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Toyota Tundra Problems
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Comments
Forged piston question comes to mind
Oil filter drain back valve and "dry starts" is another.
It is still correct that if you do not have a good oil filter with a good anti-drian back valve in it, you might have more start-up clatter. That is a factor in start-up clatter.
It is also correct that forged pistons pistons Shrink more when cold than non-forged ones and that also has an impact on start-up clatter.
Please prove me wrong or STFU.
You do not need a roll cage, just a helmet.
Piston Slap
Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm
You then posted the forged piston link( gotta laugh at the shrinking piston comment though) I simply asked if the toy had forged pistons.
I did not attack you like your fellow toy brother did. I just simply want to know if the toy clatter in 60% of tundras is due to lack of oil upon start up or larger clearances for the pistons that forged units require. Basically you've given 2 reasons why there is cold start up noise. One reason shouldn't happen if you use a quality filter and the other wouldn't hold water if the motor doesn't use forged pistons. Please read the first two sentences of your link....Thank you.
Pretty sure I also explained to you there are forged pistons out there that will allow .002-.003 piston to wall clearance which is near cast piston clearances. TRW makes 'em and I used them in a 5.0 build up. Guess what? NO CLATTER!!!
I admit I get a kick at some of the comments made(not just by you). The disc vs drum comment about surface area and drums are better was a classic. I just was hoping you could explain your reasoning about clatter. A clatter which I don't feel should be accepted whether it be a toy GM or Ford.
On a side note;
I've killed cones in my Cobra and drag race it at the track quite a bit. After taking a ride in one of the Richard Petty stock cars around LVMS at "only" 160 I realized I'm no where near a race car driver. Anyone that thinks that NASCAR doesn't involve real driving should try that out sometime, it was a rush.
1. It can be caused by the oil filter. Anti-drainback valves ar not bullet proof. Oil will seep through the filter back into the oil pan over night. Why is that so hard to believe. Oil settles in the oil pan overnight. When you start the car the next day it is noisey until the oil circulates properly in all the moving parts.
2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."
3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."
What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
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Here's where I question you. The drain back valve may let the oil back into the filter but it will not all go into the pan, The filter will remain full.(unless it's mounted up side down) This may cause clatter (with Fram filters being notorious for cardboard valves). But a quality filter SHOULDN'T do it and if it does you should change it. My guess is if your motor still clatters after 1 or 2 Mobil 1 filters or K&N's or WIX it most likely is not the culprit.
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2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."
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I know that forged pistons expand at a greater rate and have larger initial clearances. Ford uses forged in their trucks and had a problem for a while before tightening up the tolerances.
JUST BECAUSE A MOTOR RUNS FORGED INTERNALS THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT WILL HAVE COLD PISTON SLAP. Witness the '87-92 mustang GT's that had forged pistons. Does toy use forged pistons???
I've said it before and will say it again; if a motor clatters because of loose forged pistons it means the tolerances aren't as tight as they could be and there is just that much less "cushion" before rebuild
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3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."
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Your point??? If a motor has piston knock on hyper pistons I would say that the tolerances are too loose.....see my theory above about longevity.
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What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
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Don't know.
Epilogue;
One of the few things I've EVER agreed with bama on is that a new engine should not clatter on start up. If it's a filter drain back problem; change filters. If it's loose piston tolerances, I feel the manufacturer should remedy it (early Ford 4.6/5.4)
In your poll 40% did not clatter. Why???
Because 40% of the respondents to his poll actually owned Tundras?
http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar129832.htm
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm
Here is a direct quote from the second article:
Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.
Now about the poll. I think those who report no clatter either live in warmer climates or start their trucks in warm garages. In my truck, I only started hearing the three distinct taps on start-up when the weather became colder in SoCal. I voted in the poll that my truck had no star-up clatter, but now it does due to colder weather. I suspect the same is happening with other truck owners. Moreover, i mostly hear mine when I start the truck with the door open. With the door shut I hear nothing.
It is too bad that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Nice theory anyway. I suggest you resume posting when you know what you are talking about. Have a nice day.
As for the poll, I explained to you in details the shortcoming of internet polling. There is no need to repeat that again.
Oh - Do you mean your claim that the Tundra has forged pistons? LMAO!
You believe in evidence, right? I could be wrong, but so could you.
Why is your claim w/o proof more legitimate than mine?
Please find evidence that the Tundra has Cast alloy pistons.
"Fine, prove me wrong? Show me that the Tundra does NOT have forged pistons."
You are making some sweeping claims about Tundras and engine knock. You are attributing it to non-existent forged pistons. When you can back up what you post with fact, do so. It will greatly help your credibility.
You are even posting in GM topics claiming to be an expert there. Heck, you don't even know what type pistons Tundras have - a truck you claim to own. You need to get your act together.
Quad - you are confused as usual - the Knockerados have problems with loose rings. Just go to the GM engine knock forum and read all about it. No need to thank me.
Ak - The Lexus 470 and Toyota Landcruiser use the exact same part number cast hypereutectic pistons as the Tundra.
And AK - towing in 4WD giving you more towing capacity? You have got to be joking! Is this the best the Chev pack could come up with?
Ball Hitch Towing
Rado 4x2 with 3.42 gears:6600 lbs
Rado 4x2 with 3.73 gears:7600 LBS
Rado 4x4 with 3.73 gears:7300 Lbs
Rado 4x4 with 4.10 gears:8300 LBS
All are with auto(like mine) and a 6 1/2 foot bed
Heres some 5th wheel info for ya.
