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Mazda Protege5

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Comments

  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    I did find this one HU which seems like a possibility:

    http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-ymvDyBpHvBm/ProdView.asp?a=1- &s=0&cc=01&g=300&id=detailed_info&i=023BPV660

    Blaupunkt isn't necessarily my favorite brand, but it seems to match all of my criteria. I'll keep looking.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    They have ones that have a front AUX input and some that have the ability to play MP3-encoded CD-Rs in addition or in place of the front AUX input. I wanted the SX-980, but it was sold out, so I got an SX-780. The SX-990 replaced the SX-980, I think as it looks like it and plays MP3 discs and has a front AUX input. Despite what Crutchfield said, it fit in my '99LX, though I didn't use their factory cable adapter, though that would've been much easier than what I did (used some crimp-on connectors to fit the JVC connector in place of the factory one...no going back now). I use my iPod with it on long road trips (3+ hours), and it's a blast.
  • tetonmantetonman Member Posts: 73
    Must be highway driving? ;)

    Too early to say if the long term consequences of such heavy miles impact the performance of the p5. While the Protege model as a whole does well over time, you still need to look at the options and condition of the car versus the accords you mention.

    Just an idea, but with 0% financing and the rebates on the p5, can you swing a deal on one with no major option packages? Here in Chicago, we're seeing well optioned p5s going for $13,000 at Wilkins and others. Dealers should start negotiating a bit more on p5s with the 'new' Mazda3 and Mazda6 hatch coming out soon.

    95k is a ton of miles for this new a car... Is the accord 4 or 6 cyl? Are the options comparable?

    Tough to really help on this without knowing more about the cars.

    Good luck,

    Tetonman
  • mudflatmudflat Member Posts: 47
    1. Tweeters may be wired in parallel with other speakers, but this doesn't mean the audio power is divided equally between them. A crossover network is commonly used to divide the frequency spectrum so as to keep the lows out of the tweeters and the highs out of the door speakers. This automatically distributes the power between them. In any event, the natural spectral content of music is such that very little power is concentrated at the high end. (As an aside, amps try to put out more power into lower impedance loads. So until things blow or the sound gets unbearably distorted, the more speakers connected in parallel, the higher the power output.)
    .
    3. Human hearing is not linear. It takes 10X the power output you started with to create the perception of twice the loudness. (So much for small power increases causing the dramatic results often attributed to them.)
    .
    4. Higher sensitivity speakers will increase loudness because they're more efficient at converting electrical energy into sound. The higher the SPL rating, the better.
    .
    5. One of the biggest reasons for so-so sound reproduction in vehicles is poor speaker baffling.
    .
    6. The above information is deliberately simplified, but adequate for casual discussion.
  • screeliscreeli Member Posts: 12
    both accords were 4cyl 2.2L, fully loaded and in good condition for their age, but it was the question of time over mileage that i was really lookong for

    my situation is that i feel stuck and cant decide on wether to spend $5k on a car, and be comfortable with not having to get a loan, or $10-12k on a car, and definitely get the p5, but with payemnt for 36 months or more
    i havent looked into the 0% finance, but i doubt i could afford a new car or even qualify for the 0%

    the comparison was theoretical, i only used an accord as an examlpe because i know i can get one with 100k miles and it still be reliable...can i do the same with a p5?

    i was under the impression that highway miles were alot easier on a car, and the fact that it is not even 2 years old...but i guess you are saying that if im gonna spend that kind of money, why not look into a low option, but low mileage p5 or even a 03' p5

    does the p5 use the same engine as the sedan protege?
    do you think the p5 will hold its value better than the sedan?

