Toyota Engine Sludge Problem

bobistheoilguy · January 2002

if the oil is hot or cold. with the oil cold, it has had the opertunity to drain and you see the appropriate level as required for the engine. to do this hot would mean you may have some still up in the top side of your engine that hasn't drained yet. aside from the obvious that you might burn yourself, your engine temp might vary from one time to the next so how would a hot engine help check your oil level? now this isn't to say you can't and as long as you check it, you should at least be able to detect any possible problems, hot or cold.

one thing to look for though, if your dipstick has a good rubber seal that fits the tube, you should always pull it out first, wipe, then reinsert then pull back out and read it. the reason is like a straw, if you were to put your finger over the straw and insert into a liquid, the liquid cannot push the trapped air out, same with a tightly sealed dip stick. first time i experienced this in an issuzu p/u, ended putting an extra qt of oil in not realizing what i did.

on older cars you can just pull it out when cold and look with out any difference since they don't have that tight seal.

fxashu

"Toyota is the only manufacturer that REQUIRES dealer service to uphold warranty work"

i don't think that's true, just that they are tightning thier belts since competition is fierce in the automotive industry and this is one way ensure less profit loss due to customers lack of maintance. i know that gm has a guy that is sometimes called out in questionable situations as well and i got a call from an altanta ford dealership about sludge and commented that they use my information about sludge to help explain to customers. so, i don't agree toyota is the only ones.

as for that product, have you considered that each engine may have different designs and that maybe the emission design on one engine is different? so isn't it possible that one type of engine,although the same manufacture, could be more aggressive on oil and the other not? like one engine might get better milage,and the other more speed and such?

bob in jville

Member STLE

Lubricant Specialist

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

armtdm · January 2002

Heat expands everything including oil to some extent. (trannies are always checked hot and when running) So after stopping the engine and letting it sit for 15-30 min then checking the oil
you will get a different reading if you let that engine sit overnight and check again. On most of my cars I will get a much higher (1/8 of an inch) diff in the level as it will be higher when that oil is hot then if you wait until the next morning. At least on my cars. Seems like the opposite should be true (oil should drain down more but it also contracts) but not in my case and not on all cars. On one the warm reading is lower. You have to know your engine and dipstick. So by being consistent (that is the key) I always check mine when cold in the AM after sitting at lest 6-9 hours. Even summer versus winter checks can make a diff.

My opinion

mrdetailer · January 2002

Then they should say so. It would be easy enough to say that they recommend at least a syn blend or hydrocracked oil. After all Corvettes do. But Toyota doesn't. They are clearly too long on the severe schedule recommendations. The sheer test results after 4K that you told us about it show that. Are there other engines that do the same thing? Was the sheer test on a good oil, or a "bulk" oil?

gimpyrx · January 2002

Every person I've talked to who has had Lexus service has said it's the best they've ever had. I can't help but wonder, gimpy, if you're part of the problem here. If your attitude and ranting at the dealer are even half of how you carry on in here, I'd tell you to take a long walk off a short pier, too

First of all Mr Survey man...I have done ZERO ranting (yet) at the dealer.
My service "was" the BEST I had ever had, UNTIL the SLUDGE MONSTER. Then all at once, I am neglecting my vehicle. I treated it just like ALL of my other LEXUS,with no problems. This is why I carry on this way,just like you would too, if you got bent. So you know what you can do with your short pier...

BTW...I saw an Rx300 with lemon stickers on it,going up I-75 today...I LOVE IT!

barnone · January 2002

the reason for me not purchasing a toyota is
because of their extremely poor customer service.
i had a toyota before and they added some oil
treatment goo that came from u.k. i forgot the
name of the can 'tho

csandste · January 2002

What if we were talking about police brutality directed against minorities? Three people interviewed were a school principal, a nurse, and a CPA. All were pulled over for "driving while black" and harrassed by a rogue cop. The fourth one pulled over was a felon with a long history of drug dealing. Treating #4 harshly but correctly wouldn't justify what happened to 1,2, and 3.

Gimpy did certain things-- mainly far exceeding his oil change recommendation, that make him suspect. That does not mean that Catgem, Cholowicki, and some of the other stories in here (and on myriad other sites) are not legitimate.

This is not to call you a felon Gimpy, just someone who has really put themselves in an indefensible position. That does not mean that Toyota wouldn't have treated you just as poorly if you had changed oil at 5,000 intervals.

