Jeep Wrangler

mtngal · July 2005

that their engine sounds louder in really hot, like triple digit, weather? It seems like the Unlimited's engine sounds much louder and labors more when it is really hot. It also seems like the auto tranny shifts differently - I never quite got around to putting in a tranny cooler and now I'm hoping that I'm not looking at tranny problems. I did change the fluid at 30,000 miles, though the first indication I thought I saw in the book was at 60,000 (did I miss something?).

llevine · July 2005

:confuse: I have an '04 wrangler sport...it was purchased with the 30" tire pkg and the 3.73 gear ratio....I have put 33 x12.5 Goodrich AT on with a 2" suspension bushings....clearance is fine and the jeep looks great but now the the car does not shift as original, nor does it hold at speeds in overdrive......the dealer says I need to change the gearing (how much!).....what are my options or do I live with it?

Thanks
llevine

goducks1 · July 2005

Well I bought one of those exhaust manifolds from 1A Auto Parts" as as an ebay auction like this one. Another guy in town here installed one and has had no problems with it. Total price including shipping was about $150. They gave me a UPS tracking number and it's on its way.

I still think I can install this myself with help but haven't decided yet if I will do so.

erickpl · July 2005

You can change your gearing pretty easily.

If you look at your gear ratio and tire size, the chart on the following link will tell you which gear and part number you need.

http://www.raingler.com/tech/speedoChart.asp

A 3.73 gearing with 33" tires would need a 31 tooth speedo gear. The Mopar P/N would be 52067631. You can get this part from a dealer for anywhere from 15 to 30 or so, depending on its popularity.

It is an easy swap to do. Here is an excellent writeup. This site has LOTS of incredible information for DIY'ers. http://www.4x4xplor.com/speedo.html

www.stu-offroad.com is another incredible source.

-Paul

wpowell · July 2005

Mac or others, I would like to go to Mobil 1 synthetic oil as soon as practical. I only have 250 miles on my Wrangler and I suspect I need to run the conventional oil long enough for gaskets and seals to settle in, etc. I am guessing 1,500 miles. Does that sound reasonable? Comments or opinions on synthetic with this engine? I have a very high opinion of Mobil 1 based on very limited, but very positive, personal experience, but I would welcome feedback from you guys. Thanks for helping us new jeepers!

div2 · July 2005

It is no longer necessary to wait several thousand miles before switching to a synthetic oil. I'd probably switch to Mobil 1 at 500 miles. I bought my 1999 Sahara used in 2002 and immediately switched to Mobil 1 10W-30. I also run a Mobil 1 filter and use an OCI of 7500 miles. At 88000 miles the engine runs strong and uses no oil between changes.

mac24 · July 2005

Swapping the drive gear to correct the speedo, and to give a corrected input to the transmission computer, is especially important with a transmission that's controlled electronically rather than hydraulically. It's an easy job, and applicable to all Wrangler models except the Rubicon.

However

................................the gearing change being referred to earlier (to correct the performance after a tire size change), is the final drive gearing in the axles. This needs to be calculated to provide the same overall ratio that existed before the change, and requires a fair degree of skill and equipment to perform. Bearing that in mind though, it's quite possible to do it oneself.

mac24 · July 2005

The main benefits provided by synthetic oils are to engines that operate in arctic temperatures, or are turbocharged and operate in desert temperatures, or have tight engineering tolerances. Only the first one could apply to the Wrangler with a 4.0 I6, which is an old design. A reduction in friction is another benefit that synthetic provides, but this is less of a factor in the 4.0 with it's wide tolerances.

However, that being said, synthetic oil will do absolutely no harm if used in a low to average mileage Wrangler. In higher mileage engines it can leak past oil seals and cause drips, though this is an oil seal problem rather than one of the oil.

As the Wrangler I6 takes a little longer to break in than most modern engines, I'd say run it to 3k on dino, with an intermediate change of oil and filter at 1.5k, then switch to synthetic if you want to.

tsjay · July 2005

Only you can decide if you want to live with the current gearing and the loss of power, or if you want to spend the money to have your front and rear differentials re-geared.

I wouldn't even THINK about doing the re-gearing work myself. To get the proper pre-loading and backlash for a good contact area between the teeth of the pinion gear and the teeth of the ring gear is not something that just anyone can do. It is definitely skilled labor, and you would want someone with experience to do the work.

About the best deal I have heard of for getting the gearing changed (by someone who knows what they are doing) is $150 per axle, just for the labor.

