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Mazda Protege5

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Comments

  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    You wrote:

    "Those with newer tires in the snow belt, are they better or worse than the Dunlops?"

     

    I'll pitch in and offer a few ideas.

     

    I suspect your question, as asked, is difficult to answer. New tires will have 10/32" or more of tread, and in consequence will surely be superior to the (likely) near-bald tires that were discarded when the new tires were purchased. Thus, the comparison is not really fair. Of course the new tires will perform better in the snow regardless of what brand or model just because of the advantage afforded by the deep tread vs. the worn out Dunlops.

     

    A proper comparison would require a new Dunlop compared to a new alternative. Typical "end users" don't have such options for making comparisons.

     

    Your best bet might be to visit the Tire Rack website and read their reviews of tires. See what appeals to you, and then ask about that particular tire on various discussion groups, and use the search feature to find comments as well.

     

    For what it's worth, if you live where you need to drive a lot on snow, today's dedicated snow tires are amazing, performing far better than the best of the four-season tires. They're well worth the money if you spend a lot of time on snow and ice. Be sure to buy four, not two, if you choose this option.

     

    I regularly see it said of four-season tires that they do well at NOTHING. I suspect that's a slight exaggeration, but still... something to think about.

     

    It's a bit late in the season to buy snow tires, though. The manufacturers apparently produce only a limited number, and when the supplies are exhausted, that's it until next season.

     

    I put Dunlop Winter Sport M3 tires on our Si this year. They're super for our needs.
  • isseyvooisseyvoo Member Posts: 121
    I have been pleased with my Toyo TPTs (original size) in the wet and snow. Of course, as an all-season tire, it's a compromise compared with dedicated snow tires, but the Toyos are clearly far superior to the Dunlops in bad weather (even compared to the Dunlops when the car was brand new--Bought it in Jan. '03 so it was baptized in snow almost immediately) and almost as fun in the dry weather.
  • natilusnatilus Member Posts: 1
    After much searching I am about to buy a used P5, I am looking at several but noticed somthing that didn't make sense to me. In the 2002's and from what I've seen of the 2003's, P5's with cloth interior and the side airbags have a little srs badge on the side of the seat, presumably where the the bag pops out. I am looking at a late run 2003 model, with ABS and side airbags and leather interior, it is the only leather car I've seen but it has no little srs badge on the side of the seat, the window sticker that seller has clearly states ABS w/ side air bags.... what's the deal ??
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    In the U.S. at least, my understanding is that if the P5 has air bags it has both front and side. Maybe thay didn't want to but the sticker on the leather.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Side air bags were an option on my wife's 2002 Protege5, as part of a package deal with a sunroof she didn't opt for.

     

    Meade
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    Meade wrote:

    "Side air bags were an option on my wife's 2002 Protege5, as part of a package deal with a sunroof she didn't opt for."

     

    I have an '02 P5 with the sunroof, but no side air bags.

     

    So, to contribute yet another "nope" <laughing>, I think the side air bags were packaged with ABS; that's my distinct recollection. However, since I seem to forget a lot of things these days, I wouldn't bet a lot on it. ;-)

     

    -Kauai (an old fart whose memory is suspect, and who has mixed feelings about ABS. ;-)

     

    P.S. A "refrigerator box," you say? And your wife and son stick by you? You must be an awfully nice fellow! :-)
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    You're right. Damn my memory is getting worse all the time. I remembered that the sunroof and air bags were tied together as an option, I forgot that it was just the side air bags.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I wonder if your sunroof is aftermarket. I wanted the side air bags and remember that I had to buy them as a package with the sunroof. Maybe the sunroof was available without the side air bags though.
  • dwryterdwryter Member Posts: 87
    I bought my 2002 P5 on 3/30/02. At that time in California, the sunroof was one option (took it) and side-air bags/ABS was another (didn't take it). I remember partly because I wanted the side-air bags, but didn't need ABS in San Diego where we have no weather, and $800 was too much to pay for both.
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    Iamz wrote:

    &#147;I wonder if your sunroof is aftermarket.&#148;

     

    Nope <laughing>, my sunroof is OEM standard equipment from Mazda, itemized on the Munroney sticker, etc.

     

    Iamz wrote:

    &#147;Maybe the sunroof was available without the side air bags though.&#148;

     

    Yep, there were many new 2002 P5s on the lot at the time with sunroofs, but without ABS/airbags. I wasn&#146;t interested in the ABS/airbag cars if I could avoid them.

     

    Iamz wrote:

    &#147;I wanted the side air bags and remember that I had to buy them as a package with the sunroof.&#148;

     

    [Let me see if we have the original Mazda Protege5 brochure in our files. . .]

     

    Found it! Along with an explanation for possible misunderstanding: The ABS is indeed packaged with the side air bags, _and_ this package &#147;REQUIRES moonroof.&#148;

     

    As a stand-alone option, a &#147;Power sliding-glass moonroof with interior sunshade&#148; is available. That&#146;s what I got.

