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MINI Cooper

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Comments

  • steelypipsteelypip Member Posts: 13
    edwardsdd -- do you find yourself wishing for more power than the base Cooper engine can provide?

    I understand there's not much difference in top speed... I'm more concerned with acceleration.

    Good to hear about the spectacular handling, though. :-)
  • speculativespeculative Member Posts: 36
    But I wish BMW would just buy honda or acura 4 cilinders and stick them in the mini....then again the supercharged version probably has mor torque.
  • edwardsddedwardsdd Member Posts: 2
    No, I haven't wished for more power from the base engine. As long as I keep the revs up it accelerates very well.
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    Audi programmed thier CVT to act like a conventional automatic for U.S. Audi's only. They gave the U.S. CVT's what appears to be 6 "gears" that you can shift through in manual mode - kind of mimics thier Tiptronic automatic transmission in + / - manual mode. Again - this is all for American tastes of wanting to feel a shift between "gears". If you leave the Audi CVT in automatic mode it acts like a like a traditional CVT - economy RPM or Performance RPM. The engine stays at optimum economy RPM under normal acceleration driving. When you floor it the engine stays at optimum performance HP/Torque RPM for fastest acceleration - it works really well.

    MINI did the same for the U.S. spec MINI CVT - they reprogrammed it to have the feel of shifting through gears.

    I still think MINI will offer the CVT in an S - The S isn't a BMW M car performance-wise by any stretch of the imagination. I'll bet we'll see the CVT offered on the S in about a year or so.

    The SMG automatic transmission in the M3 is an automatically shifted manual transmission. It is full automatic - no clutch. You press on the gas and it shifts through gears by itself just like any automatic - about as automatic as it gets.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    The SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox. You are correct in that there is no clutch, but you do still have to shift through the gears yourself using two paddles mounted under the steering wheel. From what I have heard, it is similar to or the same as the system they use for the F1 cars.

    On a different note, I called the Herb Chambers Mini dealer in Boston a couple of days ago to ask about a test drive, and they said they are doing them by appointment only, and the next available appointment was about a week later. They must have a ton of interested people coming in there.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    The SMG doesn't have a torque converter, so it's not an automatic. It's a clutchless manual similar to those used in F1. There is an auto mode, which I wish BMW would get rid of.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    has a clutch, just no clutch pedal correct?
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    Correct. I think it's hydraulically lifted and dropped.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    I was about to go crazy hearing the term "clutchless" when it does have a clutch. Just don't have to work your legs out to make it work ;-)
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Sorry for the confusion. When I said clutchless, I was referring to lack of the third pedal.
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    SMG fits my definition of an automatic transmission - start it up, put it in forward step on the gas and the car does the rest - you can use the paddle shifters on the steering wheel or the knob on the console - or do nothing and let it shift through the gears for itself. You'd never know it was an automatically shifted manual transmission when you drive it if someone didn't tell you, the operative words being "automatically shifted".
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    just because it's not a slushbox.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    That's not how SMG works. If you put it in auto mode, it'll shift for you, but if you're in the manual mode, it won't.
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    The automatic transmission in my X5 works the same way - in auto mode it shifts for itself, manual mode (shove the lever to the right) and you shift manually by tapping the lever up or down - which I never use by the way. To me a transmission is automatic if it shifts for you, no matter what technology that lever on the console is attached to. If I don't have to press on a clutch pedal and shove a lever through gears - I'm driving a car with an automatic transmission.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    X5 has steptronic. It's not the same as SMG.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    In terms of the driver use, the SMG is identical to the X5 you have. The difference is underneath the skin - different underlying mechanical systems in order to achieve the same end. Over your X5, the SMG system (and its variants from other manufacturers) is more efficent and much quicker to shift, and theoretically more reliable.
  • speculativespeculative Member Posts: 36
    the new SMG 2 in the new M3 even has launch control. It will rev up to 16-1800 rpm then drop the clutch (the computer drops the clutch). It by default starts in Normal or fully auto mode, so every time you start the car you need to select manual mode, and if you want launch control. Otherwise its about as fast as the normal M3 (acording to the M3 owners at the strip). The fact that theres no torque converter means for me at least it is more manual then auto.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    Really, we need more choices than "manual" and "auto" because frankly, there are more than two transmission choices.

