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Kia Spectra Sedan
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Does anyone know if there is any *real world* injury data published online?
It would be interesting to reconcile the IIHS "ratings" to real-life injury data on ANY particular car, just to see how accurate their injury projections are.
Please post the URL to any such info if you know it.
Thanks!
-SM
~alpha
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Putting the overall rating aside, look at the category measures for the Spectra against any of its major competitors. There's no comparison. Kia undelivered. The "rotten apple" comment is really curiuos to me. Why pick the Kia over a better performing, lower priced, higher rated Elantra? Simply because of the logo?
My only point is that not all of criticism/negative results/tests of Kia's products are unwarranted, though you seem to dismiss most as biased, not representative, or irrelevant.
~alpha
PS- Happy Holidays to all!
Kia blew it, just like Hyundai did with the '01-03 Elantra. Try to get over it. The good news is, Kia can fix it if they want to.
Ingtonge said "I didn't see one other car that was rated poor with marginal/acceptable ratings. If the head injury was rated poor, like the 01-03 Elantra was, then of course it deserves a poor rating. But it wasn't and none of the other injuries were rated poor, so I think the overall poor rating was a bit much. They don't base the ratings by comparing it to the performance of other cars. They base it on preset boundaries. The Spectra's performance was definitely a disappointment but not quite poor."
Couldn't have said it better myself. Like I've said, Kia should probably respond to this crash result and fix what they decide to fix. I feel that the Kia Spectra is fortified enough to drive as it is and wouldn't put off a Spectra purchase if that was what I wanted, based on the Lund Report. It was indeed pick and choose "ticket writing" crash-testing IMO. Brings to mind a possible Clodsumer Retorts connection of some kind, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Seriously, did you ever consider that MAYBE, just MAYBE, the cars are evaluated based on performance, and they just don't measure up?
Any way you look at it, the Kia is NOT the equal of nearly all the other cars in its class for the frontal offset, whether it got a Poor OR a Marginal overall. (I dont consider the Cavalier a competitor any longer, and even with a Marginal, the Kia would only be as good as a lowly Neon).
Off to festivities..
Best,
alpha
All the crash photos and crash details clearly indicate that this is for the new model, manufactured AFTER 11/03.
~alpha
I think Kia needs to either tell us what they're going to do to repair the problem with the new Spectra, or issue an explanation on why they think they shouldn't have to, eh? I noticed that when Ford's Exploder was under scrutiny on a wider scale(because of higher Exploder sales than new Spectra sales, affecting a lot more drivers)with their tire problem they were very quiet about their own investigation of the problem. I saw the new Spectra sedan and Spectra5 yesterday. The Spectra has some nice brushed aluminum on the dash and nice interior seat material and the new Spectra is a handsome one...the best looking one I've seen in the Spectra lineup so far. Still, Mr.Lund's crash test showed some deficiencies on that frontal 40mph test that are disturbing. I just wonder if one of the bags didn't open fast enough or something. It would be nice if the manufacturers would study it and find a fix and publish it. Demand a retest. Isn't that what Hyundai had to do with the Elantra a while back?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/001837.html
".....What makes the failure shocking is that car manufacturers know how the IIHS tests and should be able to build the cars to ensure minimal damage to the dummy.
Kia currently stands by its product, according to the story above, but the IIHS test is usually regarded as a gold standard. If Kia does not go back to the drawing board and remediate the Spectra's problems, it should know that a litigation flood will follow, and its settlement costs will skyrocket."
This scenario may be what motivates Hyundai/Kia to consider a retro-fix and retest. Time will tell.
( See.... I'm NOT just a cheerleader. I can post non-positive Kia content too! :-)
-SM
http://www.marketingpower.com/content/Crash_Test_Dummies.pdf
The article basically claims that the IIHS is functionally IRRELEVANT in modifying buyer's purchasing habits even though their data IS accurate.
While I'm in agreement that all of the online evidence I've observed to date supports the basic scientific measurments and assessments of IIHS data, I DO want to float this premise out for the sake of discussion.
