amplifier.

    Of course, if your willing to shop online, buy used or refurbished, or from perhaps unauthorized dealers, you could spend less than $400 and get something that is $800 at Best Buy.

    For sure there is some overpriced audio gear out there, and the law of diminishing returns applies after a certain point.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm guessing cheap compared to OEM prices for premium sound systems.

    IIRC Audi charges $6300 for the Bang & Olufsen, and that's over and above the base Bose system (which ain't bad).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Sure I could have gone cheaper, but there were a few features I wanted and $400 was about as cheap as I could go. Still as far as AVRs go, $400 would have to be considered lower tier price wise. When I bought it I checked with the usual online stores and the price was comparable and it's a lot simpler to return to BB if I didn't like it. I originally bought a Harmon/Kardon which developed a video processing issue with one of the HDMI ports. So I just took it back to BB and exchanged it. That was a painless process and I didn't have to wait days for shipping back and forth.

    I also bought my Panasonic Plasma from Best Buy. They matched Amazon's price, included free shipping (it was too big to bring home myself) and hauled off my old 35" Sony tube that I didn't want to have to try and move. So all in all, I was happy with my BB experience. Though there are some things I simply won't purchase from BB. Like HDMI cables. They really mark those way up! If I wanted an elite system, I go to a local more specialized home theater center.

    Honestly, I could have just kept the 15 year old Denon receiver I replaced, but it doesn't have HDMI input/outputs.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Fastest selling car in America right now is?

    Nissan Leaf! Just 9 days from lot to driveway...

    http://autos.aol.com/gallery/fastest-selling-cars/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-sb- - - - -bb%7Cdl26%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D301635

    Glad to see the Subaru BRZ and XV Crosstrek in there as well. But what's funny to me is so is this!

    http://www.blogcdn.com/autos.aol.com/media/2013/04/xmercedes-g-class.jpg.pagespe- - - - ed.ic.axJIBwwdEL.jpg

    Audi has 3 models on the list which I am not surprised in the least. They seem to be on a tear sales-wise lately...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure that has to do with the massive price drop. I did some math, with a $7500 fed refund plus a $2000 state of MD refund, the new base model now retails for $20,250. That's before you deal, I'm sure $19k is fairly easy to obtain.

    Encore production must still be ramping up. XV as well. Benz G class? They just must not make many of them. Range Rover is also ramping up.

    Leaf is doing well, though. Mitsu can't give the i away. They have a $10,000 rebate on 2012s. Yes, 2012, that's not a typo, they still have unsold 2012s.

    $10,000 rebate plus $7500 fed plus $2000 state means almost $20 grand off before you even deal. Pretty soon they'll just give them away like golf carts.

    Of course, they pretty much *are* golf carts.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    Your links got "split".

    Leaf link

    Here's the MB

    17 days to turn for the Encore is pretty good.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That segment is going to explode.

    You heard it here first. Small luxury crossovers will be where the biggest growth is for the next several years.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-23/ford-hybrid-owners-sue-over-fuel-effici- ency-rating-claims.html

    To be fair, fuelly.com reports are also nowhere near what Ford claims.

    The C-Max is rated well above the Prius V, but in the real world it's well behind.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    BTW, Ford injected money into Mazda.
    ____________

    All that merger did was stunt and taint Mazda's growth and development. It did help Ford find some decent chassis.

    For awhile, Mazda had the worst weakest most gas guzzling V6's, and even their 4 bangers were behind the curve.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think that deal was mutually beneficial, actually.

    Mazda had the Navajo and the B series, else they would have had no trucks to sell at all (chicken tax is 25%). No way could they have survived. They begged for 4 door Navajos but never got 'em.

    Ford got the small platforms. The Escort GT I owned was a Mazda Protoge underneath. Every nut and bolt was metric, even the oil filter said "Made in Japan".

    The 91+ Escorts and Tracers all used a Mazda designed chassis, and some (not all) engines. The 1.9l was Ford's, the DOHC 1.8l was Mazda's.

    The Probe was an MX-6 under the skin, too.

    So Ford basically let Mazda design the small cars, and Mazda got trucks in exchange.

    It's a rare case of a synergy that actually worked between car companies from different regions.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Although I never could understand the logic behind the selection of the name "Probe" as a name for a car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    I second that emotion, busiris!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    You said: The PT has easily outsold the Miata, and the Miata is barely on the sales radar today...............

    ______________

    But let's look at this objectively and honestly for a change.

    I looked up on Edmunds TMV calculator that the worth of these cars are:

    2008 Chrysler PT Cruiser Wagon Touring Edition 60,000 Miles Clean condition is worth about $6,500.

    2008 Mazda MX-5 Miata Touring Edition 60,000 miles clean condition is worth over $10,800.

    Now do you really want $6,500 worth of car after 5 years of light use, or do you want $10,800 worth of car after 5 years of light use?

    The math just doesn't add up to say the PT cruiser was more of a success than the Miata; if that was so, it would be worth more.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    edited April 2013
    Honestly for a change? That would be a change, andres.

    I might add, where I live, an '08 PT Touring Edition with that mileage could not be bought at that price. I know, because I've been recently looking for another one, possibly, for my younger daughter. I don't know about the Miata.

    Do you believe the Miata and the PT Cruiser were priced near the same when new? I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that. And like anything where a high volume of product was built (like the PT--and like minivans, for instance)--resale value goes down.

    Let me know what color the sky is where you live, buddy.

    Gee, a Corvette is worth more than a Cobalt, although the Cobalt sold more. I guess if the Cobalt was "really" more successful, it'd be worth more than a Corvette!

    If you have a chance to ask an auto executive, what an automobile company would consider a sales success, why don't you ask if resale value of a used model five years from now figures into that company's profitability. You surely know the answer to that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    At one point Ford thought it might replace the Mustang...LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Small one, 10k units.

    With heat they can curl up, and given Toyota owns a share of Fuji, they're not taking any chances.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    They also sold that car in Britain. The British laughed their heads off at the name, and the car flopped.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited April 2013
    I still think the all-time bad name for a vehicle was the Daihatsu Charade.

    "I own a Charade!". This is a word that is often used to mean a joke.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fitting name for that car.

    The remnants of Daihatsu make the Spark today. They also designed the Sonic and the Buick Encore.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    That would be Dawoo not daihatsu, daihatsu is a Japanese company that still is making Kai class cars, I believe Toyota owns parts of them ( though not sure on that part).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    The Charade was putting on a charade - pretending to be a car. Just like the Ford Aspire aspired to be a car, and a Suzuki Esteem doesn't help one gain self-esteem. You also probably won't see any celebrities in a Celebrity. So many stupid names, and choosing them probably gave someone a huge promotion.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    So many stupid names, and choosing them probably gave someone a huge promotion

    Yes, probably one of those overpaid criminal CEOs you like to cite!

    Anybody else having their emotorcons and formatting options disappear?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    We working on the missing buttons issue. Apologies...

    Problems with the Edmunds website? Post them here…
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Nah, just overpaid underworked smarmy past their prime management types ;)

    Manual HTML still works, just the tools are gone.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2013
    I've always felt success can only be determined if one knows the beginning and ending points.

    Does having a wad if cash = success? If you earned it, probably. If you inherited it, its plain luck, about the same as winning the Powerball lottery.

    On the other hand, if you were born on the wrong side of the tracks, and you managed to stay out of trouble, avoid addictions to booze and drugs, get an education and get married and raise a family, even if you lived paycheck to paycheck, many would consider you to be a success.

    It's all about where one started and ended, and comparing apples to apples.
This discussion has been closed.