As someone who reads this thread primarily for entertainment, I am still troubled enough that my next car will not be a Toyota or a Lexus.

lbthedog · January 2002

"Toyota is the only manufacturer that REQUIRES dealer service to uphold warranty work. Any other engine failure is due to some other owner negligence. That sounds expensive and illegal."

Yes it is illegal. A clear violation of the Moss Magnusson act.

When I first started reading this thread I took it mostly as a hoax. From what I've read here and elsewhere, I no longer think that. I also do not think this a common problem. And that may be what Toyota is banking on. So what if a couple hundred or couple thousand owners get screwed? Their reputation will get them by just as many new customers who haven't heard of this "problem" or assist in he denial of it. Now if they were to actually work on a fix, they've got a problem. If you were to look at the stats for the Ford Explorer, you'd see they really aren't as bad as popular perception. By buying tires and making noise, Ford made matters worse. Now imagine Toyota recalling millions of vehicles to fix a problem on a few thousands. This attitude is nothing new for some manufacturers, Mitsubishi most prominently. Hiding warranty data in Japan on items that could be safety related was a true low.

So this isn't a matter of if this happening, it's a matter of Toyota defending itself by telling owners to bite the bullet.

fxashun · January 2002

my words exactly.

lancerfixer · January 2002

...that the suggestion was made that Toyota REQUIRES maintenance to be done at a dealer; I think the point was brought up that it'd be a whole lot easier to prove you'd done the maintenace if it were done at the dealer. Do new Toyotas come with maintenance books that are stamped by the dealer/Jiffy Lube/whomever? Even if you changed your oil yourself, you could put the receipt inside the book. I really don't see what the big deal is about keeping records.

210delray · January 2002

I agree totally; Toyota does not require dealer service. And their vehicles most certainly do come with maintenance booklets that can be stamped by anyone.

My Camry just passed 80K miles the other day. No signs of sludge, nor have I had to shell out more than a few dollars for anything other than normal replacement of tires, fluids, and filters (excluding 2 minor crashes that can't be blamed on the car). Couldn't be happier -- best car I've had at this mileage.

And as I've said before, I kept my own records of oil changes that I performed; these were accepted as evidence of proper maintenance when I had my valve stem seals replaced under warranty.

210delray · January 2002

Is there really a difference between, say Havoline dino 5w-30 that you buy in quart bottles at Wal-Mart versus Havoline dino 5W-30 that comes in a 55-gallon drum?

Mr. Bob, could you please shed some light on this? And could you name some names as to what the best oils are (other than Schaeffer's which I don't think exists in my area)?

catgem · January 2002

or,rather,my computer has been away being fixed...no,it was not sludged!! I had my 2nd post- sludge oil change at another Toyota dealership. Very nice,though they forgot to do the promised car wash,but I wentright back in and got it...no mention of oil type,and I am not going to ask...I figure they are too smart to tell the truth,and they could be changing PCV valves for all we know!! If Cobb County Toyota had been as convenient and pleasant,I might have gone to them for oil changes....by the way,since tax season is upon us,I thought I would mention that casualty and theft(ha) losses ARE fully deductible if you itemize...and repairs can qualify. Check with your number cruncher...I know I plan to with my $4600!!! Other than those items of interest,I am busy working and moving on!!

jmsintx · January 2002

What causes sludge formation ? Engine design does not cause sludge formation. Sludge formation begins when the chemically suspended particles of contaminants begin to settle out of the oil. Engine oil suspends the contaminants and any engine oil can do this successfully to a point. Some oils are able to perform this task more effectively and for longer periods of time. But eventually, if the oil is not changed often enough, a "saturation point" will be reached. This saturation point is either when there are too many contaminants to handle or when the oil's chemical defenses are weakened, and it is caused by two main things: excessive accumulation of contaminants in the oil and chemical changes in the makeup of the oil itself (depletion of the additives and oxidation).
As more particles are suspended, less of the additives are available to do their job. Knowing this makes it easy to see why too much time between oil changes can be one cause of the oil reaching its "saturation point". Repeated stop and go driving, especially during cold weather when the oil may not reach operating temperature for water to vaporize out of suspension is the harshest of conditions for oil.

