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Comments
I would like to hear how everyone else feels about the 2003 wrangler...
Tsjay, saharanut, saharagal, twylie, texasjeep, goducks1 and anyone else I left out. How do you guys feel about the new jeep?
here is the link if you missed my previous post.......
http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/news/vj.html
I think the CJs, YJs and TJs have evolved very nicely. There have been some definite improvements/refinements, but they have remained true to the basic concept. They are still Jeeps!
That thing in the picture is NOT a Jeep! YUCK!
Hopefully, this info is just pure speculation and will not prove out.
DC, DON'T MESS WITH OUR WRANGLERS!!!!
tsjay
Have you huggd your Jeep today?
Change is *usually* good, and frankly I'm glad the wranglers now have coil springs, greatly improved airconditioning and convenience features, while still providing the versatility of past models. Maybe on the next Wrangler, the removeable hard panels may eliminate the soft vs. hard top decision.
Having said all that, only time will tell if it is a worthy replacement - lets just hope that government regulations don't kill the versatility of the Jeep, and DC management doesn't forget what Jeeps are supposed to be. Otherwise, we all might as well buy CRVs, Escapes, or whatever.
That thing is NOT a Jeep! Through all of the previous changes, the Jeep kept it's identity. The new TJ's are still immediately recognizable as a Jeep.
Let them offer that thing as something else, if they want to market it, but it should never be considered as a replacement for a Wrangler!
Jeeps (CJs,YJs, TJs) are all about history and tradition. They are a piece of americana. They must NEVER be radically changed!
Better ride, better mileage, quieter, etc., etc? Hey, I gave all that up knowingly and willingly to have a "real" Jeep! I don't regret for a moment that I did.
There are plenty of sissy alternatives in the marketplace if someone doesn't want to buy a real Jeep. We don't need another one, and certainly not if it will replace our Jeeps!
tsjay
Have you hugged your REAL Jeep today?
Look, I am all for evolutionary improvements. I think the current wrangler is far better than any predecessor. And yes, without change we wouldn't have the current wrangler. BUT IT STILL LOOKS LIKE A WRANGLER!! I am also sure future changes will only enhance the performance of the TJ. But to be so radical, DC better think twice.
tluke, Sorry to say (though I hope your rumor is correct) I have read several publications saying that the TJ will be retired. I think it is just a matter of when, 2003 or 2004, it is coming. It was rumored as early as 2000 that 2003 would be the year of change. At first I heard it was just simply replacing the inline 6 with a V6 (another mistake), but now I have seen articles in car and driver and somewhere else, can't remember, and several articles on the internet.
jacknimble, I agree with tsjay. That thing is not a jeep. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Of course, like most of you, I hope DC just continues to tweak to wrangler.....
or just a concept Vehicle.. maybe they will take some aspects from that into future models.
I belive the modular hard top will be a GREAT idea. We all know that the internal conbustion engine will be replaced in the future.
While in my heart i hope they dont change the wrangler I know they will. you cant stop progress. If we dont want progress we might as well get our horse & buggy out..& turn off the COMPUTER..
Look at it this way..All of us that have jeeps we will have the last of the lot.
Never live in the past so much so it limits your future
Got Jeep?
Snut
PS..That is an UGLY JEEP!! What are they thinking?
saharanut: I agree with you on the modular hard top being a great idea. It has been a long time coming.
Enjoy your jeeps while they last!!!
here is another link on this "thing"
http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/concepts/icon.html
Having said all that most of the improvements are probably for the better, insert hawking luggie here. I felt the same way, and still do, when they took the kick starter off the Harleys. If you can't kick it over buy a car. Change is inevitable, it is the way of things. But change just for the sake of change is counter productive, ask Smith Wesson.
All in all Jeep has a good thing going. But it is a jeep not a Lincoln Continental or Lamborghini and this prospective should be at the forefront of any "improvement". There are plenty of SUVs out there, but there is only one Jeep and it should stay the way. I would like to see them come out with a built in CB or ham radio, a good trailer, duel door option, a more compact dash board, (for those of us that are over 6 feet tall and eat our food with a knife and fork not chop sticks), ect.
One thing I did note was most, if not all, of the "improved jeeps" were all automatics what's that all about? Its not that I don't like automatics I love them my 1911 .45 is my little sweetheart and my Desert Eagle (big sweetheart) is my companion when I am in the woods.
