Jeep Wrangler

spyrodragon · May 2001

Those of you wondering what happens with the front sway bar disconnected, check this out.

Now that's FLEXY!

sfjeeps · May 2001

The current production Jeep is very reliable. The current fuel injection system has a very good track record and the On Board Diagnostics system (OBDII) is one of the best out there. If you compare to what was available in the mid '80s to present, you will find that many things has been improved. With the current fuel injection system in the Jeeps they are much more fuel efficent, have fewer parts in the system (less parts to break) and the computer has so many parameters, it adjusts itself for everything. I've had many Jeep owners tell me all they ever do for mainteniance is change the oil, filters and once in a while the spark plugs, other then that, pump gas and go. The old Jeeps and even the old cars can not compare to the new Jeeps of today.

tonkadave · May 2001

You have just about every conceavable accessory on that Jeep. Im glad you kept the Canyon Wheels. Looks real good.

goducks1 · May 2001

Wranglers seem to be getting pretty reliable since the mid-90s. My '98 has only had one problem since I've gotten it, a gauge problem that was promptly fixed under warranty. The new Grand Cherokees are another story altogether, and DC has a lot riding on the new Liberty, esp. given the drivetrain problems of the Grand Cherokee.

I was taking a nap yesterday and missed the chat. Whoops! in response to twylie, the "who has the best vehicle" chat was chaos, too many people talking at once. Lotta people thought ultra-reliable vehicles were best but I pointed out that Toyos and Hondas are just so BLAND.

tsjay · May 2001

Hey, nkelly! Are you finding the info you need in here?

Hope so, but if you need a specific question answered, feel free to post it.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · May 2001

Glad to hear things are progressing with your Jeep. I don't see how you can wait that long to pick it up, but I guess you don't have much choice, being that far away.

Keep in touch, and thanks for your service to our country. I appreciate our servicemen and women, and especially those of you who serve overseas. I know you must get lonely for the Good Old USA.

Take care

tsjay

Have you huggged your Jeep today?

aaabbb · May 2001

Hi folks,

I am thinking about getting a wrangler. Anyone please give me some idea on how bad a soft top is for winter. I live in Boston. Winter here is rough. I see very few soft tops in the winter.

Thanks

wheelsdown · May 2001

I live in the Chicago area. My 2000 TJ has two winters with a soft top. Worst temperature I have had it out in is -5 F. Took it only a few minutes to get the inside temp up. Temps down to 20 F or so are not a problem. Most people who do not have one think soft tops are drafty. If you keep everything zipped tight, they are not. You can actually see the top balloon a little when the blower is on. The soft top is nice in the summer, it only takes about five minutes to take down, about 10 minutes to put back up (the zippers take a little while to get started). Also, you have it with you if you get caught in the rain. If I had plenty of money, I would probably get a hard top for the winter, it is quieter, I'm not sure how much warmer. Someone with both tops needs to speak up.

tsjay · May 2001

About time we heard something from you, Old Timer!

Where you been?

I think with the winds in the Windy City, your winters are about as tough a test for the soft top as just about anywhere.

I would think that the soft top, especially the improved soft tops on the 2001's, would have better insulation than the hard top. There is no insulation with the hard top- just a solid plastic shell.

I wish I had gotten the soft top!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · May 2001

Is $20,000 a fare price for a 6 cyl, dana 44 rear end, hard top, doors with windows that roll down and tilt stearing?

tsjay · May 2001

Hi! Sounds like you are getting serious!

It would be impossible to answere your question about the deal without knowing the invoice cost of that particular Jeep.

Make them show you the invoice, and DO NOT pay more than $200.00 over invoice. I'm not even talking about the rebate, either. That is factory to YOU and costs the dealer nothing. So, you should get the Jeep for $200.00 over invoice and STILL get the rebate, which would effectively mean that you buy at $300.00 UNDER invoice.

Nkelly1, there are a few people that have even bought AT invoice, but $200.00 over is very common. That's why I say that you shouldn't pay more than that.

Don't be bashful. Tell them you want to see the invoice. That's the way it's done now a days.

Invoice on my Thelma Jane was $21,883.00, and I paid $200.00 over that, plus tax, license, and the "customer service fee," which is an administrative fee that is commonly charged by dealers.