     

    In this 2002 Mazda Protege5 product brochure, there is no option for &#147;ordering&#148; ABS _or_ side air bags, separately -- they come packaged together or not at all. And if you opt for the ABS/airbags, you get a moonroof whether you want it or not.

     

    As most of you know, this sort of &#147;packaging&#148; is characteristic of import cars, where one cannot order them specifying each item as desired, the way one has typically been able to do with the American makes. If you want cruise control on an import, for example, you often are forced to take a package of things, some of which you may not want.

     

    Increasingly, cars are coming with &#147;everything,&#148; and there may not be any options to speak of. For example, on our &#146;02 Civic Si, the _only_ option, as I recall, was side airbags. Everything else is standard. I&#146;d have passed on the power sunroof if I&#146;d had that option, and I&#146;d probably have passed on the ABS, too, which, on this car, is excessively aggressive. (Autocrossers often pull the fuse on the ABS on the Si to defeat it during competition.)

     

    Hope this helps resolve the confusion.

     

    I wonder if the original poster bought that P5, and, if he did, how he likes it so far?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I was right. Try finding some facts before you smear someone's name around here, OK?

     

    Or is your answer going to be "Nope"?

     

    Meade

    (Comfy with my Kenmore box and the factual information I post here)
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    If you have a problem with another member, discuss it in email or contact me. Clear enough?

     

    kcram

    Host - Wagons
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    [Bizarre personal attack snipped. . .]

    mdaffron wrote:
    &#147;(Comfy with my Kenmore box and the factual information I post here)&#148;

    &#147;Factual,&#148; especially in this context, is not synonymous with &#147;infallible.&#148;

    mdaffron wrote:
    &#147;So, SEE KAUAI? I was right.&#148;

    No. You were not.

    mdaffron wrote:
    &#147;Nope. Side airbags were an option on my wife's 2002 Protege5, as part of a package deal with a sunroof she didn't opt for.&#148;

    (Thus initiating the &#147;Nope&#148; thread. . .)

    The questioner came to Edmunds to ask, essentially: How can a prospective buyer know whether there are side airbags in a used P5?

    At best, Daffron&#146;s &#147;Nope&#148; post was ambiguous, confusing, and potentially misleading to Edmunds readers. (Indeed, the ambiguity is such that one cannot even be certain precisely what Daffron himself believes.) Daffron&#146;s argument fails to meet reasonable standards of clarity, especially in this context, as a poster comes here seeking information about how to determine whether a used P5 has side airbags.

    Such issues regularly concern used car buyers -- who need clarity, not more confusion.

    If this thread were permitted to die with Meade Daffron&#146;s &#147;argument&#148; standing unchallenged, I would fully expect at least half of all visitors, reading now and in the future, to leave with the false impression that all P5s with a sunroof . . . also have side airbags.

    Already, right here in this very thread, at least one reader, a contributor here, has been confused.

    Our P5s have not been produced for a few years, and the traffic in this Edmunds P5 Forum seems &#147;static.&#148; I anticipate that many of the newcomers to this group these days will be those seeking information about the purchase of used P5s.

    I hope with this post to finally clear up any lingering doubts and confusion that may remain for the increasing number of future Edmunds readers who will come here to learn how Mazda Protege5 vehicles are equipped as they seek out these vehicles on the used car market.

    The sunroof is NOT &#147;packaged&#148; with side airbags. The side airbags are part of a &#147;package&#148; with ABS -- not with a sunroof. The sunroof is a distinctly separate item, able to be ordered separately, unlike the ABS and side airbags, which ALWAYS come &#147;packaged&#148; together. The separate sunroof option is forced on the buyer wanting ABS/side airbags.

    This is not merely a semantic distinction.

    This is an important LOGICAL distinction.

    Failure to recognize this distinction may result in a false conclusion being drawn about the presence of side airbags in the presence of a sunroof (and ABS, too, although the original poster is only concerned about the side airbags.)

    I ask my readers to consider (with some assumptions), the following statements:
    (1) All P5s equipped with ABS will also have side airbags. This statement is TRUE.
    (2) All P5s equipped with side airbags will also have ABS. This statement is TRUE.
    (3) All P5s equipped with ABS/side airbags will also have a sunroof. This statement is TRUE.
    (4) All P5s _not_ equipped with a sunroof, will also _not_ have ABS/side airbags. This statement is TRUE.
    (5) All P5s equipped with a sunroof will also have ABS/side airbags. This statement is FALSE!
    (6) SOME P5s equipped with a sunroof will also have ABS/side airbags. This statement is TRUE.

    Statement #5 is the problem here. mdaffron&#146;s &#147;Nope&#148; assertion fails to adequately account for this, leaving a reader who&#146;s trying to figure out this puzzle, perhaps to conclude erroneously that any used P5 advertised _with_ a sunroof will _also_ have side airbags (and ABS).

