Toyota Tundra Problems

ak4x4 · January 2002

Enough... Your pics prove nothing. For all we know one is from a Tundra to other from a MR2 or Celica or Supra. Call the number buddy. Or is it that you did and you're wrong??

ndahi12 · January 2002

You hit it right on the head. I took your advise and called the number and got the answer in writing and verbally. I was told twice that the pistons are Forged on the Tundra. Bama and his cohorts do not like being wrong, so they do not make the call. Very funny if you ask me. They would rather post pictures from god knows who on the net, than call those who know (Toyota Techs at customer service and Toyota head tech at Long Beach Toyota).

ndahi12 · January 2002

If the Tundra runs CAST pistons, then why are the piston-to-wall tolerances 0.0035 - 0.0044 in as reported from the FSM of the 2000 Tundra. Cast pistons usually run 0.001 in piston-to-wall to tolerances. But not in the Tundra. Why is that?

The only logical conclusion is that the Tundra runs forged pistons requiring the larger tolerances due to the fact that Forged pistons are NOT thermally efficient. Forged pistons shrink more when cold and expand more when hot requiring larger tolerances. That is why you get the clatter on cold start up that those who live in cold climates experience almost daily.

Bama, what is your explanation for the larger than usual cylinder-to-wall tolerances? How about you Arkie6?

ak4x4 · January 2002

The early Tundras could have very well used Cast pistons. I don't know what year Bama has so I can't comment. Maybe Toyota responded to the problem starting in the 2002 model years. I haven't called the number yet, but I would go back and check all production models V6 and V8. That way you guys can know for sure. But I would belive you more then Bama for the fact that he keeps posting a pic and that's all. But I am wondering if it might be relivant to where you live?? A Tundra destined for Alaska might have Cast pistons while a Tundra made for Alabama has forged. Same goes for Cali and Alabama. But I am just curious. He might be right but you have a different production region??

ndahi12 · January 2002

The most common and usually the most inexpensive type of piston is cast aluminum. This type of piston is manufactured by pouring molten aluminum into a piston shaped mold, this results in a fairly uniform crystalline grain structure. Cast pistons expand uniformly when heated, and usually have steel reinforcement plates near the wrist pin area. These pistons can be installed with clearances tighter then forged pistons, however they are much weaker than forged pistons and are prone to breakage and melting under high loads, and detonation.

Hypereutectic pistons are the next type of piston, these pistons are also a cast design. However, the pistons are manufactured from an aluminum alloy which contains approximately 16% silicon, compared to the standard cast piston's 7%. The increased silicon content helps control thermal expansion, and can be installed with even tighter tolerances that a traditional cast piston. The high silicon content in these pistons also allows them to be able to withstand higher operating temperatures and pressures, and improves the hardness of the pistons. These pistons, while being superior than the standard cast type, are not as strong as the forged design, and can shatter under extreme conditions, such as heavy detonation.

Forged pistons are generally thought of as the best design for performance and racing applications. These pistons start out as a cylindrical piece of aluminum, which after being heated is pressed into a piston shape, and then machined to become a finished piston. This results in a dense grain structure which is much stronger than a cast design, and also is better able to transfer heat away from the piston crown. The forged piston does have some drawbacks however, this design requires larger operating clearances than cast pistons, and may be heavier than some cast types.

jmsintx · January 2002

ndahi12 ,
If the Tundra runs CAST pistons, then why are the piston-to-wall tolerances 0.0035 - 0.0044 in as reported from the FSM of the 2000 Tundra. { tolerances are a function of coeficient of expansion between dissimilar metals, not how they are produced } Cast pistons usually run 0.001 in piston-to-wall to tolerances. But not in the Tundra. Why is that? { What do you base your information on the "usual" clearance of piston-to-wall clearances ? Are you talking about piston to wet or dry liners ? }

The only logical conclusion is that the Tundra runs forged pistons { how is this logical ? } requiring the larger tolerances due to the fact that Forged pistons are NOT thermally efficient. { no such definition as thermally efficient or thermally inefficient, every metal has a specific coefficient of expansion, which has nothing to do with "efficiency "} Forged pistons shrink more when cold and expand more when hot requiring larger tolerances. That is why you get the clatter on cold start up that those who live in cold climates experience almost daily.

