MINI Cooper

milwaukeeboy · June 2002

Whoa! That MINI2 site is way too mature for me (LOL).

Actually I think she works in the office. There only seem to be 2 *salespeople* there and both are male. As far as I can tell there aren't any salespeople at all, just guys who take down orders, but that is the luxury of a sellers market.

The only good thing I got from the MINI2 site was this link from the webring:

http://www.russswift.co.uk/Pages/Videos.html.

Watch them all; repeatedly.

drivinisfun · June 2002

I agree the MINI is best enjoyed with a stick shift. However, the wife can't and plain out refuses to drive a car equipped with a manual transmission. In her view manual transmissions are something coming from the "Dark Ages", for people that like to self torture themselves while driving, etc. Let me put it this way...she is not passionate about cars and much less driving (Totally opposite to me in this respect). To her a car is an appliance, a tool to go to point A to B and back and driving is just a necessity of life, nothing else. Also our work commutes are pretty short and often involve bumper to bumper traffic. Who wants to shift on a 5 mile work commute every morning and every afternoon? We don't!

Having said that, the MINI is the first car that has really caught her eye and she likes it so much that she want us to get into one (May be the Fashion accessory approach works after all). So in order to get the best of both worlds, we have agreed to "Compromise" by getting a base Cooper with the CVT transmission.

I have not yet driven the CVT in the MINI, but based on my research and commentary of other owners and owners of other cars that drive Audis with CVT trannies, this is indeed one impressive unit. In the MINI it also has a "6-speed" simulated Steptronic arragement, so at least when I will be behind the wheel I can satisfy some of my craving for making manual shifts and still have all the benefits of the CVT arragement.

The CVT is no ordinary automatic transmission that is for sure. When we go for a test drive, I'll let everyone know about my impressions with it.

I suspect the CVT/Base Cooper combo is great for city driving.

crcoxe · June 2002

A actually am curious to hear a review of the CVT in the MINI. Reviews of other systems have always been mixed, with the "purists" seemingly always giving them a thumbs-down. About a year ago, I drove the Lexus IS300 with the F-1 style fingertip shifting and was impressed with the responsiveness of it. If I had the cash for the IS, however, I'd still have to row my own boat with the new 5-speed.

I say the compromise is a no-brainer. If getting the car depends on getting the CVT, then by all means get the CVT.

rickrover · June 2002

I HAVE to get out to test drive a MINI with CVT. I am a staunch manual trans guy in most cases. I've driven the new A4 with CVT in both the 3.0 V6 and 1.8t and was totally impressed. The most impressive was the 1.8t, I drove a manual, conventional 5 speed tiptronic automatic and the CVT 1.8t. The CVT didn't have a performance penalty at all, in fact it felt faster than the manual trans. The conventional automatic A4 1.8t had the typical sluggishness off the line that you'd expect - the CVT 1.8t took off like a rocket - as good if not better than the manual A4 1.8t.

Audi did the same thing that MINI has done to a CVT which is program it for U.S. tastes. They programmed 6 "speeds" into it that mimics shifting through gears. The European version only has two modes, economy and performance. Economy keeps the RPMs at a constant level for maximum economy and the performance mode keeps them at a constant RPM for maximum torque and HP. This is a very efficient design - if I had the MINI with CVT I'd have it programmed to Euro specs, the way it should be.

The MINI with CVT is the perfect commuter car, if I had a lengthy commute in a lot of traffic I'd opt for the CVT even though I usually go manual.

I have got to get out and test one.

jerrygar · June 2002

How does the Mini handle on rough dirt roads (washboard, potholes, etc.)? Would the tighter suspension be worse or better?

Thanks

hpulley4 · June 2002

I have the Cooper with the 16" 5-spoke wheels and Goodyear Eagle runflats. The Cooper has the sport suspension, while I believe the S has SS+ (in north america I think that's how you get them while in europe you have more choice).

The sport suspension plus runflats is very good for handling but is a bit harsh on bad bumps. Not quite jarring but you know you're driving a sporty car with a 97" wheelbase. Going with non-runflat tires would probably be more comfortable. I've never driven one with the base 175/65R15 tires on 15" wheels.

johnny36 · June 2002

I've got standard suspension with 15" wheels (run-flats) and it also seems quite harsh on bumps and pot holes. It seems that I can feel the bump through the break pedal sometimes. Alarming at first, but although I feel the bumps, the car is not swayed -- it always goes straight.