If an organization's primary function was to provide information that was routinely ignored by the purported consumer (as the above study implies),
AND this organization's "product" (safety reports in this case) were only released sporadically and thus having limited opportunities to catch the consumer's attention,
AND the current report contains no *truly* horrific and newsworthy data to reveal (I'm thinking as if the Kia had received a more logical "marginal" rating here based on the 3 acceptables and 3 marginal scores -- NO poor sub-category scores at all),
AND the affected automaker is one of the "weaker sisters" of the automotive industry and thus less likely to have political and legal influence on said organization
THEN
it is remotely possible that such organization could (I repeat COULD) be motivated to raise their national and global visibility by subjectively issuing a much MUCH more newsworthy 'poor' rating on a car that under similar and earlier circumstances probably would have only garnered a much LESS newsworthy (read: continued obscurity for the publisher) 'marginal' rating. Just 'Google' the terms 'spectra crash' and the amount of indexed global web pages (obviously touting the IIHS) are phenomenal! I really doubt that there would even be 1/8 the amount of web pages indexed on this topic had none of the cars been awarded an overall 'poor' rating.
I know, I know! The facts are that the Spectra is much less safe than its competitors, and I need to get over it. 'Nuff said. Agreed.
But having grown up in the Watergate era and being a student of human history, I am a believer that politics, power, and self-preservation are major contributors to everything we see, hear, and touch around us.
"The Truth Is Out There....." <tm>
( grin )
-SM
Re-read the IIHS' press release. Note how little extra attention they give the Spectra's results. The headline doesn't scream, "Kia Spectra rated Poor on latest IIHS tests!" They talk all about how well the Mazda 3 and Elantra did before they give the details on the Spectra.
Also look at some of the other recent press releases from the IIHS and you'll notice they don't over-emphasize "Poor" ratings, but also don't avoid pinning them on the "big boys" of the auto industry, e.g. the "Poor" rating they assigned the Ford Escape w/o side airbags, in the side impact crash test.
The facts are that the Spectra is much less safe than its competitors, and I need to get over it. 'Nuff said. Agreed.
Amen.
P.S.
That's 2001, not 1991, for the last "Poor" rating on the frontal offset crash test.
Backy posted:
"The headline doesn't scream, "Kia Spectra rated Poor on latest IIHS tests!"
I don't have a printed copy of the "report" in front of me, BUT you can't say that IIHS isn't making some "hay" with this story. Just go to their website ( http://www.iihs.org ) and look in the upper right-hand corner of their homepage! The word 'Kia' isn't there, but there's definitely some "light yelling" going on in this graphic!
Here's the a link to the graphic that's there:
http://www.iihs.org/images/feature_121904.jpg
Me thinks that graphic ALONE negates your stance to some degree.
-S(moking)M(an) Heh heh heh.
( I just noticed the coincidence! )
Ingtonge18 says: "So the Infiniti is a darn safe car but you still have a higher chance of whacking your head on the steering wheel." You use the term "whacking your head" rather loosely. How about "broken jaw" or WORSE. Yes, the G35 is scary after reading the test results, and I would opt for something safer. But if you want to buy one, go ahead...
Why don't they just FIX THE PROBLEM. a novel idea, isn't it?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Here's a snippet from the IIHS review of the Saab 9-3 that received major safety kudos:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0306.htm
RESTRAINTS/DUMMY KINEMATICS: GOOD Dummy movement was well controlled. The side curtain airbags deployed, as intended by Saab (even for frontal impacts). After the dummy moved forward into the frontal airbag, its head brushed the side airbag and its fabric cover. The dummy continued to rebound into the seat without its head coming close to any stiff structure that could cause injury.
If you guys wanna chew your nails down to the stubs over that "test" go right ahead.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I promise, Im done.
~alpha
The weather in Michigan has been downright ugly the past few days (and some days in December) and my new EX is proving to be very predictable and trustworthy on slushy, icy, slick roads.
The only option my car didn't have was ABS, but from what I'm experiencing, I really don't miss it. The 4 wheel discs grab so well that the car has been stopping straight and true with very little pumping of the pedal.
