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Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Yes, and it's the tire diameter not the wheel diameter that makes the difference. Also, take note of recent posts about changing the speedo gear in the t/c to correct your speedo/odo.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    What TV programs are there about offroading?

    my cable options are limited, but the restaraunt ( Bar ) where I spend all my time and money gets about every station available, I'd hope they wouldn't mind if I watched a little TV in there while drinking a few beverages.

    jeff
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    The Rubicon wheels are hub centric. So that is one big positive for them. I've read many posts about on the Rubicon forum I frequent about people getting rid of their Moabs and going with aftermarket wheels (lug centric) and having all kinds of balancing issues. Many of them ending up switching back to the Moabs. If I were going to buy new wheels I would go for the AEV wheels. They are hub centric and have a very similar look to the Moab. AEV
  • mike_cmike_c Member Posts: 8
    Look for Superlift's Offroad Adventures on the Outdoor Channel. It's on at various times during the week. On Saturday and Sunday, Spike TV shows Xtreme 4x4 at noon central time.
    If anyone knows of any others, I'd like to know about them too.
  • greddengredden Member Posts: 30
    I recently bought a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Sahara. It has the 30" tires on it. How can I figure out if it has the 3.73 Axle and the Dana 44 rear end? Also, If it does not, what would be a good price to pay and have them installed. Thanks

    Greg from Southern Indiana
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    I record 4x4 TV every week. They've done some pretty cool episodes. Recently, the host Doug, took a new Rubicon through trails in Moab.
    4x4 TV
  • myboybluemyboyblue Member Posts: 56
    PRICES JUST JUMPED TO $2.49 LAST NIGHT IN NORTHERN INDIANA AND NOW THERE IS TALK THAT THIS WILL BE A BARGAIN BY THE END OF THE YEAR. WITH MY 180 MILE ROUND TRIP TO WORK EVERYDAY I MIGHT HAVE TO DUMP MY BABY. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO HELP ON GAS MILAGE?

    AND PUSHING HER IS NOT AN OPTION :P
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Your dealer can give you the build details if you take in your VIN, or DC will do it through the Jeep.com site. Otherwise, take a look and see! There should be a metal tag on one of the cover bolts that will show the ratio and if it's a (an) L/S. The D35 cover is almost circular and the fill/level plug is rubber.

    You'd probably spend between $2-4K to change the front r&p and fit a D44 in the rear.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Please don't SHOUT. :mad:

    Assuming your vehicle is properly serviced and within specs, your gas mileage will be completely under the influence of your right foot. The long established tried and true methods work very effectively.

    However, a Wrangler is not an economic vehicle for long distance commuting, and never has been. Poor aerodynamics contribute greatly and there's little to be done about that except driving more slowly, preferably below 45 mph, which is impracticable on a regular commute.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    if I hadn't paid this Jeep off 3.5 years ago I'd fret about it more. Car payments + $2.25 gas (price around here) would be painful. But since it's just gas and oil changes now, plus occasional repairs (see the above post on my manifold replacement), I can live with it.

    I do doubt very much that my next vehicle will be any sort of truck though, it will be something that gets at least 30mpg on the highway. Might keep the Jeep as a second vehicle.

    And actually, if you incorporate the tax money we are currently throwing into our oh-so-fruitful Middle East policy, we Americans are paying about $7/gal.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    when I bought my jeep, i had every intention of driving my volvo for work ( 800 - 1000 miles / month) and longer trips ( to my parents / college friends houses / etc ) but the jeep is SO MUCH FUN to drive I find myself driving it all the time.

    you could pick up a small car / better gas mileage for commuting / keep the jeep for your fun driving.

    jeff
  • myboybluemyboyblue Member Posts: 56
    Please don't SHOUT.