There has been some discussion about how the sport suspension will let you feel every bump and crack in the road, but it seems the standard won't totally eliminate the problem. Go for the sport. At least you will have an enhanced driving experience. You'll just have to grit your teeth on rough roads.

joe249 · July 2002

Does BMW own it, but the Brits build it?
I was on I 95 yesterday and saw one coming down the on ramp so I slowed down to 60mph to let him go by me it took 10 minutes.Also,everyone was checking it out and it was slowing all the traffic down.
Right now I bet you are paying way over MSRP to get one.As for myself I wouldn't touch one if it's made by the British. I owned 2 British cars. Lucas electrical system went to hell and I threw a rod.(MG-B)Then ,I bought a TR6 S.O.S.
Mini looks unique though ,but 1.6 and no cargo space for over 21K,I'll stick with my wheels.

drivinisfun · July 2002

Before dissing the new MINI, I strongly suggest for you to go and take one out for a test drive. This car is a JEWEL and possibly one of the finest, best quality and solidly built cars $20K can buy in the marketplace.

Indeed, the new MINI Cooper is 100% BMW conceived design from the ground up. The MINI is now much more a Germanic car with the only remaining British ties to the old one are its design heritage and the point of manufacture. The MINI is built in BMW's Oxford, England plant. This car has ZERO resemblance to any British car that you might have owned in terms of poor quality and reliability. No LUCAS electrical systems of shody build quality are found anywhere in this car. This car benefits from cutting edge German automotive technology (Car's electronics use Siemens components) and the best BMW has to offer in terms of fit/finish, interior materials, performance, handling prowess and safety.

The MINI has 6 airbags standard, an incredible stiff body structure (BMW claims it has 50% more torsion rigidity than the current E46 BMW 3 series), standard 4 wheel disc ABS brakes, traction control, CBC (Cornering Brake Control), Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBFD) and vehicle dynamic stability control (DSC).

Build quality and interior materials are what you can expect to find in a $30K+ BMW not a $20K vehicle.

This car has incredible handling, the rear suspension arragement comes straight from the BMW 3 series (This car is FWD, yet it has a rear suspension designed for a RWD car)and the wheels are pushed far into the corners for glue like stability.

The 2 1.6L engines are very smooth for this class of car. The Base Cooper gets a 115HP 1.6L SOHC "Pentagon" engine. Make no mistake. This engine feels much more powerful of what it really is and provides strong take offs and excellent highway passing power. No this is not your everyday Honda Civic engine. This engine has a "Timing Chain" instead of being driven by a less durable "Timing Belt". The car only weighs 2,500 pounds curb weight so the engine is never overtaxed. Also this engine is extremely smooth and quiet for the class. Want to hear a truly noisy engine? Try driving the 2.0L Gasoline engine in the VW Golf or Jetta. Its loud and coarse under acceleration, which is not the case with the 1.6L in the MINI.

The Cooper S has a 160HP Supercharged version of the same engine. 0 to 60 MPH times are in the 7.5 range with this motor.

The Pentagon 1.6L engine was a joint development between Chrysler and BMW and it is built in Brazil. The rest of the MINI parts are 100% european origin with the exception, as noted before, for the engine.

The MINI offers 3 transmission options: a 5 or 6 speed manual and a CVT (Continously variable) automatic transmission with programmed "6 speeds" Steptronic clutchless manual shifting mode.

Rear seat comfort is actually very good given the exterior dimensions of the car. The rear seat, contrary to popular belief, is very, very comfortable. I am 5'10" and was in the back seat in complete comfort. Leg and foot room is decent. You'll be much more cramped and confined in a VW New Beetle. Head room front and back is excellent thanks to the tall roof design and square shape of the car. Even if the car comes with a sunroof, there is no intrusion into headroom space.

I could go on and on and on about this car. Granted the MINI is not meant to be a mainstream car and it is not for everyone. However, this car has jaw dropping engineering and quality that completely sets it apart from any of its dubious British car ancestors.

Again, give it a try, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

drivinisfun · July 2002

Well this weekend my wife and I decided to "Bite the Bullet" and formally placed an order for a new 2002 or 2003 MINI Cooper Base model. Depending upon on the remaining slots available for the end of the 2002 production year, which ends in August, we might get a new '02 with a delivery date of late September or if these production slots are no longer available in the waiting list, then we will get a new 2003 Cooper with a September build date to be delivered in late October. Anyway we look at it, waiting times for the base model are indeed shrinking. If you want a Cooper 'S' however, wating times still average between 10 to 12 months, according to our dealer.

Our dealer doesn't yet know what MSRP price hikes and other changes will be added in the '03 models. They'll get this information in August. If we end up getting a new '03 I hope the price increase is not more than $500 over the '02's and that a center front armrest console is included as standard equipment. We shall see.

