Jeep Wrangler

bamatazz · July 2001

talk about a bad sign...
sheesh dude,,,i feel for you..
I had a car stolen too..its a horrible feeling
i am paranoid if i can keep an eye on TAZZ
I beleive the best security is a sterring wheel lock.
or viper alarm with a proxcimity(spelling) alert.
where I work i can keep a an eye on TAZZ at all times.
We are with you ...
TOM
I think its a good idea you gotta a "work truck"
trucks are just good to have

Jeep Jeepin!
BT

heberbay · July 2001

Hi All:

I've decided to get a second car for our 4 member family. I've never owned a jeep, but am sure on getting a Wrangler with the sound bar. But there are a number of things I'm not sure about:

1. New or used?
2. 4 or 6 cylinders?

Also, is there anyway to put things on top of the roof for transport, like a kayak for example?

Any advice or recommendations are appreciated.

jacknimble · July 2001

I was thinking about this today as I was enjoying my new Jeep with the scewed seats:

I didn't even notice it until I read about it on the board. I have no idea if my 97 had them, but I've experienced no seat comfort problems with either Jeep. Since so many have noticed it on so many Jeeps, it must be intentional for whatever reason, so the safety issues are moot unless you have it "fixed".

Therefore, let it go and just enjoy it - there's no such thing as a perfect world, otherwise the plastic windows wouldn't scratch!

tsjay - may try to get some pictures up in the next couple of weeks (by the way, she's stone white with canyon wheels like Thelma Jane).

BTW Dept: I was driving it the other day, and when turning, heard this awful popping - like the suspension was coming out from under it. It sounded like my 97 when the body mounts were bad, but much louder. I thought, "well this is a new record, only 200 miles and has to go in for service. At least my 97 made it to 997 miles before the transmission had to be rebuilt." To make a long story short, it was a golf ball loose rolling around behind the seats and hitting everything metal it could find. Now if I can just find that squeek...

maryapruitt · July 2001

The rack we installed is a "basket rack" which I wanted to hold my wet gear in. Most of the gear was dry by the time we arrived home after a full day on the river. There are adapters for both Thrule and Yakima available to attach the bars which hold the boats to the basket rack.

This past Saturday, we took one canoe and one kayak leaning on its side against the canoe to the river--with out the adapters and bars as they are on back order. The Wilderness rack (basket rack) will run $450.

When I get the adapters, and attach my Yakima bars, both boats will sit side by side with plenty of room. I am resuing the yakima bars I took of my pickup truck.

Here is the web site for the rack manufacturer:

http://www.garvin-industries.com/

Hope this helps.

Mary Ann

kwilson4 · July 2001

290,000 miles on your Nissan without needing engine work? What kind of oil do you use?

texasjeep · July 2001

heberbay
It depends on what you want to use the Jeep for.
I hate 4 cyc. If you are only using it on trails and some city driving a 4 can be OK. I hate them on the highway though.
Used can be a good way to go. Jeeps retain their value real well so it can be tough to find a good deal.
The TJ is 97 and newer and the YJ is 87-95. The TJ rides signifcantly better and I would get a 91 or newer YJ so you have fuel injection.

See maryapruitt's post for a rack.

mtngal
If you are keeping Taco for couple of years and have such a long commute, why not look at getting new seats? Is that your only complaint about the vehicle? You could keep it longer. Since you like the TJ seats so much, see if they can mount in your truck.
So you are having lovely weather? Well I am sure you took the top off so you could really enjoy it.
LOL

jacorob
Aren't you in Austin? I bet you live in the south/southeast side. I hope it is not someone in your complex. I hope you get it back and it is in good condition. Must of been a joy rider if they stole a civic.

