Mazda Protege5

jstandefer · May 2002

Another reason the metallics (or mica in most Mazda's) look better over the years is the clearcoat. Mazda does not apply a clearcoat on their Classic Red. It requires a lot of maintenance to keep it shiny and it will oxidize (turn "chalky") if not taken care of.

My Classic Red '99 ES sedan still looks as shiny as it did 3.5 years ago when I bought it. At least three times a year, I spend a whole day on it. First, I wash it really well. Then, I apply a chemical cleaner which removes any oxidation and stains. I follow the chemical cleaning with a good polish which restores the lost minerals and oils back to the paint's finish. Finally, I protect it with two coats of wax. I use Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub Paint Cleaner to chemically clean (I know it says clear coat, but it works with or without one), Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish, and Meguiar's Gold Class wax.

A severely oxidized red car (paint not peeling) can be brought back to show room shine with some time and effort. The oxidation actually forms a protective layer, much like aluminium does when it oxidizes.

You can check out my car's Classic Red finish here.

sharonf · May 2002

Hey everyone...this clearcoat issue has been settled before....see prior posts....

#3093 of 4251 re re: Clearcoat by coznefx Mar 18, 2002 (12:49 pm)
OK, had to resolve this...just got off the phone with the manager at the dealer's body shop...and YES, the factory paint is two-stage...in other words, there is clear on every color.

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#3094 of 4251 Time to settle the Clearcoat dispute by mnkyboy Mar 18, 2002 (05:48 pm)
I emailed Mazda USA today and the answer is plain and simple. The Vivid Yellow Protege 5 DOES have a clearcoat. IMAZ, I suggest you take a ride to your nearest dealer, and find out why your paint is coming off!? Here is the email I recieved and sent...

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:38 -0800
To: "XXX XXXXX"
Subject: Re: Your E-mail to MyMazda.com (KMM53678V90XXXXXXX)
From: "MM"
Reply-to: MM

Dear XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

You've inquired if your 2002 Mazda Protegé5 in Vivid Yellow has a
clearcoat. I have verified with our Product Support Engineers that the
Vivid Yellow paint on the Protegé5 does, in fact, have a clearcoat.

I hope this information is helpful.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.

Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our
e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online
survey.

Regards,

Lisa Lasky
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

"Want a bit of Miata-like sportiness in something that can handle
home-improvement-center runs, a stroller, or a few golf bags? Consider
the Protegé5." - Motor Trend

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
Year: 2002
Model: Protegé5
Message Body: I have a Vivid Yellow Protege 5, and I have been told
that the paint DOES NOT have a clearcoat on it. Is it true that the Red
and Vivid Yellow Protege 5 has no clearcoat? If it doesn’t have a clearcoat, why not? Can you please verify this information. Thank you.

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sharonf by coznefx Mar 18, 2002 (08:38 pm)
I'm begining to feel like I'm invisible :-(...

Yes, I checked with the dealer, and red does have clear, as does every other color. Anyone who owns a red P5 (as I do) need only take a look in the engine compartment or behind the hatch to see what the paint looks like without any clear on it.

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#3100 of 4251 Red and Clearcoat - Sport Shift Auto by phoenixmp5 Mar 19, 2002 (09:00 am)
I had to double check before posting but my Red P5 definitely shed some clearcoat when the bumper was scraped with a cardboard box :-( Fortunately, it waxed up real nice. :-)

jstandefer · May 2002

I used to sell Mazda's and was the Inventory and Lot Manager in charge of the delivery detail shop. I am not sure about Vivid Yellow, but I would be surprised if didn't have a clear coat. However, Classic Red DOES NOT have a clear coat on it. I know this as a fact, not as an opinion. If you like, I can send you many red polishing and buffing pads from my own car and from the dealership. When using polishing or buffing pastes and compounds, the red paint comes right off. If there was a clear coat, this wouldn't be happening. A pure red such as Classic Red is not possible with a clear coat since a clear coat actually has just a hint of yellow in it. Hence, those orange-red paints you see from other manufacturers.

Information from the dealer is, unfortunately, not very reliable. Especially from the sales and service staff. I have looked inside my engine compartment and trunk... I clean that paint all the time. It's just as shiny and red as the paint on the outside. Millenium Red is a different story. That does have a clear coat.

-Jerry

toyotated · May 2002

I've got 3,500 miles on my car. That's a lot in just two months, but about 2,000 of the miles have been the result of two long road trips. On my latest journey through the California desert (600 miles), my P5 got 29 mpg going out and 32 mpg coming back. That's not bad. Now if I could only get that gas mileage driving around town! That would be awesome.

Go Wings Go!

fgaydos · May 2002

Thanks for the info.
Frank

mnkyboy · May 2002

You state "Information from the dealer is, unfortunately, not very reliable" Can you presume that your information is unreliable? I am the one who contacted Mazda USA directly, and they said there is indeed a clearcoat on the Vivid Yellow. Im not sure about the Red, but they also said that all cars have a clearcoat. This may not be the case for older Mazdas, but im sure new technology has allowed a clearcoat to actually be clear, and not give a yellow tint.

BTW, when did you sell Mazdas? What year(s)? Im not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to get the facts straight

I hope Mazda USA isnt lying to me...

shrique · May 2002

I bought my car 11/2001 and I just got my welcome package. Did anyone else get the "Winter 2001" magazine that came with it? Oh and never got my touchup paint either. I'm emailing!!!!

dwryter · May 2002

Same story here: got the package sans paint, emailed a 'Hey!', little bottle's now on its way. Perhaps Mazda stopped sending the paint to save money, figuring they'd do so later only for those who learn of the previous policy. My thanks to those who told us about it here. I don't suppose they're doing the same with decent stereos? 8^]

jstandefer · May 2002

Information from MNAO is generally pretty reliable. Dealership sales and service staff, whom are not MNAO employees, can be unreliable. Heck. Ask most Mazda sales people what engine a Protege5 has. Most of them have to look it up.

I sold Mazda's from 1999-2000 and was the Lot and Inventory Manager from 2000-2001. I never said Vivid Yellow did not have a clear coat. I actually said I would surprised if it didn't. I'm talking about Classic Red. It leaves your towels, chamois, pads, and applicators red after you use them. This is a reason why you see heavily oxidized red Miata's, MX-6's, Protege's, MX-3's, etc.

I did some research on the web. It seems I may have to bite my tongue, but I am not sure...

I could only find information on the Miata. It seems in mid-1999, Mazda began using a clear coat over the Classic Red and other non-metallic colors. Before this, all Miata's with non-metallic colors did not have a clear coat. I know for a fact that the 1999-2000 Protege sedans did not have a clear coat over the Classic Red, which was the only non-metallic color available. In 2001, Classic Red was discontinued on the Protege line, replaced my Millenium Red. The Classic Red was reintroduced for the 2002 Protege5. This may have a clear coat.

The best way to tell is to look at your towel or chamois after you are finished drying the car. If there is red residue on it, then your car is not clear coated. We've had this discussion many times in the sedan board. But, for the sedans, Classic Red did not have a clear coat.

I also found some interesting information regarding clear coats and why Mazda didn't use them on non-metallic colors. The color coat underneath the clear coat stills fades from the sun over time. Because the clear coat is over the color coat, you cannot restore the color.

If the Protege5 Classic Red does indeed have a clear coat, which sounds like it probably does, I digress...

sharonf · May 2002

Well...i'll soon be washing my car for the 1st time...so I'll let ya know what happens on the towels/chamois.

coznefx · June 2002

well, regardless of the quality of info I've received from the dealer regarding the clearcoat issue, I can tell you from my own observation and experience as an owner of a Red P5 this car has clear on it. As I said in an earlier post (courtesy of sharonf) you need only look under the hood and hatch to see the difference between paint that has clear and paint that doesn't.

wishnhigh1 · June 2002

if some more powerful engines are going to be available soon for this car?

jstandefer · June 2002

There are rumors that there will be a turbo version shortly after the turbocharged Mazdaspeed Protege sedan is introduced. The rumor is that it will be all-wheel drive. I don't know how true that rumor is...

Otherwise, I highly doubt a more powerful engine will be available. The Protege and Protege5 will be redesigned for the 2004 model year. It will move to a totally new platform shared with the redesigned 2004 Ford Focus. The engines will be a 2.0L DOHC I4 and a 160hp 2.3L DOHC I4 with Sequential Valve Timing (S-VT) and 152 lb-ft of torque. See the pic of the new engine here. Mazda has an excellent overview of the new 2.3L engine on their website (go to Vehicles... Future Models... Mazda 6 More information...).

markregel · June 2002

The specifications of the P5 looks like a rebadged Focus to me (like other Ford-Mazda products). Does anyone know if this is the case? Considering how closely the specs match, I would be suprized if this car does not share the engine and most other major components with the Focus.

ggilliom · June 2002

Thanks for your replies, and for the rehash of a discussion covered earlier. Just a friendly reminder -- not everyone in this forum is a longtime member, and because you can't search messages, it's only natural that some topics will come up repeatedly. Hope that's OK.

jstandefer -- thanks for the details about dealing with oxydized (sp?) red paint. That's exactly what's happened to my car. Only on the trunk, roof, and hood -- the sides seem to be doing OK. Your photos look great, and I'm going to give it a try.

Does anyone know if the chalking would be as evident for the white P5?

I wish I could ask my dealer to settle the clearcoat issue, but I've yet to meet a Mazda dealer (here in Columbus, OH) who knows more than I do after reading Edmunds for an hour. It's AMAZING to me how relatively little these guys know about their product. Recently, I noticed they had a 2002 refresh sitting beside a pre-refresh model. I asked about the tweeters added to the refresh, and the guy confidently said, "no, that's not standard -- it's a special kit."

I'm convinced that when they don't know, they just make stuff up. I'll ask about the red/clearcoat, but should I trust them?

Does anyone know if the clearcoat is indicated on the sticker?

sharonf · June 2002

Hey....sorry if I came across wrong when I said..'here we go again". I was partially involved in the back and forth on the issue during that previous discussion...and was just trying to bring the answer to you without the same debating again. From what it seems though....there's still not a definitive answer!

I totally agree with you about the lack of product knowledge by the dealers...at least speaking of those in my area. This was one of the reasons I chose to go through CarsDirect when I bought my P5...I didn't need the dealer cuz I knew more than them! It kinda made me lose all faith in them.

Personally it seems to me you might be better off asking mazda headquarters about the paint than the dealer...but I dunno. I can't even seem to get registered on the my mazda site for some reason!
Good luck!
Sharon

the_big_h · June 2002

the THIRD GENERATION Mazda Protege (and Protege5) IS NOT A REBADGED FORD FOCUS. They DO NOT share ANY mechanical components with each other. What specification exactly made you even consider that the Protege and Focus are rebadged twins???????

protege_fan · June 2002

Hank (the_big_h) is right. The Protege sedans and Protege 5's are (approx) 98% Japanese content and 100% made in Japan (sedans at the Hiroshima plant and P5's at the Hofu plant).

silver_bullet · June 2002

The June 3 issue has an AutoFile report on the P5. AutoWeek likes the P5, so this is a pretty positive article. The only major dislikes reported by owners were: Engine rattles when cold; Needs more power; and Gearing too short for freeway.

timmy2k2 · June 2002

Hi, everyone, this is my first time writing- I just bought a red P5 last month. It has been great! I got a package in the mail from Mazda, but the darn thing was open and the contents gone! I wrote to the website and asked them about it, but it's been a week and I haven't heard from them. Form what i've read it sounds like this was some sort of welcome kit, with paint in it? Anyone have an idea what was in it?

sharonf · June 2002

I bought my P5 on 05/03 and just got my welcome kit yesterday. It had a "zoom-zoom magazine", a brochure on P5 accessories, and a bottle of touch-up paint. There was alos a survey regarding your thoughts on the welcome package.
Sharon

ggilliom · June 2002

sharonf,

Thanks for the reply. Re: car dealers -- they don't have that many unique products to sell...you'd think they'd know them inside and out. Access to the Internet makes every shopper smarter...yet they seem so unprepared (even defensive) when you ask them even simple questions. I've visited about six different brand dealerships in the last month, and each and every salesperson I've encountered has seemed only vaguely interested in answering my questions, and frequently dishonest when pressed for details.

Anyway...I'm curious about your CarsDirect experience. Have you described it earlier on this message board? If not, can you provide any tips for a newbie? How far did you have to travel to get your car from the dealer who accepted your price?

Any and all details welcome!

Thanks again.

silver_bullet · June 2002

I'm not a car dealer, but you have to wonder if the internet has somehow contributed to a real decline in the quality of sales staff. With the ready access to pricing info, most consumers grind every last dollar out of a new car deal, so there can't be much money in it for a salesperson. Like any low paying job, turnover and general job dissatisfaction results, and consumers are left to deal with poorly trained and unmotivated sales personnel - any thoughts on this phenomenon? As you go up the food chain to the high end dealers, the staff is much better trained and is usually more professional as well - just a case of higher profits/higher salaries netting a higher caliber of salesperson?

sunbyrne · June 2002

I think you'd be surprised how few auto consumers are actually armed with significant information. I know people who routinely pay sticker because they can't be bothered to do a little research first. Maybe not that smart, but not uncommon.

And I have to say, I read everything I could find on the P5 before I actually went out and drove one, and the sales guy I actually bought from was the guy who didn't make any mistakes based on what I knew when he told me about the car, and even told me a few things I hadn't read.

So there are at least SOME good salespeople out there.

mustang87 · June 2002

my p5 sticker says it was made in hiroshima

mustang87 · June 2002

"I think you'd be surprised how few auto consumers are actually armed with significant information. I know people who routinely pay sticker because they can't be bothered to do a little research first"

I agree. While shopping for a corolla (sorry guys) for my mom at a large new dealership, i had seen people come in and the deals were closed in less than 15 minutes. A lot of people still pay what the salespeople tell them. And thats due to the fact that they are presented at the dealership with a fake vehicle invoice which is hundreds higher than the actuall prices. We were there for hours. I salute FORD for trying to open FORD owned dealerships but of course a lot of stealerships were against that. They knew nobody would go to them and listen to their or pay their BS prices.

protege_fan · June 2002

Ok....Dechipher your VIN using the following:

http://web2.iadfw.net/emann/protegefaq/models.html

I was under the impression that P5's were made only in Hofu, but maybe this has changed.

mazdafun · June 2002

And where are they planning to build them?

Likely, the 6 and 2004 Pro (or will they call it the "3"?) will be built in MI. Given the past and current history of US-built Mazdas, I'm going to give them both at least a year to shake out the bugs (witness the Tribute/Escape and the Truck/Ranger, and the Navajo/Explorer 2-dr...at least the 626 has been OK...still, the past few Escort/Tracer models have been "Fordified" versions of the 323/Protege, and they managed to make them less well-put-together). Bummer. I like Mazdas. I don't like Fords. And Mazda is just recovering too.

Well, I can hope for the best. The 6 looks like a nice vehicle (and at least it's mostly designed by Mazda, except for the V6 Duratec-derived engine, which is a Ford design). It deserves a chance. Still, I'd prefer one assembled in Japan. I guess the Ford/Mazda NA plants aren't as well managed as the GM/Toyota NA plants. Those seem to put out decent product.

ggilliom · June 2002

I own a '93 MX-6 (built in MI) and it's been a fantastic car. Other than some problems with the muffler/exhaust, which can be blamed largely on Ohio winters, it's been nearly problem free. Not bad for the first model year. 90,000 miles, and it's tight as a drum, all electrical works, and it's relatively quiet. (Ufortunately, the backseat is just too small for two kids car seats!)

Hopefully, the new 6s will be equally sound. I have every reason to think they will be, but only time will tell. I do know that the Hondas built in nearby Marysville, Ohio, are quality vehicles.

Re, car dealers -- I think the manufacturers need to create some kind of incentive for the dealers that allow their people to make better money on the thinner margin sales. It's fairly well known in the industry that if a person has a good experience with their first, entry-level car, they'll be very loyal to the brand and buy the more expensive (and more profitable) higher-end models.

But despite my terrific experience with my MX-6, I'm so unimpressed with the Mazda dealer nearby (poor product knowledge, pushiness, lots of attitude)that I'm about ready to give up on Mazda and simply take advantage of one of the incredible lease offers Honda is offering on the remaining 2002 Accords.

mazdafun · June 2002

Where are you at? The Mazda dealers around my part of OH (Jake Sweeney, Jeff Wyler and Kings) are fair to good, depending on the salesperson. On the other hand, the Honda and Toyota dealerships are mixed. I had bad experiences at the Performance ones on Rt 4, especially at the Honda dealership, where they wanted to hold onto my driver's license for a test drive (now, does that make any sense?). They had plenty of attitude too.

vocus · June 2002

The reason they hold onto your driver's license is to make sure you return their car to them.

protege_fan · June 2002

They can't take your driver's license and keep it. It is illegal for anybody to operate a motor vehicle without a proper license WITH them.

What the dealership should do is make a photocopy of your license.

dsm6 · June 2002

Maybe they're thinking you will test drive their car more sanely if you are without your license. ;-)

mazdafun · June 2002

After I refused to leave my license and started leaving. Still, I felt covered by sleaze during the whole experience (the showroom felt like one of those sales "boiler rooms", if you know what I mean...fast-talk, lots of nudges to make a decision etc.). I much prefer the low-key approach that's gaining ground today, probably thanks in great part to Saturn's sales model.

amonte · June 2002

Just purchased a NEW PR5 (black) w/ leather, auto stick trans, ABS and moonroof. still waiting on delivery, but I'm starting to get psyched...

I was wondering if anyone else got the auto stick, and if so:

1) does using the auto-stick as opposed to the regular "D" setting improve performance?

2) When you come to a stop, does the auto-stick automatically switch back to 1st gear?

3) Any tips for using the auto-stick? Does it have any "funny" behaviors I should no about?

4) Generally around what RPM should you shift? What RPM should you be around for regular driving?

sorry for the lame questions, but I'm used to letting the auto trans do all the work for me.

Thanks.

audia8q · June 2002

your post is very accurate...all of my best salespeople want nothing to do with "new" car sales. Unless it's highline...Otherwise they only work with used car sales. The low profit "new" car sales are left to the greenpeas (new salespeople). you get what you pay for..hahah

Rich

ggilliom · June 2002

Mazdafun -- I'm in Columbus, where we have two dealers. One is Ricart, the GIANT dealer I've heard terrible things about, and the other is Byers Imports, which has a great service department, but a sales staff that acts like couldn't care less about my needs. If you're within 60 miles of Columbus, I'd love to know where these other dealers are.

Amonte -- I test drove the autostick, and I think I recall it does shift down into 1st after a stop, but I think they assume you'll take care of it. Unlike the manual, the autostick is four speed, so I revved it fairly high to experience any significant performance difference. Sorry for the lame answers -- I only drove it for about 10 minutes. Anyone else have opinions?

I STILL haven't seen a photo of the MP5 leather interior, and we still don't have any locally. If you're able to post (or e-mail) a few pics of your new interior, I (and others) would love to see them!

ggilliom · June 2002

I noticed only two things I didn't like when I test drove the MP5. Would love any feedback out there.

1. (and this is minor) I found the car key difficult to unlock/release when I was done driving. It tooks a lot of pushing and wiggling. Has anyone else noticed this?

2. I have a Miata, and the shift throws are really short and tight -- very nice. The shifter and throws seem much longer in the MP5, and a bit "less connected" feeling from the transmission. Has this gotten tiresome for any of you drivers, or do you get used to it? And do you know if it's possible (and not too expensive) to have a shorter shifter put in?

amonte · June 2002

"I test drove the autostick, and I think I recall it does shift down into 1st after a stop, but I think they assume you'll take care of it. Unlike the manual, the autostick is four speed, so I revved it fairly high to experience any significant performance difference. Sorry for the lame answers -- I only drove it for about 10 minutes. Anyone else have opinions? "

No problem - thanks for responding...I'll find out soon enough, I suppose...

"I STILL haven't seen a photo of the MP5 leather interior, and we still don't have any locally. If you're able to post (or e-mail) a few pics of your new interior, I (and others) would love to see them! "

The leather in these cars (in my opinion) is nice for the money. The invoice on this option is $392, which seems pretty reasonable. Keep in mind that the leather seats aren't ALL LEATHER - the seating surfaces are, but the sides are vinyl. It's not very noticeable though. All in all, they fit very well with the rest of the interior of the car. When I get it, I'll try to take some pics and post them.

reitrof · June 2002

There is a B&M shifter for the P5. I bought one but have not put it in yet. Cost is about $135.

protege_fan · June 2002

$135 CDN or $135 USD?? I got a quote of $209 CDN for the B&M shifter!!

amonte · June 2002

"I test drove the autostick, and I think I recall it does shift down into 1st after a stop, but I think they assume you'll take care of it. Unlike the manual, the autostick is four speed, so I revved it fairly high to experience any significant performance difference. Sorry for the lame answers -- I only drove it for about 10 minutes. Anyone else have opinions? "

No problem - thanks for responding...I'll find out soon enough, I suppose...

"I STILL haven't seen a photo of the MP5 leather interior, and we still don't have any locally. If you're able to post (or e-mail) a few pics of your new interior, I (and others) would love to see them! "

The leather in these cars (in my opinion) is nice for the money. The invoice on this option is $392, which seems pretty reasonable. Keep in mind that the leather seats aren't ALL LEATHER - the seating surfaces are, but the sides are vinyl. It's not very noticeable though. All in all, they fit very well with the rest of the interior of the car. When I get it, I'll try to take some pics and post them.

newcar31 · June 2002

The reason why the MP5 has a "less connected" feeling in the shifter is because it isn't directly connected. The gears changes are handled by a linkage to the transmission. With your Miata, the shifter pretty much comes right out of the transmission and into the passenger cabin-directly. This is why you will never get the super-direct shifter feel with a FWD car.

mazdafun · June 2002

Kings Mazda (exit 19? on I-71) is the closest one in my area to Columbus. They are an "S-plan" dealer, and are pretty low-key. Service department looks clean and well-run, but I haven't had any service done by them. I just did a visual inspection when querying their service manager about some work.

Jake Sweeney is about 7 miles away from Kings. They have a good sales staff. Rich Kennedy was my salesperson there. They also are an "S-plan" dealer.

This is a ways from Columbus, but it's been done before (purchased from Kings, I believe).

crikey · June 2002

I posted similar questions a while back but it seems that the tranny is quite new and not a lot of folks have had much experience with it. You might be the only one who can answer my question, once you've played around with your new ride:

Does the manumatic transmission, in sport mode/manual mode, allow the engine to go between 6000 and 6300 RPM (6300 is the redline) before the computer intervenes and shifts for the driver?

You might have to floor it to get around 6000 to 6300 RPM, that is, if the tranny allows it. Since your ride is NEW, please don't try it until you have properly broken in your vehicle, i.e. stay below 4000 RPMs for at least the first 1000 miles.

ggilliom · June 2002

I'll look forward to any pics you can provide. Thanks!

And BTW, I do think the autostick is a cool feature that makes the auto much more interesting. And that gated shifter looks very cool. My commute is largely city driving...I'm having trouble deciding which transmission to go with.

reitrof -- how difficult is it to switch out the shifter? Having it done, or doing it yourself? I hope you'll describe your results here when you're done!

ggilliom · June 2002

Do you know if the B&M will void any part of the warranty?

protege_fan · June 2002

Unless the mod can be proven to cause fault in something, then it will not void your warranty.

sharonf · June 2002

I wrote a long post last night in response to your questions about carsdirect but for some reason it's not posted. Anyways...I was very pleased with my carsdirect rep and he seemed to be more knowledgeable about eta's etc...I put in my order in march...before the re-fresh P5's that I wanted had come out. His estimated time of arrival was much more accurate than the local dealers. The dealer I picked up with was about 20-40 minutes away(depending on traffic). Price was exactly what they had on their website...except that I had to pay a lil extra to have the wind deflector put on.
After the $750 rebate I ended up paying somewhere around 300-500 below invoice...which I felt was fine...especially to not have to deal with the idiot annoying sales people I encountered!! I took the stress-free route!
Let me know if there's any other ?'s I can answer about it
Sharon

reitrof · June 2002

Sorry, 135 US.

Mazda Protege5

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