    SORRY MY CAPS IS BROKE :P
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    SORRY MY CAPS IS BROKE

    I advise getting them fixed. People tend to ignore messages typed in ALL CAPS.

    tidester, host
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    I've heard that this is the last year for the 7/70 drivetrain warranty. On 06 models it will end at 3/36. Has anyone seen anything official? If so, this seems like a major incentive to get an '05...and a disincentive for buying any Jeep in 06 or later because it shows D-C must have high Jeep driveline warranty expenses. Its surprising how little information on 06 Jeep specs is available; google 06 Jeep and all you get is Commander hype.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard........yada yada yada

    So you joined this forum today just to start an argument? I don't think so! You're obviously a regular here (if not actually 'myboyblue'), so use your regular name if you have something to say that you want to be taken seriously.
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    Yep, that's a fact. It's going back to 3/36 for the '06 model year. Not that big of a deal, really. You can barely get them to cover anything under it anyway.
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    (Keats)

    Thats not very encouraging. Is the problem D-C resistance? Do they underpay dealers for warranty work? Most dealers from whom I've bought cars from are pretty cooperative since warranty work is added shop revenue. If there's any vehicle on the planet that should have all the bugs worked out, it should be the Wrangler. Is there anywhere on the web I can research the quality of Jeep warranty support more?
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    I've had 0 problems with the Rubicon, and I bought in May of '04. But I've had several problems with our '04 Grand Cherokee. I have all of our vehicles serviced at a GoodYear shop down the street. They called me out one day to let me know that 3 out of 4 of my shocks were leaking. The dealership said it was normal. So I politetly asked them, "So, the shock that isn't leaking is abnormal?" At the same time, my front brake rotors were warped and needed to be replaced. This was at 18 thousand miles. They would not replace them under warranty which I found ludicrous. We don't live up in the Rockies and ride the brakes down a mountain every day. I have also had two other problems related to the steering column that were fixed under warranty. So I'm batting .500 which isn't too bad I guess. I think the real issue is that DC pushes back on the dealers. I think these so called "Five Star" dealers are under even more pressure from DC to go along with the program.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I've been reading the posts here for awhile but I did just join today. I'm not trying to start an argument. Are you?.........

    If you have been here a while you'll know that the atmosphere here is one of friendly conversation, which is a contrast to the forums on some other sites.

    You said in your earlier post "This is the internet.........Dig?", so I would assume that you are aware of the normal rules of etiquette that you don't shout (and ALL CAPS is universally recognized as shouting), and it wouldn't be usual to make your first post an aggressive challenge to one of the forum hosts. The suggestion was made that 'myboyblue' should fix his caps lock problem, not replace his computer.

    It doesn't bother me that you make personal insults in your second post, "If you want to be taken seriously stop acting like a jerk.", but it does contravene the agreement you made with Edmunds when you asked permission to post here.

    How about making your third post a positive contribution to this forum?
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    Who has ever heard of a broken caps lock,anyway? I've been in IT for 10 years--never scene it. I believe, Mac, your theory is correct about the identity of this fellow.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Posting in all caps is rude and persistent use of them will result in posts being removed as uncivil. As will posts with name-calling in them.

    Let's get back to the Wrangler, shall we?

    Steve, Host
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    I thought that post would have a short shelf life. Thanks, Steve. So Mac, you never answered me about the Ramsey 8.5 e winch. Are you familiar, any opinion?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I've normally got an opinion! ;)

    Ramsey make good winches but they don't have as good a reputation for customer service as Warn do. My winch of choice is a MileMarker 9000lb two speed hydraulic. The winch on my H1 is a factory fitted 12000lb electric Warn, but it comes from the industrial series, rather than the recreational one. If I was buying an electric winch for a Wrangler I'd probably get a Warn 8274.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    The warped rotors is a problem on JGC is universal, ergo it is "normal" in the same way that every single Jeep from 91-99 with the 4.0L--which would be most Jeeps built then--gets a cracked exhaust manifold. Oh how I love the logic of DC.