    thanks for the input
    screeli
  • tominsdtominsd Member Posts: 18
    I will probably order the speakers soon along with a few other things for the car. I have no argument with mudflat's comments, although he implies that the speaker upgrade may not help much (no improvement in baffling). But the Kenwood's are highly efficient, I believe, and that should help. I like the idea of them being pre-wired. I will let you know after they are installed.
  • mudflatmudflat Member Posts: 47
    The Kenwoods are certainly better than the OEMs and I'm sure have attributes that'll contribute to your listening pleasure, which is what it's all about.
    .
    My comments were intended to provide food for thought concerning balanced frequency response and low distortion and not to put any kind of a damper on anything.
    .
    For instance, I like jazz and know what brushed cymbals and a plucked bass sound like. It takes a good system to keep the bass from having a "one note" quality, the highs from sounding like breaking glass, and the squeek of a performer's fingers on guitar strings from sounding like somebody playing with a balloon. With some other types of music, well....
    .
    The important thing is that the sound pleases your ears.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Thanks for the info. I certainly appreciate your input into the car audio discussion. I would like to add a few things in response to your post:

    1. I have a wiring diagram for the Miata stereo. The folks at Mazda assure me that the Protege5 is wired the same way, just with 2 extra speakers. It shows no crossover. That doesn't mean there isn't one, but it does not show up on the diagram. I have posted it on the web. The diagram apparently is not copyrighted as far as I can tell. If Mazda wants me to remove it, please let me know. Here is the link:

    http://homepage.mac.com/tboggs/.cv/tboggs/Public/Miata%20Stereo.j- pg-link.jpg

    2. You didn't seem to have a 2. ;-)

    3. I agree. Most of the performance improvements come from better speakers. Although reducing THD in the Head Unit can make a system more tolerable at higher volumes. The main reason I am considering aftermarket Head Units is better Sound Quality and added features like MP3 playback and/or auxiliary inputs.
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    UPS brought my tires last night, so if all goes well Costco will be installing them after work today.
  • tetonmantetonman Member Posts: 73
    I don't think there's enough data in US, although this model (P5) has been sold in Japan for many years (since 1994 I think I read).

    I've driven Mazda proteges since 1991 and found them to be very reliable through 150,000 miles if you follow the maintenance schedule.

    If, and its a big if... you know that the seller has changed the oil at the 3-5,000 mile points consistently and performed additional maintenance and NOT just driven the heck out of the car, then the P5 sounds like a good deal.

    I would go for a newer car with higher miles if maintained than an older car with same miles if maintained only because the newer car has gone through less winters. (That's important up here in Chicago area.) BUT, I would have a good mechanic look at the brakes (front and back), inspect the wearable parts of the engine and transmission, and then I would take the car out and push it on the highway to see if it's acceleration is up to your impressions. I would then drive a brand new one and see how the used compares under similar driving conditions.

    Good luck.

    Tetonman
  • dwryterdwryter Member Posts: 87
    Three questions about changing front speakers:

    1. How difficult is it to remove and replace the door panels to get to the speakers?

    2. Have you experienced more squeeks and rattles from the doors after removing/replacing the panels?

    3. If I do this, should I get some extra doorclips in advance to replace any that might break?

    I'd like to upgrade the speakers, but not if doing so it likely to increase the number of rattles.

    Thanks!
  • aguilaniaguilani Member Posts: 1
    I don't know if anyone reading this can help me or not... but I just wanted to post my story with my new Protege5 for all to read.
    2 months ago I purchased a Demo 2003 Protege5 (with 5,000 miles on it)from Brown's Alexandria Mazda (www.brownsmazda.com)(703-660-8400). When I first got the car I noticed that the brake pedal would vibrate when pressed. Thinking that the car is equipped with "anti-lock" braking I figured that this was normal. But the vibrations got worse; to the point that I took the car to the dealer to have it checked. PLUS I found out that my car does not have ABS. The Service rep at Brown's Mazda told me that the front rotors were warped and they will be replaced. The following day when I went to pickup my car, I noticed that the rotors were the original rotors and that they had been milled down (turned). I know that rotors can only be turned once in their lifetime, which means that in 40,000 miles or so, when the car needs brake work I WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR NEW ROTORS. I told the dealership's service rep that this was unacceptable and they refered me to Mazda (800-222-5500). I called Mazda and filed a complaint (Report # 886094) and they told me that the final decision would be up to the district manager of my area. Later I received a call from the dealership telling me that the decision was made to NOT REPLACE MY ROTORS!
    My wife and I own 3 Mazdas (2 Proteges and 1 miata) but based on this experience with Mazda and the dealership, I don't think I will ever buy a Mazda again (atleast not from Brown's Mazda or any other dealership in this 'DISTRICT')
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    The front doors are pretty easy to do. I did not replace any of the friction fittings (door clips), and I have had no additional squeaks or rattles from the doors. I will post some simple instrcutions for removing the panels when I get a chance.