gimpyrx · January 2002

"This is not to call you a felon Gimpy, just someone who has really put themselves in an indefensible position. That does not mean that Toyota wouldn't have treated you just as poorly if you had changed oil at 5,000 intervals"

They looked at the oil "samples" GLYCOL?? hmmmm
Still screwed me,so now I tell it all,to everyone.
Extended drain, or not. 3,000 5,000 7,500 It will not make a difference. As you can see on this board, you will be bent. So now, and always is the time for a big.......
THANKS LEXUS CUSTOMER "NO" SERVICE.

armtdm · January 2002

I think that you would be really really pushing it to claim a engine rebuilt as a casualty loss. Casualty losses are acts of God, accidents, thefts etc and not wear and tear. My days as a CPA are behind me but I seriously doubt it. Of Course, your chances of being audited are pretty slim these dasy.

sgergen · January 2002

Hey Gimpy -

I have over 32,000 on my 2000 Sienna and using dino oil I have yet to get "bent" as you put it by Toyota. 3,000 mile oil changes with regular bulk 5W-30 dino oil at Toyota.

Nothing wrong with a little hysteria, I guess...

Scott

gimpyrx · January 2002

Who cares? why waste your time on a sludge board, if ya don't have it?
Apples & oranges.....Sienna aint no RX,That is what "they" told me.
You will see what "BENT" is in time.

BTW...When was the last time you did a sample to check for GLYCOL?
Tic..Tock..Tic...Tock..The sludge time bomb is ready to go.
POL!

stealth1969 · January 2002

Go back and read post #116 by Alcan. Mechanical design can at least be a contributing factor in sludge.

bobistheoilguy · January 2002

mr detailer,

the tests that were run was with standard oil analysis, not a shear test. the analysis showed the oil shearing down from one grade to another. the analysis was performed on a tundra in ILL, and the results where consistant using several of the higher end off the shelf oils.

i have recently gone to toyotas service dept's and talk with the mechanics and personally looked at these sludged up engines, it has become more apparent that the emission systems used on certain types of motors put more demands on the oil and when failing to detect oil changes are needed, that this type of engine design is less forgiving and thus will sludge up much faster than others. they do have a gear meshing with another gear for the twin cams which will shear down oil prematurly(before 5,000 miles) as well if you don't use a better grade oil. the gearing on the head coupled with the emissions system they use seem to be the "problem" as some would believe this to be. now maybe you could consider this a design problem then again maybe not.. gears that are meshing are common place in rear ends and manual transmissions.. both of which usually needs higher levels of extreme pressure / antiwear additives which standard off the shelf oil don't supply for motor oils. this type of additive is used in gear lubes and usually has a "rotten egg" type of smell due to the zddp levels. now amsoil does have in thier non api certified 2000 and 3000 oils higher levels of this additive but not enough that it could be run in as a gear lube application.

Bulk oil by 210delray

"Is there really a difference between, say Havoline dino 5w-30 that you buy in quart bottles at Wal-Mart versus Havoline dino 5W-30 that comes in a 55-gallon drum?"

in bulk oil situations, oil containers are a lot of times outside of the bays somewhat if not any coverd by a roof, exposed to heat,cold,water (condensation/rain),snow, and what ever elements you can think of.

the constant hot and cold creates condensation in bulk tanks, the pickup tube normally doesn't reach all the way down to the bottom so when a bulk tank is refilled by the wholesaler, the oil on the bottom is mixed with new oil. now consider that most retailers try to by the cheapest priced oil so when one wholesaler comes in and beats the others price, then they switch brands thus you now have a mix of 2 or more in that tank. not to mention the manufacture pumps the bulk truck which carried oil for another company, still may have some residue from previous shipment, transports to the wholesaler,pumped into thier holding tank,then pumped into another truck to the retailer's tank.

same oil in the bottle, manufactured and poured into a clean bottle right there then boxed and shipped to retailers. cost more? yeah, but you as a consumer know for a fact, the bottled oil is not contaminated from outside enviorments or lack of cleaning and maintaining bulk tanks.

been to some bulk oil retailers pumping from a 55gal drum, seen alot of them have the pump loosley sitting in the hole where dirt and debri is all over the top which suggests maybe inside as well. would i use that oil, not me.