We test drove a Base CVT model and came away impressed. We had never driven a CVT transmission equipped car before. The engine feels very strong from the get go and the transmission performance and shift quality is truly outstanding...needless to say we were sold on it! The "6 speed" Steptronic mode makes up somewhat for the lack of the clutch pedal. The tranny behaves exactly as if you were driving a stick shift car, minus the clutch pedal. Very entertaining for the side of me that misses meshing my own gears from time to time, yet pleases the wife with a seamless and responsive tranny. Rickrover, give it a try... I suspect you will come away equally impressed!

I really liked the multifuction steering wheel. Worth very penny of it. Nice grip from the leather covered steering wheel and great ergonomics to operate the basic radio controls from the wheel. A must in this car. The radio is mounted very low in the center stack and even the tiny buttons make it difficult to safely change stations, change CD tracks or even change volume settings without taking your eyes off the road. When are the Germans going to learn to apply common sense ergonomics into their car stereos??

Anyway, either way we go, we'll be pretty happy. We liked the rear seat room and comfort. Not bad at all. We were expecting a pretty cramped car but the exterior dimensions don't tell the whole story about the very efficient interior packing engineered into these car. The trunk is tiny, but for carry grocery bags should be more than enough.

Here is a summary of what we ordered:

Solid Pepper white exterior paint finish with black roof and rear view exterior mirror caps.

CVT automatic transmission

Multifunction steering wheel with Cruise Control

Standard black leatherette seats. (We were debating going to cloth seats instead, but our other car already has cloth seats, so better to change a bit the tone).

Silver interior door panels.

That's it. Pretty much a basic car, but really, really nice. We are very excited...can't wait!

Originally we were thinking of going with the Red Velvet Metallic exterior paint color with the white roof and mirrors. The dealer had a demo colored this way. The car looks beautiful, but found the Velvet Red is darker than we originally tought. We live in a very hot climate and dark colors are not very encouraged upon. Also they are harder to keep clean, etc. Plus, if we had gone with Velvet Red we would had to pay $400 extra for the metallic paint option.

I was prepared to hate the White Pepper color as it looks awful in the website and barely OK in pictures. In person, however, this color is stunning specially the the black contrasting roof. The white pepper scheme is a "Cream" color. Pictures don't do enough justice to this color at all. In fact when shopping for a MINI I suggest going with an open mind in regards to the exterior colors. When you see the cars in person it is totally different from what you see in the brochure or the MINIUSA.COM website.

crcoxe · July 2002

Congrats! With the discussion on the pepper white, I have been very curious to see one, but haven't yet. I can imagine that the cream color with the black roof/mirrors looks great. You say it's "pretty much a basic car," but as I am sure you know even the base model comes with all the toys you could ask for and then some. You really can't go wrong. I assume you got the 15" wheels - which style did you go for, the circle design or the spokes? If you get the '03, it will be interesting to see if they add a center console/armrest. It's my only real gripe about this year's model.

Happy motoring!

joe249 · July 2002

I'm not dissing the car,if it's being built under the auspices of BMW.However, I wouldn't buy a Chrysler product unless Mercedes made it ,or the parts were 95% Dahmler Benz.
My wife has a BMW 528 and I drive an Acura Type S. I worry about quality and so far the previous British Autos with their boots and bonnets haven't impressed me.
So what's a basic car? Is this a car to go to market with? Enjoy your new wheels.

vor503rf · July 2002

I've only been on this list for a few weeks and enjoyed reading the speculation in the beginning and your thoughts after ownership.

We finally got the Brecht Mini dealership finished near San Diego and I took a very long lunch to drive to the new store. There must have been 30 BMW salesmen from the main store with the Mini guys getting a customer service and philosophy briefing in-mass. I could see some demo models in front and on the showroom, plus another 12 or so around back. This was looking great so far. I hadn't been able to see how long their list was since they only had a recording during the building construction. I'm here, and I have the time to just mill around and kick tires, looking under the hood and then I found the "marketing adjustment" sticker. I should have pre-dialed 911 on my cell phone and had my finger on the send button. I almost had a heart attack, and not a single salesman to help revive me on the show room floor, is that a first?

So now I'm not as happy as I was on the drive to the store. After reading about so many dealers that were not adjusting over MSRP and now to find them 7-9k over, this has turned into a tragedy for me. I'd like to buy locally to start a relationship with THE dealer, this means waiting a year perhaps for this part of the industry to level off a bit.

hpulley4 · July 2002

It is an Alpine head unit in the base stereo so don't blame German design for the small controls! I find with time, they become easy to use without looking. I just put my right wrist on the shift knob and the controls are right there.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Unbelievable! Go somewhere else. If no one buys from those thieves, perhaps they will learn their lesson. Send an email to MINI USA and MINI head office if you can.

crcoxe · July 2002

While it's obvious from my earlier postings that I absolutely love the MINI, I would never, I mean NEVER shell out $7-9K over MSRP. While these cars may not depreciate as fast as other cars, they certainly won't hold that kind of value. Talk about upside-down!