    There are clutch transmissions (manual or auto versions available)
    There are torque converter transmissions (manual or auto versions available)
    There are CVT transmissions (no manual "interpretation" to my knowledge)

    That's at least five different transmission styles built off three different transmission technologies. And this is before we get into hybrid and electric drivetrains.
  • rmorin2rmorin2 Member Posts: 110
    My dealer is a considerable distance so I haven't been able to visit and get the prices on the various Mini dealer accessories. Can someone post their prices? Thanks.
  • tchoyttchoyt Member Posts: 8
    Has anybody actually talked to a Mini dealer and obtained any more info on availibility, delivery, and the like. I know supplies and dealerships are short, but I can't get any info here in California, am wondering if there are any hard facts out there.
  • rmorin2rmorin2 Member Posts: 110
    I am #107 on the list at my dealer. Supposedly 85 of the 106 people ahead of me are waiting on an S model, so I am being told my car could be here in 6-8 weeks. They are selling at MSRP. Don't know if I will be "forced" to buy additional accessories or dealer packages. If I am, I may not buy. I did have to put down a refundable $1K deposit. My dealer is Mini of Towson (MD). Hope this helps.
  • tchoyttchoyt Member Posts: 8
    Thanks, I did not realize they had already shipped, my dealer in California hasn't responded. Thanks
  • steelypipsteelypip Member Posts: 13
    sphynx99: you make a good point - the old manual/auto worldview is now much too simplistic.

    revka (host): wouldn't this be a great topic for an Edmunds article? An in-depth analysis of the technology and performance characteristics of the full range of modern transmissions? Even a shallow overview would be pretty useful, from a buyer's perspective.
  • m37stevem37steve Member Posts: 10
    I am dealing with MINI of Peabody in Massachusetts. Coopers and one "S" were available for test drives on 3/22. No CVTs yet.
    I have ordered an all-black Cooper with CVT, premium pkg, modified cold weather pkg (no htd windshield), Xenon lites, and a few other bits. A $500 fully refundable deposit was required. Quoted MSRP, no extra add-ons from the dealer so far. Rough availability date of June for my car. They don't expect to have a CVT for demo until late May at best.
  • indianoutlaw14indianoutlaw14 Member Posts: 3
    Why would anybody want to pay 25 grand for a little piece of tin like this? You will probably get gouged for about 30 or 35 due to all of the idiots that will just die if they don't get one. And for what? The first one to come in contact with a retaining wall or worse yet a tractor trailer will wish they hadn't forked over thousands too much for the thing. That is if they make it out alive. The Trans Am and Camaro are dead thanks to the SUV and little 4 cylinder crap like this. Spend your money wisely, buy a Vette, a 1980s 308, SOMETHING WORTH THE PRICE TAG!!!
  • speculativespeculative Member Posts: 36
    Why buy it? I am a vette owner so let me explain. Yes it is overpriced by about 3 or 4 grand, especialy since the expensive version is the only one I like. BUT it would make a great car for in the city. It looks really cool. It is BMW designed, so im sure it will be safe, and reliable. The BMW design also means that you can get options that I couldent even get on my vette.
    SUMMERY: Because its cool looking, and because I can aford to buy it. I dont eat fastfood for a reason. Its the same reason that would compel me to buy a mini....In a few years when they stick the CVT in the S version. Perfict city car...
  • indianoutlaw14indianoutlaw14 Member Posts: 3
    summAry: Don'''''t knock fast___food until you try it. When you are in a hurry, it is a perfEct place to get something to eat. OK, I'm sorry, I just had to knock your spelling. It angers me that the American public can get so caught up in nothing more than hype. We will pay anything just to get a jump on everyone else. The New Beetle was an example of this. A true car person would much rather have an old Beetle than one of these new pieces of s***. Nowadays it's "cool" to have four cylinders, a head gasket killing coffee can for a muffler, and a spoiler (on a front wheel drive car no less) that looks like it was made in some high school shop class glued to the hatch/trunk. Whatever happened to the GTO, the '69 Z28, the Buick GSX, the '70 Chevelle SS 454? Remember, I'm comparing muscle cars to what have become wannabe muscle cars. It isn't apples and oranges here people, but, in a funny way it is. Oh, and if you can't keep a "bigger car" between the lines painted on the road, I can't see why any of the fifty states should entrust you with a license to operate any vehicle. Stop, think, and if you can find any intelligent reason to still buy into all of the marketing hype out there, I guess you're a better man than me.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I'm old enough to remember seeing the 60's muscle cars you mention when they were new on the showroom floor. As I recall, most of these cars couldn't stop worth beans, couldn't go around corners very well, and swilled gasoline like it was free, which in the 60's it almost was. Most of these cars also had laughable quality, and were constantly shedding parts as they went down the road. To top it all off, dealers routinely gouged anyone who came into the store to buy one. I'm no fan of SUVs or Ricemobiles, but cars are a reflection of their time - people usually buy what they want, as opposed to what they need... and wants are defined by marketing gurus and the media. Some things never seem to change.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    If I were rich enough to have all the heavyweights in my garage already I'd have a Mini Cooper S. Silver, black roof, black interior, silver mirrors. This is going to be this season's hottest toy. A daily driver, nope. Though the car is as cute as a speckled puppy.