    The rears are more difficult. I will also post some instructions for them.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Before you do anything electrical, always disconnect the negative battery terminal.

    1. Remove the window garnish (this is the little triangle at the front of the window/door margin.) It just pulls off, no tools should be necessary, but if you find it difficult, you can use a flat head screwdriver with electrical tape wrapped around the tip. Later models have Tweeters in this position and it is easier to get a firm grip on it.

    2. Remove the screws visible in the door handle.

    3. The door handle is actually 2 separate pieces. Looks closely and you will see the that the inner part is hard plastic. This does not come off. Remove the soft plastic outer portion by separating it from the rest of the handle. It should slide towards the front of the vehicle. Then disengage the tab in the rear portion of the handle.

    4. Remove screws inside the door handle you just disassembled.

    5. Remove screw visible in door opener. The pull on the door opener. It should come out and hang loose.

    6. Use a flat head screwdriver to open the plastic trim piece on screw positioned at upper forward vicinity of door trim, and then remove the screw.

    7. Remove fastener at upper rear of door. Do this by pulling out the center portion of the fastener, and then pull out the whole fastener.

    8. Pull on trim at lower front corner to disengage the friction fittings. I find that quick semi-hard pulls accomplish this best and generally prevents damage to the fittings. Do this along the edge of the trim until all 6 fittings have come loose.

    9. Pull the door trim upward until the top of the trim disengages from the door. Be careful not to pull the trim away from the door! There are still wire harnesses attached. Then push door opener through the its opening in the trim.

    10. Unplug the wire harnesses for the power windows and the door locks (driver side only). Generally this requires pushing on a clip in the harness and gently rocking the harness back and forth until it comes out.

    11. Now you can pull the trim away from the door. Reinstall in reverse order.

    Tips:
    1. Look at door after trim removal to see if any friction fittings were left behind. If so, these can be pried loose with the ever popular flat head screwdriver (wrapped with electrical tape) and reinstalled in the trim.

    2. Check to see if door lock came out of its track when you removed the trim. If so, then put it back before reinstalling the trim.

    3. Be sure to reuse the black plastic ring trim around the OEM speakers when installing the new ones. It should come off with without trouble using a flat head screwdriver. You can add some rubber cement to make sure it sticks well to the new speaker. This protects the speaker from moisture in the door. You can see some pictures of what I am referring to here:

    http://homepage.mac.com/tboggs/PhotoAlbum1.html

    I don't think I had to modify the watershield on the Mazda speakers, but I could be wrong. These are pictures from my 2001 ES, so your speakers will not look like this.

    4. Pull on door opener to get it back in the trim.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    My rear doors were a bit of a pain to work on compared to the fronts. They were not put together exactly like my service manual described. Here are the highlights:

    1. Disconnect negative battery terminal.

    2. Remove screw in visible in door handles.

    3. Use a tape wrapped flat head screwdriver to disengage the clip inside the front portion of the door handle. This is the part that really gave me problems. My 2003 door handle had a slot in the bottom to insert the screwdriver. The problem was, my clip was installed differently than the service manual described. What I ended up doing was inserting the screwdriver through the top of the handle opposite the slot on the bottom. With this method, I was able to disengage the clip. Once the clip has been disengaged, then the outer portion of the handle should slide forward, and then disengage the tab on the rear portion of the handle. My advice is to have a lot of patience. Hopefully yours will be easier than mine to remove.

    4. Remove screws inside the door handle you just disassembled.
     
    5. Remove screw visible in door opener. The pull on the door opener. It should come out and hang loose.
     
    6. Remove fasteners at upper front and rear of door. Do this by pulling out the center portion of the fastener, and then pull out the whole fastener.

