Mazda Protege5

mazdafun · May 2004

Better speakers make a huge difference. I actually find the stock head unit to be pretty good once you upgrade your speakers. I only replaced it with an aftermarket unit because my stock head unit died and Mazda was going to charge me a few hundred for a new one. I got my JVC SX-780 for less than half of what a factory one would have cost me, plus it's got a front AUX-in jack I use to connect my iPod on long trips.

One tip for upgrading speakers: look for ones with lower minimum power ratings. I think Pioneers are pretty good with this (Crutchfield used to list that data point, but no longer does); I think mine start at 2 or 4 watts RMS. Rockford-Fosgate and a couple others start at something ridiculously high like 10W. That means you need to supply more power to even hear something come out of them (on the flip side, they do have higher top RMS values). I guess they're made for systems that have a separate amplifier. I find the stock stereo to provide enough power for my personal needs with a good set of speakers. I like playing some music loudly, but I don't need to share it with other drivers.

You could get the Kenwoods that Mazda sells (they already come with the connectors you need to attach to your existing wire harnesses). I've read that they're pretty good. If you consider other speakers, make sure they don't protrude too much or are too deep to fit behind the door panels and in the recess. Crutchfield lists these values.

For the P5, the stock speakers are 6x8 front and 6.5in round in the rear. I don't know the size of the tweeters, if you have those, but I think the stock ones are OK. At least the rear speakers in the P5 are in the door, so they'll be easier to access than those in the sedans. Replacing the ones in my sedan under the rear shelf trim panel was really difficult.

I don't recall breaking any plastic connectors in the door trim panels (these are all 2-way types). You'll want a #1 or #0 Philips head and a small flat-bladed screwdriver (covered with electrical tape). There are a number of sites with pictures showing the procedure. Here are a couple specific to the P5:

http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/newcar/install.html

http://www.protege5online.com/Tech_Help/Audio/Speakers/speakers.h- tml

Give yourself about 45 minutes for the first door to learn the process and how to "wiggle" the panels out of and back into place. It takes less than 15 minutes for each of the others after that.

bballa · June 2004

This is the second oil change for my p5, 7200 miles, and I switched to mobil 1 10w-30 and used a purolater pureONE filter. Never used synthetic oil before but I will report back if I notice any difference or improvements. Is there anyone that has long term experience with mobil 1 or any synthetic oil, pureONE filter, in their p5?

mdaffron · June 2004

My 2000 ES has been about 25,000 miles now using MobilOne 10W-30. No complaints here; in fact I've seen my gas mileage increase about 1-2 mpg. As far as the PureOne filters are concerned, they're very highly rated and they're all I've been using in this car (75,800 miles now) and on my last vehicle.

My wife's P5 only has 32,000 miles on it. I generally follow the belief that "dino oil" is more than adequate until the car gets a little age on it.

Meade

mazdafun · June 2004

I use Mobil1 and Valvoline in 5W30 and 10W30 weights in both my '99 Pro LX (with 52k+ miles) and my wife's '03 P5 (with 22k+ miles). I started pretty much with the first oil change I did myself (I asked my wife to have the dealership do the first one on her P5 as I couldn't even budge the oil filter...they crank them on tightly at the plant, apparently).

Since they both pretty much started out on synthetic oil, I can't say how they behave differently from dino oil. However, on my '89 323LX, I noticed much smoother starts during winters (especially when it got below freezing) and slightly better fuel economy (about 1-2mpg). Extrapolating from the smoother and faster starts in freezing weather, I figure the engine wears less with the synthetic oil (most wear occurs at start-up). The engine also felt like it revved-up more easily, but I can't quantify that. I switched to synthetic oil in my '89 323 in '95, and didn't notice any problems switching from non-synthetic oil.

I notice the used synthetic oil drains faster and more easily than regular oil, especially when it's cold out. I don't even have to warm-up the engine. I run the cars just enough to back them up and then up the ramps.

KCRam · June 2004

Be sure to stop by the Synthetic motor oil discussion over in our Maintenance and Repair message board.

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reitrof · June 2004

I am curious as to why some of you are using 10W30 on the P5 when the manual says to use 5W30. Any comments?