I have heard good things about the viper alarm.
I leave my doors open and I don't leave anything of value inside it. If you want to leave some stuff, get a tuffy security product.

tintin2 · July 2001

I am considering a used Wrangler but am a little concerned about the reliability of the Jeep. Frankly, I was not even considering the Jeep, or any American built rig, until recently. I'm only looking at them now because of the price compared to the 4runner, and because they are surprisingly safe. Carpoint rates the Wrangler as a perfect 5 of 5 for reliability. What have you out there experienced? Also:
Is the Wrangler with the hard top warm in the winter? (I live in Montana)
Is there any storage room?

mtngal · July 2001

heberbay - I test drove a 4 cyl. up a steep city street, and thought that it would have problems handling my commute (the Wrangler is my winter commute car, because the Taco is not 4x4 and often can't get out of my driveway). The I6 can easily go up the infamous I5 Grapevine at 65 to 70 mph with the A/C on and not slow down at all, unless there is a headwind. Then I may have to downshift to 4th gear to maintain speed. So many auto cars and trucks can't do the same thing, including big trucks with their V8 or more engines! So if your use includes much highway miles, get the 6. And yes - the gas mileage is lousy.

As far as the Nissan pickup I had with 290,000 miles on it. We used just regular oil (10W30), not synthetic. We changed it every 3,000-5,000 miles or so. We had one oil leak fixed (a seal) and replaced the auto tranny twice (both times after we moved up to the mountains), within a year of each other. That's when we decided that manuals would be better for us. It seems like all the used vehicles up here (4,500 - 6,000 feet elevation) for sale either have new trannys or need tranny work!

I'm going to look at other seats for the Taco. If it weren't for the uncomfortable seats, it would be everything we need. One guy told me that you couldn't change the seats out any more because of government safety standards, but I think he just didn't do that type of thing. I know that you used to be able to do it, and from what I've seen here, it sounds like you can still do it. Guess it's time to look at aftermarket alternatives. I know it is a bit off topic, but does anyone have any suggestions?

And even though we are having such wonderful weather, I haven't gone topless. I have a hard top and no garage. And yes - this summer has been one of the times when I wish I did have a garage! On the other hand, the hard top sure came in handy this past weekend - we went to Vegas and it was too hot there for topless driving!

hotcoffee · July 2001

If any of you have a baby and find you need to get a 4dr 4wd vehicle- I found that the X-terra 5 speed is the next best thing.

Certainly not open air- but has a similar feel and is a capable off-roader for not a ton of money.

I do miss the Wrangler though.

sasquatch_2000 · July 2001

".... Now if I can just find that squeek... "

Have you looked for mice in the fenders?

sasquatch_2000 · July 2001

http://forums.vmag.com/jjwrangler0300/messages/1963.html

http://www.dirtroad.com/proj97tj.htm

sasquatch_2000 · July 2001

http://splorg.org/vietnam/gadget.html

(not really related, but it is neat, and mentions jeep 4 bangers)

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2001/03_mar/flowmaster/flowmaster.html

sasquatch_2000 · July 2001

Hey, you forgot me!!

I was posting here for a long time looking for info. I finally bought my 1997 Sport 2 weeks ago!!!

tsjay · July 2001

Sorry, Sassy! You probably have the worlds record for number of posts in here by a non-jeep-owner!

How could I have forgotten to mention you? The answer, obviuosly, is senility!

Hey, Alzheimer's isn't all bad... you get to meet new people every day!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

jacorob · July 2001

Actually i live in northwest austin - in the arb area off of jollyville. I have no idea why they'd steal a civic. I'm not the neatest person in the world and my civic was trashed inside. Also, most of the cars around my parking lot are nicer then mine. Hell, some people own porsches (or however you spell them) and have them parked just down the lot from me. Tons of grand cherokees, etc. And yet, they steal a civic.

*shrug*

Bob

tsjay · July 2001

Sorry that I was so long in responding to your post. Welcome to the board!

Your 4 cyl. vs. 6 cyl. question has come up many times in this group. It is almost unanimous that the 4 cyl is fine for local driving and for offroading. But, it is also most commonly believed that the power is not adequate for highway driving. I go along with that.

I test drove both an SE and a Sport, and this convinced me that, as much highway driving as I do (27 miles one way to work every day plus business trips occasionally of up to 300 miles one way), I needed the Sport with the 4.0 L I-6 engine.