    M
  • eman5eman5 Member Posts: 110
  • speculativespeculative Member Posts: 36
    I love the real car person argument. Sort of like a "real" fast food person. Its a good thing that the auto makers care more about us ordenary car buyers the all the "real" car people at burger world. You must be someone's secritary to care so much about spelling errors.
    P.S. I have tried fast food, It makes you sick in a hurry.
  • huckhillhuckhill Member Posts: 20
    Why must these arguments erupt each time a new car enters the market? Real car this or chick car that? The same type of discussion haunted the Liberty board for at least a month. Buy what you like and enjoy the choices that free markets offer you.

    Personally, this car is probably only slightly more useful to me than a miata. With a family and dog, a minivan would suit me better. Yet, still I dream. Luckily dads are allowed to have the useless but fun cars.
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    Finally got to drive a Mini - an S at that. I've got to say I was not impressed with it's performance as in 0-60 - it seemed really slow to me, not responsive at all. Handling seemed to be great - the firmness of the suspension was perfect. Fit and finish is excellent - but overall it was a big let down due to sluggishness.

    Bottom line is I think the MINI won't be that big a deal in the U.S. in the near future. The Mini S is by no stretch a performance car except in handling. The regular Cooper is a nice enough car for a commuter, but I don't see people in the U.S. flocking to dealers to buy one. I think you are going to see these waiting lists evaporate over night when it comes down to someone actually buying one after driving one - The Mini is really not that big a deal, anyone thinking of paying above MSRP to get their hands on one needs to wait a couple of months and wait for this initial interest spike play itself out - and believe me it will play itself out in the very near future.
  • tetonmantetonman Member Posts: 73
    "Yet, still I dream. Luckily dads are allowed to have the useless but fun cars."

    I agree with you on that!