Bruce

bballa · June 2004

Thanks for the responses. I plan on changing the oil twice a year because we put less than 10k miles a year on the car, so mobil one should be just the ticket. I use 10w-30 oil because I live in Northern California, mild climate, never really gets to cold. We do, however, have a few weeks where the temp reaches the high 90's. There is probably not much difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30,a little higher viscosity (10w-30). I've just always used 10w-30.

icvci · June 2004

I stumbled across this, looks pretty nice.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1- &item=2482341533&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT

jimmcknight · June 2004

- In case anyone wanted to get a bug deflector for their P5, I found one at autoseattle.com that fits great and looks nice, too. It's the smoke tint and is very low profile, following the curves of the hood perfectly. You don't drill holes, either! It has little clips that hold it in place. I think it was around $70 plus shipping.

PF_Flyer · July 2004

Be sure to check out our Town Hall chat lineup for Tuesday evenings... First up, talk the latest in new automotive technology during the Hybrid Vehicles Chat from 5-6pmPT/8-9pm ET

Hybrid Vehicles Chat Room

Immediately following at 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET, we keep the chat party going with the Mazda Mania chat.

Mazda Mania Chat Room

The Town Hall chats are a great place to take these message board topics LIVE. Hope to see you there this week!

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isseyvoo · July 2004

Well, I guess it's the old story of buyer beware, but we made the (apparently) foolish decision when we got our '03 P5 to purchase an "advance service plan" where the maintenance costs were allegedly rolled into the payment plan for the first 50K miles. Up to today's 30K service, it worked pretty well, just sticking a special coupon in the envelope when we dropped the car off. For the 30K service though, the dealer says we owe $429.95, of which the "service plan" only covers $55. I HATE misleading sales pitches, and should have known better than to fall for this one. We of course thought all service was covered, not just piddly oil changes, etc.

On another dissatisfied note, we've had a mildewy smell coming from the vents for several weeks. We asked the dealer to correct it, and they said it was a service issue, not a warranty issue, and they want $120 to fix it. (They claimed we must leave it in the rain or undriven too much. I replied that it is kept garaged and driven 35 mi. each way to work and back.) When I first bought my '92 Chevy, I had the same issue, and there was no question that it was covered. The dealer simply fixed it under warranty.

Am I being too demanding, or should something like this be covered in your opinion?

icvci · July 2004

Mildewy smell

Turn off your AC about a mile before you turn off the engine and run hot air through the vents. Otherwise, condensation stays in the vents and makes them smelly.

It's always worked for me.

In the mean time, why not try spraying Lysol in the vents? I'd use a hose like they put on WD40 cans to direct a shot of it deep into the vent. What can it hurt?

qddave · July 2004

Regarding your smelly A/C, you should take a look at NHTSA's website. I think this issue was brought up before in this forum or the Pro sedan forum. Anywho, I did a search under Recalls, then Service Bulletins, but for 2002 Protege not 2003 and your issue does in fact come up. The Summary says, "SUBJECT REGARDING AIR CONDITIONING MUSTY / MILDEW ODOR." Check it out. I'm not up to date on my lawyering skills, but this may be grounds enough to get Mazda to fix it on their dime.

dwryter · July 2004

Some time ago Mazda issued TSBs on excessive wind noise entering the cabin around the windshield or side windows, and through the vents. I brought my 2002 P5 into the dealer to have these items fixed under warranty. They no longer showed the TSBs on their system. The manager said if I can find and print the TSBs, he'll look into the matter more. Same problem with a rough idle, which intermittently drops about 300 RPM just for a moment. I'm wondering if anyone here has had either problem fixed under warranty and, if so, whether the fix succeeded. Thanks.

dwryter · July 2004

While at the dealer I noticed that Mazda does have an open TSB on mildewy smells from the air conditioning. Ask your service advisor to check. I don't know if the TSB offers a solution, but icvci is right. Just get into a habit of turning off the AC a couple minutes before you get to your destination and that'll help you avoid future occurrences. In my case, I turn it off as I turn onto my street when heading home, and at the intersection just before my office. Leave the fan on, of course, to dry the moisture.

isseyvoo · July 2004

Thanks for the heads up on the TSB. I tried that route with the dealer. They faxed us a 3 page "fix" procedure, that involves spraying some compound into the system to coat the A/C coils and "encapsulate" the mold/mildew. Seemed like a strange fix. At any rate, the last line states "Not covered under warranty". So much for that.