Have you been to Thelma's web page? I go into some detail there about my buying experience, and there is a copy of the RETAIL price with all the options. I have not yet posted the INVOICE on Thelma on her web page, but the retail price was $23,870.00, and the invoice price was $21,883.00.

Hope this helps. And I hope you find a good deal.

Nkelly1, you WILL NOT be disappointed with your Jeep if you are looking for FUN! They are totally impractical, but they are FUN!

Feel free to email me. My email address is in my profile.

http://members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

Good luck

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · May 2001

So far it all "sounds" ok, I was quoted $17,500 for the basic 6 cyl. What I want will have to ordered though. I am going to check out some dealers (and invoices) today.

I have "thrashed" around in the woods with everything from a old dodge dart to my old 67 truck (took my van hunting last year).

So doing it in a jeep will be a new one. At 6'4" and 280 lbs I have some conserns about fitting into it in the first place.

Leg room seems to be more of an issue than head room.So I love the way the tone changes when I tell them "if I don't fit.. the deal is off".

saharanut · May 2001

Welcome to the board...
I agree with tsjay..look at the invoice..
they usually have no problem showing you..
one dealer gave me a copy of it..
then I usually ask for a "total off the lot" price. the best offer ive received was $50.00 over invoice.
That was for a 60th anniversary Extreme Edition
invoice was for $24,032.00 price was 24,082.00

Off the lot price was $24,911.27

Again welcome to to the board..Keep us posted..

Snut
Terry

tsjay · May 2001

You one big Dude! I ain't exactly a midget at 6'-0" and 220 lbs. I have plenty of room, so maybe you would still fit.

I had a guy at work go to lunch with me a few times in Thelma Jane, and he fit into the passenger seat ok. He was at least as tall as I am and has to weigh at least as much as you do.

If you don't mind my asking, where do you live?

I am in western Ky.

Keep us posted on your progress.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · May 2001

Tell me I don't have my priorities in order. The grass hasn't been mowed in two weeks, but I have washed Thelma Jane and taken her top and doors off today.

I guess I'll start on the stupid yard now, but I would rather load up Ross Allen and go for a cruise. (I posted a pic of Ross on the Owners Gallery board just now)

It may just be my imagination, or maybe I have learned a little better technique, but the top didn't seem to be as hard to handle today.

Let's have some posting this weekend! It was too quiet in here last weekend.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · May 2001

I went to the dealer, aren't many in this area, and looked at the wranglers. I was pretty much convinced I wasn't going to fit, but I climbed in anyway. It fit like a glove, unbelievable.

Next I crawled under it too take a look-see, plenty of room there too. For at least an hour I tried to find something wrong with it (I am good at this), I couldn't. So the next thing to do was drive it.

Considering I am looking eyeball to eyeball at 50 I am not in the mood to drive something that handles like an APC.

The test drive was unbelievable. We went down roads I normally would have gotten out and walked down, this thing trotted down this obstacle course like it was pulling into a driveway.

Now we were on a one lane, washboard, road and I was instructed to take it up to 25 mph. This road looked a little nasty, but what the hell it was his jeep. So I told my sweetie to hang on, looked in the rearview mirror at salesman (grinned) and mashed on it. Considering what condition the "road was in this thing was giving us a very smooth ride. The salesman, in the back seat, was not slamming into the roof, he was just sitting there bouncing a little. So I am not sure what the term "rides like a jeep" means.

We were on a one-lane dirt road, so I decided to turn around. With very little effort I had it heading the way we came. We spent another half an hour driving through ruts at least 12" deep over rocks (the size of basket balls) beds. For hunting, camping and prospecting this thing was perfect.

What struck me was that it would be just as comfortable on a long trip. I couldn't believe how well it fit. With the drivers window rolled up the shoulder room is close, but nothing I can't live with. It fits better than most cars I have sat in.

The seat fit very well (didn't hit my head once), this is the first time, in a long time, since I had a seat that I did not have tilt so far back I was laying down, to drive it.

It's quieter than our ('89) trooper and my old '67 ford truck, rides better than both of them.