    Any given P5 with a sunroof may or may not have the ABS/side air bags package -- the buyer will need to confirm this. While I haven&#146;t driven an ABS/side airbag P5, I should think that confirming the presence of ABS is easy: There&#146;s probably an ABS light on the instrument panel at startup. Moreover, one ought to test the ABS on a test-drive, which is easily done, too. Having confirmed the presence of ABS, one can then logically conclude (with some assumptions) that side airbags are also present on the vehicle in question.

    Mdaffron&#146;s &#147;Nope&#148; assertion fails to clarify the logical possibility that a sunroof might be present in the ABSENCE of side airbags (and ABS).

    The presence of a sunroof on a Mazda Protege5 is absolutely NOT proof of the presence of ABS/side airbags.

    To help correct this possible misunderstanding, &#147;Dwryter&#148; and I both posted to note that our P5s each have a sunroof, but do not have ABS or side airbags. Both of our cars are logically consistent with Mazda&#146;s build strategy.

    Apparently, according to the original poster, &#147;natilus,&#148; there may not be obvious evidence that leather-equipped P5s have side airbags, and he&#146;s puzzled.

    Potential buyers need clarity, not confusion. They need to know what they&#146;re buying, if only so that they might negotiate price with confidence.

    I hope that those who visit this Edmunds Forum, and read this thread, will now leave better informed.

    To &#147;natilus,&#148; the original poster: That P5 you were examining with the ABS almost certainly has side airbags. Do what you need to confirm this for yourself, but assuming Mazda maintained the same build strategy throughout to the end of production, and that the relevant parts are OEM, and the bags haven&#146;t been deployed, it seems logical to conclude that the car does have side airbags. In addition, on an unrelated note, I suggest that you test-drive a P5 on a rough stretch of road to confirm that you can live with the sports-car-harsh ride. Some folks find it too harsh. Good luck. :-)

    -Kauai (who has great respect for civility and good manners, and rather less respect for anything less.)

    &#147;I am not young enough to know everything.&#148;
    -Oscar Wilde

    &#147;Always do right -- this will gratify some and astonish the rest.&#148;
    -Mark Twain
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    I am sending the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary a suggestion for a new verb: "to kauai". The definition would describe the new term as the logical exposition of an idea by which formerly misguided or cloudy thinking is dispelled; the exposition is marked not only by clarity but humour and erudition. Synonyms: "to shed light", "to elucidate".
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;The definition would describe the new term as the logical exposition of an idea by which formerly misguided or cloudy thinking is dispelled; the exposition is marked not only by clarity but humour and erudition. Synonyms: 'to shed light', 'to elucidate'."

    Thank you for this, autonomous. :-)

    I appreciate your creative and inventive mind, and the good humor in your posts. Your good-natured, friendly posts are a breath of fresh air in these groups.

    Thanks again, my friend. :-)

    -Kauai

    &#147;Fate chooses our relatives, we choose our friends.&#148;
    -Jacques Delille, 1738-1813
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Love those killer quotes, kauai!
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I'd like to get them installed in my wife's P5 as a gift (those leather seats are COLD in the winter!). Any recommendations?
  • waydewayde Member Posts: 198
    Hey mazdafun -
    I have leather in my P5 also & wanted to be warm during these long and cold MN winters. I chose to go the autostart route -- that way the engine and the entire car are warmed up & I don't have to walk out to do it :) Got it installed early November & I absolutely love it! Better than seat heaters IMO. My sister also got it installed on her Accord coupe (Dad has it on his GMC truck). AstroStart is the name of the unit I have - it's the highest recommended one around here & the installation is cool (I didn't do it, just read about it) - they have a central module that everything just "plugs" into... My car was done in ~3 hours.
    Anyway - just wanted to share my experience.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    In case you haven't seen the 2005 Auto issue of Consumer Reports, the Protege continues to rate as one of the best used cars. Here are some problem areas on which to keep an eye:

    2003: Body integrity
    2002: Brakes, body integrity
    2001: Brakes, body integrity & hardware, power equipment, electrical
    1997-2000: several problem areas but still highly recommended as a used car
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Hi everyone. Spring is just around the corner and the call of the "test drive" is not far behind. Let's go out and compare our P5 against the latest crop of offerings and post our comments here and answer the question: What it would take to push you over the edge to move away from the great P5?

    After testing the Mazda3 GT hatch automatic in January I would not be ready to abandon my 2002 P5 automatic. The model was seductive: stylish, well-appointed, well-priced, with interesting luxury features (as in the SP23). Compared to the P5, the engine was more powerful in a muted way; a fist in a velvet glove. The interior seems more confined; the trunk is not as spacious as one would expect in a hatchback. The quality of the plastic does not compare well with the P5; the leather seating looks more desirable (in general I avoid leather). The combination I'm looking for is a fuel-efficient 200hp (along the lines of Acura) well appointed hatchback with the reliability of a Protege.