I know this is "just business," but I feel let down since I had been an enthusiastic proponent of Mazda, having convinced a colleague to get a Mazda6 from my dealer, and a friend in NJ to go out and buy a Mazda3. Foolish I suppose, but I feel like a buddy has let me down.

Meanwhile, we've been leaving the fan on low at all times (when the A/C is off), just to flush new air through the system. Seems to help somewhat. Hopefully that will continue. And we've adopted y'all's advice to turn off the A/C awhile before stopping the car.

Thanks for your tips!

Cheers.

dwryter · July 2004

Several of our previous cars had the smelly AC problem. It's probably very common. But we learned from the first instance to air out the system after turning off the AC, and now you've learned that, too.

No car is perfect and despite the windnoise, rough idle, and a few other nits, I'm still enjoying my P5 and happy I bought it. Perhaps your pals feel the same way about their Mazdas.

As for disappointment with the dealer, you'd benefit by lowering your expectations. I ask them to look at and fix problems under warranty, but don't expect results. However, I have those problems documented as existing under warranty and that should help me fight later, six miles after the warranty expires, when the service guy says, "You need a new computer and master brake cylinder. That'll be $1200, please."

cogs25 · July 2004

I too have experienced the rough idle in my 2003. Is there any way to get copies of this TSB so we can take it to the dealer?

kauai215 · August 2004

Where did everyone go? Did another forum start up and everyone migrate over there?

andrewk · August 2004

I too wonder about the lack of p5 messages. I have had mine for 7 months now and still am as excited about the car as the day I bought it. Not a single problem to date. Am getting 31 mpg in combo city/highway driving aggressively with the 5 speed. Have never been happier with a new car! Zoom-Zoom!

jimmcknight · August 2004

- I thought my computer went bad or something. Whenever I log-on to this site, I see messages from long ago.I had to type in the most recent message number in order to view anything current. I wonder if others are having similar difficulty and not being directed to the most current messages. Anyway, my 2003 P5 has 8500 miles and runs sweet except for some minor tire feathering.

isseyvoo · August 2004

Well, we're up to 32K aggressive miles on our 2003 P5 5 sp. and still grinning (except for a smelly air conditioner - but that now seems to have cured itself). Still on the original tires, but will have to change them before old man winter rolls around. Are there any "high miles" drivers out there that can give their 2 cents as to what to expect as the odo marches upward? I know the timing belt gets swapped out at 60K or so. What else? Problem areas?

nickg4bruins · August 2004

Not a senior, but passing 22k on my 2003 P5 5 speed. No problems yet except some spiders like to make webs between my mirrors and door..the best way to get them off is just to drive real fast! Original tires still and I used snows last winter so i hope to be able to use the original dunlops until sometime next year. isseyvoo, did you change your spark plugs yourself at 30k, or did the shop do it for you?
The only issue ive noticed on my ride recently is that when I'm in first or second gear at low speeds, the car will jump when i let off the throttle. Oil change doesn't make a difference, and Im wondering if maybe the plugs are going sooner than expected?

darylj · August 2004

Hello all! Just bought a 2003 P5 over the weekend with 18K miles on it and enjoying. Its a 5 spd/sunroof/6cd-changer. The sticker on the door says it was made Sept. 2002. So I got the roof rack instead of the subwoofer. There is a slight chip on the hood that shows a little rust. Do you think the corrosion warranty will cover that? Also, i noticed that the shifter vibrates. Anyone experience the same?

isseyvoo · August 2004

Had the shop do its wallet-emptying 30K service (including plugs).

We've noticed too that the car doesn't like inching along at low speeds. Ever since new, it's hard to keep smooth when not accelerating in 1st -- we get the "jumps" like you describe when backing off the accelerator in low gear.

mdaffron · August 2004

After owning 5-speeds from Toyota, Saab, Hyundai and Mazda (three times), I can report that the first-gear jumpiness isn't a Mazda thing -- it's a manual-transmission thing. First gear in my Protege is no different from first gear in any of the other manuals I've owned since 1985.

Meade

autonomous · August 2004

Has anyone kept track of longterm fuel mileage?