The standard heated mirrors are proving their worth too these days! :-)
-SM
Spectraman's "real world" driving report in inclement weather in which he reports his new Spectra 4-wheel disc brakes stopping him on a dime mean a lot more to me that a simulated test in which impure motives "may" be to blame. Mind you I'm not saying don't question Kia on this. I've stated before that my favorite car maker probably should have released a press statement on this matter and they haven't. They are going to handle it on a case-by-case basis.
I recall my '99 Kia Sephia to be a safe and reliable rig that never stranded me and was very maneuverable in dangerous driving conditions. I will continue to look for real people's driving reports with their Kia Spectra's and put a lot more stock in those reports. Ya ever noticed how honest people can be about their car's performance? I've read it all about Kia throughout the past few years on the net yet reading all of them and combining them with my own Kia experience I still find them to be a viable and logical choice for automotive excellence.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
~alpha
http://www.car-data.com/xpage.reviews/rp.template.asp?mfg=kia&- ;model=spectrasedan&writer=jm
"IT'S THE KIA TO SUCCESS"
http://www.e-topics.com/index.asp?layout=topic_story&UserID=2- 0001213063240581494&topic=881&display=&doc_id=e011207- 9.1iw
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
EXCERPT
With several well-established choices thriving in the same economy or compact class, the Kia Spectra will likely have a difficult time finding its way among legions of Honda, Toyota and Ford counterparts.
But the Spectra, at least during my weekly test drive of the well- equipped and stylish EX model, should not be overlooked as a formidable option as a well-appointed, four-door sedan in the $15,000 price range.
Introduced well into 2004 calendar year, the new Spectra's exterior has well-designed, clean lines resembling more expensive vehicles rather than inexpensive cars that reek of cheapness.
As such, the Spectra's designation as a compact is a misnomer. Its sleek exterior warrants design compliments and the interior provides spacious surprises.
EXCERPT:
The Spectra is a legitimate rival to the compact champs at Honda and Toyota at a price that will undercut those guys by as much as a couple grand and with a 100,000-mile warranty that may last the length of your loan.
And the Spectra is a car that we feel you can live with comfortably for years even after you’ve made that last payment.
EXCERPT:
KIA RISING. So what are we saying, that Kia is going to eclipse Toyota and Honda in the compact market? Hardly. First of all, there will only be 50,000 Spectras available in the U.S. this year and 70,000 to 100,000 in subsequent years--far below the 300,000+ unit pace set by the Japanese. But in a hotly-contested segment that has traditionally yielded low profit margins (or no profits if you believe the mewling of U.S. domestic automakers), losing 100K units in sales is serious. And Kia seems to be pursuing a course that will win it more customers. In addition to the improvements already mentioned, the Spectra has significantly upgraded interior materials, reduced cabin noise and narrowed panel gaps for improved fit and finish.
Butterfield says his short-term goal is to surpass both Mazda and Mitsubishi in overall sales and he is already close enough that brisk Spectra sales could put him over the top. As for Honda and Toyota, who often seem to be focused solely on one-upping each other, they may find that if the new Spectra can erase that three-year perception gap it will prove tough competition, indeed.
In a recent interview with the Augusta Chronicle, Kia CEO Peter Butterfield described the automaker’s progress in the U.S. market and discussed what the future holds for the youthful, South Korean car company.
".....Today, people are much more accepting of products that haven’t been built in the United States. As long as you’re building a good-quality product with a good price and good styling, people will put you on their consideration list.”? Butterfield said Kia plans to promote its vehicles based on their styling and price. “If you can go out and buy a Kia Spectra vs. a Honda Civic, and you can save $3,000, that’s a pretty compelling reason to leave them - if you think that the Kia is a good-quality product,” Butterfield added.
Kia and its sister company Hyundai will move forward in with new ad slogans in 2005, likely to set the brands apart.? According to Automotive News, “Hyundai’s new slogan is "Drive your way." It is designed to communicate the brand’s ’refined and confident’ attributes. Kia’s new slogan is "The Power to Surprise." That aims at embodying the ’exciting and enabling’ values of the Kia brand.”