    ... the MINI IS supposed to be a fun car, not a toyota camry right? At least that's my thought after driving it. Sorry that the S was less impressive than thought. I'm still waiting to drive one though...
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Rickrover, I'm amazed to hear your enthusiasm fizzing away so rapidly. I guess I'm glad I didn't knock myself out and commit to an out of state purchase -- still no TX dealers!
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    All it took was a test drive - not very impressive to say the least - I'm going back to try out a regular Cooper and an SVT just out of curiosity. The S I drove had Premium and Sport packages, leather etc - MSRP $25k - this dealer has a mandatory $1,500 in accessories - $26,500 is not worth it for the sluggish performance - I was not impressed at all. I still have my deposit with the dealer - I'll probably get it back this weekend. I honestly think BMW has a huge flop on it's hands - no kidding. The New Beetle had a lot of nostalgia going for it in the U.S that the MINI doesn't have. That and the fact that these dealers are gouging their customers will turn people off.
  • steelypipsteelypip Member Posts: 13
    I am still puzzled about why BMW chose to put such a weak engine in a car they obviously have high hopes for. Was it a ruthless cost-cutting measure, designed to bring the price of the S version under $20k? That's the only sensible reason I can think of, but it's still a lousy reason.

    Having said that... I'm not all THAT concerned about mediocre 0-60 times. The top-notch cornering ability and responsiveness are more important to me. And the CVT is an extremely attractive option (especially if they put it on the S). And as it happens, I have no problem waiting out the initial spike until prices drop to MSRP or below, at which point I think the car is actually a pretty good deal, considering the standard features and overall build quality.

    Finally - I just have to say it: the clincher in all of this (assuming the rest of the picture is reasonably bright, which I think it is) is how damn *attractive* the car is. :-)

    To each his/her own, and all that, and I know others aren't nearly so enamored of it, but to me, it's the cutest, coolest, *cheekiest* looking car on the market today, and that factor alone would put a big smile on my face every time I cast a glance its way.

    It's difficult to quantify just how much that smile is worth, but to me, it's worth quite a bit. More than enough to outweigh my concerns about pokey acceleration... I'd much rather have a Cooper S than an Impreza WRX, for example, even though the Impreza would thrash the Cooper in almost all performance metrics. The WRX is an impressive machine, but it doesn't make me *smile* just to look at it. The Mini does.

    Like I said, to each his own.

    Thanks for the info, rickrover - I'll be very interested in your base-Cooper-with-CVT testdrive. Keep us posted.
  • steelypipsteelypip Member Posts: 13
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_011212.htm
  • m37stevem37steve Member Posts: 10
    The dealer I am working with has given no indication of premiums or mandatory accessories/options. I would not overpay, and am very concerned about the PT/New Beetle phenom, but I don't think this is the same. I have placed a refundable deposit on a Cooper with CVT, sunroof, DSC, Xenon, and more for around $22k. I'm going with triple black to counteract the "cute" factor. My dealer is expecting a CVT demo to be available for test drives in late May. There are things about the Mini which make a difference to me that other people wouldn't care about, and make it more attractive for my purposes than more expensive cars.
  • indianoutlaw14indianoutlaw14 Member Posts: 3
    All I've heard is a lot of "not me, you" in response to my negative opinions about the car. I am not trying to stir the pot. I want people to think and not just read my posts and say "What an a**hole. I'll tell him where he can stick his muscle cars and negative opinions." Don't hate!! I'm just playing devil's advocate in a way. Especially "speculative", Dan Quayle was Vice President of this country and his spelling wasn't great either so don't take my smart mouth personally. So, in the nicest way I know how, I'm asking for a really well written and intelligent reason why this vehicle has any real place on America's highways. Who knows, maybe even a horsepower craving lead foot like me will jump on one of those waiting lists. :=)
  • ambullambull Member Posts: 255
    From what I've read and seen, the Mini competes with the VW Beetle as a cute, fun economy car (at least the low-optioned ones). Loaded ones have to compete with some better vehicles, so they don't make as much sense to me. Here's a review by my home-town auto journalist who loved it:

    http://www.kccarhunter.com/stories/Mini.html
  • brechbielbrechbiel Member Posts: 13
    Here are some facts and opinions related to Mini Cooper. I have not read all postings, so please pardon any repetition:

    - BMW makes attractive, well engineered, high performance products, if somewhat expensive. My wife and I enjoy our 2000 323iT and 2001 525iT wagons, both with auto trannys. The 323iT replaced a 1991 G20 manual that was a great car with 110k miles. The 525iT replaced a 1989 Dodge Grand Caravan LE (not so great at the end, but lasted 115k.) We get around 23 mpg combined city/highway mileage with both wagons, mostly city use.