I'm pleasantly surprised by the 30 miles per gallon that my Pro5 automatic has averaged since June 2002 for its 24000 miles. Considering its many short trips inside the city, its spirited highway drives, the grueling Canadian winters (I shudder at the thought of those minus 30 Celsius mornings) and the escalating price per barrel, this car has turned out to be a pro.

nickg4bruins · August 2004

I've kept track of every fill up since I bought my car. I think the worst mileage I got was around 26 mpg in the winter due to the car warming up in the a.m. The best mileage I got was close to 38 mpg, riding on back roads averaging 50-60mph.

kauai215 · August 2004

I'm pleased to see that this forum hasn't died. I've always enjoyed stopping in and reading about our splendid P5s. I like this car a lot.

Good to see you folks! :-)

pciskowski · August 2004

Had to have the rear struts replaced at 57K. I thought about that cost, the timing belt coming up, and the clutch chatter problem that would come back this winter, so I decided to trade it in. I got an 04 Camry. It's much less exciting, in a good and bad way...

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"Anyway, my 2003 P5 has 8500 miles and runs sweet except for some minor tire feathering."

My understanding is that tire feathering is generally attributable to two causes:

(1) Lots of hard cornering, and then it's normal. (Why not? It's fun, and is what this splendid go-kart with five doors was made for, right? Just watch out for the Enforcers! ;-)

(2) Wheel alignment problems, and then it's not normal.

You might wish to investigate and make sure your feathering is not due to #2 lest you erase your tires prematurely and needlessly.

Whenever I wonder if someone has been really pressing on, flinging his car around a lot, I just lightly brush my hand over the tire tread surfaces. You can feel the feathering with your eyes closed, you don't even need to see it. Something to consider when examining a used car for sale.

Hope this has been helpful. :-)

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"... so I decided to trade it in. I got an 04 Camry."

I'll miss your quiet, clever wit.

Enjoy your new Camry, a nice car. :-)

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"Ever since new, it's hard to keep smooth when not accelerating in 1st -- we get the "jumps" like you describe when backing off the accelerator in low gear."

Yep. True of our 2002 P5, too. I've been buying new cars since '68, all manual gearboxes (sticks, or trannies for those saying, "Huh?" I'm old. ;-), and not one has ever been as sensitive to throttle tip-in as our P5.

Now, many cars have been a bit sensitive at low speeds in parking lots, for example, especially in the summer months with the AC turned on. They'd surge a bit as the AC cycled on or off. But this P5 is rather more touchy.

The only driving solution is to mutter "sumbitch!" and declutch. Then re-engage the clutch and move along. Alternatively, one might floor the throttle, which would also clear up the problem, but this is a poor strategy in crowded parking lots.

I can't remember for sure (I'm old, remember?), but I think I read that the fuel injector spray pattern may not be optimal and is the culprit here. I thought they rectified that in later models.

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"Has anyone kept track of longterm fuel mileage?"

Yes.

Miles: 12,888
Gallons: 446.2

Miles Per Gallon: 28.88

Note: Mostly highway/Interstate driving at 60-70 mph. A small percentage of the miles done with two kayaks with kayak rack on the roof.

isseyvoo · August 2004

Actually my '01 Oldsmobile Alero 5 sp. can easily be driven in bumper to bumper traffic without the jerkiness I experience in our '03 Pro 5. Even my '92 Chevy Cavalier 5 sp. does better. Don't get me wrong, I love our little Mazda, but it is definitely more twitchy than normal in 1st. I would choose to take the Mazda when driving in any conditions other than heavy low-speed traffic and highway cruising. In those instances I would take my Olds first because of the smoother clutch/tranny and the higher top gearing, respectively.

mdaffron · August 2004

Or two, actually.

American cars are built for comfort first, driveability second. Those cushy motor mounts in your Olds are probably absorbing the same jerk you're feeling in your Protege. (The Chevy, which also is tuned for American buttocks, is probably doing the same thing.)

I remember hearing once, on Car Talk on NPR, a guy complaining about an automatic transmission that jerked more than the owner would like as it shifted. But it came down to the fact that a jerking transmission is one that is tight and is engaging with very little "slippage" as it does so. Transmissions that shift like butter are usually using some slippage to do so, and in the long run you'll pay by replacing that clutch or automatic tranny sooner. I prefer jerkiness to a poorly designed transmission.

One last thing from a fellow 5-speed owner -- If you're moving, even slowly, you really should be in second gear as long as you're not coming to a stop.