As far as the gearing you need, assuming you want to get back to your original RPM for a given speed, the gear ratio should go up by the same percentage as the tire diameter was increased. You went up 3" in diameter, which was an increase of 10%. Therefore, you would go to 4.10 gearing, which is 10% higher than the original 3.73 ratio.

Tomster
Have you hugged your Jeep today?

erickpl · July 2005

So I had a brain fart! I missed that part about the performance (it was early). Mac is right about the speedo. It can be changed easily on all but the Rubicon, but for performance issues, regearing your axles to 4.11 woud be needed, as Tom mentioned.

-Paul

jeff62301 · July 2005

I've got 33's on my unlimited, our local dealership said they couldn't correct my speedometer for me, they said it wasn't just a matter of changing out a gear or reprogramming the computer.

Our jeep dealership doesn't seem to like jeeps ( i should say wranglers) they tried to talk me out of buying a wrangler, well all they talked me out of was buying it from them.

What exactly do I need to ask them ( or the dealer where I bought it ) to do to recalibrate my speedometer / odometer.

jeff

erickpl · July 2005

Have you had any issues with it since you've had it? Any problems with the TB mud, dirt, or water?

-Paul

mac24 · July 2005

I guess you need to find a better Jeep dealership. If your Unlimited is a Rubicon the speedo needs to be recalibrated by using a DRB service tool. If it's not a Rubicon, then the speedo gear in the transfer case can be changed as described a few posts back.

When changing the speedo gear there are various (sometimes conflicting) charts available to indicate the new gear size. However, the rolling radius of different make/type tires of the same nominal size often varies. I like to use a GPS to determine the percentage of speedo inaccuracy, which then allows you to pick a speedo gear with a tooth count that's changed by that percentage.

jeff62301 · July 2005

thanks mac,

nope, i've got a 2004 ( pre-rubicon unlimiteds).

I've got a friend with a GPS, that I've been thinking of having him check this out for me for quite some time, just not on top of the "to do" list.

I'll plan on doing the speedo gear swap myself.

thanks again,

jeff

keats · July 2005

I switched at the first schedule change (3K). No problems.

lsujeep · July 2005

Well, sorry to take so long in replying. Looks like my jeep will be totaled. The jeep did it's job because everyone is okay. The air bags didn't go off because there was not a frontal collision. The main impact was on the right rear end. The tire was pushed in on the right side and the back gate was bent all the way to the back seat (which was bent also). The floor behind the seat is mashed in up to the back seat. You cannot tell the difference between the bumper and the frame (they are both bent). The guy at the body shop said that the jeep would not start because the wiring harness is disconnected. They have to get a wrecker just to move it so he can make a detailed estimate. His quote "I don't think it'll make it". Sorry I don't have any pictures due to not having a digital camera. When I get my pictures developed, I'll get it onto a disk so I can post them. The next decision will be whether to get another jeep or get a truck. I dread this decision.

erickpl · July 2005

Given that you all survived the accident with no injuries should tell you to get another jeep. If a Suburban can whack ya that good and nobody was injured...

This time get an Unlimited Rubicon! You may want to see if you can salvage anything off the old jeep, like doors, top, stuff you've added, etc... even if you don't use em, you can sell em on eBay.

-Paul

mtngal · July 2005

Wow - that's some damage, did they estimate how fast the Suburban was going when he plowed into you? It sounds like he was going pretty fast. It does sound like the Wrangler will be totaled. And thanks for sharing your experience - it does sound like the Wrangler is safer than many give it credit for. Good luck with your decision - do you really need that extra cargo space in a truck?

goducks1 · July 2005

Well, I have a '98 Wrangler and it's my second Jeep in a row, since I had a '94 bare-bones model before. I was looking at getting a hard top for my '94 and just sort of realized I might as well spring for a new Jeep, esp. since the trade-in would pay almost 1/2 of the cost of the new one. Also I currently live in a state w/o sales tax so I figured I'd eventually buy a new car here.

Realize if you want ABS you have to get the 6-cylinder, it is not an option on the SE. It is worth it I think in the rain; I live in the Pacific NW, so trust that I've had numerous opportunities to learn. Ditto on trac-loc, though it is not the best limited slip available and you will eventually have to replace the clutch packs inside it ~70K I've heard. I'm only at 28K myself right now.

You should go for the 6 cylinder (MUCH better than my old 4) though beware that Chrysler has raised the price of it since 1998 compared to the SE. When I bought mine the price difference was only around $1200 when you subtracted all the other stuff that was standard on the Sport (rear seat, stereo etc). It's quite a bit more than that now.