You are getting this Jeep as a second family vehicle, so maybe you don't plan on taking trips in it, and, if this is the case, then the 4 cyl may be fine for your purposes.

Either way, you are definitely on the right track in considering a Jeep! They are a BLAST! I just wish that I had discovered the joy of Jeeps much earlier in my life. I was 51 last December when I got my first ever Wrangler.

Hope this helps, and please keep us posted on your progress in searching for a Jeep.

Check out my Jeep and my buying experience at my Thelma Jane's weg page....

http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

Feel free to email me with any questions. I am NOT an expert on the technical stuff about Jeeps, but I can sure tell you about the fun they are to own!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

pizzadude · July 2001

Hey everyone...

I just came back from a week long trip to New hampshire and Vermont with my jeep. Took the canoe along as well. I have one thing to say, nobody from New Hampshire or VT would wave to me. What is up with that??? Anyway, the real question here is:

How many out there with the 4.0 litre engine hear pinging all the time. I tried about 4 different brands of gas and they all ping. Not constantly or very loud, but enough that i notice it at 65-75 mph. in 4th and 5th gear. If anyone has encountered this and fixed it, I would appreciate advice...the engine has only 15k miles.

Thanks.

-pizzadude

tsjay · July 2001

Thelma Jane hasn't had that problem.

Sounds like the timing is a little too advanced, and that is controlled by the computer now a days, I believe. Take it to your dealer, and have it checked out.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

twylie · July 2001

OT: I'm headed to Maine in a few weeks but not taking the Jeep; renting kayaks and bikes while we're there for some recreation.

Did you try a different grade of gas (i.e. Plus or Premium)? I used to have to run Plus in the summer (when they put in the enviro-addiditives) to prevent my Supra from pinging. I guess the computer could only adjust the timing so much. Switching from 87 to 89-91 octane did the trick for me. As tsjay mentioned, sounds like a dealer trip (arrrghhhhh) may be needed. HTH

-twylie

dfahy68 · July 2001

To Jeep or Not to Jeep:

I would think seriously about what you want to do with your vehicle. First of all, there is NO storage room in a Wrangler, well okay, except for behind the rear seat which amounts to very little. If you want or need storage, go with a Cherokee. Secondly, the hard top is quite warm in the winter, mainly because the heater is so efficient, and it's a small vehicle. If you're considering a 4-Runner, you're already in a different class than the Wrangler. I've had a Wrangler for 2 years, and while it's a fun, year-round vehicle, it isn't the most comfortable ride. I wouldn't recommend a Wrangler as your primary vehicle. It's great on the weekends, but driving it every day wears on you. Good Luck.

jeepboy727 · July 2001

Ok Jeep people, a little help here. I have come across what I feel is a very good deal but I have a couple of concerns. It is a 2000 sport for 15000 but it doesn't have the 30 tire and wheels. It has 215's on it with 15x7 wheels. I know I can change the wheels and tires but is anyone familiar with whether or not you could have gotten the dana 44 without the 30's. Or if not, what is the difference between the 3.07 rear end and the 3.73 that comes with the 44. Is there that big of a difference between the two. How expensive or difficult is it to change that as well. Any Help as soon as possible would be appreciated.

wheelshigh · July 2001

dfahy68: Hey I have a 79 cj5 and I drive it everyday with 35 inch tires, stiff leaf spring suspension, and manual brakes. You've got a TJ which have a softer coil spring suspension....so why do you find it so uncomfortable? I would never trade my jeep in for anything and even though mine rides rough I enjoy driving it on the highway.