Bama, what is your explanation for the larger than usual cylinder-to-wall tolerances? How about you Arkie6?

Hope that helps.

ndahi12 · January 2002

It is pretty simple. Cast pistons have tighter tolerances to the cylinder than forged pistons. As I understnad it it is somewhere in the area of 0.001 in. The Tundra, however, has tolerances that range from 0.0035-0.0044. Why is that?

I believe it is because it runs forged pistons. Forged pistons have greater thermal expansion than cast pistons.

"Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."

"Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity."

Is that clearer?

harry754 · January 2002

Hi everyone,Thanks for all of the responses and tips you sent me,I was really suprised.Anyway duckshooter was right in that the day after I bought the truck I changed the stock unit out so I don,t know if it was makeing noise and to what extent before,besides I,m out of warrenty.The radio I put in is a Becker deck.It has AM,FM,CD,and 6 bands of shortwave reception(thats why I bought it.I don't think that the problem is the radio is the problem because it worked fine in my last Toyota 4x4.With all of the solid state on this truck I'm not sure where to look for a bad condenser.It could be a damn tiny thing on a board somewhere.What throws me is why it gets worse (the noise ) when the headlights are turned on.Anyway,this a great message board!I,ll stay in touch and thanks for all of your help! Harry...

f1jules · January 2002

Thanks for the explanation. I remember doing sand castings in Jr High shop class also. I just didn't know what the difference was.

sirharper · January 2002

Toyota made a piece of junk? Alot of people are going to have trouble with this one!

eric2001 · January 2002

You could try to add a noise suppressor in-line with the radio.

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-8i1njJ450hy/ProdGroup.asp?s=0&g=780

Good luck

-Eric

harry754 · January 2002

Thanks Eric for the heads up on the noise suppressors from Crutchfield.I have two types on order.I think the one for the anttenea lead in is going to do the trick because thats where I think that its comeing in from.Thanks again for the help and I let you know if they work..Harry

sweetoy · January 2002

Are the pictures of the pistons from your Tundra? My 2001 Tundra 4x4 SR5 access cab has developed the cold start knocking problem also. On start up, sounds like light tapping against the block with a hammer. Are you saying this is because the pistons are cast? Is your knocking problem more pronounced at cold temperatures? Would changing my oil to a non-synthetic reduce the knocking tendency? I've been using Mobil 1 since about 10,000 miles. The knocking started at about 7,500, has 13,300 miles now. The dealer said Toyota is aware of the problem, but has taken a wait and see approach. With so many reporting, is Toyota planning to make adjustments to the owners of knocking engines for diminished life?

- Mick

ak4x4 · January 2002

I am just curious. Mobil one or Pennzoil or any full snthetic oil will cure your problem only if te engine is an older engine. I have seen studies done on older engines with more then 100K an it helped them with Better fuel economy, and power. I have never seen a claim where it can help knocking. As far as your problem at hand: Has Toyota checke the knock sensors on your truck?? This could be part of the problem. If your truck continues with this problem, document every time you go in and have it checked out. Also go to another dealer and have it checked out. Then go to your personal mechanic and have him check out the problem. Now you have 3 people telling the same story or conflicting stories. Now you have a Lemon Law case and you'll get a new '03 or '02 truck!!

bamatundra · January 2002

Sweetoy:

"Are the pictures of the pistons from your Tundra?"

Yes, Sweetoy they are from my Tundra. I removed them one night in my spare time.

quadrunner500 · January 2002

Sweetoy, your mistake was taking your question to Bama, since "his" tundra is flawless! (LOL!)