    Drivetrain problems I've had on my '98 with 79K miles on it: needed a new coil at 45K or thereabouts, leaking rear differential at 55K, leaking pinion seal at the rear differential at 70K. None covered under warranty since the 98s only have the 3/36 warranty.

    Other non-drivetrain stuff: leaking radiator at 70K, intermittently dead gauges at 30K (covered), the aforementioned cracked exhaust manifold for quite a while that I finally just fixed, can't remember what else.

    I'd say the vehicle has been a B overall on reliability. The manifold is the only one that really bugs me since DC denied it was a common issue so strenuously when I spoke to them on the phone. Gal got real quiet when I told her the dealer mechanics had confirmed to me "all Jeeps get that" as if I didn't know it already. I'm sure DC called the dealership afterwards up to explain the necessity of denying any knowledge of a bad manifold design. Mtngal, do you ever sign up on that class action lawsuit on the manifolds?

    DC's behavior on the cracked manifolds has been sufficiently irresponsible to make it highly unlikely I would ever buy another DC vehicle.
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    Goducks, yeah, I brought the warped rotor issue to the service manager's attention and he said they fixed that in 2002, which they actually had redesigned the calipers. I told him that if they really fixed the issue then my rotors would not be warped. They even had a nice front rotor kit in stock. They actually stock a kit with two front rotors at the dealer! *lol* Of course they do. They probably see it 3 times a week. At least it was fairly cheap, about $200 as I recall, but of course, if I have to do that every 18K then it will get expensive.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    DC's behavior on the cracked manifolds has been sufficiently irresponsible to make it highly unlikely I would ever buy another DC vehicle.

    I'm not defending DC here, though I do think it's unrealistic to expect a new manifold on seven year old vehicle, but I think you could find behavior that you'd see as irresponsible from every vehicle manufacturer if you look hard enough. It's a shame that it would preclude you from ever buying another Wrangler.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Too late to edit my last post to include this, but this is the Warn 8274-50 I was referring to:

    image

    and here's a Hydraulic MM like mine installed on a Rubicon:

    image

    and here's an article on how the installation was done:

    Rubicon/MM
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    Yeah, that winch is a monster! A far cry from the little Ramsey 8.5e.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Mac, I didn't expect them to make an exception for me, so I wasn't really thinking I would get a new manifold on my '98 TJ. What I'm talking about is the "deny the problem" attitude, even after redesigning the headers in 2000 to fix it. What I would expect is what Ford did with the blown head gaskets on their popular 3.8L (or was it 3.9L) V6, the engine they stuck in everything from Mustangs to minivans, and which eventually they offered to compensate anyone for who had to have that serious repair done. My former girlfriend and I both had that blown head gasket on Fords with that engine. Eventually, Ford took responsibility. It was a serious and expensive design flaw. I don't remember if it was the result of a class-action or pressure from the state of California, but eventually they sent out the checks if you had the receipt for the repairs.

    So yes, I think DC has acted shoddily with the manifolds. If just mine had cracked, so be it. I would expect nothing from DC. But everyone's cracked and they kept the design for nearly a decade anyway. And by everyone I mean everyone--I hang out with the Jeep crowd and don't know anyone with a Cherokee or Wrangler who didn't get it on the 4.0L engine. Way higher percentages than the Ford head gasket numbers.

    So yeah, maybe it's a shame, but it turns me off to DC in a big way. I'm sure there are a lot of other Jeep owners who feel the same way. So be it. Apparently accounting feels it's an acceptable loss, like with the JGC rotors issue. I called them more to let them know that their indifference would cost them at least one repeat customer. I got off relatively light in terms of expense on this repair--it's their attitude towards everyone that bugs me.

