Mazda Protege5

coznefx · April 2002

I was wondering about the benifits of giving this a try. As I've mentioned on this forum my MPG continues to be miserable (I just had my worst tank yet at 17 mpg). Since no one (Mazda North America nor the dealer) has any solutions, I thought I'd at least try a new filter before I throw in the towel.

btw, pciskowski I had the same problem which I solved the same way...for weeks I thought the rattle was coming from the passenger door.

riopelle · April 2002

I like the new alloys, but I do prefer the originals, at least from the pic. Look at the spokes near the tire, Sharon, you'll see the new ones flare up to a raised plateau with sharp edges. The 2002 ones were smooth hub to tire.

Glad to see that Mazda is tinkering with the P5. I'd love to see:

more power - the 2.3 will be nice.
heated seats.
better stereo.
more cockpit storage - the cd case slot below the hvac is blocked if you're using the cupholders - pure stupidity.
Bigger moonroof - obviously this one fits the sedan, but they could make one 5" deeper with the hatch.

Happy friday to all.

protege_fan · April 2002

Some people have tried the K&N filter over in the Sedans board. H (Hank) has reported moderate mpg gains.

maltb · April 2002

All look like neat plates. good luck with your decision.

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

ZOOMIN5

I think it says it best.

-jim

sharonf · April 2002

riopelle - yeah...now I see what you're talking about. I think I like the old ones better too. Oh well...I was planning on buying aftermarket wheels eventually anyways....now I"ll just have more reason to do so!

Thanks for the plate info everyone

mustang87 · April 2002

"more cockpit storage - the cd case slot below the hvac is blocked if you're using the cupholders - pure stupidity"

it appears the updated one does not have the door there. if you take a look at the picture of the sporttronic tranny you will find that the door is not in the picture. btw, if you keep a cd there under a/c control and you are using a cupholder, door or no door you won't be able to take it out. but for smaller stuff without the door you would have been able to reach it with a cup in passenger cupholder. even though i like the door, it keeps the dust out, i agree with you about it blocking the storage area. why not make it a sliding door so it would hid under that little storage space under a/c controls? another thing is that if you have a radar detector plugged into the power outlet, the passenger cupholder becomes unusable, not that it was usable before, everything keeps falling out of it. Was it that hard to make it deeper, mazda? how about making the armrest box deeper and at the same time raising the height so we can actually be able to rest our arm there. anyways, back to studying for the finals. wish me luck everybody

limpyboy · April 2002

Wow. Saw a new sight on my P5 today. At dusk, the white background of the gauges was still visitible but it was dark enough to see the glow of the backlighting.

It was super cool.

Good luck, Mustang87.

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

I'm going to be buying a car in the next month or so, and the P5 is on the top of my list. It's a great value and it's gorgeous!

I'm hoping that someone can recap the changes for the mid-year update. I know there will be a new auto tranny (I'm getting a 5-spd) and two more speakers and I seem to recall reading that there will be a passenger-side central locking switch.

Can anyone point me to a list of the updates? I'm trying to figure out if I should try to get a good deal on a pre-update car, or pay a bit more (and wait?) for an updated one.

-jim

sharonf · April 2002

Hi Jim,
I have ordered a mid-year update P5 and from what I've been able to determine the updates are the sport-shift automatic, leather interior option, the additional speakers you mentioned, and a slight change in the style of the alloy wheels. Those are the only changes I am aware of.
By the way, the price I'm paying is not much moret than the pre-update. I'm only paying a lil more for leather and the new sportronic option.
I'm sure there will be some good deals to be found on the pre-updates...if the updates are not important to you. Personally, I waited because I wanted the leather and new auto. Sounda like at least the new tranny is not important to you, so maybe you can find one on the lots that has everything you want!
Oh...and the new ones have already started arriving(per some Mazda employees on this site). Good luck!

Sharon

toddp_5 · April 2002

The new ones have definitely arrived, as there is one down the street from me right now. My local dealer is having a "tent" sale at a local shopping center, so I cruised through tonight. And, they had a new red one. It must be one of the "new ones" as it had different alloys than I have. One other change I saw on it (I didn't get out and look so all I noticed where the changes on the outside) were side marker lights -- yellow or amber lights on the front fenders, between the front wheels and the door.