Rado 2wd with 3.42:6600 lbs
Rado 2wd with 3.73:7600 LBS
Rado 4x4 with 3.73:7300 LBS
Rado 4x4 with 4.10:8300 LBS.
Still think I am lying?? Go to any GM site to see for yourself. They should have the numbers for the 2001 line still. If not get a brochure from any Chevy Dealer. Also take a look at your Tundra's broschure sometime. Take the specs of a 4x2 and compare to a 4x4. And the little Tundra 4x2 owner can't stand that he can get outpulled by any 4x4 out their(Tundras included) and I'll tell you what Bama, Since all you guys do in Bama anyway is eat, after dinner take apart your engine and tell us what you think it has?? And since you live in Alabama and own what you own I would watch out for the lynch mob son. That's not a good Truck decision in the south....
Dry starts are not a problem for the knockwrust Tundra. According to Bama, toymota made them hard to start just for this purpose, circulating the oil before that nasty spark smokes the oil film off the walls, and the associated galling, scuffing etc. LMAO!!!
Form that point we need to find out why it happens so we propose theories to try and explain. At least I am trying to explain why it happens. What have you contributed as to the cause of cold start-up? All you do is reject all explanations and YOU DO NOT provide alternatives.
Please tell us why does the Tundra have knock on cold start-up?
Please prove to me that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Simply repeating it over and over again does not make it true.
You have not provided me with one iota of evidence that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Please provide me with evidence that the Tundra uses hypereutectic cast pistons.
I am waiting
Rado 2wd with 3.73:7600 LBS
Rado 4x4 with 3.73:7300 LBS
So the answer is simple...the 2wd is rated by GM to haul and tow more....AND be careful cause Mod is ready to jump all over you on this in another topic.
GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW!!
I would buy the Tundra in your situation. Currently - you can get pretty much ANY truck for invoice. Toyota is currently running 0% financing for 3 years. My brother bought one just a week ago. He did the 0% financing.
I have owned a Toyota Tundra for two years and it has been flawless. My brother drove mine and fell in love with it. He previously owned a Toyota pickup that he drove 150,000 miles before a drunk rear ended it and totalled it. I drove it shortly before it was totalled and it ran like new. I talked to many people who owned Toyota pickups before buying mine and they universally raved about how reliable they were.
If you buy one - the only upgrade I would suggest is upgrading to Bilstein shocks (assuming you do not buy the TRD package which comes with them.) I did not get the TRD package because I do not like decals of any type on any vehicle I own. I also did not like the way the black fender flares looked.
I drove the standard shocks for two years before changing to Bilsteins and it was a definite improvement.
This guy with the selective towing figures(ya think he really thought no one would notice the different ratios?) now says the GM coolant ruins rings!!!??? Someone taught him about TDC and BDC and dwell time and he can't wait to share his new found knowledge.
I'm just glad he's on your side. LMAO!!!
"I am not making sweeping claims. As I said before all this is SPECULATION. "
Hey - my apologies! I did not know that you didn't know what the heck you were talking about.
What I am wondering is - What good is it to speculate?
In the future, be more obvious about your speculating please. Do like Quad does, then it will be obvious. For example: "I think that those piston thingies MAY be forged."
See how it works?
"According to Bama, toymota made them hard to start just for this purpose, circulating the oil before that nasty spark smokes the oil film off the walls, and the associated galling, scuffing etc. LMAO!!!"
I never made such a statement. Were you lying this time or just confused (as usual)?
I asked you two things:
1. Show me evidence that the Tundra has cast pistons.
2. Why do Tundras have start up clatter?
To get everyone back on topic.....what was the final outcome, or has one been established regarding the warping rotors on the Tundras?
So, 30k miles and it has been in the shop once for a couple hours. It has cost me nothing more to operate than gasoline, 5 oil changes and an air filter during the time I've owned it.
I really would like to see Toyota build a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton truck though. I'm sure it would be a winner.
BTW, post #342 is a perfect post. Perfect in the way it says nothing that relates to the topic. I guess you could call it a troll looking for responses. Best to ignore that type of person as they are really persistant....like a fly on s***.
Seriously, my truck has been flawless so far and I hope it remains that way. The can noise was so noticeable because the truck is so quiet.
You just quoted me the difference between the Rado 4x2 with 3.42 gears which has a 6600 lbs tow rating
The 4x2 with 3.73 gears has a 7600 lb tow capacity
the 4x4 with 3.73 gears has a 7300 lb tow capcity
nd the 4x4 with the 4.10 geas has a 8300 lb tow capacity.
Why don't you go get a catelog from any manufactuer sometime whether it be Toyota, GM, Ford, Kia whatever and see the 4x2 vs 4x2 weight loads for yourself. I am going off the 2001 Rado brochure. I am sure you can find one of those can't you. If not I would be appy to mail you a copy...
1. What type of pistons does the Tundra use? Please cite some evidence?
2. What, in your opinion, is the cause of the cold start-up clatter on the Tundra?
Since you are such an expert, please share with us.
Besides, Toyota has only a couple different configurations and I couldn't name them off the top of my head. I looked at the Tundra catalog before I bought mine but that was 1.5 years ago.
BTW-Two identical trucks, one with 4WD and one with 2WD, the 2WD will have the higher towing/hauling capacity. The 4WD adds weight to the truck thereby decreasing the towing/hauling capacity. This is true on ALL trucks.
the 4x4 with 3.73 gears has a 7300 lb tow capcity"
end quote!!!
Doohhhhhhh!!! Which tows more???
What's a catelog????