Anyway, if you are serious about buying a MINI, I have an idea for you. If you have some vacation time coming to you, plan a road trip. Find a dealer that will charge MSRP without required add-ons. You can spec the car over the phone, fly to wherever the dealer is and drive it home. For the cost of a plane ticket and some gas, you avoid premium pricing and get some adventure in your new wheels.

Just a thought.

Kirstie_H · July 2002

Remember when the VW New Beetle came out, and there was a waiting list, and people were paying over MSRP for them? Well, a few years down the road you couldn't move around VW lots for all the Beetles sitting out there. Patience may be the key.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

silver_bullet · July 2002

Patience is definitely the answer. Since there are no dealers in my state, patience is the ONLY answer

Some dealers from out of state are willing to sell cars to non-locals, others aren't - you need to call around and check before traveling. Several months back, I was in D.C. visiting friends and went to MINI of Sterling (VA). The GM there said she would not sell me a car because I was "out of her area". Go figure.

nyccarguy · July 2002

and then the price will be driven down to maybe MSRP or below. Patience is the key.

The MINI is a great NYC car due to it's size. I saw one squeezed into a tight space (between a crosswalk and a Cadillac Escalade).

milwaukeeboy · July 2002

There is no way that you should pay over MSRP! Especially for a base model. Incidentally were those prices on base or s?

Anyway patience is one ally but the phone is the other. I personally have money down in another state because there is a 5k markup on s models here in my hometown. I figure a plane ticket is way cheaper than 5-7 or 9k! I have also heard that getting a car transported from the east coast to the midwest costs about $500 so you probably wouldn't even have to drive it home.

As someone has suggested here before, call in an increasing radius from your house. Another tip: try the dealerships that are not quite open or have just opened, they tend to be a little more hungry (although a hungry MINI dealer is like a thirsty fish :-) ).

Good Luck!

p.s. I put my money down a few weeks ago for an october order, december/january delivery of an S. This is better news than the 1 year time frame that many are repeating.

Kirstie_H · July 2002

Heck, there's one that's been sitting on a lot just near my house (St. Louis) for about a month now. Guess it just depends on the area.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

milwaukeeboy · July 2002

one what?!?!

base, s, what are the specs?

Kirstie_H · July 2002

milwaukeeboy, i haven't the slightest idea as I'm not shopping for one! I think it's the dark green and white -- does that help?

I do drive by it most every day, though, so if you're seriously inquiring I wouldn't mind swinging by there to ask.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

hpulley4 · July 2002

I don't think the S comes in British Racing Green so I suspect it is a Cooper.

raybear · July 2002

My understanding is Brecht is backed up 3 years or so, many other dealers are in the same boat.

milwaukeeboy · July 2002

Thanks for the offer. I just spoke to them on the phone, they have decided not to do business outside their area in order to give the utmost support to their local clientele.

I agree with hpulley4 that as yet the S is not shipping with BRG. That car could also be their demo; sorry to all you curious out there, I didn't get around to asking about it once I found out that they didn't want to sell to me.

joe249 · July 2002

I think you have to have patience and you'll see the prices drop on the mini's.
My wife's 528 had to be serviced,and while I was waiting ,I checked out the mini . Also, I asked for prices and told dealer what some of the posted prices dealers were charging over MSRP and he said it's worth what people will pay.
This car, is a fad,like when the new beetle came out .Give it time and you'll buy it at TMV. I say a year.
I didn't bother to test drive it.The only reason I can see to buy a car like the mini is for a toy,or if you live in a country where the excise tax is based on the weight of the car as they do in Europe and in some states in America.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Perhaps if you took one for a test drive, you'd see why it was not just a toy.

You can't say it is a fad at this point -- only time will tell.

I didn't buy one on looks alone, I bought it for the handling and the small size. I don't need a land yacht to get to work every day. It is fun to drive, doesn't have minivan-style height and visibility like many other popular compact hatchbacks.

They are at MSRP here and since there are some sitting on the lot waiting to be bought I wonder if I might have been able to go lower -- at the time I didn't think I had a chance of haggling on the price.

tauyeung · July 2002

Yes, it's a toy. But wait, it's more! I suspect the MINI will succeed in crash tests because it has a lot of mass for the size (my Escort weighs the same but a bit bigger) and more modern computer aided design techniques. Given that the New Beetle does well in crash tests, I doubt BMW would have allowed the MINI to be inferior.