Todd

mnkyboy · April 2002

Are you sure you saw a mid-year update P5, or just a P5 that someone customized. New alloy wheels and side marker lights are not in the list of mid-year changes.

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

Very, how you say, European!

They might be enough to sell me on the update. I've always wanted a car with side marker lights. God I'm weird!

Anyone know where the two new speakers are on the vehicle? I recall someone saying the A-pillars.

-jim

mnkyboy · April 2002

According to www.mazdausa.com , the P5 still comes with 4 speakers. As for the alloy wheels that I asked toddp_5 in my last post, they have them listed (with pic) on the site. Leather and the sport auto is the only other addon that I see. I wish someone would get a list of updates from a RELIABLE source. With all the rumors going around (like a turbo P5 coming in June), its like reading a tabloid magazine!

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

I've always wanted a car with side marker lights AND a turbo!

Maybe one of the dealers who frequent this page can tell us what we can expect for the update.

And maybe someone has spy pictures of an updated P5 frolicking naked on a beach with it's secret billionaire lover in the great tabloid tradition!

I need sleep...:)

-jim

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

FWIW Edmunds lists 6 speakers under "in-car entertainment" for the P5 in the new car section.

They also show leather and the sportshift auto to be optional only on cars built after February 2002.

-jim

silver_bullet · April 2002

When the Auto Show came through here recently, I asked a Mazda rep ("15 years with the company") about mid-year changes to the P5, the possibility of a 2.3 liter engine, and a turbo P5. Like Sgt. Schultz, he knew nothing - or wouldn't say. As long as there is an unsold P5 on the ground somewhere, I think these folks are programmed to have amnesia. As for the dealer, the salesman I worked with recently didn't know as much as I did from reading the Mazda website. Sad.

I still think the P5 is a neat car for the money, but I've decided to wait for what I really want - a MINI Cooper. There are several (like 22) P5's at my dealer, and some of them have been sitting there since last fall! Not exactly a big seller around here.

reitrof · April 2002

Looks like the exhaust by Racing Beat is finally ready. New pics on the site, and new shipments are coming in.

Anybody got one on order?

reitrof · April 2002

Anybody install one yet? How is it compared to the stock shifter? Lower and shorter throw?

Price seems to be about 135. Anybody seen them lower?

toddp_5 · April 2002

I'm sure it wasn't a customized one, as the wheels were definitely the new alloys. I'm going back by the place where the dealership had it sitting today -- I'll actually get out of the car and take a better look at it today and "report back". I'll try to take my digital camera along with me and snap some pics.

Todd

mnkyboy · April 2002

That would be great if you could take some pics so all of us can see! I havent seen any updated P5s in my area, so I dont know what to think.

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

I was on Mazdausa.com, clicked on P5 Specs, scrolled down to where it says 4 speakers are standard and then clicked on the additional info arrow. A window popped up that said the following:

"Any time can be party time in the Mazda Protegé5, thanks to the standard six-speaker* AM/FM/CD stereo system, LCD display and easy-to-use controls. Add the in-dash minidisc player and in-dash 6-CD changer—available as accessories—for nonstop entertainment. The sound system also includes a digital clock.

*Models built after 2/28/02 "

So there you have it - Proof! This is like being a forensic investigator!

-jim

toddp_5 · April 2002

Okay, I went to my dealership today and took some pics of the "mid-year" P5s they had. The dealer - Quality Imports in Fort Walton Beach, Florida - had 5 on the lot with the new alloys. There were no salesmen there since it is Sunday, so I couldn't get in the car. All of them had side marker lights on them, but I can't say if that is a dealer added item or if they came from the factory like that. However, there were no dealer add-on stickers to charge for them, and this dealership has a really good rep for not adding junk on and then charging for them...so, who knows. Anyway, I took some pics and made a quick little homepage to store them on so you can see the alloys and the cars. I also took a picture of the shifter on the automatic. Go the following address to see the pics (wasn't sure if I could/should/how to post them here, so I just threw them on a little page at my website).