there is many oils that are good. i'll tell you that oils like mobil 1, amsoil xl7500 series only, castrol syntec,royal purple, to name a few are all good oils. your choice as to what you preferr.. but no matter what your using, you really need to look at the dip stick once in a while and choose a good maintanence program for your driving habits. bring your own oil in a bottle for those that like the full quicklube service, there fore you know your not getting any possible contaminents from bulk storage and transport.

fxashu

"Toyota is the only manufacturer that REQUIRES dealer service to uphold warranty work"

i'm sorry, i didn't read your statement correctly and i totally agree with you that if a dealer does require you to use them only and would voild warr in thier eyes, then the federal magnason moss act would come into play and they would have to provide you thier service for free to not break that law. so far though, i have not seen a dealer state that they had to do all the oil changes, just that they had to have documented proof of the oil changes which they find a lot of them are doctored and in sequencial numbers on the invoices and such which they have a right to refuse if they suspect fraud.

HOT VS COLD by armtdm.. checking transmission fluids are required to be warm and running since you have a torque converter that retains oil as well as the pan and valve body, you don't know if you have oil in all those components and can give you a false reading if not checked while running. also, this allows you to see if you are having any ariation in your oil due to overfill.

the difference in checking the oil hot or cold is of no concequence. 1/8th level on a stick between hot and cold doesn't warrent any action. as someone said earlier, consitant checking is the best way and it having sit overnight,you know it's all settled down from up top, and each time you check it's gonna be around the same temp which on a hot engine you can't tell if temp is the same or how much is still not drained as well as your time to allow the oil to drain may not be the same, 2 mins one time,5 mins another, depending on how much of a hurry you are. to go over a hair on the oil stick will not do any damage on your engine so it is a general reading that will alert you to a shortage of at least 1/2 qt. or more.

bob in jville

Member STLE

Lubricant Specialist

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

mrdetailer · January 2002

for your information and for inserting the calm voice of reason into this discussion.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2002

I don't think the Hyundai Santa Fe problem is analogous here. Those are, apparently, catastrophic failures in significant numbers. The evidence of factory defect is a lot stronger, seems to me.

catgem · January 2002

from JK Lasser's YOUR INCOME TAX 2002: "to be a deductible casualty loss,property must be damaged or destroyed as a result of a sudden,unexpected,or unusual event". On page 346,it is noted that the Tax Court held that the loss of an engine because of failure to use antifreeze is NOT deductible as a casualty loss since the damage is not the result of a destructive force or accident but of personal neglect. Would really like to claim a theft loss,because I truly feel I was robbed by Toyota...

sgergen · January 2002

...is that you blatently disregarded the Toyota/Lexus warranty requirements and then you come here and spout off about how you got the shaft from Lexus.

It was your choice to use Amsoil, you chose to disregard the warranty requirements (and not by just a little). Your engine had a problem and you left the door wide open for Lexus to deny your warranty claim.

With some of the others (jj35, cholowicki) at least they *attempted* to play by the rules, it's a bit easier to sympathize with their predicament.

As far as the oil sample goes, I have never taken one nor do I plan to. I change my oil on a 3,000 mile schedule at Toyota ($19.95 with a coupon) and I check my oil every so often when I'm filling up with fuel. My Sienna runs like a top and I see no reason that it will not continue. Moreover, if something *would* happen, I have full confidence in my local Toyota dealer that, given my documented maintenance, they would take care of the issue.

It just seems silly to me to see someone rant and rave about how they got "bent" by Toyota/Lexus when it seems fairly obvious to onlookers that they brought the trouble onto themselves by disregarding the warranty requirements. I'm sure it's not too funny to you.

Good luck Gimpy, I'll do my best to ignore your posts in the future so as to keep the forum on topic.

Scott

gimpyrx · January 2002

sgergen.......
"I'm sure it's not too funny to you"
Wrong again....Having a blast!

"warranty requirements "
Wrong again...Recommendations!

"It was your choice to use Amsoil, you chose to disregard the warranty requirements (and not by just a little). Your engine had a problem and you left the door wide open for Lexus to deny your warranty claim"
Yes....Wrong again...My engine had a problem of making GLYCOL. Nothing to do with changing the oil,as you can see by the junky 3.0 V6 history.