    7. Pull on trim at lower front corner to disengage the friction fittings. I find that quick semi-hard pulls accomplish this best and generally prevents damage to the fittings. Do this along the edge of the trim until all 5 fittings have come loose.
     
    8. Pull the door trim upward until the top of the trim disengages from the door. Be careful not to pull the trim away from the door! There is still a wire harness attached. Then push door opener through the its opening in the trim.
     
    9. Unplug the wire harness for the power windows. Generally this requires pushing on a clip in the harness and gently rocking the harness back and forth until it comes out.
     
    10. Now you can pull the trim away from the door. Reinstall in reverse order.
     
    Tips:
     1. Look at door after trim removal to see if any friction fittings were left behind. If so, these can be pried loose with the ever popular flat head screwdriver (wrapped with electrical tape) and reinstalled in the trim.
     
    2. Check to see if door lock came out of its track when you removed the trim. If so, then put it back before reinstalling the trim.
     
    3. Pull on door opener to get it back in the trim.

    4. I could not find a way to reuse the watershield when I installed my new speakers, so I got some baffles to protect them from water.

    5. The speaker adapter bracket I got from Crutchfield was a bit of a pain. Their directions did not work for me. I had to screw the adapter bracket to the door loosely, then position the speedclips on it. Then I screwed on the speaker to the speedclips loosely. Once I had done that, I screwed the adapter bracket the rest of the way on. Finally, I finished screwing the speaker to the bracket speedclips a little at a time while alternating screws. It was a very tight fit.
  • dwryterdwryter Member Posts: 87
    Man, Boggse, what a nice thing to do! Thanks for the clear instructions and even pictures!
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Rotors warping is pretty common and unfortunately turning them might not solve the problem. They may start pulsing again in a few thousand miles. One of mine warped on my 02 P5 and I ordered replacement Brembo cross drilled rotors shipped to my house for about $130 (rotors are very easy to install). In all honesty, I'm surprised your dealer even turned them for you since rotors and pads are not normally covered by warranty. I think you were treated fairly.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Rotors and pads are covered under the 1/12k adjustment warranty IIRC. Generally, in the past, when I have had a rotor warp in the 1/12k period the dealer (not Mazda) replaced the whole rotor, but they certainly do not have to. Turning should be an acceptable solution. The work they did should be covered for an additional 1/12k, should you run into any problems.
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    So far so good. Size was increased to 205/50-16.

    Ride is definitely smoother with the taller sidewall. I no longer feel every single little crack in the road. That is certainly a good thing. Just riding I79 through Butler County will drive you nuts with all the bumps and grooves.

    Handling is no longer like I'm on rails. It's still good, but considering the Dunlops were getting to be racing slicks, there is no way I would expect full tread tires to match them for all out performance. I haven't really pushed them yet, but I'm sure I'll be more than happy when I do.

    Although not a great deal bigger, the tires seem to look big on the wheel. At first it kind of bothered me. It just looked out of place. But I've already grown used to it, and think they look just fine.

    So far I'm happy.
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    The dealer turned mine under warranty well after 1/12. Can't remember how long he said they were covered, but I had around 17,500 miles at the time.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Mine warped after 12k and the dealer wanted to charge me $100 to turn them. The after market Brembos made more sense in my case.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    If the dealer turned your rotors under warranty at 17,500, then count yourself lucky. According to the terms of the warranty, they shouldn't have.

    Brakes fall under the following headings in my warranty manual:

    Adjustments:
    Minor repairs not usually associated with replacement of parts. Covered for 12 months or 12,000 miles.

    What is not covered: Maintenance is at Owner's Expense
    Maintenance services such at worn brake linings, etc.

    Perhaps they warrant their rotors further, but it is not implicit in the manual. I personally would not expect my dealer to turn my rotors for free at 17,500 unless it happened right after a wheel rotation or something similar where they might have over torqued the lug nuts and caused the warping.
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    I never expected them to do it. I didn't even ask.

    He felt them pulsing during the clutch chatter test drive and asked if I wanted that fixed. I told him I wasn't ready to pay for it and he told me I wouldn't have to.