So there I was back at the lot trying to find something wrong with it. There are more practical vehicles out there, but none of them fit. $40,000.00 for a truck? Can't do it.

So I bought it, what the hell. Last time I did something like this was in 1974, when I bought my shovelhead... still have it.

tsjay · May 2001

CONGRATULATIONS! Welcome to the world of Jeeps!

Now you can't get away with this lack of details! Tell us all the goodies about your new Jeep. Post some pics, if possible. You see, all of us in here get excited when someone gets a Jeep, and we like to know all the particulars.

If you would be so kind, please post in Meet the Members and tell us about yourself and about the new Jeep.

If you don't mind sharing the info, how much over invoice did you have to pay? It is by telling about the deals we get that we can help others know what they should expect to pay. I found this info invaluable when I bought Thelma Jane.

I am happy for you, Mr. Nkelly1! I hope you will be a regular poster in here.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today? (I'll bet you have)

saharanut · May 2001

The angels are singing..
Another Jeep owner...
You did it...I've sure you will love your new TJ
Now get Tsjay to help you pick out a name..
All wranglers HAVE to have a name..
Now go post everything on the meet the members section..
We all love to read it...

Welcome to the club

ps..I know Tsjay...it my turn...

take care
Snut

yellowman · May 2001

Hey all

Well, today was the day I finally tried taking the top and doors off. Tsjay, thanks again for your information on the tools - I went back and found your post, printed it, and took it with me to the auto parts store to get what I needed. Thanks also for the warnings about the weight of the doors - no problems with them banging into anything - I think I was overcompensating. I did have one casualty (other than the expected scraping of paint off the door nut)...When we set the hard top down on a thick blanket on the ground next to the Jeep, the rear window (which was in the "up" position) came down on my right front fender and made a 3-4 inch scratch :-( It's not all that noticable, and I'm sure most wouldn't notice it unless I pointed it out. Anyway, driving around was a blast. Took my parents to get some frozen yogurt and had fun tooling around. Showed a buddy of mine, too. I only drove about 15 miles or so with the top off, then it was getting late and I had to put the top back on. I was hoping I'd be able to store the hardtop in my parents backyard, but it won't fit through the side gates, so...Now I have nowhere to store the hard top. But don't worry, I'll figure out some way to get that thing off and stored somewhere so I can take it off for a couple days every now and again. And tsjay, I now know what you mean about the softtop. I'm still not ready to say I wish I had opted for that instead of the hard top, BUT...I can definitely see how it would be nice to drive around topless and not worry about it starting to rain. I have the full cover now, but that's no good if I have to drive in the rain with no top. After today I'm thinking of finding a friend's garage to store the hard top for a week or so this summer and drive around topless when I know it won't rain.

One other observation. When I put the top back on...My dad and I had the darndest time figuring out those two front latches - there are two parts to them, one that fits in the holes in the windshield and one that latches down over the filled holes. Well, when we put the top back on, the part that fits in the holes got tucked behind the rubber seal atop the windshield and we couldn't see it. We kept trying to close the latches and they didn't want to close. Finally we figured it out - I just hope all our futzing with it didn't damage anything. It looks fine now, but I'm a little nervous about the next time it rains :-o Otherwise everything went pretty smoothly, and I bet I could do it next time in 10-15 minutes. Just gotta buy those QuickMirrors from Quadratec now!

yellowman

tsjay · May 2001

Thanks for the details on your Jeep. Sienna with a black top is AWESOME! We have another guy in the group with that combo, a guy that goes by tjy. He is in Maryland.

I only suggested that you post in Meet the Members for your introduction, because posts here on the main board get very hard to find after a while, since new ones are being added all the time.

If someone wanted to check out the details on your Jeep, and if you posted that info here, it would be very hard to find later.

This is the place to do your regular posting, Ned. I just thought we ought to take advantage of the Meet the Members for our introductory stuff.

Glad you are with us! Keep posting. The more the merrier! Keep us up to date with how that Jeep is doing.

You gonna give him/her a name?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · May 2001

Congratulations on your first topless/doorless experience. Ain't it GREAT?

Sorry to hear about your scratch. Hope it is just a minor one, and it sounds like it was.