    - I am considering a smaller, less expensive car to replace the 323iT for in-town use. We are empty nesters and don't need as much room now.

    - I wonder if BMW will resurrect the 2002 model?

    - I plan to test drive a Mini next week, though I have no intention of buying one at this time for various reasons.

    - This is a fairly new product with limited distribution. Many states do not have a dealer. Those living in LA, San Fran or Miami are well covered. There are two dealers in the Atlanta area. Mini dealerships are affiliated with existing BMW dealers, so this will help establish the Mini line in short order. In my experience, it is wise to wait 2-3 years in this kind of situation.

    - 787 Mini Coopers were delivered (sold?) in March. BMW are on track to deliver the projected 20 thousand in the first year.

    - I saw one 2002 Mini Cooper on the road near my home during the first week of introduction. It didn't strike me as overly small, and was certainly more visible than a motorcycle. There are at least a couple of vintage Minis in Midtown Atlanta, one in baby blue. Those are SMALL cars!

    - For those who wait until 2004 or 2005, and aren't as picky about colors and options, a less expensive alternative is to buy a Certified Pre-Owned 2003 or 2004 Mini standard with low miles and most of the remaining new warranty. Some folks will trade their standard models for new S models. There will probably be very few used Cooper-S models at dealerships.

    - The BMW CPO warranty adds 24 months / 50K miles on top of the new warranty. It covers more than the powertrain. I bought a like-new 2001 525iT with 9k miles (42 months left on new warranty) for less than invoice, plus the dealer offered a good trade in value on the G20. If I buy another BMW, it will be a CPO.

    - The Mini website is fantastic. The 3-D views explain the technology very well.

    - At 2524 pounds, with 97" wheel base and 143" length, it is smaller than the Civic/Protégé/Corolla, but about the same weight. I trust this extra weight helps make the chassis stiffer and safer.

    - With the stock engine, it has less HP per pound than the above mentioned small cars.

    - With the S motor, it has an even better power/weight ratio than most so-called "pocket rockets." Yet, I have not read any review where the driver was impressed with the S model performance. The S is supposed to do 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds. Apparently, the sport suspension is harsh.

    - I wonder how the power will feel when the A/C compressor kicks in on the Standard Mini?

    - Official EPA numbers are not available. On the Mini site, they estimate mileage will be 26 city / 43 highway. The city figure is not good for such a small car. The Civic EX has more power and better EPA numbers. The 2003 Civic Hybrid costs about the same as the Mini and gets almost 50mpg Hwy. I would expect more like 30-32 city and 38-40 highway for the stock motor and 5-speed manual. Perhaps this is what we will get when the official numbers are in.

    - Regarding safety, Seattle Post-Intelligence Reporter recently published the article "Hefty SUVs Drive Home Safety Concerns." Here is a notable quote: "Statistics examined at the University of Michigan show that for every SUV occupant who dies after a head-on collision with a car, even a large luxury car, five car occupants die. In crashes in which the utility vehicle slams into the side of a car, there are 30 car deaths for every SUV death." Apparently, if a Ford Explorer crashes into us we are doomed whether we are in a Mini or a Lincoln Continental. So, we may as well enjoy the ride!

    - Here's the link to that article: <http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/62071_truck13.shtml>

    - I would choose a Mini color to be as visible as possible in bright Yellow or Red with a white roof.

    - I live intown, have a short commute, and seldom have passengers when I go on errands. I think a practical but fun car would be a small 2-door hatchback with around 140hp & 140ft-lb torque, CVT or SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox), 15" wheels and 40mpg average fuel efficiency. I can't get this with any current Mini model. The Mini S has enough power, but is not available with the CVT, and the suspension is said to be harsh.