    Next up: Mazda6 sport hatchback GS I4, followed by Mazda6 6 cyl., Acura RSX and TSX, Honda Accord Hybrid, Corolla SRX.

    Interested in opinions about Mazda's clutchless manual versus the traditional manual. Going for a manual appeals to me. I plan to take a few practice lessons before test driving some manuals.
  • pciskowskipciskowski Member Posts: 155
    Due to a severe lapse of judgement, I traded my '02 P5 for an '04 Camry last July (See post #7116). I have been miserable ever since. In my experience, the Camry is an overrated piece of garbage. I would say I got a lemon, but reading the Camry board suggests otherwise. I should have known not to buy something with "toy" in the name.

    I finally traded back for another '02 P5 today. My original one was red, which is still my favorite color, but I have been searching in vain for one for about five months. I got a black one, which is not a color I really like, but I can live with it. I'll take a black P5 over a red anything else any day.

    One weird thing-my old one was out of warranty, but this "new" one is certified, so I believe I am in better shape than I was before?!?

    So why didn't I get a 3? I like the looks of the P5 much better, and it was ~$8,000 to $10,000 cheaper. I (very) briefly considered a Kia Spectra5, but I figured why pay a new car price for a cheap imitation when I can have the real thing for much less.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Good to have you back, Philip! Black P5s still look much cooler than any color Camry and are more racy looking than the M3.

    p.s. how many miles on your second P5?
  • waydewayde Member Posts: 198
    Phillip - I did a very similar thing... but instead of a Camry, I bought the new body style 4Runner. Argh. It was a fine vehicle... it just lacked soul (the biggest thing)... and also was not "zoomy"... and I tired quickly of the gas station fillup prices :( I owned it a total of 9 months. I looked at all cars under 20k... but it quickly came down to a choice between the 3 and the P5. I drove both several times... As much as I like the look of the 3 and some of the cool features... the P5 just had a different feel that I liked much better. The price differential worked in my favor too... The 3 was 5-6K more & since I liked the P5 more it was a rather easy decision. I've now had my second P5 for 12 months. (First one was a white base... 2nd one is white loaded!)
    ZoomZoom!!
  • pciskowskipciskowski Member Posts: 155
    My second one has 44K miles on it. My old one had 57K when I got rid of it.

    For a black car the exterior really looks good. There are no chips in the paint, which I can hardly believe. My red one was all chipped up. It has one very small scratch on the rear passenger side.

    The interior looks practically new. There are two small nicks in the steering wheel, and that is it. Everything else is mint.

    The black color is really starting to grow on me. I think the metallic paint looks much different than a normal black car.

    It has Toyo Proxes TPT tires in the original size on it. Does anyone have any exprerience with these? How do they compare to the OEM Dunlops?
  • isseyvooisseyvoo Member Posts: 121
    We have the Proxes TPTs on our P5. Perform far better in adverse weather, a bit quieter. Very pleased, though they were quite expensive.
  • pciskowskipciskowski Member Posts: 155
    That is good to hear. I thought the Dunlops were bad in rain.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    You got yourself a great deal, Philip, not only on the P5 but also the tires. My independent tire dealer agrees with Isseyvoo's comment "Perform far better in adverse weather, a bit quieter ... quite expensive" and added "they are our best seller." The Toyo TPT warranty is great also, 60K miles (100K km)! The tire seller remarked that the Dunlop Sport 5000's don't seem to be available in Canada any longer, but I haven't verified this.

    I'm planning to post my comparative list of P5 replacement tires once I collect a little bit more data. So far, it looks like a big hit to the wallet is coming :(

    p.s. to keep your baby looking new you may want to get the correct touchup paint the next time you're driving by a Mazda dealer.
  • pciskowskipciskowski Member Posts: 155
    Should I keep these at 32 pounds pressure, or are they different than the Dunlops?

    I haven't tested it in the rain yet, but so far the tire seem great.
  • cdnp5cdnp5 Member Posts: 163
    Well, we are not there yet even after 145,000kms in 2.5 years but we keep looking. I drove the 3 and thought it was nice but it just didn't have the soul the P5 does. Plus my g/f thinks the P5 looks better anyway. Out next choice will be the 6-Wgn. The main reason is more space plus she doesn't like driving a manual. Plus it looks almost like the P5 but bigger.
    Other cars that we though about. Subie Outback Limited (we want a sunroof). But after finding out its $39,000 (Legacy Lmt is 37G) we lost interest.
    Passat TDI - for its long distance fuel sipping engine + space.

    If we could afford more, we would probably move up into the new Audi 2.0T Advant.