Meade

jimmcknight · August 2004

- My 2003(.5) has auto and gets around 23 mpg in winter and 28-32 in summer here in far northern IL. The tire feathering at 8500 miles is the same as it was at 4000 miles. I drive very easily, and the dealer, of course, denies that there's a problem. Yes, you can feel it with your fingertips on the outside row of tread.They said to take it to a Dunlop dealer and complain. I'll bet it is an alignment problem, too. What a fun car, though! Always gets lots of looks and positive comments!

autonomous · August 2004

Hi kauai215!

MPG: 28.88 Miles: 12,888 Gallons: 446.2

Pretty impressive numbers; I'm glad to know I'm not the only spreadsheet fiend. Do you own an automatic or manual? Does the rack affect your mileage much?

You mention 60-70 mph which in the Canadian world is around 100-120 km. Have you ever taken it beyond this? I normally cruise the highway at 120 and have been known to pass at 130 (which scares the heck out of my wife). Yesterday, I took it up to 140 on a deserted stretch and that baby sang that zoom-zoom tune sweetly.

autonomous · August 2004

Hi jimmcknight:

"My 2003(.5) has auto and gets around 23 mpg in winter and 28-32 in summer here in far northern IL. The tire feathering at 8500 miles is the same as it was at 4000 miles. I drive very easily, and the dealer, of course, denies that there's a problem."

Are you ready to run the gauntlet of questions?
Here they are:

1. Where does the tire feathering occur?
- Likely the front tires, right?
- Driver/Passenger side?

2. Do you have your tires rotated regularly?
- at least once a year?

3. Does the steering veer to the side or do
you feel an unusual vibration?

and finally

4. Have you travelled to Montreal or have you experienced the killer pothole?
- Montreal is known for its car-eating roads, esp. in the spring after a good winter thaw. A glorious city but best viewed after the road crews get a chance to patch up Mother Nature's handiwork

pappy55 · August 2004

since 10/30/03-

odo: 10,632
avg mpg: 29.83
worst mpg: 26 (first tank)
best mpg: 36

kauai215 · August 2004

Hi autonomous,

Singing babies! LOL. I like that. :-)

Actually, I dont maintain my fuel figures in a spreadsheet, although that would make sense and maybe someday Ill get around to doing that. I just keep a small spiral-bound pocket notebook in the glovebox in which I faithfully record all refueling data from the day I take delivery of the new car until the day I sell it. This takes less than a minute to do after refueling. From time to time I total up the figures on my printing calculator and record them in this same notebook. (That way I dont have to start from scratch each time.) When I saw your question, I went out to the car, got the book, and updated it for you and the others.

Theres nothing much unusual about our driving, so Id expect most people would average right around the same figures we do if they were to drive in a similar manner.

You wrote:
You mention 60-70 mph which in the Canadian world is around 100-120 km. Have you ever taken it beyond this?

Heavens yes! <laughing>

Both out of necessity (read survival) as well as for pleasure in appropriate venues.

In the left lane during commute hours on the Interstate, 85 mph is commonplace. In fact, unless youre prepared to pick it up to that pace, youd best take care about venturing out into the left lane lest you be trampled to death so to speak. ;-)

Although its been decades since I last drove in Toronto during morning rush hour (on trips to Mosport for races), my recollection is that that crowd hustles right along, too, just like here in the Milwaukee, WI, metro area.

I recall not long ago while traveling home around mid-afternoon on the Interstate outside Madison, WI, and I was hustling right along, just keeping pace, moving with the flow out in the left lane at 85 mph, and watching my mirrors for the faster guys and thinking that this was quicker than Milwaukee for this time of day, and damned if I dont see some bloody great commercial big-rig trucks barreling down on me at a good clip. Remember, Im doing 85 mph. And theyre catching me fast. I moved right over at the soonest opportunity and they roared on by. Goodness.