"I'll do my best to ignore your posts in the future so as to keep the forum on topic"
Please do....I'm tired of your IGNORANCE & yota suckin up...The topic is sludge,you don't have it, so hit the road jack.

jeffmust2 · January 2002

Gimp can't read. This is the only possible answer as to why he continues to claim that Lexus' manual only "recommends" that he do a few $25 oil/filter changes to keep his warranty valid.

Wrongo, Gimpo!

The RX manual clearly states that in order to keep the warranty in effect, the owner/operator of the vehicle MUST carry out mileage-dependent oil and oil filter changes. No ifs, ands, buts, or "I-jus-don't-get-its" about it.

The RECOMMENDATION part of the manual has to do with SELECTION of oil quality and grades, with Lexus listing two different API-rated choices, 5W30 or 10W30.

They further RECOMMEND that the owner/operator select API-approved brands of 5W30 as the best choice.

OK, Gimp, here we go - it's as simple as 1-2-3:

1. A MUST "DO" FOR WARRANTY TO BE IN EFFECT:
Change oil & filter within 5000-7500 miles

2. LEXUS MANUAL "RECOMMENDS"...
Use 5W30 oil that meets API standards (which Amsoil's great products apparently do not)

3. Forget your glycol leak; Lexus would be just as successful in proving the leak was caused by your neglect as you will be claiming it was a vehicle manufacturing defect and it then caused the sludge residue to form.

So...when IS that court date?

Incoming.

bobistheoilguy · January 2002

in reference to dirt and contamination of 55 gal bulk oil drums at a lube center. they were kind enough to allow me to shoot these provided i don't tell anyone who they are. (don't blame them)

http://theoildrop.server101.com/barrel.jpg

take close note as to where the open holes are in the container and what's laying around on this.

bob in jville

Member STLE

Lubricant Specialist

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

mbbenz · January 2002

Say Gimpyrx, did ya ever head down to local Kia dealer to get that 0% financing? bet you look really good driving that Sephia. please keep us posted with how the Kia is running.

210delray · January 2002

Never thought about contamination of 55-gallon drums with dirt, etc. More glad than ever that I do my own oil changes using the quart bottles.

Mbbenz, I wouldn't miss him either if he headed off into the sunset in one of those Sephias.

lancerfixer · January 2002

He DOES provide some levity in an otherwise dull work day. If you want to see REAL cancers upon Edmunds, visit the SUV and News and Views topics. I'm surprised these people can operate a computer.

suvshopper4 · January 2002

To answer your question (post #2848): "...your engine temp might vary from one time to the next so how would a hot engine help check your oil level?"
- I don't know, I don't consider myself an oil expert.

My '01 Toyota manual states: "After turning off the engine, wait a few minutes for the oil to drain back into the bottom of the engine..."
[I think that the manuals for other vehicles I've owned said essentially the same thing.]

I don't know what their reasoning is. But that is what is in the manual.

bobistheoilguy · January 2002

Thanks anyway but that wasn't a question i was looking for an answer to. it was posed as a question to be pondered on in the discussion of checking oi cold of hot.
bob

litigationatty · January 2002

In 2001, I had the misfortune or purchasing two lexus vehicles. The first vehicle purchased was a ES300. Subsequently I purchased an ES300. Both vehicles worked well until they reached the 24k miles. The first sign of trouble was experienced with the ES300. White smoke and later blue smoked appeared at most "cold starts". I immediately went to the Dealer and without so much as opening the hood, the mechanic informed that "sludge" to the engine had occurred and that the repairs could exceed $7,000. I asked if the repairs fell under the warranty and he answered "no" convincingly.

Within a few weeks the Rx300 had similar symptoms and again another mechanic handled the situation relatively in the same manner.

It was difficult for me to fathom and accept the conclusions of these mechanics, since I had taken good care and had been diligent in keeping with my oil changes. I had apparently made the mistake of doing my "oil changes" with a quick service oil change company (that will go unamed at this time). In reading through the Lexus manual, I did notice that the Oil changes were not required to be done with the "Lexus" dealers.

In the months that followed, I have come accross several Lexus/Toyota owners that have had simalar problems with sludge. Also in reading the thousands of messages posted here it is also very evident.

I have wondered if perhaps a class action suit against Lexus would not be appropriate.