Not an easy job, even for two people, is it? That top and those doors are HEAVY!

I have Thelma's top and doors off again, and it's time to go to work. It looks like it could rain any minute: wish me luck!

It is supposed to clear off this afternoon, so if I can just make it the 27 miles to work without getting wet, I should be ok.

Did you get some door bags from Qtec? I really like mine, and they sure seem like they ought to prevent any damage to the doors while they are being stored. They were $99.95, if I remember correctly, for the pair. Well worth it for the protection they afford.

Gotta go to work. I hope I can steer ok with my fingers crossed.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

pizzadude · May 2001

Hey Tonkadave...

I looked up your account to email you but it didn't show an email address. We should try to plan something sometime....Is Furnace Hills large enough to spend a couple hours on or is it just a small area and a couple short roads? I haven't been able to find it yet either...I've been looking on some maps to try to find it, but no luck.

Talk to you later...
-pizzadude

pizzadude · May 2001

Hey Spyrodragon...

Is that your Jeep pic that you posted showing the flex with sway bars disc'd?? That is pretty wild...If that is your jeep then i guess that is a good example of what a a TeraFlex lift can do for you....did you have to put on brak line extensions or just relocate the stock ones?

later on...

-pizzadude

madman390 · May 2001

Well, I finally had time to compile the checklist. We had a minor typhoon today which basically shut down the base. Except for PT this morning, I had the entire day off.

I don't have a website yet (or my Jeep!) so I can't post this thing anywhere. If one of you with a website would like to post this, please let me know. I'll email it to you.

I'd like to have this reviewed by some of you who already have a Jeep, as some of the items refer to the gauges, radio, etc.

Only 78 days to go!

Madman

madman390 · May 2001

Just checked on the status of my Jeep. According to DC, it is in JS status (in storage). So it looks like it's been finished. Now I have to play the waiting game.

Actually, the waiting isn't too bad. I'm living vicariously through all of you!

As long as no one else is driving MY JEEP, I'll be happy.

Madman

spyrodragon · May 2001

I wish that was my jeep! I just posted that because during the chat thursday night alot of people were asking about the sway bar being disconnected and that was the best pic I could find of a jeep flexing. Go check out the members section to see what my jeep looks like. That's what a 3" teraflex and 33's looks like, that other guy was running 5.5" lift and 2" spacer with 35" tires. Plus he's got alota goodies that I want!

tonkadave · May 2001

My email is tonkadave@aol.com. The furnace Hills encompass several State Game Lands. All together its probably about 15000 acres plus a Boy Scout Camp attached with about 3000 acres. Elevations are between 400 and 1500 feet. Since its a game lands we would have to stay on the trails. One Trail leads to the Cornwall Fire Tower, which will give a great view on a clear day. Also part of Middle Creek Wildlife Management Area off route 897. Route 501 runs right through the center of this area as well. Theres also a good spot in Cecil County Maryland with some good Trails. Give me an email and we will set something up.

saharanut · May 2001

love for all of you to check out my jeep web site.

tsjay & tonkadave have lookes at it..

I also have a chat board on it.

maybe we can chat on it..instead of once a week here..

madman...please email your checklist to me..

i can put it on my site

http://www.terrysjeeppage.homestead.com/index.html

sign my guestbook tell me what ya think

Snut

Terry

tsjay · May 2001

There was no rain after all this AM, and it cleared off real nice this afternoon. It was a beautiful, wonderful, topless/doorless day!

The trip home from work was just about the best ever top down drive I've had. The temperature was PERFECT!

I filled Thelma up after work, and she got 18.0 MPG this time. The two previous tanks were 19.7 and 18.1. I'm completely happy with that kind of mileage!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

slpmom · May 2001

we have had a lot of fun so far this spring with the top off, although we haven't taken the doors off yet. my 17 yr old daughter and i took her on a topless road trip 1 1/2 hours last week. then she wanted to do it again a few days later with a 3rd person. daughter got the back seat. she didn't think that it was quite so much fun being that close to the trucks at 70mph on the highway. we stopped about 25 miles into the trip and put the top back up. luckily it only takes a few minutes!!! lesson is that it may not be safe to have passengers in the back seats on highways. not a lot of protection. glad that she learned it that way and i won't have to deal with it when she wants to road trip with a group of her friends!

sasquatch_2000 · May 2001

I wouldn't want my topless daughter that close to trucks at ANY speed!