I hear that the new manual trannys are even worse than the old ones, a concept which I have a hard time grasping. The crappy 3-speed auto tranny is still there. I think what DC needs to do more than anything else for the Wrangler is to find a decent transmission for it.

drewmeister · July 2005

I doubt they'll let you take many of the parts. If you had the dual-tops, etc., that's all calculated in the value insurance will give you. My Dad totalled his XJ, and the only items they would allow out were personal. All the other parts were included in the "totalled" value of the vehicle. The insurance company pays you, then "sells" the vehicle to a salvage company. They are usually not supposed to rebuild them, but we have a dealer here that even specializes in buying them, putting them back together, then selling them at a discount with a salvaged title. Either way, the insurance company (hopefully the suburban-owners') foots the difference between what they owe you and the salvaged value they get for selling the Jeep. So, insurance takes the loss in the end.

For me, I would consider an Unlimited again or a Tacoma Double-Cab. Or maybe the new Toyota FJ, which may not be out soon enough if you need a vehicle immediately.

jeff62301 · July 2005

I've always heard that you have an opportunity to buy the vehicle back for the salvage price from the insurance company.

jeff

mac24 · July 2005

The insurance company can offer it to you (except in FL and a couple of other states, where it's illegal), but they don't have to.

jeff62301 · July 2005

how are approach, breakover, and departure angles calculated?

I know how much the lift improved my ability to climb over things without high centering, I'm just curious how the "numbers'" compare to stock.

jeff

mac24 · July 2005

Just measure them. Park on a flat hard surface and use a yardstick. Place it between the bumper, and the ground at the center of the tire contact point. Then measure the angle the stick makes with the ground. For breakover, place between the ground/tire contact and the lowest part of the crossmember.

lsujeep · July 2005

The guy at the bodyshop said that it was right at the threshold of a total and there is no way of knowing what other damage is there until you get into it. The other guy's insurance adjuster will look at it tommorow. I said something about another vehicle (besides a jeep), and my wife said that she had no problem with me getting another jeep. The jeep did what it was supposed to do. It's totaled but we're not. Next question. I don't think there is any way this will be resolved by monday (August 1st deadline for employee discount). Plus, where I live (Jackson, MS) I don't think they have a jeep just like what I want. The timing is just terrible. If I agree to a jeep although it's not delivered on Monday, is there any way I can get the discount? Also, I had gotten the extended warranty when I bought the jeep (I HAD intended on keeping it until it dropped). Am I entitled on getting reimbursed for that? I think I am entitled to sales tax after the agreed price from insurance.

krispykeith · July 2005

Personally I wouldnt worry about the employee discount. I had a deal on the table prior to the employee discount that was 1500 better than what they will do now due to rebates and trade-in money.

With 05s being this late in a model year I have to believe you will be able to score a jeep for that employee price from here on out.

Personally, I am hoping for a return to the aggressive rebates so I can haggle my price down again and get the rebate money.

redrocker15 · July 2005

My son had significant hail damage to his low mileage, very reliable '99 Cherokee Classic. Enough that the insurace company did total it. We were given the opportunity to buy it for the salvage value, which we did. It's still pebbled with the hail dings, but it was too great a vehicle for him (college student) to give up. The ugly condition doesn't seem to bother him; he prefered to stash the cash difference in his bank account and buy a few assorted guitar/amp goodies.

Doesn't sounds like a good option for isujeep, but it is something to keep in mind for lesser degrees of damage.

myboyblue · July 2005

Personally I wouldnt worry about the employee discount. I had a deal on the table prior to the employee discount that was 1500 better than what they will do now due to rebates and trade-in money.

Because you are not dealing w/ a trade in I would disregard this comment.

I don't think there is any way this will be resolved by monday (August 1st deadline for employee discount).

Now you have a couple of different ways to go:

Option 1: Ask you salesman (woman) if the finance manager has any green slips laying around. If they do ask them if you can have it and explain you situation.

Option 2: I would go talk to a dealer let them know your situation (ASAP) and see if they can date the paper work prior to the employee discount dead-line. They will usually do this if you are willing\able to buy one or two days after the sale. The benifit of this is you are now able to see if there are any additional rebates for the following month you can take advantage of.

Hope this help and good luck w/ the insurance company.

jeff62301 · July 2005

Now, I'm not complaining, but it was stinking hot last week in 100 - 103 degree temps and the top off.

Does anyone have suggestions on brands / models of bikini & safari tops?

I'm leaning toward buying a "sunlighter" from bestop. I like the idea of letting some light in, after all thats why the top is off.