-SM
http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=669
EXCERPT FROM AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRIES
"Hyundai’s remarkable resurrection from near death to a prominent position behind the three leading Japanese in North America — and, with more than 3 million total sales, ahead of two of them worldwide — has been driven by the potent combination of long warranties and high vehicle content at low prices and, most importantly, remarkable progress in product quality. In 2004, it tied Honda for second (up eight positions from 2003), just one defect per 100 cars behind leader Toyota, in J. D. Power Initial Quality Study (IQS) corporate rankings and was fourth in Power’s Customer Retention Survey. The Hyundai brand placed seventh in IQS behind Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar, Honda, Buick and Mercury and ahead of Infiniti, Toyota and Mercedes-Benz."
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Oh.... I'm most certainly driving my Spectra and enjoying it. It's pushing 7k miles now, and still no problems other than the oft-reported KIA owners lament of less-than-stellar fuel milage.
I would be interested in knowing what KIA's final reaction will be to the report. I suspect that they'll make the necessary tweaks that IIHS suggested, and try to get them into the 2006 or 2007 model years.
However, since the car passed the government ratings, I think that KIA more than likely thinks their liability needs are covered. If no actual statistical injury data appears, then they'll most certainly not plan on any retro-fitted safety upgrades for the 2004.5-2005 models (my opinion).
In the meantime, I made one small adjustment by moving my above-the-shoulder seatbelt adjuster down a couple of notches to make sure the belt is a tad more snug on my shoulder. The video seems to show the belt anchor being quite a bit higher than the dummy's shoulder.
Additionally, my seat is positioned back further than the starting point of the dummy's seat in the video.
It's my hope that those two factors MAY help my impact "score" should I ever have to put the Spectra's offset crash protection to the test!
;-)
-SM
http://spectraman.freeservers.com
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I really like the solid feel of the structure and doors. It handles well, and is pretty quiet. My only problem thus far is that I can't fill up the tank without having gas overflow out of the pipe, which gets gas on the paint, and sometimes on my hands or shoes. I assume this is a defective valve or something in the pipe to the gas tank - whatever it is that signals the gas pump to stop pumping. I'll live with it until the next oil change.
The only thing missing in the car is ABS, a standalone option that every car in Phoenix dealer inventories lacked. I also yearn for a smoother shifter. But overall, I really like the car.
As for the new engines in joint development with other firms, they can't come soon enough. The Spectra has a modern engine with competitive output, but most Hyundais and Kias have subpar engines. The Sorento is a good example - a 3.5 liter V6 that produces less than 200 HP is absurd.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Complete article
"Inside and out, styling on the Spectra leans toward conservative with a contemporary flourish, paying homage to both European and Japanese design influences. While remaining a technical compact, the Gen II offering is a good deal more accommodating with respect to room for people and cargo. A healthy 2.0-inch wheelbase stretch, 2.2 inches of additional height and a 0.6-inch gain in cabin width all contribute to 97.0 cubic feet of interior volume, giving the Spectra a tangible edge in that department over direct competitors like the Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Ford Focus. It's a packaging formula that ensures four full-size adults can be accommodated on a full-time basis and five can survive in a pinch."
"On the road, our Spectra proved an amiable and capable travelmate. Inside, the look, fit and feel of materials is on par with any of its international rivals. The front buckets, while on the somewhat firm side, offer a good combination of support and comfort. Control layouts, gauge legibility and driving position also merit kudos."
"Despite playing in a segment where sales don't tend to come easy, great things are expected of this new Spectra. With major upticks in style and substance, Kia is projecting annual volume for its most popular line to jump from a supply-constrained 50,000 units to 70,000-plus when all four variants finally come on line. Whether the Spectra's combination of attractive packaging, aggressive pricing and a world-class warranty will resonate quite that fully with potential buyers—especially those in the targeted Gen X segment—remains to be seen. But it's definitely become a more formidable foe, no matter how one chooses to draw the battle lines."
1. I know they had to call the new Spectra an '04 because of CAFE corporate averages, but that was a dumb marketing idea nonetheless. Two totally different cars with the same name and production year, comeon...
2. A couple of months ago, I heard Peter Butterfield on a local automotive call-in program. Someone called and asked him if they'd void their warranty if they got it serviced anywhere but a dealer. BUTTERFIELD SAID YES, THEREBY BOLDLY VIOLATING MAGNESON-MOSS. Chintzy and blatantly illegal.