Yeah, just what you need is her and her friends on a topless road trip. NOT!

erickpl · May 2001

Hello!

I am already the proud owner of a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (Patriot Blue) with everything. Well after a year and a half of ownership, I want to get a Wrangler to park next to it. I am not sure I will be able to get a new one, so I'm looking at used ones.

My question is this: What in particular do I need to look for when looking at used Wranglers? Are there any particular model years to stay away from or that I should look at? What kind of wear and tear should I expect to see on a good vs worn out Wrangler.

I'd like to get some ideas of which is the better way to go, hard or soft top. My wife has declared no to the soft doors, and with kids, I can understand that. And the important question: What color combinations (body/top) are the best?

Paul

sasquatch_2000 · May 2001

color: whatever YOU like best (or your wife!)

cloth doors: Why the objection? Do you let your kids run around the car with scissors or knives, or do you keep them strapped in?

other than those 2 comments, I am looking for a new or used 4x4 as well.

saharagal · May 2001

I'm in the market for a Sahara, and am wondering if people are getting better deals than $100 or $200 above invoice. I spoke with a dealer who said they're selling their Wranglers for around $200 under invoice right now. Unfortunately, that particular dealer doesn't have the color I want.

I'm wondering if most dealers are trying to move the 2001's to make room for the 2002's. Anyone bought one recently?? I'd like to know how far they'll go! I'm in the Atlanta area.

Thanks for your help!

Can't wait to hug my Jeep!

kwilson4 · May 2001

I throw this out to anyone who has an opinion: What brand oil do you use in your Jeep and why? I know that everyone has their own preference when it comes to oil, but if you have a justifiable reason for one brand in particular, I would like to hear it. Also, does changing brands of oil from time to time have a negative effect on your engine?

tsjay · May 2001

There are some very good reasons to consider a new Wrangler rather than a used one, if there is any way possible to handle it financially.

The Wranglers are not and have not been selling well, and the dealers are letting them go for $200 over invoice and sometimes even selling them at invoice.

There is a $500 factory to buyer rebate which can bring your effective purchase price to $300 or more below invoice.

If you want an automatic transmission, they are free now. I would rather have the five speed, even with the automatic being free.

Since used Jeeps hold their value so well, and considering what I have told you about new ones, it might make more sense to go with a new one rather than with a late model used one.

I have only been a Jeep owner for about five months, so I can't help you much as far as the used ones. I do know that you would do well to get at least a '97 model or newer. These are the TJ's and have a much better suspension system than the YJ's, which were the previous models. The TJ's have coil springs rather than leaf springs, and the ride is MUCH better. The headlights are round on the TJ's instead of rectangular like the YJ's.

One very important thing that I have learned the hard way is that a soft top is the way to go. I bought the hard top only, and I regret it. A Jeep is only enjoyed to its fullest when the top is down or off. I have taken the hard top off three times this spring, but had to put it back on the first two times because of rain in the forecast.

While it's true that the hard top can be taken off, it is NOT an easy job and requires two people. I also take the doors off, since I have the full metal doors, which you have to have with the hard top. Topless and doorless is a BLAST!

Check out my Thelma Jane and my buying experience in Thelma's web page.

http://members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tonkadave · May 2001

I stopped worrying about brands of oil several years ago when I toured a local refinery. They showed us the oil Filling line. They would change from one brand of oil container to another and the same oil never stopped coming out! And I mean all brands were there. I think its more important to look at the specs and type of oil you use. Like Conventional VS. Synthetic. or like 5w30 vs. 0w30. Most people who are using Synthetic let their engine break in on conventional oil for the first 4000 to 5000 miles. Which is what I plan to do.