I just sent an email to a local (as in within 2 miles) dealership to see how much they are charging. I agree that 7k over MSRP is way too much. Given the supply-demand condition, I am expecting the local dealership to pad at least 5k on top. That's too much for my taste as well. Too bad BMW missed the .com boom, otherwise we may be looking at 100% over MSRP!

As many pointed out, waiting is probably the best strategy for us.

stryder · July 2002

so I read the newest review, with the cvt... and noticed its author states the cruise buttons don't light up on the steering wheel. So that brings up three options - does that actually change if you get the nav system, did the author just not adjust the brightness enough to see them light, or by not light up did they mean they're not automatically light like the radio or the display in the tach without turning on the interior lights? anyone have a view?

crcoxe · July 2002

They do illuminate, but only with the headlights on. The only things I notice that illuminate automatically are the red line on the tac, the radio, and the auto climate control. During the day, you shouldn't need illumination to see the buttons on the wheel anyway. Of course, mine does not have CVT, but I can't imagine that would change anything on the steering wheel. To the best of my knowledge, the nav system does not affect the illumination of buttons either. Not sure why anyone would sink $1600 into the nav system anyway - seems like a waste of money to me.

dendroica · July 2002

I ordered my S at Westchester MINI two weeks ago. Delivery should be October or November, and I paid list.

They said that if I'd wanted a stripper (no options) I could have one in July, again not a dime above list. Manhattan MINI has a massive wait, and likes to put those killer $3K rims on the car, but again technically they too charge list.

nyccarguy · July 2002

Westchester BMW & BMW of Manhattan (and their MINI franchises) are wholy owned subsidiaries of BMWNA (company stores). They can't charge over sticker! Congrats on your MINI COOPER S order!

scottphillip · July 2002

I got turned off on Mini at the Orlando dealership because of the mandatory $1,500 in accessories. I bought a pickup truck for fun in as a second car.

drivinisfun · July 2002

"Congrats! With the discussion on the pepper white, I have been very curious to see one, but haven't yet. I can imagine that the cream color with the black roof/mirrors looks great. You say it's "pretty much a basic car," but as I am sure you know even the base model comes with all the toys you could ask for and then some. You really can't go wrong. I assume you got the 15" wheels - which style did you go for, the circle design or the spokes? If you get the '03, it will be interesting to see if they add a center console/armrest. It's my only real gripe about this year's model.

Happy motoring!"

I appreciate your enthusiasm!

Sure, we are very excited about getting our new Cooper at the end of September. That's right, our dealer (BMW/MINI Lauderdale Imports)still had a few slots available for the end of the 2002 production run. They called me on Monday and confirmed that we could still be able to order a brand new 2002 Cooper and take delivery in about 3 months. Not bad at all. However I was given the option to get a new 2003 with a September build date and a late October delivery date. We could have gone this route but since we want to get a hold of the car sooner rather than later and in addition to the expected MSRP price hikes on the '03's (Pricing MSRP lists for 2003 will be available in August), we decided to stay with the '02 model year and get one of the very last cars made for this year's run.

The only changes I have read about for 2003 are the possible addition of a standard front center console/armrest and the deletion of the "Silk Green Metallic" paint. I have no idea whether these rumors are true or not. (I have found a place that manufactures aftermarket front center armrests for the Cooper).

The last model year 2002 MINIs will be built during August 2002. Cars built on or after September 2002, will officially be 2003 model year vehicles.

I imagine this production cycle also applies to the Cooper 'S' models.

When we went in last weekend to test drive and order our Cooper, we originally had decided to get a Velvet Red Metallic car with white roof and mirror caps. We found the color to be very nice, but darker than we actually would like it to be. As much as I like dark cars, I tend to shy away for them due to our year round climatic conditions (Hot and muggy South Florida) and dark paints are generally a royal pain in the rear end to keep looking great.

However, Lauderdale Imports had a Pepper White Cooper with Black roof for a demo. The car came with the "Kaleido" cloth interior with red seat inserts and red door panels. It was a 5-speed and I think it had the Sport Package with the nice 5-spoke wheels and the run flat tires. The car looked terrific. Pepper white is not your everyday white car as it is a off white or cream color. Is not like a Diamond Metallic paint either. The color is surprinsigly very rich looking with fantastic "Depth". I can't accurately describe it, you have to see it in person under direct sunlight as we did last weekend. This is one of the most beautifully done white paint finishes that I have seen on a production car in recent time. This is the kind of color you probably will find on a classic Jaguar F-type coupe...is that nice! The Cooper looks very elegant in Pepper white and the Chrome accents in the body work are further enhanced against the cream color panels. The black roof adds a very nice contrast and noticed how it matches so much better with the black "Cladding" in the edges of the wheel wells and the car's underbody.

Representation made in the internet of Pepper white Coopers simply do not do enough justice to the quality of this color.