If you have had simiar problems with your Lexus vehicle, please write and inform? Or whether you have can offer any advuce? Or perhaps if you would like to be considered as a member in a class action lawsuit, pleas inform?
Thank you.

fxashun · January 2002

You change you oil at 3000 mile interval? That's nearly twice as often as "severe" reguirements. An valid argument could be made that you are not only wasting your money but also wasting oil.

autoresearcher · January 2002

Why aren't we seeing the "engine sludge" discussions for other makes and models?

IF this oil company is to blame, why are just the Toyota models so adversely affected?

Has the "owner blame" theory worn to a frazzle? Are other excuses now being used?

Seems that way to me.

bobistheoilguy · January 2002

to show that there is a lot of things that can cause problems with oil. this is just an example as to why i recommend not to use bulk oil if possible.

there is many other cars and trucks with sludge. toyota is not the only ones. for everyone person that has a sludged engine is 10 that don't. ( i don't really know the numbers but i would bet the ratio is about right).

like i said, i'm sure a lot of you do have a ligitamate complaint, but for everyone that does, there is two to that one that has a sludged engine that brought it on themselves. (only one on this board i can see so far).

gimpyrx · January 2002

"Within a few weeks the Rx300 had similar symptoms and again another mechanic handled the situation relatively in the same manner"
ANOTHER ONE bites the dust.

3. Forget your glycol leak; Lexus would be just as successful in proving the leak was caused by your neglect as you will be claiming it was a vehicle manufacturing defect and it then caused the sludge residue to form.

Explain this one Mr Simpleton....Extended drains in NO WAY,cause sludge. I guess all Amsoil customers get sludge...You need to clean the "Lexus brown" off of your nose.

BTW....Saw another smoking RX300 sludge mobile at the mall friday...dealer serviced since new, he said.(22,000 miles) SO SAD!
POL!

mbbenz · January 2002

is like reading the National Enquirer. It might sounds interesting but in the end you know its all bullcrap.

gimpyrx · January 2002

csandste · January 2002

where's Major Thom Echo? Haven't seen any of his posts since about Christmas. Is he ok?

isellhondas · January 2002

Elvis was his Service Advisor!

mbbenz · January 2002

our pal Gimpy bought a Santa Fe and then stole the Lexus emblems off some poor guy's car at local mall and stuck it on his and then went to local Lexus dealer hoping to get Lexus service. That's when he met his service advisor Elvis.

jj35 · January 2002

I reluctantly come to Gimpy's defense. As an owner of a sludged Sienna, I, too am mad as he is. He is verbalizing what I am feeling! I feel hypocritcal sitting here talking all politely about how Toyota charged me $3,300 for an engine repair that should have been covered under warranty.

If you can't handle Gimpy's posts, don't read them and especially don't respond to them.

gimpyrx · January 2002

benzboy.....
"bought a Santa Fe and then stole the Lexus emblems off some poor guy's car at local mall"
What the he!! is this?

csandste.....
Why battle me? I'm not the one screwing the customers, that would be yota/laxus.

isellhondas · January 2002

It's the inane delivery that bothers people more than the content.

But, you are correct, his posts should not be responded to. Only fuels the fire.

sludged10k · January 2002

This is my first -- and probably last -- post about my sludged 2001 toyota sienna engine.

My engine sludged after 10200 miles and 10 months. I had changed the oil at 5000 miles. I did not even know what sludge meant until my oil light came on after a 500 mile trip.... and I started checking the web.

Sure enough, looking into the oil fill area I can see a lake of black 'ointment' that I can stick my finger into. The car runs, but puffs smoke.

There seem to be a lot of 'Japan Inc' defenders on the sites rebutting the possibility that there is a problem with the Sienna engine. They often take the position that owners cause this problem themselves by not changing oil every 3000 miles, rather than the 7500 miles recommended by Toyota manuals.

Actually, I'm the type that does 3000 mi changes. But when I took delivery I was specifically told (unprompted) NOT to change the oil early, since they were filled with a special break-in oil that should be used for at least 5000 miles. Maybe this was gratuitous post-sales hype (or it may be the basis of the Toyota-Pennzoil suit) but it was presented very emphatically.

Now that I have a ruined engine, I recall an occasion when the car was only a few months old when my wife was driving off and I saw a puff of oil smoke. The car was so new I sort of just dismissed it.

Based on my experience and what I read here, Toyota has a big problem on its its hands and it's defensive posture is serving loyal customers poorly.