Basically, Im not keen on maintaining close quarters with big-rigs at those speeds. In fact, I always maneuver for a big space-cushion around me whenever possible, seeking to stay two seconds back of the guy in front of me, and hoping for a good one wholl do the same for me on my rear bumper. (Remember, its _time_, not distance, thats the key to a safe following distance. :-)

Not the place for your wife, I wouldnt think, if she is inclined to start screaming around 130 kph (81 mph). To be fair, I should note that Im a _terrible_ passenger; I scream in fear at the slightest provocation when Im a passenger. Say Hi to your wife from me. ;-)

And as to pleasure? Ive seen 95 mph or so on the straights on certain select twisty country roads. I prefer to keep it below 100 mph. Im very picky about where I do that sort of driving, though. There just arent many places where I can drive at those speeds in safety without jeopardizing my fellow motorists. I have strict ethical ideas about that sort of thing, which consequently constrain me to more appropriate speeds.

Why am I so fussy? Because my mistake, should I make one, shouldnt cost you and your lovely family their lives as you come towards me from the other direction. Right?

Safe as I am (he says smugly), your wife would probably feel better not riding with me! <laughing>

Safety fast. (An old sportscar commercial slogan. MG, I think. Have I mentioned Im old? ;-)

kauai215 · August 2004

Forgot to answer your other questions.

Our P5 is a manual; we never buy automatics.

I can't say for sure, but the kayak rack with saddles for two kayaks probably costs 1-2 mpg because of increased drag. It's hard to say for sure. I remove it if I don't think I'll use it for awhile, and intend to drive much outside of town; it won't matter much at 25 mph in town.

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"The tire feathering at 8500 miles is the same as it was at 4000 miles. I drive very easily, and the dealer, of course, denies that there's a problem."

No! Really? What a surprise! ;-)

It's not true. Don't believe it.

If you drive like a grown-up, whatever that might mean (I suspect I may not qualify ;-), you will not feather your tires. Period. Not unless theres an alignment problem.

My tires have never been feathered in ordinary driving except when theres been an alignment problem, which is usually easily corrected.

You wrote:
Yes, you can feel it with your fingertips on the outside row of tread.

Yep. Thats what I figured.

Your problem is that your car has got 8500 miles on it now. I think youre going to need to pay for an alignment. I recommend it. You see, as Autonomous has alluded to, one nasty bounce through a big pothole can knock your wheel alignment off. You ever watch people park? Theyre crazed. One bounce off the concrete curbstone will knock your wheels out of alignment. And so on. . .

Thats normal wear and tear. Do not bang your front wheels on things. Get off the brakes when traversing a bump. Never, ever, brake over railroad tracks. And so on. . .

The dealer should level with you. Dont hold your breath waiting, though; youll turn blue. <sigh>

What you describe is almost certainly the result of excessive toe-in. Even if its not, the solution will involve adjusting the toe anyway. So, Id start with that. But how will you know that was the fix? Rotate the tires, putting unfeathered tires up front; then check them daily for feathering. Youre now at a good mileage for tire rotation anyway.

I follow this pattern: fronts straight back, and rears crossed over to the front. Repeat at appropriate intervals. This will result in each tire being mounted at every position in its life. These OEM Dunlops appear to have relatively short life, so Id rotate more often than less.

You wrote:
They said to take it to a Dunlop dealer and complain.

Ill bet they did. The Dunlop people will laugh at you. Dont waste your time. Its not Dunlops fault. Thats just silly to suggest it even _could_ be.

The interesting question that arises is: Is your dealer incompetent, or a lying cheat. Probably both, alas.

Although, to be fair, I dont believe youre entitled to a free alignment at this mileage. Now, if you had complained at 4000 miles, too, then Id say you might have a case. Its a difficult call, because you could have tweaked the front end parking your car one mile away from the dealership after taking delivery, and it wouldnt be their fault, the manufacturers, or anyones but your own. Do you see the problem?

Tire treads become feathered as a consequence of spending lots of time going sideways. With excessive toe-in your tires are being dragged ever so slightly sideways down every straight. Theyre pigeon-toed. Does this make sense to you? I can elaborate if needed.

You wrote:
I'll bet it is an alignment problem, too. 

And youd win! Because youre right! Now, if only you could get the dealership personnel to actually bet money. ;-)

Your problem is a common one. Lots of readers would appreciate confirmation. When you get it fixed, post the solution for them, wont you? They dont know me from the mayors dog. :-)

You wrote:
What a fun car, though! Always gets lots of looks and positive comments! 

Yessir.