http://www.black3.com/p5/

L8R,

Todd

alternator · April 2002

Great job of reporting!

sharonf · April 2002

Thanks for the pictures...that was fast! How nice to be able to look with no sales people - they drive me nuts!!
I wish they had left the alloys alone though - I much prefer the old ones >:(
Well, the dealer didn't want to switch the non-polished alloys for the polished - maybe I can try getting them to switch the new alloys for a set of old ones....fat chance....but I'll ask anyway!!
Sharon

tinytory · April 2002

So does anyone know exactly how this sport shift automatic works?

1. Do you just put it in drive, then slide it to the right and up or down depending on which gear you want to go into?

2. I assume there's no clutch, but is there a clutch-like switch or button on the shifter?

3. Are there any restrictions on which gears you can shift into? I've heard that some similar trannies don't let the driver control the shift from first to second.

4. What about gearing down when stopping? I assume the car does this automatically?

dannyrolfe · April 2002

I am about to make a decision to purchase a Protege5, however, I am also considering the Subaru Imprezza RS (2.5L) Wagon.

It seems to be about $3000 more for the Subaru over the Protege5.

It has more power (165 horses) and AWD...

Has anyone done that comparison already?

the_big_h · April 2002

the sports shift is still an automatic transmission (with torque converter, etc) under the hood. It just added the function of allowing the driver to sequentially upshift/downshift the gears more easily. So yes, there's no clutch, since technically it IS an automatic transmission.

I think the driver will have full control of all the gears in sports shift mode. They may have a safety upshift feature where it'll automatically upshift if the rev limit is reached. I also assume that once stopped, the transmission will automatically shift back into first gear....

feel free to correct!

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

Danny,

I've compared the two and there's a lot to like about both. First off though, the wagon is the TS, not the RS. The RS is the sedan version and comes standard with most of the stuff found in a WRX, except the sexy engine. The TS wagon is a little de-contented compared to the RS (rear drum brakes vs disks, and some suspension bits are different, i seem to recall).

When comparing the TS and P5, it comes down to a few basic considerations. You've already mentioned cost. The P5 costs less, but does not feature our next considration, All Wheel Drive. You get what you pay for, and the with the TS, you pay for AWD. Not only when you purchase it, but also for repairs and (possibly) insurance rates. Even a fender-bender can damage the AWD systems and repairs usually cost more than in FWD cars. But for that extra cost you get AWD traction and piece of mind in less-than-ideal driving conditions. If you live in the snowbelt and must travel during bad weather, then AWD is well worth the cost.

As far as performance goes, it's a toss up. The P5 will out corner the TS, but probably not out accelerate it. The P5 has a performanced-tuned feeling, while the TS may be more softly sprung. Again it's a matter of what you like. Keep in mind though that just because the TS has more horsepower, that doesn't mean it will blow the doors off the P5. The AWD system on the TS saps more power from the engine than the P5's front wheel drive setup.

The P5 seems a bit bigger inside to me, and the cockpit materials seem to be of a higher quality.

The TS is an aestetic snore compared to the sexy P5.

Gas mileage is better in the P5 by about 6 miles per gallon.

In the end it's all about you. If you need AWD, light cargo capacity and don't mind driving a "typical" vehicle, than the TS is an excellent choice. If you don't really need AWD, value the attractive appearance of the P5, drive long distances and use lots of gas, put a bit of performance before absolute practicality, then the P5 is for you.

For me, the P5 does the trick. It costs less, drives better and represents a ton of value for the money. And it's sexy. Perhaps the thing that put it over the top is that the P5 excites me. I have a viceral reaction to it. I get excited when I see one. The TS appeals to my intellect, but then quickly fizzles.

make mine a P5.

-jim

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

Great pics of the update. You should get the Edmunds equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize for investigative photography!

The site of side marker lights makes me giddy! Also, I might be in the minority, but I think the new rims are okay. At least they're still 5 spokes.

Did you happen to get any shots of the a-pillars (new speakers) or the front passenger door (central locking switch)? I'm curious to see what's what.