    - The US market is not expected to make up more than 20-30% of sales. Therefore, US customer wishes may not have much priority in determining future features.

    - BMW's new Valvetronic technology is used in the 1.8 and 2.0 liter four cylinder engines for the 3 series compacts available in Europe. Perhaps we will get these engines in a future Mini? The 1.8 liter has 115hp @ 5500 and 129 ft-lb @ 3750. The 2.0 liter has 143hp @ 6000 and 148 ft-lb @ 3750. These engines have a wide power band and excellent fuel economy. Here is the brochure:

    <http://www.bmw.com/bmwe/products/automobiles/3er/pdf/3er_compact.pdf>

    - The upcoming BMW 1 series (2006?) may be the real small car ticket. It will be rear wheel drive and cost less than the 3 series, but more than the Mini.

    - Asian and other European companies build great small cars and could decide to bring them here if the US market buys into Mini. A friend who travels often in France likes the small Peugots he gets to rent. BMW will need competition to help keep them from charging too much!

    - On the other hand, Ford and others are about to introduce Hybrid gas/electric SUV models that get much better gas mileage, approaching that of the current Mini. SUVs will be around for a long time, so we best get used to it.
  • someblondeguysomeblondeguy Member Posts: 45
    How can you call 0-60 in 7.4 seconds slow?

    So what if it "only" has a 163 h.p. engine, it's still a light car (compared to many others) and will outhandle most cars, period. It's a gokart and it WILL get you ALOT of attention.

    The world would be a very boring place if everyone liked the same thing. I'm glad you Mini nay-sayers are passing on the car. Step out of line and let the thousands of others gladly take your place.

    I'll be thoroughly enjoying my Cooper 'S' this May.
  • tetonmantetonman Member Posts: 73
    Hadn't thought about the Cert. Pre-Owned program. Since MINI is letting people drive through short term lease program, there should be a few CPO MINI's available in 2004 if you can wait.

    For those that have a dealer charging a mandatory $1500 in options/accessories on a purchase of a MINI, why not complain to MINI/BMW via email or a letter? From the MINI site, it appears that BMW is really trying hard to keep the MINI at MSRP without the dealer/market mark-ups. (Yes, I know how the dealer network runs in the US....) A little pressure from the MFR never hurts though...
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    BMW is most likely going to have this car in mid 2003 as a 2004 model from what I have seen, so its not much more of a wait. This car looks awesome, has an SMG transmission, and they have already mentioned the possibility of an M1 using the 3.0 6-cylinder engine. A car this small with RWD should be fun even with the base engine. For more details, check out the May issue of Automobile, the concept is on the cover. Also:

     http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/49774/page003.html
  • someblondeguysomeblondeguy Member Posts: 45
    A 204 h.p. "Works" version will be made and existing 'S' owners will also be able to retrofit the kit to their cars.


    http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=02bda2da17cd5caca04d6330b8d3ebcb&threadid=5296

  • speculativespeculative Member Posts: 36
    They are pretty cheap brand new nevermind pre owned. If they would offer a cvt in the S version I wouldent think twice.
  • someblondeguysomeblondeguy Member Posts: 45
    A 204 h.p. "Works" version will be made and existing 'S' owners will also be able to retrofit the kit to their cars.


    http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=02bda2da17cd5caca04d6330b8d3ebcb&threadid=5296

  • someblondeguysomeblondeguy Member Posts: 45
    A 204 h.p. "Works" version will be made and existing 'S' owners will also be able to retrofit the kit to their cars.


    http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=02bda2da17cd5caca04d6330b8d3ebcb&threadid=5296

  • someblondeguysomeblondeguy Member Posts: 45
    A 204 h.p. "Works" version will be made and existing 'S' owners will also be able to retrofit the kit to their cars.


    http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=02bda2da17cd5caca04d6330b8d3ebcb&threadid=5296

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