Anyone considering a new Base Cooper and living in the "Sunbelt" states should seriously consider taking a look at one. My wife hates white cars but needless to say, she ended up picking out the Pepper White..is that nice!

One thing that I feel BMW should modify a bit is the Base Cooper color palette. Sure there are 12 colors to choose from, but 7 colors are of 12 are mostly dark or darker paints. To me Chili Red and Liquid Yellow (The most common Cooper colors seen around here) fall somewhere in the middle. Both are solid finishes that are neither too light or too dark. But both call too much attention upon the car...this could either be good or bad depending on what you like the most. The only colors suitable for hot weather in the Base Cooper color chart are the Pepper white, Silk Green (Nice color but could make the car a difficult sell in the future) and Pure Silver which is nice but I much prefer the Dark Silver theme offered in the Cooper 'S'. I have never been too crazy about silver cars. Someone told me that Silver cars are much more difficult to see at night. This is just hearsay, I have no evidence to support that.

We also got the 8-Spoke 15" alloy wheels which are offered as a no cost option over the much more blah looking (They are nice but not my taste)7 Hole design 15" standard wheels. My favorites are the 5-spoke wheels offered with the 16" runflat tires but we did not want to pay another $500 for these wheels, considering the cost of replacing them ($200+ a tire) and the fact that the car already offers free 24 hour roadside assistance for 4 years or 50,000 miles. If the car hadn't offered free roadside assistance, we probably would have gone for the runflats instead.

We ordered the standard Panther Black Leatherette seats with Silver door panels just to contrast what would otherwise be a very black interior. We liked the red "Kaleido" cloth seats with red door panels (They do match terrific with the Pepper white paint) but decided against as we might grown sick of looking at a red interior and again making the car harder to sell in the future due to the unsual interior color. A Black/Silver interior is more agreeable to a lot of people, plus we felt we wqould enjoy it more over the years and not grown sick of it.

We also ordered the CVT tranny. I agree with some of the Edmund's comments about the kinda akward shift action of the steptronic (During the test drive I almost could not get a hang of it as the shifter uses reverse logic to upshift/downshift thru the 6 programmed gears). I would have preferred steering wheel buttons as the ones found in the Lexus IS300 sedan with E-Shift. Much nicer ergonomically speaking. But I don't fully agree with Edmund's about the acceleration quality of the car with the CVT. We did not buy the Cooper to win stoplight contests. We had an opportunity to drive the car in dense, fast moving traffic and did not find it lacking in response or downshift reponse. MINI does not market this car as a tire/asphalt burner. Cooments like this totally make me be skiptical about the accuracy of the information protrayed in Edmund's reviews. Too much opinion and little objectivity. I was cracking up about the comment of a Hyundai Elantra being faster off the line than a CVT Cooper...who the heck cares???

silver_bullet · July 2002

I think the white and black color combo looks great, but I'd never get a car with a black roof in a sunbelt state. I live in south TX, and the same applies to us - that roof is likely going to make for a very warm interior come summertime.

stryder · July 2002

drivinisfun - minus the obvious $500 cost for the 16" wheels and the run flats, you might want to keep in mind that all coopers come with a donut/mini-spare tire, so its really quite feasable to replace the runflat tires with normal tires at under $100 each (tirerack only seems to have one kind of tire in 195/55/16 but I have yet to look very far, and its like $75 each) you may have your reasons, but if you do really like the 16" wheels, you can keep your options open still for replacement tires.

the two other rumored changes for '03 include slightly different seat controls (I believe the slide adjustment moves to the side of the seat, but that has already happened on later '02's from what I hear) and new cupholders, since most everyone agrees there's only one usable one in the rear of the car as the fronts are too small for most everything.

Otherwise congrats on getting your order in, and enjoy the wait.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Only cars without runflats come with spares&jacks or the MINI mobility kit (can of goo and a compressor). Some early cars with runflats came with spares&jacks but it was a mistake. You can buy spare&jacks or the mobility kit separately though.

Personally, I like the peace of mind the runflats give. Note that they have much greater range than your average space-saver spare. The runflats go 250km at 80km/h while most space-savers go less than 100km.

stryder · July 2002

well I guess I was lucky then, no one at the dealer seemed to think it was odd I had runflats and the spare...sorry for the aparantly wrong info. I certainly like the piece of mind, but depending on where I end up next year, I may want snow tires, which I have yet to see in runflat, so its nice to keep my options open.

drivinisfun · July 2002

For the heck of it (Got to love Sunday afternoons!), I did some research to see if indeed the new MINI is the smallest car sold in America in recent time. Well, the MINI is indeed the SHORTEST car sold in America lengthwise, but hardly the tinniest of them all. I made a quick comparison among all available subcompacts in the US and here is what I found:

Shortest (Lengthwise) Subcompacts:

1)MINI Cooper = 142.8 in.
2)Chevy/Geo Metro - Suzuki Swift (Discontinued as of 2001, 3 door model) = 149.4 in.
3)Toyota MR2 Spyder = 153.0
4)Honda Insight = 155.0
5)Mazda Miata = 155.3
6)Daewoo Lanos = 160.4
7)Toyota Echo = 163.2
8) Suzuki Esteem = 166.3
9) KIA Rio sedan = 165.9
10)Hyundai Accent = 166.7
11)Toyota Prius = 169.6
12)Ford Escort ZX2 Coupe = 175.2

By Wheelbase:
1)Mazda Miata = 89.2
2)Chevy/Geo Metro - Suzuki Swift (Discontinued as of 2001, 3 door model) = 93.1
3)Toyota Echo = 93.3
4)Honda Insight = 94.5
5)KIA Rio = 94.9
6)Hyundai Accent = 96.1
7)Toyota MR2 Spyder = 96.5
8)MINI Cooper = 97.1
9)Suzuki Esteem = 97.6
10)Ford Escort ZX2 = 98.4
11)Daewoo Lanos = 99.2

By Width:
1)Chevy/Geo Metro - Suzuki Swift (Discontinued as of 2001, 3 door model) = 62.6
2)Toyota Echo = 65.4
3)Hyundai Accent = 65.7
4)KIA Rio = 65.9
5)Mazda Miata = 66.0
6)Daewoo Lanos & Suzuki Esteem = 66.1
7)MINI Cooper = 66.5
8)Honda Insight, Toyota Prius,Toyota MR2 = 66.7
9)Ford Escort ZX2 = 67.4

And by laden weight:
1)Honda Insight = 1,878 lbs
2)Chevy/Geo Metro - Suzuki Swift (Discontinued as of 2001, 3 door model) = 1,895 lbs
3)Toyota Echo = 2,055 lbs
4)Toyota MR2 = 2,195 lbs
5)KIA Rio = 2,242 lbs
6)Hyundai Accent = 2,255 lbs
7)Suzuki Esteem = 2,271 lbs
8)MINI Cooper = 2,315 lbs
9)Mazda Miata = 2,387 lbs
10)Daewoo Lanos = 2,447 lbs
11)Ford Escort ZX2 = 2,464 lbs
12)Toyota Prius = 2,765 lbs

The MINI is by an inch or so almost as wide as other popular bigger compacts such as the Ford Focus, VW Golf and Honda Civic.

drivinisfun · July 2002

I had an opportunity to test drive a Cooper fitted with the 16" runflats tires. I think the ride quality somewhat deteriorates with these tires due to their very stiff than usual sidewalls. I still think the safety element they offer is paramount specially for women. We passed on them however for 3 reasons:

1)Stiffer ride quality
2)Car already offers 4 years or 50K miles of free roadside assistance.
3)Car will be driven daily over short distances.

To a lesser extent, the added cost of fitting the car with these tires (Albeit the 5 spoke alloys make it worth it on them alone) and the cost of replacing these runflat tires.

We still have time to change our minds should we decide to add them to our existing order. But overall I found the standard 15" pretty competent under normal urban driving conditions. The 8 spoke wheels are also very nice.

Another point that I have started debating is on the front and rear chrome bumper accents. We ordered our Cooper without them. Not because we don't like them but mostly every Cooper we have seen so far already has the extra chrome bumper accents attached. The Cooper 'S' does not have these chrome accents in the bumpers which adds to their sportier appearance.

However, the chrome accents seem to further enhance the Pepper White paint, but it is a toss up between wanting the "Sportier" look vs the "Classier" look. My wife does not want the bumper accents as she thinks the car has enough chrome in it (Front grille, headlight rims, door handles, window weatherstrip trim and rear tailght license plate accent)and it looks nice as is. But I am still over the fence as if the car will look better with them, but at the same time having the bumpers fully color body matched would make the car more unique looking.

Has anyone ordered/bought a new Cooper with or without the bumper chrome accents? Why did you order the car with or without them?

Would it be too much chrome on a Pepper White car? The wife seems to think so...

hpulley4 · July 2002

I traded in a '95 Geo Metro on my MINI Cooper. Believe me, those 4" of extra width and wheelbase make a huge difference, as does the extra weight. In crosswinds the Metro felt like it was going to blow off the road while the MINI feels like it's on rails.

I love the 16" 5-star wheels and find the handling of the Goodyear Eagle NCT5 EMT (runflat) tires to be excellent. The ride is stiff but I have real fun driving this car so I want the best handling I can get.