The preponderance of data and my personal experience leave me convinced that the Company Men who frequent edmonds and this site trashing complaint makers may be misleading other Sienna owners that do not YET have sludged engines.

Taking their advice and changing oil on these engines twice as often as the manual suggests may simply postpone the problem until the warranty miles are over, thus lowering the complaint profile.

Since this engine is sludge prone I'm dumping my Sienna with an early trade for a non-Toyota and advise anyone who can afford it to do the same now, before it sludges and you lose $6000.

Be aware, however, that the trade-value of your Sienna has already been affected by this problem, and dealers are carefully inspecting these cars before accepting them, if they accept them at all.
_
Well, since this is my last Toyota, I may as well lodge a complete complaint and include info on my two prior Toyotas.

1999 Sienna van. Transmission failed suddenly on trip 400 miles from home at 34000 miles. Dealer quizzed me about recommended 30000 mi maintenance, and I showed him the receipt of the transmission fluid service at 30000 miles. After his obligotory defamation of jiffy lube, and a rental car and a return visit to the area a week later, I drove off with my new transmission. Two days later, after driving home, the transmission failed and my local dealer replaced it with ANOTHER new one. Seems the other dealer forgot to put the plug in. So much for dissing jiffy lube (but see below)

1988 Camry. Transmission failed the first year and was replaced under warranty. They called with a quality survey the next day. I said we were happy with the repair and the service. They asked me if I was displeased with any aspect of the service. I said well, since you asked, I wish they had called me to let me know the status of the repair, since they had a few days delay in getting a part, but no big deal. Two days later my wife gets a call from the 'service' tech saying he was called into his bosses office and reprimanded and was shown a copy of our 'complaint' . He told my wife never to do that again or he 'would come over and take care of her' (exact quote). Since we were moving to a different city within a few days and had been threatened by this nutso employee, we dropped it. However, we had an oil change at jiffy lube a day later and the tech pulled us over to show us that there was NO transmission fluid in our week old transmission. Saved by the luck of an oil change at jiffy lube (not they are perfect) -- of course we dared not tell Toyota.

(note... I will crosspost this to other sites)

fxashun · January 2002

3.0 V6. They seem to only mess up the service in only specific engines. Hmm.

I like Gimps posts. I especially like the he!!. That was clever.

csandste · January 2002

You've got it wrong. When Hyundai had problems with a small amount of Santa Fe engines they stuck with their customers, making good on repairs and offering free XG350's in exchange. Hyundai's attitudes towards their customers has nothing in common with Toyota/Lexus. One is a company trying hard and on the way up, the other is a company rapidly decontenting their product and stiffing their customers.

mrrogers · January 2002

mentioned a Toyota-Pennzoil suit. Could you share any details with us? Thanks.

isellhondas · January 2002

Well, after almost 300 posts this issue is unresolved.

I keep waiting to hear of this "sludge" problem anywhere except here.

We take in a pretty good number of used Toyotas and Siennas. I have NEVER heard of one of these with sludge problems nor have I ever seen one smoke unless it's an old beater with a worn out engine.

Once in awhile a new poster will pop in here, tell a story of woe and never be heard from again.

And a lot of these stories sound very real.

Still, I just can't believe how any engine can be affected like this after 10,000 miles!

I still cry FOUL ! sorry...

And I guess I should be loving this since Toyota is by best competition.

I should maybe tell my customers..." Don't buy a Sienna!! It'll need a new engine because of sludge" " Go to Edmunds Town Hall and see for yourself!"

Nope! I just don't swallow it!

gimpyrx · January 2002

This is what fuels my fire....."Since this engine is sludge prone I'm dumping my Sienna with an early trade for a non-Toyota and advise anyone who can afford it to do the same now, before it sludges and you lose $6000".............

If ya don't like it, get lost! This is the SLUDGE board, and if ya don't have it(SLUDGE)....then BEAT IT!

TRUST ME....They (Toyota/LaXUS) will hit the dead end SOON! I just do my part to keep others from getting BENT,like alot of us have.....FOR NOW!

BTW....Both of my Lexus golf shirts now have the red circle, with the line through it, embroidered over the word LEXUS....This was the ONLY way I was going to wear them again....Gets LOTS of LOOKS & QUESTIONS....I LOVE IT!! Pay back time.
POL!

Toyota Engine Sludge Problem

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