I hope my lengthy (as usual) response has helped you to understand the problem, and eased your mind about whether you should spend the money for a wheel alignment. Its the right thing to do. And the sooner the better, because youre dragging those front tires sideways every mile you drive. Youre erasing them.

jimmcknight · August 2004

- Many thanks for great responses to tire feathering problems! Sounds like an alignment is in order, regardless of who pays for it. These tires were rotated front-to-back when I took off the snow tires this spring, and it's the left side tires that have the problem. It makes sense now that the front tire is being "dragged" and causing the problem. Thanks!

autonomous · August 2004

What a great group!

SURVEY RESULTS: PRO5 AVERAGE MPG = 30

Thanks pappy55 for your contribution and as kauai215 says "Id expect most people would average right around the same figures we do"
Pat yourselves on the back for buying a great car that has a decent fuel rating! If there are others who have numbers that match or differ, share!

SURVEY 2: PRO5 REV BAND
On to the next part of the Pro5 story! How many of you have checked your tach as you zoom along.
Assuming a straight road (that is, no hills)
what is the RPM for the following speeds. Unfortunately, since I don't have my spreadsheet on hand (kauai215's notebook has a distinct advantage here) I'll send you my numbers soon to compare. So for example at 60 mph I recollect the Pro5 reaches 3200 RPM. Don't do this on a busy interstate!

So ...
Idling @ ____ RPM
40 mph @ ____ RPM
45 mph @ ____ RPM
50 mph @ ____ RPM
55 mph @ ____ RPM
60 mph @ ____ RPM
65 mph @ ____ RPM
70 mph @ ____ RPM
75 mph @ ____ RPM
80 mph @ ____ RPM
85 mph @ ____ RPM
90 mph @ ____ RPM
95 mph @ ____ RPM
100mph @ ____ RPM (Gasp!)

Cheers!

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
What a great group!

Folks with the good judgment to buy a P5 tend to be good people, I reckon. Were a self-selecting group. :-)

You wrote:
Pat yourselves on the back for buying a great car that has a decent fuel rating!

Especially these days with escalating fuel prices. Makes us glad we resisted the impulse to buy something far less fuel-efficient that might be returning 15 mpg or so. (No, not an SUV. Something more like an SVT -- Cobra, that is. Power is addictive, dont let anyone tell you otherwise. ;-)

About the RPM question: Ill check again to note the exact figure, but I think 70 mph is in the low 3000s, 3200 maybe. Thats in 5th gear, of course. Your chart didnt specify the gears.

Im curious why you ask about this. In a locked system, such as a manual transmission car with a given set of wheels and tires, every P5 (identical to mine) will be turning exactly the same engine rpms at any given speed, all things being equal. Tiny differences might arise due to different tire inflation pressures (and ambient temperatures, which will, in turn, alter the tire pressures +-), but otherwise rpm will be locked into a formula. All of our cars are the same, or should be.

Are you experiencing a problem? Apart from clutch slippage (not good), if youve got a manual gearbox, your rpms at any given speed should be identical to mine, unless some other mechanical component is different such as gear ratios or anything else that would effectively change the ratio.

Hills would make no difference, whether uphill, downhill, or on the flats. It must be so. (Or Im really confused, which is always a possibility. ;-)

But I understand why one might at first think hills matter -- it seems reasonable to think hills might. (Think about your experience riding a bicycle: If speed remains constant, and you havent changed gears, then your pedal rpms must be identical for any given speed, hill or not. Right? :-) If it isnt, then youve got slipping somewhere in the system, and the only place that comes to mind is the clutch. That would be a problem and would call for attention.

Extending your thought to another issue: My 2002 (early build) P5 seems to do about 68 mph on the stopwatch when the speedometer is reading 70 mph. Im thinking Mazda put the lower profile tires on the P5 and didnt bother to recalibrate the speedometer from the regular Protégé sedan. I dont know, just musing. My salesman suggested that the shop could recalibrate speedometers. Is this true? I never heard of such a thing, but since its all electronic and governed by a computer chip, it seems reasonable. No doubt, the fee would be prohibitive, but Im just curious if it can be done electronically by simply reprogramming an element in the computer system.

jimmcknight · August 2004

- I was surprised to see that my odometer was registering a bit short on the highway. Using the mile markers as a guide, my odo registered almost exactly 98 miles when it was 100 miles according to the signs. I thought maybe the opposite would be true with the low-profile tires. I guess that means I'll only be showing 98,000 miles when it will actually be 100,000! Of course, as tires wear they get smaller, so they'll go through more revs in a mile.

kauai215 · August 2004

You wrote:
"Of course, as tires wear they get smaller, so they'll go through more revs in a mile."