3. The crash test. I could forgive the Elantra in '01 because it was a late triggering airbag that could have been a fluke, still bothered that they didn't bother retesting until this year. But to have the same platform as the Elantra and fail for structural reasons is inexplicable.
Do you remember what radio show you were listening to when Butterfield made that comment? It would interesting to request a transcript for analysis. I agree with you that that statement is troubling if it was meant to include basic scheduled maintenance like oil changes, tune-ups, etc. I wonder if Hyundai/KIA has some fine print that says if a non-Hyundai/KIA repair shop makes any major repairs then that repair isn't reimbursable, and could possibly void the warranty if it wasn't performed correctly?
Good catch on Butterfield's statement though in any case!
Regarding the crash test, I don't think the Spectra's structure was as much a culprit as the airbag and seatbelt were. I suspect that a tweak of the airbag software/seat sensors and the seatbelt pre-tensioners and design will solve the 'poor' rating.
But....I agree with you that there is no excuse for Hyundai not completely sharing their Elantra crash-test knowledge with KIA, and vice-versa to achieve nearly identical results for such similar vehicles.
I suspect that the two divisions DO share a tremendous amount of data on this front, but obviously there are slip-ups occuring in that exchange.
-SM
http://spectraman.freeservers.com
Haggerty turned on his flashing lights and attempted to stop Mansfield, who continued east into the intersection of Crawford and S. Washington St. Reportedly, Mansfield collided with a 2004 Kia Spectra, injuring Koviljka Holman, 50, of Clarksville, Ind.
Mansfield's Cavalier rammed into the southeast corner of a building located at 236 S. Washington St.
Both Holman and Mansfield were taken to Van Wert County Hospital, where Holman was examined and released. Mansfield refused treatment.
========================
The impact must have been a straight-on frontal and not an offset! ;-)
-SM
E-mailed the host and commented on Butterfield's comments. Will see if I can find reference tomorrow. Doubt if they had transcripts or kept tapes. This happened about 3 months ago.
(Had to use a URL shortening redirection website due to the actual link length being imcompatible with the Edmunds forums)
EXCERPT:
A Kia improvement Feb 18 2005
By Bill Mccarthy
I was driving behind a Kia the other day, a Kia Pride, vintage circa 1993.
One thing for certain about this little box on wheels, it looked like it had been hit by a branch from the ugly tree.
But to be fair, it seemed in pretty reasonable nick, considering it was 12 years old.
The new Kia Cerato (Spectra in the U.S.) couldn't be more different. At first glance, from a distance and in fading light, the front end could, just could, be mistaken for a Mercedes, while the back end is reminscent of a Rover 45. So it's not a bad looking car at all. It is cheap, well built, and if it is like the other cars from the same stable, likely to be highly reliable.
spectraman, I agree, Kia's done a great job with the new Spectra. I like the new Spectra5 a lot, and the new Spectra sedan you bought. They would both be great cars to own! Continue to update us on your Spectra story as we roll along. Speaking of rolling along, spectraman. Does your Spectra have Kumho's or Hankook's on it? My '01 Sportage's Hankook's are still holding up at 92,000 miles. No kidding! You can still sink Lincoln's head a little ways into their treads!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It appears that KIA equipped the new Spectra with a timed delay power window shutoff.
It appears that all of the power windows (I haven't tried the moonroof yet) function for approximately 30 seconds after the ignition key is turned off and removed.
I accidentally discovered this fact this morning after parking my car, taking the key out, and then accidentally bumping one of the window switches.
After experimenting a little in the quiet of the parking structure, I could hear a distinctive solenoid "click" about 30 seconds after removing the key. Prior to hearing the click, the windows still work. Immediately following the click, they don't.
To restate, this behavior appears to be a "convenience" feature for the owner who gets out and realizes he/she left a window open, but have already pocketed the car keys.
The amount and frequency of these little "discoveries" has slowed down, but I'm still finding little "Easter Eggs" like this 7 months after buying my car!
Interesting stuff....
-SM
http://spectraman.freeservers.com