In a Jeep I want a stick! That is until I get to old and feeble to handle one, then just put me in a hole and shovel the dirt in.
nkelly1: I am in agreement with you about jeeps being available in manual transmissions. The "suits" are making decisions and I'd bet they don't drive stick shifts.
OK, I'm posting a lot today because it is raining, actually thunderstorms......haven't been zapped yet.......
As for the "long wheel base", they have had these for years they are call jeepnees (sp). Any one who has ever been in the Philippines has seen them, they are illegal here. Basically they are a "stretched" 4 door jeep. I think they hold 5 or six people (depending how you stack them). I saw one here a month ago, donno how they got it here, they are really cool looking. I doubt if they would be any good for "off roading" , which is the point of a jeep.
If Dur Chrysler wants a "change" then start a new line of jeep, I was told by my dealer that the Cherokee is going to be discontinued, put the "new jeep" in that spot.
This is a good subject, to bad old TsJay can't get in on it (yuk yuk) I know he is lurking out there .. come on TsJay I know you would love to get in on this. If this thread don't stay running till you get back, we'll wait for your late posting . you picked a fine time to leave huh! )
I saw a picture of the Icon when I went to look at Wranglers on my buying trip. Big thumbs down as far as I'm concerned. I sure am glad I picked up my Wrangler before it's too late! Looks like - sadly - I'll have to get a used one when I'm done with this one 5 years or so down the line. All I can hope is that they delay this Icon thing as long as possible...Or, as tsjay says, introduce it as a separate line. They're going with the GC and the Liberty at once, so why not keep the Wrangler around while testing the Icon's marketability? Only time will tell.
yellowman
I look at the fact that DC could have easily offered the Cherokee and the Liberty concurrently for a year or two to see how it went, but chose to scrap the "old favorite" and take a gamble with the "new" thing. Not to be too selfish, but I've got mine and in a few years, I'll have it juuuuust right.
One "rumor" source that seems to be well tempered and somewhat accurate:
http://www.car-truck.com/
read through the archives and you'll see some interesting thoughts...
While not exactly a 4 door wrangler, AEV does some quality work for those wanting a bit more room in their Wrangler. I have seen one of the 104" conversions and it was top drawer... Maybe for when I check out of the rat race and move to the mountains...
http://www.aev-conversions.com/
-twylie
I am glad I got this one when I did, wish I could afford another one. Looks like we all have a piece of history .. better hang on to them.
Look, if you want a REAL Jeep, buy yourself an early Willys or CJ (2 or 3, not 5-8).
Of course a Jeep is not a Lincoln or Lamborghini, but saying that improved ride, comfort, and mileage is not desirable is like saying a Mazda Miata is not a true sports car because it doesn't leak oil and suffer from electrical problems like true English tradition. Besides, if gas mileage doesn't matter, why do you check it?
One more thing - Everyone that wants to stay true to the original should NOT have any of the following: power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, 4.0L engine (the 4 banger is still WAY too much power compared to the original, but its all thats offered), or radio. Anyone left?
All I'm saying is as long as the new Jeep can truly prove itself as rugged, dependable, and has improved off- AND on-road capability, then why is it not a true Jeep?
Change is not always bad, and if it truly improves the vehicle and its purpose, then it is at least worth an objective consideration. Jeez, there is no use in getting all bent over something that is just a concept - the REAL Wrangler (if its called that) replacement is years away. We'll be lucky if it is even close to the current TJ anyway with all the CAFE cops and safety [non-permissible content removed] regulating trucks now. This concept may the closest thing possible to the original.
By the way, my favorite concepts were the Dakar and the Tabasco Wranglers.
I'll take my new Wrangler with AC, CD, auto, AND a Dana 44!
a "maybe" its not worth it..
isnt it choices is why we love our wranglers..
soft top, dual top, no top, manual, automatic (my choice), color, full doors, half doors, no doors,
tire size, color,
how many other vehicles can be this versitile?
personally i dont wanna drive around in the 1st jeep 60 years ago..I like my ac, cloth seats, my CD player..
"cant we all just get along?"
Got jeep?