drcsf · May 2001

I would look at 97's, 98's or 99's if you can afford it. In 1997 the Wrangler was redesigned to it's current version. Besides the obvious return to round headlights, the interior was redone to be more carlike with air bags and most importantly, the suspension was completely changed from leaf springs (antique design) to coils (like your Cherokee). Much better ride and less chance of rollover were the result. Since then there have only been small improvements. The 4 cyl is more common and cheaper but the automatic (3 speed) transmission with that engine is slow. Drive it first but for me, I'd only get a 5speed with the 4cyl, an auto or manual with the 6 cyl. The hardtop is quiet but very cumbersome to take on and off as others here will tell you. Our Wrangler is also a secondary vehicle and being able to take the softop up or down any time is what makes the Wrangler so much fun. We have A/C in ours and it works well. The half/soft doors are of equal height to the back seat of the Wrangler with the top down. So if you put your kids in the back with the top off there is equal exposure as the half/soft doors in the front. With the top up the only protection in the back is the soft windows, same as the front. Full metal doors in the front, which we have, only give more protection in the front. I am comfortable with my kids seatbelted in the back but my kids are 11 and 6. I can't tell you about wear and tear or colors but I do know Wranglers hold their value better than almost any vehicle, so don't be surprised if a used one costs close to what a new one goes for. Sorry this was so long. Good Luck. Craig

tsjay · May 2001

I have used Mobil 1 full synthetic oil in all of my vehicles after the first 5K miles on the engine.

My first experience with it sold me on it, and I have used it ever since.

I had a '94 Z28 Camaro that was making a fair amount of noise on cold starts, but when I switched it to Mobil 1, the cold starts were less noisy and the noise stopped sooner.

I also got one mile per gallon better gas mileage. ( I am a nut about checking gas mileage. I check it on EVERY fill up, so when I say I got one mile per gallon better mileage, I am talking over the long run, not just once or twice.)

That's what got me started on Mobil 1.

Since I do almost all highway driving and very few short trips, I go five thousand miles between changes with the synthetic oil, compared to three thousand with regular oil. This offsets the cost of the Mobil 1 oil.

Other full synthetics may be just as good as Mobil 1, but that's the one that I have experience with.

I do like to break in an engine on regular oil, and then start on Mobil 1 at 5K miles. May be silly, but I am afraid that the Mobil 1 lubricates too well and might prevent some of the "wearing in" of moving parts.

Just Old Tsjay's two cents worth.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · May 2001

I used to use Torch(up)oil after the break in.
What is in Mobil 1? Is this better than say Slick 50? What do you use in your tarns and rear end?

How about spark plugs.. any better than the others for the jeep? I just hit 300 i. so I have a little while yet.

tsjay · May 2001

Mobil 1 is full synthetic motor oil. It is NOT an additive like Slick 50 or any of those products that you add to the oil in your crankcase. I have never used any of those products, and they are not recommended by the factory. I believe it says that they can void your warranty.

I'm running Mobil 1 10W-30 in Thelma Jane.

So far I haven't had to put anything in the transmission or rear end, but when the time comes, I will just let the Jeep dealer put the regular Mopar stuff in them.

There are other brands of full synthetic oil, and they may be just as good as Mobil 1, I just don't have any experience with them.

How's it going with that new Jeep? Having a ton of fun with it, I'll bet.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · May 2001

Welcome, and good luck in your Jeep shopping!

I am not aware of any further rebates on the Wranglers, and I don't expect that there will be.

From all that I can gather, even this $500 rebate and free auto transmission are very out of character for DC. They usually don't give ANY incentives on Wranglers, even on left-over Jeeps from the previous model year.

I've always wondered how they sell those left-over Jeeps without any incentives, since a person could get the current model for the same price. The dealers that I asked said that they don't have a problem selling them.

Go figure.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

gpvs · May 2001

What have you guys been paying for your jeep? I have a buddy here that wants to get one soon, he wants the sport with hardtop, ac . . .can't remember the rest of his wants.

saharanut · May 2001

Thanx for signing my guestbook..
right now the incintives are the $500 or 1.9
3.9 or 4.9 financing..
the best offer I have gotten was for a 60th anniversary extreme edition it was $50 over invoice.
If you are looking I suggest to go to a 5 star dealer. They seem to be willing to deal with you more.
Getting a good deal is realtive..i guess its according to what options you want.
When you get an offer ...ask for the invoice..
my dealers even gave me a copy of it.
then ask for an "off the Lot price"
that will be your total price if you bought it.
That way you will see any hidden charges..
Welcome to the board..join us here for chat on thursday nights..

keep us posted

Snut
Terry

goducks1 · May 2001

Tell your friend that a good price for a Wrangler Sport is anywhere from invoice to $200 over invoice, NOT including any available rebates. The shipping fee is non-negotiable. He may get stuck with some advertising fees if he lives in an urban area. Again, any price specifics are impossible w/o a list of the options, and if he is going to drop over $20k on a new vehicle he would be well advised to print out the pricing lists on this website and add the numbers himself.