    I don't really remember how he stated it, but he said rotors were indeed covered.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    what are the reasons they get warped? Aren't they supposed to be very consistently built through out the manufacturing process? I heard that one shouldn't spray cold water into them after a ride. Many people who tend to do that while car wash.

    Bruno
  • cdnp5cdnp5 Member Posts: 163
    Just wanted to say that I achived a record breaking one tank on the weekend. The weather was amazing and the winds were calm (tail winds on the way home). For the 643.6km trip (400 miles) I achived 6.6 L/100 or 35.58 US Miles/Gallon. I will say that this was all back road driving where the cruise was set only at 100kph (60mph) and the sunroof was open.
  • acuintegraacuintegra Member Posts: 12
    Need help again... went shopping for a Pro5. I found one in black and one in midnight blue, either which is fine with me. The only difference, the black one, although is a 2003 was built was before Jan 2003 and the midnight blue one was built after and also 2003 and comes w/ the shock sensor alarm says the dealer. Also a difference, the mid blue one cost $19,303 while the black one cost $18,001. Dealer told me that Mazda raised prices on the ones build AFTER Jan 2003 resulting in the higher invoice price. Furthermore, he tells me that the ones built AFTER 2003 comes with a subwoofer while the ones built BEFORE Jan 2003 does NOT.

    The way I figure it, even if we figure in the cost of the alarm ($176), how the heck is there such a $1,100+ price difference between 2 cars and also doesn't everyone's Pro5 2003 come with a subwoofer?
  • loolalaloolala Member Posts: 19
    I posted one message about helping my friend got a P5 on "Mazda Protege Owners: What did you pay?"

    loolala "Mazda Protege Owners: What did you pay?" Jun 23, 2003 3:41am!make=Mazda&model=Protege5&ed_makeindex=.ef11a96

    We live near Oakland, CA, and they have tons of P5 in stock. We went on a Sunday afternoon and didn't see too many people shopping for cars. Anyway, we pay $16,500 out the door with better equiped car than the two you found! Hope this helps and good luck!
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Only the pads are subject to the adjustment warranty. The rotors and calipers are 36mo/50k (48/50).
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    Any P5 owners out there in the deep south? I'm looking at getting a P5 in the next few months, but I have read some comments about a weak AC system. I am supposed to move to Miami in 8 months and I don't to suffer from spontaneous human combustion due to inadequate AC.
  • acuintegraacuintegra Member Posts: 12
    The price the dealer is giving me for the P5 is $16,487 includ rebates but not tax. Opts are auto 4spd,leather, the sunroof pkg w/6cd, and the abs+side air, and sensor alarm. The roofrack unfort, is standard as he would say it.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    is adequate for Texas and tinted window will greatly help.

    Bruno
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Ditto to what Bruno wrote. Window tinting makes all the difference. In Miami, I can't imagine not having it, no matter the vehicle.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I've got black and it was 90 here yesterday, no problems. Nice and chilly.
  • golfboygolfboy Member Posts: 35
    Anybody here having problems with swirl marks? My black P5 seems to be very susceptible to these. They are very apparent in direct sunlight. Any products out there that people have tried to try and hide these swirl marks in their paint?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    My 2 cents: I've been able to remove swirl marks in black automotive paint with Meguiar's Swirl Remover.

    There may be other brands that work just as well... that others here can recommend. In addition to the feedback here, you may also want to see what they have to say in our
    Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair discussion. Good luck. ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Email me teamk2@earthlink.com and I'll give you a link to a great detailing website.
  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    The Mazda3 hatch began production today (albeit in euro-spec). Go to the Mazda3 forum to see the press release and pic. This also means that P5 production is over (the P5 factory is the one making the Mazda3 hatch, contrary to my earlier info).

    So for those who don't like the look of the Mazda3, you better get your P5 now.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    should be selling at very good prices, now that the 3 has been officially announced :-)

    grab your deals now!!!1!
  • golfboygolfboy Member Posts: 35
    Thanks Revka. I bought a bottle of Meguiar's Cleaner Wax as it says it removes swirl marks effectively. Meguiar's Gold Class polish also claims to do the job. I've yet to see the "Swirl Remover" marketed here in Canada. Will the cleaner wax do the job? Anyone else used this product before?