    Not too many other wagon choices out there.
  • jencjenc Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone help me out with trying to find a factory extended warranty for the protege5? I'm purchasing the protege5 (my first vehicle) this week from a mitsubishi dealership. I don't want to buy the extended warranty from them (since it is third party and I have heard it is a bigger pain to deal with). Do you know how I can go about buying a factory extended warranty?
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Hi Jen, welcome to Edmunds!
    The Mazda website lists the available plans but not whether it will cover used vehicles or what time/milegae restrictions may apply. The listing is here: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=shoppingToolsWarrantyMEPP- but your best bet would be to call Mazda Customer Service at 1-800-222-5500.

    kcram
    Host - Wagons
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    "Should I keep these at 32 pounds pressure, or are they different than the Dunlops?"

    Good question. It's my understanding that you follow the recommended setting for the vehicle which is the 32 PSI you quoted.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    I have heard claims about synthetic motor oil's improved lubrication and better protection of the engine that I am considering switching.

    A few questions:

    1. Has anyone changed from regular to synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil?

    2. Has anyone noticed/heard of any positive or negative effects of synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil in a Protege?

    3. Has anyone brought their own motor oil to the dealer?

    4. Does anyone care to recommend particular brands of synthetic or semi-synthetic oil?
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    Some thoughts for you, Autonomous, that may be of help:

    After breaking-in our new &#146;88 Mustang GT, I switched to Mobil 1 synthetic oil at around 4000 miles. I guesstimated that fuel economy improved one to two mpg at best, which, at the time, seemed to be sufficient to recoup the cost of the markedly more expensive oil, considering that the car got 18.5 mpg over its lifetime, running premium fuel. At the time, the Mobil 1 oil was about 4x the cost of regular oil. I&#146;m uncertain about today&#146;s costs, and how this might work out for you, assuming cost is an issue. (Note: I'm always leery of fuel economy figures, since so many factors come into play, but my records suggest the benefit I noted.)

    At around 40,000 miles, the engine had developed some serious oil leaks. I had known from reading, and also from someone who had substantial knowledge of the costs of running a large fleet of vehicles doing hard service (State Police cars), that the slick synthetic oils tended to leak at gaskets and seals. I took a chance we would not suffer from that problem. I lost the gamble; it was going to be expensive to get access to some of the leaking seals, one of which was a crankshaft seal.

    Perhaps manufacturers employ more effective seals today. I understand that the Corvette, and a number of other high performance cars, come from the factory filled with Mobil 1. They&#146;ve been doing that for many years, I believe.

    On one of our Hondas, some years back, I refilled the _transaxle_ with Mobil 1, seeking smoother shifting. That seemed to work out well, without any problems, but that car got traded in around 10K miles after being rear-ended at a traffic light. I took the insurance money and bought a new Probe GT. Maybe if I had kept that Honda longer, the transmission might have leaked. Who knows?

    And that&#146;s the end of my direct experience with synthetic oils. I haven&#146;t chosen to use them since.

    Synthetic oils _unquestionably_ reduce friction and resultant wear; there is abundant evidence substantiating this.

    However, the _real question_ is whether the _improvement_ over conventional oils (dino oils), has any practical value for the typical car owner.

    Durability of the lubricant is not an issue. Both dino and syn oils will last a very long time. Contaminants is the problem, independent of which type of oil one chooses, and it is _this_ which necessitates oil changes. So, there&#146;s no real benefit to syn oils in this regard, despite claims (probably true) for greater durability of synthetic oils. It's a moot point, since it&#146;s not sensible to use an oil for 25K+ miles in a car in normal service -- it gets too dirty and filled with acids, etc.

    Autocrossers regularly use synthetic oils in both their engines and transmissions. Finishing positions in autox are often mere hundredths of a second apart. For this unusual application, the slight reduction in frictional losses may well pay off.

    Road racers have clearly demonstrated the superior wear characteristics of syn oils, especially in the frequency of bearing replacements, for example.

    The thing is, for me, and maybe for you, too, I&#146;m never going to need to replace my connecting rod and crankshaft bearings, anyway. Not even if I kept the car to, say 120K miles, running it on dino oil. Yes, synthetic oil is better in many ways. But it&#146;s a moot point for me since I am unable to realize any benefit of the superior lubricant. Perhaps the same may be true for you, too.

    I don&#146;t see any practical benefit -- for me -- to use the 3x(?) more expensive syn oils, merely to realize a marginal increase in fuel economy. The wear issue might benefit some future owner, possibly, but not me. When I advertised my Mustang GT for private sale, not a single potential buyer was impressed with the Mobil 1 I&#146;d used. They just didn&#146;t care.

    And I&#146;d always be worrying about developing a nasty leak at the crankshaft, or at some other expensive-to-reach seal.

    We buy only new cars, and we&#146;ve never kept a car to even 70K miles. I have not seen any evidence that for our uses synthetic oils would benefit us. YMMV.

    I&#146;m no longer interested in using synthetic oils; they don&#146;t offer me enough to make it worthwhile for me.

    Lots of other folks are very happy with their choice to use synthetics, and even if it&#146;s only for their own peace of mind, protecting the machinery better, just in case they keep the car for a really long time, well . . . it works for them and that&#146;s good. Over the life of the car, it&#146;s not all that much more expensive when considering the total cost of ownership.