Check out the GM engine knock topic. He's much more helpful there, enlightening all the hapless GM owners with his unwanted, toymota engine knock wisdom.

Or read up a few posts. You're not the first Tundra owner to report engine knocking. Just ignore his attacks, and someone else will help with your problem.

sonjaab · January 2002

Check out www.tundrasolutions.com
There are other toy owners with
engine knock also.....
Them guys over there seem levelheaded
and ready to HELP a fellow Toy owner!
..... Good luck....geo

modvptnl · January 2002

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!

Knock sensors for a cold start knocking problem!!!
Guess them there knock sensors tighten up them clearances real quick now!!

I've heard it all.

duckshooter · January 2002

Remember - this is a cold start anamoly. Mine makes the sound (I won't call it a "knock") after it has sat all night in the cold. You can't just drive it to your mechanic or the dealer unless it's right next door. After only one or two minutes of driving, the sound is gone. Unless it's very cold (like, around zero) waiting for the engine to cool and the sound to come back would take an overnight or wait all day in below freezing temps to duplicate. And even then it's hit or miss - I've had my truck in the parking lot all day long in 30 degree temps and not have it come back... but leave it in the garage overnight in the teens or twenties and first thing in the morning, there it is.

So far it's no big deal - like Toyota, I'll watch it and see.

eric2001 · January 2002

I know it is an inconvience, but could you leave it at the dealer's overnight? Maybe they could arrange a loaner for the overnight? Just a thought.
-Eric

duckshooter · January 2002

Yes - I could - if it was worth that. But then you have to count on it being cold enough over night and then you're still at the mercy of some guy actually going out and doing it. You don't hear it at idle, only when accelerating. After going to all the trouble, I can just hear the guy saying "we couldn't get it to make any sound out of the ordinary."

And even IF they did duplicate it - what are they going to do? "Try" something? And how would they know if they fixed it? Wait around til the next cold morning and give it another go! So now we're on day TWO with the loner - and in all likelihood they still haven't fixed it.

So why do it unless there's something known to be wrong in the first place? Satisfying idle curiousity just isn't worth my time. Now if Toyota comes out with a TSB or warranty action, that would be quite a bit different.

It's wait and see for now.

Jeff

eric2001 · January 2002

Well, I know the issue, as I have it with my GMC. Best of luck to you with the problem, and keep us informed if there is a "fix" in the future.
-Eric

frey44 · January 2002

I am looking at a white 2000 2x4 tundra SR5, v8 auto. What do I need to be aware of in terms of TSB's or problems with this truck ? I am thinking of trading in a Ranger on it. Is it feasible to install an after market LSD ? If I recall, these trucks did NOT come with limited slip. i live in Ohio and would have difficulty without LSD. Would I be better off buying a new one ? Price here for the 2000 is about 18 000. A new one would be about 24 500. Would a $x$ be a better idea ? thanks.

gaylecv · January 2002

I am having a problem with the paint on the roof of my cab. There are several irregular circular(about half the size of a dime)
spots where the paint has peeled off. It is not from bird droppings or any chemicals. I have seen some posts on the Tundra Solutions web site related to this problem. Is anyone having this problem? Has Toyota responded in any way?

smgilles · January 2002

I have a 2001 Tacoma and had the same paint defects on the hood and top of the cab. Dealer tried telling it was bird droppings or acid rain. I said if that is the case then every car on their lot should have the problem. Regional manager said Toy. dealership had to fix. They repainted it twice and screwed it up both times. They finally agreed to let me take it to a body shop of my choice at their cost. So, to make a long story short they covered the cost. If you get the run around call the 1-800-331-4331 (toyota customer relations), and it will be resolved.

obyone · January 2002

Tundras have forged pistons or what?