Is there a difference in the different brands of channel? other than $20 in cost?

Jeff

going to do a little trail maintanence tomorrow in preparation for the 4x4 blast on Aug 11-13. http://www.trjc.com/Events/4x4Blast/index.htm

come on over if you have the 11-13 open.

goducks1 · July 2005

Rock Gear ( http://www.rockgearinc.com/ ) also makes some good bikinis if you like the footman loops style, which I find easier than all the straps the Bestop bikinis use, especially if you have a soundbar.

I have a Rock Gear fullback top (a soft top / safari combo) on my TJ and it's of good quality.

myboyblue · July 2005

I am wanting to get some lights up by the windshild. I have seen the relocation brackets but how do you hide the wiring. Anyone have any pics or know where I can see how they are installed?

Thanks

erickpl · July 2005

You have to drill hole in the windshield header or the cowling. That's probably the main reason I haven't put any there (that and CFO approval

). That windshield frame is part of your safety if you don't have a weld or bolt-in cage for the front.

Maybe check with the vendor on installation. I know Warn makes some pretty solid ones. Their manual may show how to install it.

Remember, POST PICS when you do it!

-Paul

drewmeister · July 2005

Hey all,
Just got my speaker adapters from Off-Road Toy Store. They allow you to upgrade to 5 1/4 in the dash vs. the original 4 x 6. The question is, which 5 1/4? Has anyone had good experience? I'm looking at Pioneer and Sony models, but I want to make sure I get a real increase in quality. Infinity Kappa seems to be talked about alot, but they seem very expensive, and I am going to use this Jeep as a Jeep, not a mobile DJ booth

Any suggestions on what to buy?

erickpl · July 2005

I've heard a lot of positive things about the Kappas. You may want to consider something that has a non-paper cone (for obvious water-related reasons).

I too have 5.25's in my dash. I'm running MBQuarts in my fronts and I've installed baffles behind them to direct the sound forward instead of into the dash. I have Kicker 6x9's in the soundbar (aftermarket).

If you are running the factory head unit, you may end up wanting to change your head unit. Factory headunits don't always have the right amperage to properly drive aftermarket speakers. I put in Alpine head units and run 2 amps for my setup and the power output matches the speakers real well.

So just keep in mind, changing the speakers may help you somewhat, but if you get distortion at volume, that means your HU is having a hard time pushing the power to the speakers and an aftermarket stereo and/or amplifier will help greatly.

-Paul

goducks1 · July 2005

I put Polks in my dash and soundbar in 1998 when I bought my Jeep and they are still going strong.

myboyblue · July 2005

Infinity all the way.

I have (2) 5 1/4, (2) 6x9, and (2) 10" subs 750 watt amp, all Infinity. Then to top it off I have the new JVC 3 1/2" dvd/cd/mp3 player w/ jacks for the xbox. It is loud enough to here on my 1 1/2 hr (one way) interstate commute every day, but doesn't vibrate my neighbors house.

Infinity = quality sound.

krispykeith · July 2005

True, my example included a trade-in which accounts for the 1500 dollar difference. The point is still valid, however, and he should be able to negotiate for near or equal the employee discount from here on out and with rebates he may actually do better. I dont think employee discount promotions are any reason to rush into it before he is ready unless you are the type of person that wants a completely haggle-free experience.

Employee pricing is more of a marketing ploy and a great option for people who want to skip negotiating than it is the once in a lifetime opportunity.

goducks1 · July 2005

Well UPS just dropped off the new exhaust manifold. Who want to come over and help install it?

myboyblue · July 2005

Employee pricing IS a once in a life time opportunity.
(not really cuz could go on as long as there are 05's on the lot, but lets get back to my point.)

Why dont you perform an experiment for us?

Next week when the employee discount is over go to the nearest dealership get the best deal you can with rebates and talking down all you can off the MSRP (this will be with no trade) then when your done tell him you get the green slip discount and see what the real final price is. (The fortune teller says, $2000 less)

Please let us all know.

mac24 · July 2005

Employee pricing is more of a marketing ploy and a great option for people who want to skip negotiating than it is the once in a lifetime opportunity.

I agree. It doesn't matter if it's called a rebate, employee pricing, or a discount voucher, it's just a marketing tool to increase sales volume. Incidentally, the dealers in my area aren't handing out green (or any other color) slips so that purchasers can pretend to be employees. The deal is just a line on the invoice that equates to a discount equal to which a notional employee might get.