Great job, Todd!

-jim

sharonf · April 2002

Can someone please help guide me in my search of aftermarket wheels. I've been browsing different sites and am getting confused! Okay...so the stock P5 wheels are 16" in diameter...what is the width? and the offset? and the weight(so I can compare to others)?
Also...I've read posts a lot of people that have gone up to 17inch wheels. What are the pros/cons of this? Other than I would have to buy a new set of tires!
Any help would be appreciated.
Sharon

mnkyboy · April 2002

GREAT PICS toddp_5 !!! I like the pre-update alloys better, but the side markers look pretty nice. They should have removed the amber bumper "reflectors". It would have looked alot better. Where are the extra speakers located?

Also, how does the sport auto work?

protegextwo · April 2002

"Someone like Britney Spears doesn't have any integrity to maintain, so it doesn't matter..."

-Rob Zombie

http://www.motortrend.com/news/stories/020426rz.html

Shock rocker Rob Zombie prepares to take his music rights law suit against Mazda to court in July over the unauthorized use of his music in a truck commercial.

LOL!!!

Larry

silver_bullet · April 2002

Thanks for those photos. No "new" P5s on my dealer's lot yesterday - they still have too many unsold cars, so I guess they haven't asked for more. Although I like the simplicity of the old wheel, I have to admit that the car looks a bit more substantial with the new ones. Visually, I think the P5 body looked too big for the original wheel design. Love those side markers!

Sharon, try browsing an enthusiast site for the weight/offset specs of the stock wheel. I believe it is a 16x6. If you go to a 17, you'll likely end up with a 17x7, although several widths are possible. Offset refers to how far "inboard" or "outboard" the faces of the wheel sit with respect to the plane of the mounting surface of the hub. Whatever the width, offset has to be properly chosen to make sure you don't contact suspension, brake, or body parts. You will dramatically affect handling and wheel bearing life if you alter the offset too far from factory specs. Larger wheels will require lower profile tires (probably 45 series instead of the standard 50 series) to maintain nearly the same overall outer diameter - this is referred to as "plus sizing". Lower profile tires generally will ride harsher, and will provide less impact protection from potholes. They also cost more than 16s. Ideally, you want any replacement wheel/tire combo to weigh the same or less than what you started with - excess weight in the wheel/tire is called "unsprung weight", and will negatively affect ride and handling. Do your research at the Tire Rack site, and choose carefully. You could ask a guy in the parts department to bring a bare wheel to the counter... bring a set of scales and weigh it! They'll really know you are a serious customer then

dannyrolfe · April 2002

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the information. I am pretty much settled on the Protege5, I had a long test drive on the weekend and found it a very entertaining car to drive.

I can walk out the door of my local Mazda dealer with the Protege5, manual with pretty much just the standard car except for alloy wheels, for $17,000. That is including tax, license/registration fee, dealer delivery, etc. I don't mind because the base car has everything I want anyway, air, CD player, power windows etc.

I have seen people mention $16,450 including ABS, side airbags, but I am assuming that doesn't include tax, registration fee etc.?

Being new to the US (I just moved here from Sydney, Australia) I'm never sure whether you guys are quoting tax inclusive or not. It seems to be that most people talk about the before tax price.

Jim, anyone, have any feedback on that price I mentioned?

Thanks!

dannyrolfe · April 2002

I should point out that that price DOES include alloy wheels.

Thoughts?

silver_bullet · April 2002

Since tax varies by state, it makes sense to quote pricing on just the car, before adding taxes, title and licensing fees. Here in Houston, my local dealer has lots of P5s, and will sell a 5-speed base P5 with just floor mats (which is how I wanted mine) for $15,539.00 plus the above-mentioned fees.

bluong1 · April 2002

what you mean by "except ally wheels"? All P5 come with alloy wheels IIRC. As the year model is changing, may be you can get the old one with a little more rebate. Yes, here we talking more about price before tax, etc... as tax depends on where you live. $17k seems OK to me.

Last time I stopped at the dealer they have a tone of P5s seating on the lot, and you one can see most of them have corrosions on the disks of the brake like nobody testdrove them.