quadrunner500 · January 2002

Top 25 Best and Worst Vehicles
The Center for Auto Safety analyzed complaints made to the government by Americans having problems with their vehicles. Below are the models that received the fewest complaints, and those that received the most. Models introduced in 2000 and 2001 are not represented due to a lack of data.
Best (Fewest complaints) Worst (Most complaints)
1. Ford F-Series 1. Mazda MPV
2. BMW 3 Series 2. Kia Sportage
3. BMW 5 Series 3. Ford Excursion
4. Volkswagen Golf 4. Ford Windstar
5. Mazda Truck 5. Mercury Cougar
6. Volvo C70 6. Volvo S40
7. Volkswagen Beetle 7. Honda Passport
8. Nissan Sentra 8. Honda S2000
9. Infiniti G20 9. Mitsubishi Eclipse
10. Acura RL 10. Isuzu Rodeo
11. Saab 9-5 11. Ford Explorer
12. Chevrolet Prizm 12. Land Rover Range Rover
13. Toyota Corolla 13. Audi A6
14. Infiniti QX4 14. Hyundai Tiburon
15. Nissan Altima 15. Honda Odyssey
16. Lexus RX300 16. Lincoln LS
17. Nissan Maxima 17. Jeep Grand Cherokee
18. Acura TL 18. Volkswagen Passat
19. Saab 9-3 19. Buick LeSabre
20. Pontiac Bonneville 20. Suzuki Grand Vitara
21. Mazda Millenia 21. Chevrolet Blazer
22. Mazda 626 22. Chevrolet Impala
23. Lincoln Town Car23. Toyota Tundra
24. Ford Focus 24. Dodge Dakota
25. Honda Accord 25. Dodge Neon

quadrunner500 · January 2002

http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=FLMYR&FRONTID=HOME

You have to navigate a bit....
Click on "Business"
Then click on Center for Auto Safety, Features, Crash Tests
Then click on List of Top Rated Cars

rsmall4 · January 2002

Just bought a 2002 Tundra, extended cab model. Was wondering if anyone is having problems with new models brakes. They seem to chatter or vibtate when stopping. Also receive a slight "clunk" from the rear end after the truck comes to a stop. More troubling is a very unsmooth shift in the automatic transmission when shifting.Truck only has 600 miles on it and it has not gone in yet for a check up. Anyone else having these problems. How about lousy gas mileage. Only 11-12MPG around town. Thank you

wheeldog · January 2002

I believe all those issues are documented on www.tundrasolutions.com. You can get more specific help over there then you will here.

Good luck.

ndahi12 · January 2002

the brakes were a known problm on the 2000 model and some of the 2001. There has been no report of brake problems on late 2001 and 2002 models.

As for the tranny clunk, I get that when I stop suddenly on occasion. You can resolve this by greasing the area where the drive shaft exits the tranny.

I get 15 mpg in mixed driving with towing included. The general average for Tundra drivers is 16 mpg.

mfaud · January 2002

My 2001 had the rotors turned and the pads replaced 2 times now. I don't believe Toyota has solved this problem, even for the 2001-2002 yrs.

f1jules · January 2002

I noticed the hard shifting in my truck early on also. The 2-3 shift was fairly abrupt. For some reason it got smoother as I put more miles on it. When I brought the truck in for its first oil change at 5,000 miles I mentioned the shifting problem and they said they adjusted it but it didn't seem to make any difference. It is very smooth now though with close to 30k miles on it.

ndahi12 · January 2002

Do you use the parking brake everytime you park your truck?

rsmall4 · February 2002

Ndahi12

why did you ask if I use the parking brake everytime I parked the truck??

bamatundra · February 2002

If you read Ndahl's post, you will see that he addressed his question to mfaud.

scullary · February 2002

I have a 2000 4WD Limited that is just over 2 years old now. The only thing about the truck that I am not happy with is the fact that the front bumper dents easily. I have two very obvious dents from "touching" the edge of a wooden shelf in my garage. I didn't damage the shelf - not even the paint on it. It seems to me a truck like this should be a little tougher. Anyone else have this type of problem?