    I'm skeptical of these products as I've tried Mother's Scratch Remover and others like it and have had no luck with them. All they seem to do is attract dust as the spots on my car where I've applied the product seem to collect more dust than other areas.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    To wongpres & others interested in the Mazda3 - I've posted a direct link to the Mazda3 5 door hatch press & photos release in our Mazda3 Hatch discussion, Post 107. We look forward to hearing your thoughts about the Mazda3 in that discussion. ;-)

    To golfboy - You're welcome. Here's an informative article from Edmunds about waxing/polishing from Edmunds that you may find interesting. Also, at the bottom of that page, look for a direct link to the Meguiar's website. You can send them an email to find out about the wax cleaner... and availability of the Swirl Remover in Canada.

    Good luck, and please keep us posted on your Protege5 experience.

    Revka
  • frank140frank140 Member Posts: 1
    I ordered a new Protege 5 in April with the understanding from the dealer that it wuld entail a 5-6 week delay. At the end of June, the dealer cannot (or will not) give me an ETA on delivery. Is this normal? The dealer is in CT; the port of entry is Newark. Is there a hidden problem?
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    The P5 is on my list of cars to shop but I was surprised to learn that it will cost me more in insurance than either a Mazda6 or a Matrix XRS. From what the agent had on her screens, the 6 and matrix were rated as a 2 in safety meaning average while the P5 was a 3 meaning worse than average.

    I just checked the NHTSA crash test site and the protege sedan got 5 stars for the driver and a 4 for the passenger. The 6 and trix have 5 stars for both. I wonder what kind of car gets a 1 meaning better than average.

    Any owners finding that their insurance costs with the P5 are a little high? I was talking to USAA.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    In 2002, the Protegé and P5 were re-classified by the insurance industry as "premium economy" cars. This means that they have a higher than average replacement cost. Blame all the Kia Rios and Hyundai Accents. My annual insurance premium on my P5 is ~$750. That is about $140 more than my Miata. Go figure. It is not a safety issue, it is simply a matter of the P5 costing more than the average car in its class.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I'm about to get back my baby (yeahhh). The car has been immobilized for about two months on the boat. Any particular precaution should I take? I plan to put a injectors cleaner liquid in the fuel tank. Is it a good idea? Should I change oil right a way? Thank you for suggestions.

    Bruno
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I would do exactly what you said. I'm not sure what kind of exposure (if any) to ocean salt water, your P5 might have experienced, but I would thoroughly wash down the exterior and underside to remove any residual salt hiding in cracks and crevices.

    I wouldn't drive it to hard either at first. Let it thoroughly warm up before you start to have too much fun. ;)
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I'm in Connecticut and we have not seen any delays with P5's....If you email me the VIN # I can check the cars status.

    Rich
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    Thanks Terry for the excellent suggestion! She will take a good shower with shampoo.
  • wdrauchwdrauch Member Posts: 22
    I too am a little shocked at the insurance rate for my P5. I'm paying about $780 for 6 mos. in SE Michigan. My premium on my '01 Miata is about $660 (and I have it listed as a low mileage vehicle).
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Have you had a chance to check out any of the articles in Edmunds' Insurance section? You may find some helpful tips on ways to lower your insurance there. Good luck.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    It's also the type of driver that is assigned to a Pro/P5. While the average age of the driver is in the 40s, I see plenty of teenagers driving Proteges/P5s. Some drive very well and safely, others not so well (and the poor cars are dinged-up too). I think that's the reason the Protege/P5 insurance rates are higher than those for the Mazda6. Average driver's age is probably lower. The same applies to the Civic, Sentra, Corolla and Mirage/Lancer. I found insurance to be pretty much the same for this class of vehicle. Paradoxically, the next size up in each model line costs less to insure while they cost more to buy. I think the typical driver of these tend to be older and more conservative drivers. Oh well, the price of nimbleness and sportiness.
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