Bruno

maltb · April 2002

Have you tried http://www.tirerack.com ?

jim_loves_cars · April 2002

$17,000 is a decent price with tax included, but you may be able to do a bit better and get them to knock $250 - $400 off the price. You want to pay invoice price for the car, plus tax, delivery and a bit for registration. Edmunds is a good resource for discerning a car's invoice price, as is CarsDirect.com.

Looking at your deal, it seems you'll be paying a couple hundred bucks over invoice, which isn't bad.

And we ALWAYS discuss prices without considering tax. In America, we're taught never to consider tax costs when making a major purchase decision!

The deal I want is the car, ABS & side airbags, moonroof, moonroof deflector, cargo tray and floor mats for $16,999 (+tax, of course!). And it HAS to be the mid-year update model with the tasty (hope hope) side marker lights! Anyone think I can do it?

-jim

PS -Danny - what color?

bigdaddycoats · April 2002

About six weeks I took a P5 for a test drive. My overall impression of the vehicle was good. The main problem that I found is that the stick shift seemed to vibrate a lot. I would find this very annoying in everyday use. Has anyone else experienced this problem or did the P5 I drove have something wrong with it?

protege_fan · April 2002

No, I don't think anything is wrong. The shifter is rod actuated and will vibrate. Cable actuated shifters will not vibrate, and IMHO are not as good. How do you quantify "a lot?"

bluong1 · April 2002

I never noticed my shifter vibrates a lot. I alway heard that Nissan cars are worse.

Bruno

protege_fan · April 2002

From Sport Compact Car: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/archives/tech/tech02_0601.shtml

Whereas other compact cars employ a cable-actuated shift mechanism, Honda chose to stick with a proven and sturdy rod linkage. This set-up has several advantages over a cable system. During aggressive use, cable-actuated shifters sometimes bind up, causing missed shifts or requiring the driver to double-clutch to get the car into gear. Though newer cable systems are less prone to this, rod linkages still have an edge in this area.The other advantage is shift feel. Rod linkages have a delightfully direct, mechanical feel. At idle, the shifter will often

quiver slightly, a sign that it is positively connected to the powertrain. In contrast, cable linkages transmit almost no vibration or feedback through the shifter, the knob standing absolutely still at idle. In the fanatical zeal to rid modern cars of "noise, vibration and harshness," many OEMs have chosen cable mechanisms to isolate the cabin and driver from this feedback. More often than not, they do not consult the enthusiast community on these decisions.

clayman1000 · April 2002

So what is the difference in the old auto and new auto shifter? Why the 'upgrade'?
I was attracted to the P5 but it always comes in last in comparisons with other cars in it's class. Most having to do with cheap looking interior and poor audio.
Why not consider a Ford ZX5? Seems to come loaded with power everything and no recalls.

Silver... Are you really looking to buy the Mini? What is the attraction besides the styling ? I thought you had problems with the Zx3 first year model? Are you nervous about the Mini reliability first year? It only gets 110 HP! Looks like a death trap if in an accident. IMHO.

protege_fan · April 2002

Not sure what, if any, differences in auto shifters there are. I was talking about manual stick shifts.

There have not been any recalls for 2002 Proteges and only 1 recall for 2001. There were 3 different recalls for the Ford Focus in 2001. What exactly are you talking about clayman?

clayman1000 · April 2002

No recalls for the ZX5. Recalls for the 'Focus'. There are Six models of 'Focus'!!

protege_fan · April 2002

Ah...ok. It didn't say which trim level it was for in the NHTSA database.

clayman1000 · April 2002

Here is a snippet from the Car and Driver review:

The complete ZX5 package includes six-spoke, 16-inch aluminum wheels; P205/50HR-16 tires; fog lamps; a six-disc, in-dash CD changer; a remote keyless entry system; power windows and door locks; air conditioning; a fat steering wheel that tilts and telescopes; Ford's SecuriLock passive anti-theft system; and electronic speed controlfor the ordinary sum of $16,135 in Sangria Red with medium graphite low-back bucket seats.

Mazda Protege5

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