Snut
This is a text environment. It is easy to read emotions into a "statement", that aren't there. I have read everything posted and saw it as people venting at what was/is perceived as an unwanted change to something we all love and enjoy . our jeeps. Nothing more, nothing less.
Everyone has their own view point, and "I" respect all of them. I also have the right to express mine, without being accused of disrespecting someone. If that is to much to expect, let me know and I will leave the board.
Things are getting a bit stressful on the job front. Many people are unhappy and several maybe looking elsewhere for employment. I just hope that I can use my vacation time and get a better paying job that will help me with my top three plans. First and most importantly GET MY WRANGLER, since that accident back in October I feel on edge. That 18-wheeler's trailer came too close to turning my firebird into a convertable, which makes me want to get into my new Wrangler as soon as possible. I used to think I would drive it til' the wheels fall off, but not any more.
Tsjay, yes I am a dog lover. If I had my way I have more than one, but I don't have a place of my own. That leads me to the second wish, a place of my own. I've been looking at an apartment but at $570 a month (not even including utilities), on what I make a month and the debt I have now that one's not possible. And the last is the job of course, but I really hope to someday go on a Jeep Jamboree. That sounds like a blast.
Well, it's late for me and 6:30am comes way too early.
Hug your Jeeps for me today
dwrangle
See what happens when you leave for a couple days, tsjay? :-)
yellowman
http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/news/grille_copycat.html
... it looks more like a Jeep than... well... this Jeep. What she is planning on replacing her current Wrangler with when it poops out. Luckily, based on Dad's Pioneer going close to 200K she's got some time left. )
Sorry to those who might be offended, but add my vote the the "fugly" column. **looking at Drew to see if he noticed her "typo"**
Tara
Also, I would like to know what everyone else things is a real Jeep. Since the Wagoneer, Cherokee, Jeepster, Grand Cherokee, etc. dont look like the original Bantam, are they "Real" Jeeps? Willys wagons? How about the Hummer? (yes, it was created by American Motors. The military end was spun off as a separate company when Chrysler purchased Jeep).
Gotta go, I feel a big hawking luggie coming up.
I will welcome some modern convienience to a new Z car (mine had no AC and wasn't available as a convertible), but will have to forego some of the things that "made" my Z. Nissan will use a V6 instead of an I6, but I'll get more power, torque, and reliability. Although I love the smoothness of an I6, this is an acceptable tradeoff for me. They will keep rear wheel drive, independant suspension, etc. to keep it a true sports car, not the luxo-sporty car the midling Z cars became (I liked the last iteration of the Z, but wasn't in the market for one at the time). Hopefully, they will have fixed the car's propensity to rust away, twitchy high speed handling, manual choke, having to manually adjust the valves once a year, and all the other stuff I would like to see "modernized".
Hmmm. Maybe that's the issue here. Do we feel that the TJ has become as modern as it needs to or should be? (I know nkelly will one day figure out how to swap that sissy dash for one with a spedo in the center.) If we feel it doesn't need to evolve functionally or from a convienience standpoint, that the only thing driving change will be govt standards (for safety, gas mileage, etc.), and the marketing crowd at DC trying to figure out a way to reach more buyers. Just trying to provoke some thought here.
While some may see the last days worth of posts as "heated", I think a little disagreement is healthy for everyone . We still have to be one of the most civil boards on Edmunds, if not the whole 'net. I am proud to be a participant amongst such fine posters.
-twylie
Tywlie makes a great point about most of us getting bent out of shape over a material object. It is not only about the vehicle itself but what it represents, freedom, fun, adventure, lifestyle, individualism and even history. The wind in your hair, splashed in sun and the ability to go just about anywhere your heart desires. Not to mention the ability to add your own identity. That's what makes a jeep, well just that, a jeep. A jeep has always been know as a unique means of transportation. How many of you, before owning a jeep, would see a jeep on a bright sunny day with the top down and saying to yourself "I would certainly enjoy one of those if I had one". Seeing a convertible on the road just didn't hit the same nerve. A jeep is medicine for the soul. Have a bad week, put the top down, put on some good cruising tunes and drive for a while. I would bet your spirit is raised everytime.