I never stopped to think about that. You're absolutely right. In fact, if they go from, say, 10/32 to 2/32, they've worn 1/4", which would be a difference of 1/2" in diameter. (I'm too lazy to go look up what that would mean in rev/mi on the tire sites for this tire, but maybe I'll get 'round to it later.)

But my timing over "measured" miles via those mile markers you refer to, suggest my wheels/tires are already smaller despite being only a bit worn.

Logic would suggest my odometer would read high, not low... as yours has.

I'm scratching my head in puzzlement. How about you? :-)

jimmcknight · August 2004

- I wonder if there's a difference between the auto and the manual transmissions - would that matter if there were different final drive ratios? My car is automatic and only a few thousand miles on the Dunlops. Curiously, my snows are 205/50R-16 and are also about 2% slow on registering the miles.

kauai215 · September 2004

There could certainly be a difference in speedo calibration between the auto and manual transmission cars. Whether there is, or not, I dont know. Any difference in gear ratios would affect rpms at a given road speed, but Id think the manufacturer would properly calibrate the speedometer/odometer to each model car.

I wonder how accurate the road mileage markers are over long distances? It may be that they are reasonably accurate from marker to marker, but over 100 miles, perhaps cumulative error creeps in. I have no idea, just speculating.

I have noted that if I take repetitive splits on my stopwatch at each mile marker, there is more variation than I would have expected, certainly more than seems reasonably attributable to timing errors. Ive always been able to regularly hand time cars at races to within 0.1 or even .01 seconds of the official timing. Yet, sometimes my times are a full second different between Interstate mileage markers. At 60 mph, one second equates to 88 feet. This inconsistency is why I take multiple splits, and then average them when checking my speedometer calibration.

I generally dont push the speed limits much anymore; its too stressful, not to mention distracting, trying to watch for and anticipate every place an Enforcer with a radar might be hiding in wait for me. (Radar spoiled the game.) He could be just out of sight over every brow, around every blind bend, or up behind every bridge abutment, back up out of sight along an entry ramp, or even, as I observed recently, behind the concrete wall up on a bridge overpass aiming his radar unit down onto oncoming traffic -- those weasels are everywhere.

Its about a twenty mile drive from downtown to our village. At 69 mph (where I set my cruise control), I cover that distance in 17:23; no Enforcer is going to trouble me at 4 mph over the 65 mph limit. At 80 mph one would cover 20 miles in 15:00 minutes -- assuming no extra time spent "in discussion" with an Enforcer at the roadside. ;-)

The 2:23 extra minutes saved is hardly worth the aggravation, not to mention the risk of a hefty ticket and subsequent insurance rate increase. Id save 4:46 over 40 miles -- still not worth it. Its much easier to just leave 5 minutes earlier if time is important. I cannot think of many occasions when saving 2:23, or even 4:46, is important to me. Knowing how my speedometer is calibrated keeps me safe on the Interstate.

I do miss the early seventies when radar was not a threat, and an Enforcer had to catch me and pace me (and if he could do that, I _deserved_ a ticket for inattention!), and I could safely cruise at 90-100 mph on trips in my Boss 302 along empty stretches of Midwest Interstate. I recall one sunny early morning cruising peacefully at 95 mph on largely empty Interstate heading down to the Indy 500, and having a nice Porsche 911 pass me. We nodded to one another and gave the thumbs-up sign. Ah, the Good Old Days. <sigh>

What were we talking about? Oh, yes. . .

Your 205/50 tires are nominally larger diameter than the OEM 195/50s. Arguably, there should be a difference in odometer readings between the two different sizes of tires.

The tire size issue interests me because when I replace the OEM tires on my P5, I anticipate getting a slightly larger tire, either a 205/50 or 205/55. A slightly larger diameter tire would bring my speedometer into better calibration, I think. The wider tire gives me a better selection to choose from and, my principal reason, should give me a slightly improved ride. I love my P5 on smooth roads, but its a wee bit too harsh-riding on rough roads.

Mazda Protege5

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