    If you choose to try synthetic oils, I don&#146;t know of any reason why you need to stick with them. That is, you can always return to regular dino oils if you wish. So, you might wish to try it and see for yourself if there&#146;s a difference which you appreciate. :-)

    Mobil 1 and Redline (I think?) are popular synthetics. The &#147;mixed&#148; dino/synthetic oils are of dubious value, probably more of a marketing ploy than anything useful. I&#146;d go with a name-brand, full synthetic, or stick with dino oils.

    Hope this is useful, my friend. :-)
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    >Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;Has anyone brought their own motor oil to the dealer?&#148;

    You might wish to do that if the dealer doesn&#146;t offer your preferred choice of oil such as Redline synthetic, for example. They might not, but I would expect them to charge you the full price for the oil change. It might still annoy them, despite making the extra profit by not using their own bulk oil. I don&#146;t know if it&#146;s a good idea to annoy them, though. . . :-)

    Unless you personally observe them pouring your own oil into your engine, how will you know they did? My guess is that they might consent to do this for you, but fill your engine with their bulk oil anyway, synthetic or not; it&#146;s faster and easier for them to fill your engine in one convenient whoosh from their pump connected to their bulk oil tank. Then one of the shop guys will take your bottled oil home with them!

    I reckon it&#146;s best not to tempt these folks. . . ;-)

    I thought of doing this myself in the past, but then I thought it might be akin to arriving at a restaurant with my own raw steak and asking the staff to prepare it for me. It&#146;s remarkable how many folks can&#146;t say &#147;No,&#148; but will agree to do as you request . . . and be angry. After all, when your food is served, how sure can you be . . . that the staff didn&#146;t spit in your soup?!

    Ah well. Just some thoughts, my friend. ;-)

    Here&#146;s a random humorous quote for you:

    &#147;A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.&#148;
    -Winston Churchill
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    >Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;... What it would take to push you over the edge to move away from the great P5?&#148;

    Would you disavow our friendship if I were to replace the P5 with a Miata? (I hope not. ;-)

    We&#146;re contemplating this very thing. Actually, I&#146;m not sure I wouldn&#146;t rather trade in the Si, but my wife thinks the P5 might be the better choice to trade in. Hmm. . .

    The Si could carry the kayaks and gear, too.

    If anyone&#146;s interested, my P5 has less than 15K miles on it, and is like new. (It even still smells like new. No children, no dogs, no smoking.) The Si is in superb condition, too, with about 45K miles on it.

    >Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;Interested in opinions about Mazda's clutchless manual versus the traditional manual.&#148;

    I haven&#146;t read about that. I assume it&#146;s not an F1-style, auto-manual, paddle shifter. What is it? Like a Porsche Tiptronic, maybe? (Still, that&#146;s an automatic, just with more control.)

    >Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;Going for a manual appeals to me. I plan to take a few practice lessons before test driving some manuals.&#148;

    You&#146;re unfamiliar with a manual gearbox?

    The driver of a YELLOW P5?!

    Oh, my goodness! We need to talk. ;-)

    You should be driving a manual, my friend! You&#146;ll love it! Never mind those slushboxes. . .

    -Kauai (who&#146;s recalling your wish to attend my driving school! ;-)
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    >You wrote:
    "Should I keep these at 32 pounds pressure, or are they different than the Dunlops?"

    If they are the same size, i.e. 195/50-16, then they contain the same volume of air as the original-sized tires, and the OEM tire pressure recommendation from the car manufacturer applies.

    That is NOT an optimum pressure, though. It is a compromise, biased, undoubtedly, towards ride comfort and minimum safety standards.

    Better performance can be achieved with HIGHER pressures. ("Never" go below the recommended pressures.)

    I run 37/35 F/R on my OEM Dunlops. (Yeah, it's harder-riding.)

    Do a search in this forum if you're interested in further thoughts on the matter. See the Tire Rack tire technical notes, the BFG website, and a wealth of other sites to learn more, if this interests you.

    BFG recommends 10 psi HIGHER tire pressures for running in the wet.

    -Kauai (who is pleased to see you back. Cars aren't just appliances, are they? :-)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
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  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Nothing like experience to temper naive ambition.

    The idea of switching to synthetic came from Kirk Robinson, an auto show host whose advice I've found helpful in the past. Your reference to a 'vette reminded me that he is also a part time racer, which may in part explain his synthetic recommendation. Leaky gaskets do not sound like fun for me, the non-mechanic, so I'll heed your sage advice, Kauai, and stick to dino.

    Glad to see you back, Kauai.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Kauai wrote: "I thought of doing this myself in the past, but then I thought it might be akin to arriving at a restaurant with my own raw steak and asking the staff to prepare it for me. It&#146;s remarkable how many folks can&#146;t say &#147;No,&#148; but will agree to do as you request . . . and be angry. After all, when your food is served, how sure can you be . . . that the staff didn&#146;t spit in your soup?!"