Now I don't fear change. I agree with many of you, change is usually for the better. But (and this topic deserves at least that), no other vehicle looks, smells, tastes, and acts like a jeep. Why would DC want to change, so radically, such an icon is beyond any of us. Yes, it is also true that the current jeeps are nothing like the old willy's in just about every facet except that they still look like a jeep and offer the same freedom as their predecessors. That new thing (my name) does not look like a jeep. Looks like something we all drive on mars one day.
Lets face it, suits who probably have never driven a jeep are making decisions for the jeep. Let them change it. They will see what the response is.
In the mean time, enjoy the rest of the summer with your jeeps and your families........
yellowman
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
BTW, I want to go on record as NOT defining what a REAL Jeep is. I'm so confused now, I'm not sure which one to hug.
While I'm on the subject, and especially since everyone has dodged the question, what is a REAL Jeep? The Bantam and all its successor exclusively, or do cherokees, wagoneers, and jeepsters also get that distinction? What about the Liberty. Come on, dont be bashful, they're just opinions.
For me, the jury's still out on the Liberty, and I never was sure about the Jeepster.
I've driven some very old jeeps - thanks to Uncle Sam and a bunch of years of years in the Army. While I always loved driving military jeeps, both around garrison and out to the field, I wouldn't have owned one. In fact, I first looked at Wranglers in 1993, but couldn't imagine myself driving one for a 3,000 mile trip. I bought one as soon as they redid the suspension system. So change can be a good thing. While I love the exterior looks, it sure could be better in windy conditions.
One of the reasons I'm stuck with that uncomfortable Taco is that I hate what Nissan did to their pickup. The new Frontiers look dreadful to me, and it seems many others - it isn't selling all that well.
As far as the Liberty - my husband doesn't like the styling. I didn't find it as bad as the Frontier, and I noticed that the little things like the door handles were thoughtfully designed. However, I won't buy one until the back seats fold down flat - my dog wouldn't like riding on a sloping floor (I'm another dog lover, and tsjay you have a wonderful page for your dog).
I would be willing to bet that when the redesigned Wrangler comes out it won't look that much like the concept car. Many of the really extreme styled vehicles aren't selling all that well, and I think car styles will shift in another direction. My only hope is that the next new style won't be so polarizing!
twylie
I don't like the new Z car. But of course I liked the last model Z car the most.
mtngal
I don't think the frontiers look that bad. Maybe they have been out long enough I have gotten use to them by now. They seem to be selling good here. I see them all over. I hate the look of all those car/trucks either way though. But I can't help to love my 90 nissan p/u though.
lookin4sahara
I see nothing wrong with throwing the top halfs in the back. You have to put the rear windows there so it will just be a couple of more items.
Test drive a Jeep with full doors window down and then drive one with the top halfs off.
Is there that much of a difference with windows rolled down vs. upper portion of half doors removed?
Black, half doors, soft top, steel wheels.
Did paperwork Saturday morning, had it on the highway to Maine by 10:30. Tire noise was pretty bad (I need new tires). Road noise OK. A carload of Hesser College girls screamed "NICE JEEP!" (must not have cared about or noticed my ring!).
I had it on a fire road Sunday AM in Kennebunk, and loved it (except the mosquitoes!). Was a lot of fun!
Almost got caught in the thunderstorms, but got last part of top done and windows zipped right as it started to pour. The rain followed me home. It was a good test of the top, and only a slight leak, but possibly because I missed where you tuck the top in to the door frame. Does anybody have directions for all this?
Will report more later, but thought you'd like to hear a little for now.
They put on new front brakes when I got it, and the window zipper came unstuck for me and as long as I use the left zipper pull it is OK. The back brakes squeak a little, and they said they can fix/replace those as well if necessary.
Need tires. Has 225/75R15 Goodyear Wrangler GSA. I can't stand them. They are cupped.
What is a good size and brand to go to?
235/75R15?
245/75R15?
255/75R15?
255/70R15?
30X9.50R15?
31X10.50R15?
What is it about the 31 inch tires that you need the washers for again? What does that effect?
Also, can you buy springs for a lift kit which also have trailer towing increased capacity?
So long for now!
...naming...
mtgal..is it the 01 froentier'd you dont like..
i have a 2000 model now..I kinda like the 01 better..must be a guy thing..
I do have a question.. does the AC drain alot?
after a full day its still dripping...just wondering..