    Jeeps are great, unique vehicles with a rich past. This is the second Wrangler I've owned in a row, I had a '94 YJ before this. Doesn't mean I'll put up with anything though.
  • guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    Mac is right, every manufacturer has some form of ghost in their closet that they will go to long lengths to deny. Of the vehicles I currently own, know problems include: 1999 Buick Regal, 3800 engine with warped manifold (already failed), 2001 Ford F150 aluminum heads with insufficient spark plug thread surface (waiting to fail and spit out plugs), 2004 Jeep 4.0L (nothing known yet).
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    So yeah, maybe it's a shame, but it turns me off to DC in a big way.

    I think it's a case of picking your battles. On a macro level the loss of one Jeep sale is negligible to DC, but it'll represent the loss of a large chunk of potential enjoyment to you. Sometimes it's better to swallow a perceived injustice if the overall result is to your ultimate benefit.
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    On a macro level the loss of one Jeep sale is negligible to DC

    I disagree. One bad experience posted on the web can turn off many prospective buyers. D-C makes a lot more than the cost of a manifold relacement on a Wrangler sale. In the past car makers covered chronic engine troubles routinely to avoid bad PR and alienated buyers. This discussion has sure cooled my Jeep buying jets. I'm gonna do more digging on reliability and D-C support. There are just too many bullet-proof alternatives out there to settle for mediocrity. This is especially true since, at $25K+ MSRP, its not like a Wrangler Unlimited is a cheap vehicle that you might expect lousy after-sale treatment with.

    BTW, most cars have an EPA-mandated extended warranty covering emission-related components for more than the normal drivetrain. Sure seems to me the manifold is a major component there. Did you check your emissions system warranty booklet? On my Audi, even the turbos are covered in the emissions warranty 'til 80K miles.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    There are just too many bullet-proof alternatives out there to settle for mediocrity.


    I'm afraid I don't see the quality of the Wrangler as mediocre, and I'm certainly not aware of a bullet proof alternative, let alone an equivalent.

    I think we'll have to agree to disagree. :shades:
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Sometimes it's better to swallow a perceived injustice if the overall result is to your ultimate benefit.

    Ah, that's the rub, isn't it? But knowing that the company will not pay you the least bit of mind further than their lawyers tell them is legally necessary decreases my enjoyment. So if everyone's transmissions fall out at 40K miles, good luck with it, we're not responsible and anyway we're not aware of it being a widespread problem. Or the dealership tells you it's "normal."

    I am not a hardcore Jeep defender and after driving Wranglers for over a decade now it's unlikely I would pick another to be my daily driver anyway, I'd like to shift back to driving a car, maybe keeping the Jeep as a weekend toy. I always have to have at least one convertible in the stable :). If asked about Wranglers from someone else, though--someone considering buying one for the first time--I'd tell them the following: "look, I've been driving them for 10+ years now. The TJs are much easier to live with than the YJs. It's got loads of character and it is as fun to take offroad or drive around town with the doors off as it looks. The 4.0L is a great, very durable engine that you may get 250K miles out of, though it's a bit thirsty. But it can be a bit wearing to live with as a daily driver, it's no sedan or even pickup truck. And be aware that Chrysler will not stand behind it if there is any serious design flaw. They will deny the problem even exists. They did with the exhaust manifold, even when nearly 100% of owners had it crack. So keep that in mind when making your purchase."

    None of that would deter the Jeep faithful apparently, but it may deter a lot of other folks. It's all good. I'm not telling people not to buy Jeeps, just telling them the facts. It's no Honda as far as reliability is concerned. It's about average for an American car. Better than my friends who drive VWs, worse than those that drive Toyos and Hondas. DC is content with that and not going any extra mile for the customer. We can all see how well this strategy has been working for the Big 2.5 as of late--their share of the market just keeps dropping. And I'll probably do my small part to contribute to that decline when I buy my next new car.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    BTW, most cars have an EPA-mandated extended warranty covering emission-related components for more than the normal drivetrain. Sure seems to me the manifold is a major component there. Did you check your emissions system warranty booklet?

    yes, and spoke to DC. That covers your catalytic converter and that's it, as far as they are concerned.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    ................be aware that Chrysler will not stand behind it if there is any serious design flaw.