brucec35 · February 2002

You sure you don't have a V6 under the hood? Or maybe your last truck was a Ford Lightning? The Tundra SR5 V8 access cab 2wd was timed at 7.8 seconds to 60mph, and mine sure feels like it too. Other than being just about the best in class, or close too it, how is that slow off the line? I tow a trailer with mine and even then I pull away from stoplights about as fast as most cars do, sometimes faster. I haven't noticed any low end power problem. And I can appreciate a nice torquey V8 off the line and tell the difference in a vehicle that doesn't have it. The Tundra has it. My "family car" is a '98 BMW 540i 6 speed sport. The Tundra can outsprint or hang with a few "sporty" cars out there. I believe motor trend called it "a sprinter" in one review.

As for some of the complaints about minor vibrations and rattles, I can only say that things have improved so much we're starting to expect sedan rides from 4500 lb pickup trucks.

The Tundra can have complaints made about the somewhat drab styling, the lack of rear cab room, the seating position, the doors that won't stay open on hills(a lawsuit waiting to happen the minute a toddler gets his head sandwiched by them), the disappointing paint quality, and a little too much body roll, but I think low end power is fine.

bamatundra · February 2002

No doubt. Motor Trend tested the Tundra V8 against a Chev HD with a 6.0L V8. The Tundra beat it 0-60 by a full second! When loaded with 1000lb it STILL outaccelerated the Chev.

As far as braking- the Tundra is the best in its class. When loaded with 1000lb it outbraked the Chev HD by 32ft from 60mph. They said the Chev brakes were scary.

And this is what Chev calls HD?

quadrunner500 · February 2002

Chevy 2500HD = 9200 GVWR
Tundra = 6200 GVWR

Bama usually says something like..."why are you comparing a 3/4 ton truck to a 1/2 ton truck?"

Of course, he's just doing it because Tundra loses most (if not all) acceleration comparisons to the 5.3L Silverado 1/2 ton.

Fact is, Tundra is on the Center for Auto Safety list of the 25 worst vehicles for complaints to the government by Americans having problems with their vehicles.

kcowboy · February 2002

I've had my 2001 SR5 V8 ext.cab now for about 6 months, got about 11,000 on it. I've had absolutely no problems with it what-so-ever, it runs great. No rattling,window leaking,transmission problems our worse yet oil consumption problems like those chevy silverados. Hey people just look at all those posts for silverado problems. GM has always built CRAP! and always will. This is my first Toyota, before that I've always had Ford trucks and had no problems either. I would had gone back with Ford but I saved more money with the Tundra! plus the crash test said alot. If I ever get rid of the Tundra I'll be back with Ford or even Dodge before lowering my standard for a GMC or worse yet chevy pickup!. If you do your research as in the Truck Trend site you'll see that the Tundra had higher grades than the chevy. I also know two people I work with that have got rid of their silverado's, One because of pulling problems and it was a 2001 5.3L Z71, the other had excessive oil consumption on his 2000 silverado. If you'll do your homework you'll see that GM made pickups have a history of transmission problems dating back to the early 80's. Anyway if you'll notice most of the posts that are aganist Tundra on this thread are from disgruntled chevy owners. These are the same type of people that buy into nameplates, thats why chevy pickups are so overpriced, because regardless people will buy them. GM knows this and will skimp on quality to save a few bucks because regardless people will buy for the name. This is sad but true because our society is based on name brands,labels and symbols instead of best value for the price.

losangelesemt · February 2002

Well im getting ready to dive into a Tundra myself, so i'm glad to hear that yours is running well. Some of the people in here would have you believe that "toyota quality" wasnt in mind with the Tundra, I happen to think otherwise. Appreciate you being painfully honest as far as experiences with other trucks. As far as disgruntled posters lol, I couldn't agree more.

f1jules · February 2002

"I'll be back with Ford or even Dodge before lowering my standard for a GMC or worse yet chevy pickup!"