In Canada you generally get the chrome bumpers with the premium package (which has 15" wheels) but body-coloured with the sport package. My Launch Edition car is 'unique' up here in that it has chrome bumpers on the sport package car. I love the chrome, but my car is IndiBlue -- I haven't seen a while one in the flesh so I'm not sure which I'd prefer but on blue and red I much prefer the chrome.

johnny36 · July 2002

Drivinisfun,

I ordered my BRG with white roof without the chrome accents.

Reasons; NYC and NJ parking lots will result in bumper taps (or even hits) and I could see the chrome being scraped off in no time.

I also wanted the car to reference the classic rally Mini, so the striped down look was definitely what I was going for. I also added rally lights, so there is more than enough chrome.

Good luck on that fence...

milwaukeeboy · July 2002

Hey all,

I have found a dealer willing to order an 'S' right now, but they say that certain options are not yet available for the 'S'. The two in question are 1) cold weather package (web site says available 9/02) and 2) British Racing Green (web site says available soon).

My question is who else has heard anything about the availability of these options? To the best of my knowledge both are shipping on the base cooper right?

drivinisfun · July 2002

"ordered my BRG with white roof without the chrome accents.

Reasons; NYC and NJ parking lots will result in bumper taps (or even hits) and I could see the chrome being scraped off in no time."

That's an excellent point indeed. Although the chrome bumper accents tend to look nicer and enhance the overall look of the car, I figure it is easier to repair a scratched or dinged painted bumper than one with a chrome strip in it. I could be wrong, but I think trying to repair or restore a damaged chrome strip could be harder than repainting over the affected area of the bumper.

Also if you want a more classic/cleaner/sportier look, the color body painted bumper strips may make more sense than the more common chrome accents.

Decisions, decisions.....

huckhill · July 2002

I took a look at my other love and found that although the Cooper is nearly 10 inches shorter than the Jeep Wrangler, it is about the same width and actually has a longer wheelbase (by almost 4 inches).

Thanks to these comparisons, the Mini suddenly seems less tiny.

drivinisfun · July 2002

"ordered my BRG with white roof without the chrome accents.

Reasons; NYC and NJ parking lots will result in bumper taps (or even hits) and I could see the chrome being scraped off in no time."

That's an excellent point indeed. Although the chrome bumper accents tend to look nicer and enhance the overall look of the car, I figure it is easier to repair a scratched or dinged painted bumper than one with a chrome strip in it. I could be wrong, but I think trying to repair or restore a damaged chrome strip could be harder than repainting over the affected area of the bumper.

Also if you want a more classic/cleaner/sportier look, the color body painted bumper strips may make more sense than the more common chrome accents.

Decisions, decisions.....

drivinisfun · July 2002

The MINI is a pretty deceiving car sizewise. I find some of the comments here in Edmund's as well as from some detractors of this car in the automotive press, to greatly exaggerate the exterior and interior dimension "Constraints" of the MINI vs other cars in its immediate size class. (Remember the MINI is in a class of its own).

I am 5'10" and found the back seat very comfortable, much more so than the back seat of the "Larger" VW Golf 5 door hatchback. Sure I would not want to spend 3 hours back there, but for quick urban jaunts the back seat is not the torture chamber some might want you to believe. My head never touched the headliner/roof and not even the hatchback glass, even if I wanted to. The test Cooper had the panoramic sunroof. We were very pleased with the overall roominess of the Cooper's interior given the short overall length. The front is roomier than the VW Golf and affords better headroom and shoulder room.

To gain a good appreciation for the engineering prowess and interior design of the Cooper, I suggest for some of you to ride in the back seat of a VW New Beetle, new Hyundai Tiburon, Toyota Celica, etc, etc. Not fun at all.

The only area that truly affects the Cooper's short overall length is in the trunk space with the seats up.

Some members of the American Automotive press can't seem to get over the size of the car and give it the recognition it truly deserves.

If you want a drag racer, get yourself a Mustang, Camaro or Firebird. If you want a high quality car with a degree of engineering and attention to detail in vehicles costing much more $$$ and fun around the twisties, the MINI is a a package which is hard to beat, even at full MSRP.

Trust me, we looked around and saw everyhting from the Pontiac Vibe, Focus, Sentra all the way to the Cooper.

tollag · July 2002

The cold weather package is still there. There were however two things removed from it, the heated fron windsceen, and the auto-dimming rear view mirror. And about the BRG, that is an option that can be ordered, and by the time your order actually gets placed, it should be available!

milwaukeeboy · July 2002

I took a picture of a pepper white MINI. It seems like the total drivinisfun package right down to the lack of chrome line! You can click on this pic for a bigger version or go to More mini pix for more.

MINI Cooper

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