    I wouldn't disagree with your description, except that the above should be amended to read ".........be aware that Chrysler may not stand behind it after the warranty period if there is any serious design flaw."

    Don't forget that ultimately, the warranty service you receive depends as much on the dealership and your relationship with them. Some dealers will go above and beyond, while others will make you wonder how they stay in business.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    That covers your catalytic converter and that's it, as far as they are concerned.

    Covers the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) as well.
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    "There are just too many bullet-proof alternatives out there to settle for mediocrity".

    I previously owned three Mitsu Monteros and explored a good part of the Southwest with them. IMO they define bullet-proof. I'm not into rock-crawling; just looking for an alternative to the current crop of $40K "SUVs" for dependable trail use. I do hope the Wrangler Unlimited is it, because I like the look and utility; but for $25+K, I do expect more than Jeep mystique.
  • guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    PS - I forgot to mention the defect in the 1979 (AMF) Harley Davidson Super Glide that I still own. In 1983 at 3,000 miles the mainshaft in the transmission failed. Seems they forgot to heat treat it. Looked like the end had been put in an pencil sharpener. It now has 7,000 miles on it and runs like new. Obviously, I now enjoy driving my Wrangler more.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Mac, I agree with you on that, they did cover work when under warranty, which in my case was a 3/36 warranty, this being before they had the extended drivetrain warranty (which apparently they will soon end).

    I'm not necessarily trying to steer anyone away from an Unlimited, and be aware that this manifold design has been changed since 2000. As far as I know, the cracked headers are no longer a common problem. You should definitely still consider a Wrangler. I stand by my praise of the 4.0L I-6 engine itself, there are few truck engines as durable on the market today. There is just some other stuff to consider is all.
  • drperez007drperez007 Member Posts: 30
    Okay, gang, I'm still a little confused. If I put the 16 inch Rubicon Moab wheels and 31" tires on my '05 X (with Rocky Mountain Edition package--3.73 and Dana 44 axle), I understand they'll fit, but what kind of ride will I get (assuming I use the standard Goodyear tires)?

    Next question, if I keep the current 30" tire and Ravine (15") wheels, can I step the tires up a size or two without rubbing or having to make any modifications? Can I go to 31.0? I'm thinking about Bridgestone Dueler Revo's.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Steve

    And remember, let's be careful out there.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Goodyear MT/Rs ride slightly more harshly than GSAs, but in practice I doubt you'd notice the difference.

    31" tires measure approximately 31" in diameter regardless of the size of the wheel they're made to fit. So yes, they'll fit your RME 'X' on a Moab or a Ravine, though you may have to fit a washer or two under the steering stops.............it varies from vehicle to vehicle.
  • myboybluemyboyblue Member Posts: 56
    That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard........yada yada yada

    So you joined this forum today just to start an argument? I don't think so! You're obviously a regular here (if not actually 'myboyblue'), so use your regular name if you have something to say that you want to be taken seriously.

    Did I miss something today? Someone mad? Sorry Steve I guess I should have explaned better. I spilled coffee on my keyboard at work this morning and all I could get was caps. Also Mac I have used my name in past posts, didn't know the regs didn't like it if you didn't leave your name.

    P.S. Gas went back down to 2.29 today so I feel a little better.

    Thanks
    Jamie
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I get busy at work today and all kinds of things happen here!

    I own both a '98 Wrangler Sport and a '04 Unlimited. The Sport was the first Jeep I had ever owned (purchased new), and I bought an extended (100,000 mile - years never matter to me) warranty that I never used. Yes, my manifold failed, and yes, I did sign up on the web site for the class action suit. My manifold failed after 100,000 miles on the odo, and it took me to 115,000 before I bothered to get it repaired. However, that one problem didn't stop me from buying another Wrangler.

    In fact, based on my experience with the Sport, I didn't bother buying an extended warranty for the Unlimited, and wouldn't have even if the drivetrain was only 35,000 miles. The Unlimited has not had a problem (barring the auto dimming mirror doing sort-of weird things for a while, then clearing up on its own) so far and it's got over 48,000 miles so far. I think the 2000 Tacoma (we hated and finally sold last year) ended up needing a new radiator somewhere around 50,000 miles or so, so the Unlimited isn't any worse than our old Toyota.

    Yes, the gas mileage isn't a high point for this vehicle - and our gas is now over $2.50 for 87 octane, so those of you further east should be grateful. Our commute of 150 miles round trip might not be as much as Jamie's 180 commute, but it's bad enough. Would I get another Wrangler? Absolutely! Are we considering cars or vehicles that get great gas mileage? Absolutely! But I'm not in any rush to replace the Sport - it runs great and was paid off a long time ago. And I'm willing to keep buying gas because I love the Unlimited that much...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hi Jamie, from your past (sentence case) posts I figured it was just a temporary keyboard issue. Some took offense to netiquette suggestions and others responded, so a few off-topic posts were removed. No biggie.

    Steve, Host
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Member Posts: 102
    Blue:

    It seems to me that if these were dealer-installed options (which sounds like the case), any adjustments to correct the speedo/odo should have been done by them as well. I'm not an attorney, barrister or anything of that sort (remember, I'm the magnet guy!), but logically "Joe Public" would have no inclination to doubt his factory speedo/odo calibration for a new vehicle purchased from a reputable dealer. What if a little old lady had purchased your Jeep (highly unlikely, I know) - - I'm guessing she'd be ticked off when she got a ticket for driving 66 is a 60 zone especially when her speedo showed 60! It's very doubtful that she would've questioned her new vehicle's calibration....

    I'd side with you in this case, given that they were dealer-installed options. If you had modified them yourself or with another shop, then that would be a different story. This is all just my opinion, of course. "Your actual mileage may vary..."

    Gary
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Member Posts: 102
    My first inclination has always been the "no-drill" approach. However, if there was a modification I wanted that required drilling, I'd go for it. Wranglers tend to be pretty customizeable vehicles, and within reason I believe it's very acceptable. (Read that to mean "very little negative impact on resale value" ;) ) Bikini headers that require drilling wouldn't phase me at all.

    The only suggestion would be to follow the old woodworking adage: "measure twice, cut (or in this case, drill) once".
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    My neighbors trees / bushes had grown into the alley, they were scraping against my Jeep and everyone else's vehicles. They said I could cut them back and asked me to cut down a couple others while I was at it. A third neighbor stopped by and asked if we wanted to cut the high limbs. He had just bought a surplus firetruck with a 65 foot boom. He started it up and I drove it around the neighborhood and parked it where we needed it, he ran the boom and I pruned / chainsawed branches.

    It was a blast to drive, not quite as agile as the jeep.

    No more branches to scrape my jeep, only scratches will be trail rash.

    Jeff

    see I got the word jeep in there a couple times,,,

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/jeff62301/2005%208%20firetruck/DSCF1723Medium.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/jeff62301/2005%208%20firetruck/DSCF1730Medium.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/jeff62301/2005%208%20firetruck/DSCF1734Medium.jpg
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Lol, I thought I was lucky to have a neighbor with a crane. A firetruck with a boom would be real handy around here - I need to do some painting and I can't tolerate being up an extension ladder for long.

    Steve, Host
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Would your neighbor like to take a road trip out to California? I could sure use that fire truck to trim a couple of cottonwoods in my front yard. There are high branches that grow over my driveway and drop sap on my soft top! I didn't mind so much with the hard top because cottonwood sap seems to disolve in water pretty easily, but I wouldn't think it would be good for the soft top, would it?
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