This always cracks me up. I hear people say stuff like this all the time. Helloooo!!! Chevy and GMC are the same! Chevy=GMC. I used to work with a guy who owned a '94 Suburban and had the engine seize up (main bearing) at 60k miles. He was upset when Chevy wouldn't fix it under warranty. He threatened to never buy another Chevy again and buy GMC instead. Talk about a hollow threat. ROTFLMAO!!! That's like threatening Ford that you're going to buy a Mercury. IT'S THE SAME FRIGGIN COMPANY!!!

ak4x4 · February 2002

And the Rado that I own is bad??

You guys were pointing statstics to me for a month. Here's one for you. I don't see any GMC's or Rados on that list.

But I can bet it's not the truck, it's the driver.

Things like I was saying before. Radio problems, and such. Just the little things.

ak4x4 · February 2002

The Rado's and the Sierra's differ a bit from each other.

Yes they are the same truck, but I have heard bad things about both, so I can't take sides.

I have heard that the GMC frames are Chevy frames that had defects and were fixed. But then again I have heard that the Rado's vortec's were GMC's rejections.

To me I just find the GMC to look and feel cheaper for some reason. Even though it is the same truck. But why is it that some GMC's are cheaper then their Chevy counterpart, and some Chevys are cheaper then the GMc's??? Shouldn't the all be within 2 grand of each other???

I don't know about this one. And frankly I don't care, but the whole issue between GMC and Chevy has lots of stories that I don't want to hear!

truckman14 · February 2002

I have been experiencing an intermitant starting difficult with my 2002 Tundra 6 cylinder. The dealer and factory are trying to get it to re-occurr while they have a feul pressure gage attached. So far, they say, " we dont have any Tundra's doing this but yours. We see similar problems in other vehicles, ie. RAVs ,etc, but not Tundras."
I wonder if this is a fluke, or , are they holding something back ?

Occasionally, when I try to start the truck, it hits about 4 times and then, quits hitting and just cranks. After about 10 seconds, the engine stumbles and starts. No smoke out of the back.

Anyone else experiencing this ?

f1jules · February 2002

You must admit though that threatening to switch from Chevy to GMC is a very hollow threat.

As for engines and chassis I would suspect that those stories you heard are just that...stories. I used to work for a major car rental company, we had the Mercury Sable and Ford Taurus in our rental fleets, same engines, same transmissions, same chassis and almost all the same sheet metal. Other than the grillwork, interior materials and other minor differences they are exactly the same car. Same with the Chevy/GMC trucks.

ak4x4 · February 2002

Yes you are right.

I would feel like an idiot if I said that at the chevy/GMC dealer. But some people think it's a different car for some odd reason. The major differences are the grill and the wheels. And the fact they use SL,SLE,SLT to rate there lines. Chevy uses Rado, LS, and LT. But yes, they are the same truck, with the same parts.

losangelesemt · February 2002

Can't say I can help you with the starting problem yet. I'm wondering though how you like the 6 cylinder, cause im getting ready to get a 6 myself and not only don't see many of em, but don't hear much either. I dont need to haul much or worry about drag racing down the 10 freeway into L.A. = ), dont need an 8.

jimedwards · February 2002

My 2000 Tundra has been a huge disappointment. Brake warping, vibration problems started at about 13,000 miles, and returned 5,000 miles after the dealer performed the TSB, replaced the pads and rotors. Sags down to the stops with only 800 lbs in the bed.

I know a few others Tundra owners. We all started out happy. But sooner or later, most come around to the reality you can't do work with this truck, or it lets you down in other ways, either poor quality or poor design.

That it made the Center for Auto Safety list of the 25 worst vehicles in America is no consolation.

Jim

Toyota Tundra Problems

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles