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Mazda Protege5
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Comments
I test drove a Vibe on Saturday and loved it; it felt more solid than the P5, was more quiet, had more room, and just "felt" safer. But for the options I want, the Vibe is about $17,000 after discounts. The P5 with the same options, more or less, is about $14,000. Is the Vibe really worth $3000 more? Any input would be helpful, as I've narrowed it down to these two (I went to test drive a brand new 2003 Focus Wagon this weekend, but the car wouldn't start! Ford quality...)
$4k Off?! -- you're making me feel jealous. That's a great price. I bought the P5 over the Vibe to save less than $2000 and also because I fell in love with the handling. The P5 is very solid, especially new ones (I got a 2002.5 which seemed to have the kinks worked out). It handles incredibly well, with good visibility and great looks. The Vibe is also very solid and slight more useful. It rides a lot higher -- kind of like a mini-SUV, and if that is important to you, get the Vibe. I think the Vibe would be more useful if you have kids, or don't like sitting a bit lower in the car. The Vibe roof rack is pretty useless, though.
For $15k, I'd probably get a Vibe. But for $14K, if Vibes are more than $16k, the Vibe is not that much better. Vibe option packages are a bit different. The P5 comes pretty loaded, and I got a sunroof, ABS, and side bags. Those options are pretty cheap on the p5 -- but on the vibe you have to pay for the power package, alloy wheels, and other standard things on the p5. Gas mileage will be slightly better in the Vibe, especially for automatics. I wouldn't have bought a p5 automatic anyway. I usually get 28-29mpg mixed in my 5 spd - with 34mpg max and 25mpg worst.
Now, I'm 2nd guessing the autostick. I don't know how to drive a 5spd, but I think I want one. The clutch seemed to be in a uncomfortable position for me. Felt like the clutch was right under the steering wheel. I test drove the Autostick & was pleased. Especially since this is a step down hp wise from my 02 V6 Accord that was totalled in a head on collision on 4/7/03. Any advice on my 5spd vs. autostick dilemma? Also, I have a at times achy left knee, so I considering that also. Sorry for the novel, just a little anxious & don't want to regret my decision. Any advice given will be greatly appreciated.
Chuck
Problem #2: This is a tricky one. The 5-speed will definitely get you more performance and less maintenance for your money. The downside is learning to drive one. I think pretty much anyone with a glimmer of coordination can handle it. Learning on a P5 should be relatively easy. I learned on a 1987 Suzuki Samarai which had a tendency for the clutch pedal effort to sharply increase at the friction point. The questions I would ask myself are, do I routinely get stuck in heavy traffic jams (i.e. do you live in Atlanta?), and how much is a little extra performance worth to me? My wife decided after I taught her to drive the standard shift, that she really could do without the extra performance for the convenience of the auto, so we had to get rid of our 2001 Protege ES 5-speed and get a 2003 Protege5 Auto. Also, sit in other vehicles with clutches and compare to the P5. I think the Protege & 5 have a very nice seating position and pedal placement, but that can vary a lot depending on your proportions.
P5: $14,000-14,500
Vibe: $16,000-16,500
Matrix: $17,000
I've test driven them all now, and like them all, but for different reasons. I'd say the ONLY sticking point right now is, the P5 has less cargo space than the other two. But is it worth the $2,000-3,000 extra? Maybe not. But I still have that goal of sleeping by the beach on a few warm summer nights in the cargo area! :-D
They said they'll put me in a car until they find one with everything I want: Sunlight Silver, ABS, sunroof & deflector, 6Disc in dash, Auto, & no roof rack. This is good, because State Farm is only giving me the rental until Wednesday. I'm thinking of taking a 5spd if they drop the price some more, but again I don't know. Decisions, decisions.
Chuck
The next step up from that would be adding an amp with speaker level inputs or replacing the head unit with an aftermarket one. If you replace the head unit, I suggest getting the filler panel with the cubby hole from a used parts store or a junk yard since Mazda sells that piece of plastic for about $90.
Hurler, on the Vibe's utility: yeah, the Vibe is more versatile and has more cargo room. If you plan to keep it for a while and may need the cargo room down the road, or carry bikes, kayaks, etc., the vibe is better. For my many bikes, I'll use a roof rack and maybe hitch rack. But keep in mind you can remove the rear seat bottoms entirely in the P5 and create a little more room that way. If you get the vibe, you'll need the carpet as things will slide easily on the hard plastic. I want both cars!
Tell them you did the research, and you know what these cars are going for. You are willing to buy today if they can match the deals of other dealers. If you can get somewhere halfway between $2000 off and $4000 off, you are doing very well. Shoot for $3000 off by starting the negotiating at $4000 of MSRP! Let us know how you do.
Chuck
Even if not, since you haven't paid any money, I would not have a problem saying the deal's off anyway. What can they do? They can't force you to take the car and can't claim much injury since they'll sell it to someone else. And they probably won't bother suing you -- the damages, a few hundred $ if that for a lost sale, is not worth the court fees. What does the paperwork say? Although I'm a lawyer, and am NOT giving legal advice!!, I still don't know how much of a recourse they have against you. And besides, you can always claim the salesman talked you into the contract when you weren't ready -- name me a salesman who hasn't done that. My guy, for example, talked me into getting it a little sooner than I wanted to, but I talked myself into it as well.
If you still want the car, tell them straight up that you don't believe they've given you all the discounts you are entitled to or that other dealers are offering. Tell them you'd like to continue doing business with them now and in the future, but only if they are willing to be as good as other dealers. If they won't, then you unfortunately have to go somewhere else.
Do your homework and find out what prices are. This board and other protege discussion groups on the internet will be the best barometer. Try the regular protege topics for "Mazda Protege Owners: What did you pay?". I did a search for "mazda Protege discussion groups" or "mazda protege forums" on Google and found a few.
Thanks for advice & help...
Chuck...
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Anyhoo, the P5 is such a blast to drive. My wife is nice enough to let me have a turn at the wheel every now and then, and I'm always impressed by how much better it handles than my '99 Pro.
I am about to buy a 2003 MP5 next week and came across this discussion group while conducting research. I was wondering if anyone knows what the current rate off invoice one can expect in Vancouver, BC these days or can lead me to Canadian site that will.
Thanks and I look forward to joining the club!
Does the system work well? Do you recommend it? Thanks.
Protege5 Driver and Lover - 1 year, 3 months and counting
How many miles have the tires lasted on average? I have about 26,000 on them. The dealer said they should last about 30,000. The tread still looks good, and they are still pretty quiet and relatively smooth riding. In fact, they seem smoother now (although this could be due to my new infatuation with the car now that the clutch is fixed). I have rotated them every 5K.
thanks and I'm glad its back to new.
P.S. Has anybody with a 2002.5 or newer experienced cluch chatter? What do I listen for?
http://web2.airmail.net/emann/protegefaq/tsb/
It is MT000003848 - CLUTCH CHATTER DURING COLD TAKEOFF
Basically, when trying to shift into 1st the car would start shaking like it was in a bind. It was also grabbing when letting out the clutch in other gears. I had to take someone out in my car and drive around until it did it. I had it in three times before, and they couldn't duplicate the problem.
Bruno
Geez, those are beefy support plates on the lower arms. No wonder the P5 is so flat through lateral transitions.
On the down side, those plates really obstruct access to the oil filter. I couldn't get enough leverage to loosen it (they seem to put them on very tightly at the factory; the first oil change I did on my Protege was also difficult), so I just added fresh oil for now. I'll let the dealer "deal" with the overtightened filter.
pciskowski noted it took him 3 times to get his dealer to fix it, but I don't really have that kind of time as the dealer is a 1.5 hour drive away. I suppose I could use someone closer, but these guys have been great so far so I'd like to take there to fix it. But I need to be sure they will do it and have parts becuase this needs to be a one day thing.
I'm calling this morning, with TSB in hand, just in case.
3 of my 4 tires have no tread left on the center band. They are also noticeably louder then in the past. I will replace them next spring, probably with 255/45-16 Kumho ECSTA Supra 712's.
Anyone fit this size yet? A bit wider... same rim.
I think he wanted to call Mazda or something. He's concerned if they do the repair and send the parts to Mazda that they might not cover it if they haven't duplicated the problem.
So we'll see. I told him I understood, but would have to switch dealers due to drive time if he wouldn't just agree to order the parts and fix it.
So we'll see what I hear.
I guess I'm just going to use closer dealership. It's only 30 minutes away. Still a pain in the rear. I understand why they would do it that way, just doesn't make it any easier to get it fixed.
Off to call dealer #2.
Bruno
I meant 225/45-16 which, according to www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html is only 1.2% off from the current 195/50-16 Dunlops.
The service advisor asked if I was sure he would be able to detect it. I think so, as it has become more regular, but how can I be sure. So we'll be driving together and see what happens.
I wish I was close to a dealer that had already seen the problem. I would think they would be more capable of easily feeling the problem and agreeing to fix the car.
Hopefully it will be as bad as Saturday morning. I'm not really in the mood for a long process.
Funny thing about this is that my wife drove the car for most of it's initial life and when I asked if she ever noticed it she said yes, but that she thought it was just her driving and never bothered to tell me.
Thanks.
I can't see as how a 1/4" will hurt anything. I'm sure i read of people doing this on "another" forum, but thier search is down right now.
I'll post more when I find out.
Lot's of choices in that size btw. $75 a piece for the Kumhos I like in that size.
It drives like a dream now. Maybe after we all get them fixed they will do a recall.
tire,speedometer,actual speed
205/45,60,59
205/50,60,61
205/55,60,63
205/60,60,65