Twylie?..what model was your 240? My wife had a 93 240zx
Way to go...sounds like a great jeep!!
i'm sure you will tell us all about it!!
hey did all of you see edmunds "Top 5 vehicles that make us proud to be Americans"?
Hummer
Corvette
Excursion
Mustang
JEEP WRANGLER!!!
But we all knew this anyway!!
Got Jeep?
http://www/itsajeep.org/public/tazz.htm
Snut
As far as the girls yelling out at you...hey driving around in South St. Louis County area and I had teenage guys whistling and yelling at me from their cars. It was wierd, but eventually I just laughed and told one guy in a truck that I was old enough to be his mother. His eyes lit up and then he said, "so what"...then I left. :O
Post your pictures on the owners section, I want to see them whenever anybody gets their jeep show your new baby.
spyro,
I liked the set-up on your black Jeep. Was it a sport when you started? What all did you have on it when you first bought it?
Hug your Jeeps for me!! ;o)
dwrangler
That H2 thing looks more like a "poor mans" Hummer to me. I am going to keep an eye on this, if DC destroys the "jeep", this may be a good option if they don't make it like somebodys living room inside.
TsJay - I know your out there watching all this, hang in there bud. I know there is a lot you want to say but can't, I hope you haven't pounded your key board into peices yet. CYA when you get here.
http://members.aol.com/simplyred03/BeachJeep2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/simplyred03/BeachJeep4.jpg
There's another one. I don't like that letter limit. Oh well. My little TJ is getting his 33s put on Friday and his 3" lift is going on next Wed. I can't wait!
alee and sparx
Someone mentioned the interests rates and the finance period. Whoever mentioned those a while back repeat them and add where these rates are offered. At this stage, I'm afraid that 5 years is what I would probably have to finance it at so I will wait til' I can do 3-4 years. I don't want to pay that much extra in interest. If I get too desperate, then I'll try to get a second job to fit into part time school and my daytime full time job. Oh boy, that's getting desperate.
Hug your Jeeps for me today! )
dwrangler
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Alee - great beach shots. Is that the Outer Banks? We're going to Hattaras in the fall and I wondered if there was anything new to getting a beach permit. Last time I was there, you just went to the ranger station and paid by the week.
drew - no regulating stupidity I guess. What you saw is an example of Natural Selection in my book. Does Canada have seat belt laws for all passengers, just front, driver?
-twylie
So a word to the TJ community in central NY - don't take your vehicle to the Sam Dell Chrysler Jeep in North Syracuse. I've written a letter to the Attorney General's office about their scam, and I have now made four calls to the regional DC rep about this dealer's service - one of which was made from the service manager's desk in the middle of an argument with him. I guess DC's "five star" program isn't all it's cracked up to be.
On the flip side, the subsequent service I received from Lowery Brothers C/J in Syracuse was exemplary.
Thanks to all of you who supported me in my troubles with the TJ. She's back on the road, or should I say back in the mud, and I am once again smiling.
See you on the trails...
Texasjeep - I didn't care for the 2000, but actively dislike the 2001. Even my other half doesn't like it. And we both absolutely loved our '88 hardbody and only sold it last year because we went through 2 auto trannys in a year. It had 290,000 miles on it and the engine was still in good shape, but the 4 cylinder/auto tranny didn't hold up when we moved to the mountains.
Sas - Congrats on your Wrangler!!! You are going to have a blast. My second set of Goodyears Wranglers (the ones the insurance company bought thanks to the idiot on the 405) were cupped too. I replaced the front tires with another set of the same thing and haven't had any problems yet. It's getting time to think about replacing the other two and that's why I've been interested in the discussion on tires. I've found that the Goodyears do just about everything I need them to do adequately, and I'm not so sure that some of the other tires would.
dragonfly03 - love those pics! That's quite a jeep, and a lovely location.
And one last thing. Since I moved to the boonies, I haven't had a need to parallel park much. This weekend I did, and it was great. I had forgotten how maneuverable the Wrangler is in the city. I fit into a small parking place that others had passed up. I'm not sure that the RV behind me would have liked it, but I thought it was great. I take that for granted when I am off-road somehow, and don't translate that into city living. Anyway, just thought I would bring that up since it is one of the advantages of the Wrangler.