I am NOT trying to be mean about this. There is a very good reason why you need to do this yourself. Anyone can post a list of options they want up here and the regulars can do the math for you, but when you walk into the dealership you had better understand how those numbers came to be. If you do not, the salespeople will make mincemeat out of you. Salespeople will try to argue from sticker, and this puts you at a disadvantage AND wastes your time.

Anyone wanting to buy a car need to know two basic things: what the invoice prices are for the vehicle and all the desired options, and how much you can reasonably expect to get over that invoice price. We can help you out with #2. New and newly-redesigned models are generally hard to get for near-invoice: witness the PT Cruiser. The Wrangler was last redesigned in 1997, so there is no problem there. After you get done settling on how much over invoice is reasonable, subtract the available rebates and add any taxes, fees etc. Then you are done.

I write all this from personal experience. When I bought my Wrangler in '98, dealer #1 refused to do anything but negotiate from sticker. I was naive and wasted 2 hrs with a salesman/manager team playing "good cop / bad cop", then walked out in the middle of negotiations. I went online and learned from this website, then went to dealer #2. We negotiated for 10 minutes from invoice, and agreed on $200 over. We then subtracted a $400 rebate that was available, added fees, and the deal was done.

Which would your friend rather do? If he wants to get a Jeep for as low a price as possible, then he needs to put in the time. Otherwise, he can just pay sticker like so many people do. There aren't any shortcuts. If you would like to save a few thousand dollars, then do the work.

gpvs · May 2001

Thanks for the advice. I'll let him know. He's actually priced up the vehicle with his options.

sasquatch_2000 · May 2001

I have a friend who had a Ford SVO Mustang (turbo).

He put in the cheapest Walmart oil he could find. Whatever he saw on sale, he bought a couple cases of it.

Oil is oil. It is a lubricant, and also traps contaminants.

He would change his oil frequently, which is important, because oil can break down (and synthetics do this less) and oil also traps bad stuff in there. Synthetic oil will not break down as easily as regular oil, but it still gets contaminated. In which case you still need to change it often, in which case you are throwing away oil which is contaminated, but not broken down. In which case, you are throwing away money.

Mobil 1 is fine (the best?), but I think it is overkill.

If you are paranoid, stick to a name brand regular oil.

Whatever you do, stay away from the Jiffylube type places. They hire the kids who flunked out of shop class at high school.

nkelly1 · May 2001

I am still under 500 mi. so I am taking easy with it. Gonna have to invest in a digital camera, my next move is start scouting for elk, get a trailer hitch, get a small utility trailer and start hitting the back country.

So I'll need the camera if I am going to post any pictures of this... I can cover a lot of the state on logging roads.

As for the oil.... I will look into moble 1 when I have it broken in.

tsjay · May 2001

Nkelly1, you rascal! Where do you live? You are making me drool with all this talk about elk, logging roads, and back country.

I worked a couple summers in northern Idaho. I loved that country!

I'm stuck in western Ky. now.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · May 2001

Washington State... got a huge herd of elk and hour south of where we live. Then we want to "tour" the Cascade mountain range (via logging roads). There is one spot I know of (this is why I want the camera) where you can see Mt. Adams, Mt. Rainer and the volcano (Mt. St. Helens) sitting in same spot, of course you are looking down at eagles.

While your looking down you can see a small meadow way the hell down there (in the winter it is a pond). Some where in this area there are horse trails.... think this jeep would make that?

Not too far away from here (40 or 50 years ago) over one million dollars in gold was pulled out of one of the rivers (excellent fishing there by the way).

Anyway that is just one area I can pick off the top of my head.

Jeep Wrangler

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