    Never thought of it that way; so if I've got the gist I shouldn't be surprised if I bring a T-bone that I'll get served a Salisbury steak.

    p.s. keep those quotes (or should that be "kuotes") coming!
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    After reading about life after the P5 from Derek (cdnp5) and Kauia I appreciate all the more what a feat Mazda accomplished in this car: on the one hand it attracts us for being a good hauler while on the other hand it draws out the undercover F1 racer in us. P5 = a hiking boot in which you can run a marathon.

    Derek said : "the (Mazda) 3 ... was nice but it just didn't have the soul the P5 does. Plus my g/f thinks the P5 looks better anyway. Out next choice will be the 6-Wgn. The main reason is more space plus she doesn't like driving a manual. Plus it looks almost like the P5 but bigger."
    I like the way you summed up the difference: the 3 lacks the soul of the 5. A colleague has the 6 Sport GT, a very sharp looking car with impressive cargo capability; the 6 Wagon must have a massive boot(cargo area)!

    Meanwhile, Kauia is contemplating replacing "the P5 with a Miata ... Actually, I&#146;m not sure I wouldn&#146;t rather trade in the Si, but my wife thinks the P5 might be the better choice to trade in. The SI could carry the kayaks and gear, too."

    The Miata sounds/looks/feels like a fabulous car, especially as a second car; its only drawback is having to share the driving. Are you going whole hog and contemplating the Mazdaspeed Miata?
  • kauai215kauai215 Member Posts: 190
    >Autonomous wrote:
    &#147;Are you going whole hog and contemplating the Mazdaspeed Miata?&#148;

    Yes. But, we&#146;re only in the &#147;contemplation phase&#148; at the moment. Both of our current cars, Civic Si and Protege5, are niche cars, and we may not be able to sell or trade them for enough to make a good deal, though. We&#146;ll see how it goes. As appealing as the Miata is, it would be no hardship to stick with our current cars longer; I&#146;m not keen on getting rid of the P5.

    On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
    -from Boswell's Life of Johnson
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I switched to synthetic in my '89 323LX at around 40k miles. It ran on synthetic still when I sold it at 142k miles. No oil leaks at all. Cold starts were noticeably smoother (especially at temps well below freezing, which occur way too frequently around here for my liking). Draining during the winter goes a lot faster too, and you don't have to warm the engine oil up first (at the temperatures I'll change oil at, anyway).

    I switched both my '99 Pro LX and my wife's '03 P5 to synthetic as soon as I could (first oil change on my car, second on hers as I couldn't get the factory-installed filter off - it was on too tightly!). My Pro is at 60k miles. Here is around 37k miles. Neither has developed leaks.

    We keep our vehicles for well over a decade (14 years for my 323, 13 for her Saturn SL2), and I had a good experience with my 323. On the other hand, her Saturn started slurping oil at about a quart/1000 miles sometime after she surpassed 60k miles on it. From what I've read, it's typical of Saturn engines. There were no leaks I could find, so I figure it was due to wear of the piston rings. That thing ran on regular oil its entire life (for sure, I wasn't going to feed it a quart of synthetic every 1000 miles!).
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    The crossover between the Mazda and Subaru chats continues! We're getting a good core group of chatters, so be sure to stop in tonight and say hello to the gang.

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  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    "I switched to synthetic in my '89 323LX at around 40k miles... (until) 142k miles. No oil leaks at all. Cold starts were noticeably smoother (especially at temps well below freezing, which occur way too frequently around here for my liking). Draining during the winter goes a lot faster too, and you don't have to warm the engine oil up first (at the temperatures I'll change oil at, anyway)."

    Thanks for the details, Chow-chi.

    Besides the easier cold starts and quicker draining did you experience any other benefits of synthetic? For example, is there any change to performance or did a mechanic ever tell you that your engine is exceptionally better preserved than most engines of that age/mileage. In my case "long-term" use of my Pro5 will likely not exceed 150K km (90K miles) before I sell/give it away.

    Would using synthetic exclusively during the winter make sense?

    I wonder if the benefits of synthetic are especially apparent in racing machines and the ilk rather than daily drivers?

    p.s. my previous car used regular oil and is still chugging at 150K km for a friend who had inherited it.
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    Interesting. I traded my P5 for a Subie Outback 2.5i Wagon a couple months ago. The P5 was a great car and I got an incredibly deal when I bought it. However, we moved shortly after we bought it and my daily commute changed to 70 mph, interstate, rush hour traffic that I didn't feel comfortable with in the P5. I got a good trade on the P5, bought a "stripped" (but nicely equipted as std.) Outback. Both are great cars, but the Subie suits me better. I know the Outbacks can get pricey, but a good deal on a base isn't too bad.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Yeah, I think you'd notice more of a difference in extreme use, like racing (high RPMs at elevated temperatures for prolonged periods). I think synthetic was developed for racing engines as it doesn't break down and form sludge as quickly under those conditions.