Bottom line......................never buy the deal, buy the car. I'll guess that if 'employee pricing' goes away, then a method of discounting the price an equal amount will appear. If it doesn't it's still better to get the vehicle in the exact specification you want for a few dollars more, than to get the 'deal of a lifetime' and have to live with the wrong color or equipment for the length of your ownership.

buckminster3 · July 2005

Installing now. My LJ did not have the internal support, so no cutting necessary. Went the cheap route and bought polyfill from the hobby shop.

I definitely want to upgrade the HU at some point. I've had two Alpine's now, both at about $199, loved 'em both. Would do so again if I can ease my own "top down" security worries. I'm a little paranoid.

I'm off to find out whether red or green is positive, as the stock wires weren't labeled...I'll post a pic later tonight.

krispykeith · July 2005

I already did the comparison experiment the first week of this month. With a 1000 dollar rebate on Wranglers (which is now 500 dollars) I was able to get to around 100 dollars less purchase price without introducing my trade-in. In other words, after a week of haggling my purchase price was 400 dollars more than they will give it to me for at employee discount. With the rebate being 500 more it came out to a price 100 dollars better.

I will say it again, employee pricing is great for a certain segment of the population, but at the end of the day the deal is not usually any better than you could have gotten any other month.

I guess your opinion is different and I will respect that.

All I am trying to say to the guy is dont panic about getting it done by the end of the month. All it takes is a little extra effort and negotiating.

myboyblue · July 2005

I am sorry but this is not an opinion it is based on facts.

Now about this comparison you did at the beginning of the month, very doubtful since the employee discount was already there and the employee price would be the only one they would give you. I guarantee you are filling people heads with the wrong info. But I guess thats what happens on forums. So why were you looking? Because you knew we were going to be having this conversation or do you want a jeep now and just want to wait a little longer and pay more later?

Now I completely agree w/ you and the trade-in. They will try to stick it to you. Just do your online research Kelly Blue Book, Ebay, and of course Edmunds.

FYI:
Now about the green slip comment I made earlier. This is what they call there employee discount. They also have a supplier discount, but no color name. Now gm's discount is A-Buyer, and they also have a supplier discount (3% below invoice). I supplier is a company (but not all, just major distributors) that supply, but not limited to, engines, trannies, exterior, & interior lights.

Also if you are looking and maybe wanting an automatic ask if they have any w/ the 1000 rebate (dont know if it is still available, but doesn't hurt to ask), these were made before a certain date. This is something that your dealer wont tell you, but does exist (or did.) This is a spiff that Jeep will give to the dealerships, they sometimes call it dealer cash.

I know I am going on and on and I am sorry, so if there is anything I did not explain well enough please ask.

bleumtn · July 2005

engine cranks but no start and flat gauges, TOO [all identical issues!] -- this 98 Wrangler 4L never left the garage. Had you had any luck fixing this since?? Any more/other suggestions?

krispykeith · July 2005

No, the June rebates were extended to July 5, which is when the employee discount started. The first week of July was still under previous months incentives.

I am not trying to fill anyone's head with any misinformation and I apologize if anyone took it that way. I was just reporting what my deal was on the table and I know others have done similar deals this summer.

I am not sure why you think I am trying to fill people's heads with any information when the whole point of these forums is to share experiences and take from that what you will. I believe even Edmunds(I could be wrong, it might have been in USA Today or similar) ran an article describing how the Employee pricing can be a good deal but isnt necessarily any better than the other incentives or haggle price. It is just a really nice option for some people by making the experience easier. Are they trying to fill people's heads with misinformation as well?

As with anything in the forums, your mileage may vary.

llevine · July 2005

Thank you and yes I have hugged my Jeep today!

mac24 · July 2005

I am not trying to fill anyone's head with any misinformation and I apologize if anyone took it that way.

I certainly didn't take it that way, and it would appear that only one person did.

As you correctly said, 'employee pricing' is just a discount currently on offer, but it's not necessarily the best deal.

As far as I'm concerned the price the dealer offers, 'employee pricing plus' or whatever, is the starting point for negotiation.

embeeduece · July 2005

Here's the USA Today article on employee pricing.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-07-10-employee-discount-usat_x.htm

-Mike

koolbreeze2 · July 2005

I agree. I switched all my speakers to Infinity when I bought the Jeep. Kept the stock radio due to leaving top down all the time and did not want to worry about the theft issue. Very satisified with the present sound. KB2

tidester · July 2005

Since the discount is (almost) officially over let's get back to discussing the Wrangler. I suggest News & Views for further discussions on the discount matter.

tidester, host

Jeep Wrangler

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