    Using synthetic just for winter months might make more financial sense. Very hot environments also might benefit as synthetic doesn't flow out from between parts as readily in hot environments, though I think most areas in the US don't see 100F+ temps.

    I do notice less variation in my engine's willingness to rev or perform between old and fresh oil for synthetic as I did for non-synthetic oil. I probably eke out another 1mpg on synthetic, so it's not likely going to make too much difference in cost that way.

    I did get comments on how well my 323's engine performed for its age (I do recall a mechanic comment on how little wear he found inside the engine during the 120k service). In fact, I got lots of positive comments about the 323 overall, given its age and mileage, but regular maintenance and little amounts of abuse account for that. Frequent changes with regular oil probably would have achieved similar results. I just prefered the cold-start performance of the synthetic. I did notice a larger 2mpg increase with the synthetic in the 323 v. my Protege.
  • nickg4bruinsnickg4bruins Member Posts: 12
    Well I have 30,000 miles on my '03 P5 and my left rear caliper is sticking. The squeel is pretty unbearable after just a few minutes, and when I come to a stop the whole wheel (steel rim for my winter tires) is very hot. I haven't lubed the caliper pins because on my previous tire changeovers there was no sign of any pad wear (bad excuse i know). I had to order the new pads and rotors and should be here tomorrow. My question is, are the slider pins the ones underneath the black plastic covers on the inside of the caliper? I have taken the two bolts off holding the caliper to the car, but don't seem to see where the pins are. Please help fast!!!
  • protojasonprotojason Member Posts: 13
    Well, I finally purchased new tires for my protege5. Replaced at 29,337 miles. I chose Kumho ecsta ASX in 195-50r-16 (stock size from tire rack.com, 2 day delivery...great site!)

    Too early to give much of a review, but the dunlops had to go...getting outright scary in the rain.

    Wierd thing is, I kept them rotated every 5k miles, guys at NTB say they almost bald, should replace etc etc, and based on everyone elses numbers on here I figured I got average wear. Well, one day, was washing my car, noticed only 2 lugnuts holding my right rear wheel on....this is about a week after NTB did the job for me...so I took one off the left rear, swapped it to the right rear so I would at least have 3 outta 5..., (i subsequently found 2 more lugnuts on different wheels only finger tight) of course, the shop denies any wrong doing.

    Fast forward to today, a different place, 64 bucks for mount/balance/stems/disposal fees. So I drive out towards work on my new tires, get there early, decide I'd better check out those lug nut!

    Found two that were loose. And tire pressures were all off...37psi,34psi,40psi,39psi, had to correct 'em to 32 all around.

    Oh, and I had the guy at new shop check tread wear on the dunlops...said i had 6/32 left...ie you still have half the tread left. I just didnt feel confident in the rain at all anymore, so I do not lament buying new tires even if they said I had half the tread left. Who to believe? The "their practically bald!" guy, or "half the tire left"?

    Anyhow, moral of the story, dont assume the pro's offer flawless service, you owe it to yourself to do your own check over. I wager that repetitive motions breed mediocrity on the mechanics part.

    Jason
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    ... new tires for my protege5. Replaced at 29,337 miles. I chose Kumho ecsta ASX in 195-50r-16 ... dunlops had to go... scary in the rain
    Congrats, Jason! The ASX sound like a super deal: W rated and cheaper than the stock Dunlops.

    washing my car, noticed only 2 lugnuts holding my right rear wheel ... drive out towards work on my new tires, get there early, decide I'd better check out those lug nut! ... Found two that were loose. And tire pressures were all off...37psi,34psi,40psi,39psi, had to correct 'em to 32 all around.
    It sounds like you may have a serious problem if you lost lug nuts. Many garages (and dealerships) save time by installing lugnuts with powertools instead of using hand torque wrenches. In effect, it rams the lugnuts onto the wheels, sometimes stripping the threads or sometimes under tightening the lugnuts (they appear tight but are not tight enough). It just has to happen once and your nuts :surprise: are done. The answer: 1) insist that the garage use a torque wrench everytime they remove your wheels; 2) buy your own torque wrench (you can keep it forever and a decent one is not that expensive, C$90) with the socket (I use a 20 mm socket) for your lugnuts if you don't already own one. Once you have your own torque wrench you can easily check whether the nuts are securely fastened; it takes a minute to do the whole car! The setting for the wrench is in the manual reference section. If you drive with less than all the lug nuts, you are stressing the remaining ones and they could end up stripping their threads. If I had a missing pair of lugnuts I would bring in my car asap to a trusted garage (or dealer) to have them check all the wheel bolts and the associated lugnuts just to be sure.

    Regarding tire pressures, you can set them around 32, if you want a slightly stiffer ride (bumps galore!) then raise the pressure; I keep mine at the "kauai levels" (another forum member here) at about 34 in front and 36 in back. I find this gives me a ride that suits me better than the average 32.
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