Jeepboy: Ok first why would you need the Dana 44? The dana 35 is not as strong granted but are you looking to put larger tires in excess of 33 inches and wheeling it hard? The 35 is plenty strong for most people's needs. The difference between the 3.07 and 3.73 gears is the rpm's on your jeep. 3.07s have a lower rpm and should get better gas mileage than 3.73. 3.73 gears would be better if you are looking to get tires larger than 31s. Changing the rear to a 44 later can be very costy and cause a headache but it can be done. If the jeep your looking at comes with the 44 get it but if it doesn't don't worry about your not going to need the extra strenght of the 44 unless your going to wheel it hard.

nkelly1 · July 2001

I like the inline 6, it has power. I can crawl up some pretty good inclines with it. I does scoot down the highway too, but out of the hole it walks right up hills. I highly recommend the six.
The family of 4 thing I'm not sure about, it depend how big everyone is. A "family car" it is not. For two people it is perfect, if the "kids" are little it should work well. As they get bigger, I don't think it will be very comfortable for the "back seaters".

I must, respectfully, disagree with dfahy68. We have found the wrangler to be very comfortable, on logging roads, ruts or the highway. We wouldn't hesitate to take it long distance.

Putting things on top of it will effect you center of gravity. I am opting for a trailer instead. We can get more "stuff" in one (they do make some that can convert and pull a small boat or canoe) and if I don't want to lug it around (depending where we are) I can always rent, an insured, place to store it for a week or so.

If you can afford it, I would go with a new one, with duel tops and the I6.

texasjeep · July 2001

tintin2
I think Jeeps are reliable. If you drive it hard and beat it on the trails well that could be a problem. Jeeps can have all kinds of problems with leaks or electrical problems or what not. But you should not have any mechanical problems different from other vehicles.
I wouldn't buy a Jeep over a 4runner because of reliability.
There is some storage space. It depends on how much and how many passengers you have. The back seat can be removed or folded up.

jeepboy727
That sounds like a good price.
I am not sure if you can get the Dana44 without 30s. I think in most cases it won't have it.

This site shows you how to identify the axle.
http://www.nationwideparts.com/differentials.htm

The cost to switch out gears is around $700. That would include the new gears and labor to do it. If your foot is light enough the Dana35 can work.

jacorob
Thieves have been breaking in to cars left and right here lately. Basically if they see something that might be valuable or contain something of value, they steal it. You may want to keep the car a little cleaner unless it is just thrash.
If the thieves see any clothes or bags they smash the windows and steal it.

pizzadude · July 2001

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I will be making an appointment for the garage next week I think. I did try higher grade of gas (89 octane) and that took the problem away I beleive. I wasn't satisfied with that because they say you should use 87 because that is what the computer is set up for. We'll see what the dealer says...

Twylie, have fun in Maine...beautiful country up there. We spent some time on Lake Umbagog...on the Maine, New Hampshire boarder.

I will be headed to the Finger Lakes in New York this weekend for some fishing derby fun with my father in-law.

have a good one!

Keep jeepin'

-pizzadude

madman390 · July 2001

Hey all! Just wanted to say that I am back in the good ole US of A. And the jet lag is killing me, but not as much as having to wait for my Jeep. But I am only a few days away now. It should get here by the 31st.

I'll keep you posted.

Madman

madman390 · July 2001

Just trying to get the Stars n Stripes above instead of the rising sun...

Madman390

tsjay · July 2001

WELCOME HOME!!!!!!!!

And, once again, thank you for serving our country and for the sacrifices you have made in doing so. Same goes for all of you service men and women out there.

Now, get that Jeep and have some fun!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

twylie · July 2001

Hey man! Glad you made it back home safe and sound. I can't even imagine jet lag form Japan. I know these last few days of waiting are brutal, but once the hot sun starts beating down on you in the TJ, all will be right.

-twylie

scomo · July 2001

Anybody see 2002 pricing & option packags online yet? There is a new "X" trim (watered down Sport), a few new colors & some option rearanging, but I don't know the specifics. And as usual, Jeepers are more informed that the dealers because my dealer knows absolutley "nada" on any 2002 info. Anyone help?

madman390 · July 2001

If this one shows up with a Japanese flag still, how do I change to the Stars and Stripes? I already changed my profile, and got rid of the "cookies."

Thanks.

And thanks for the warm welcome. It it really good to be back. I just have to finish this course, and then it's back to real work. But this is really a good break from work.

Tazz, does all of AL smell like this?

madman

stever · July 2001

Looks like you got it madman390; sometimes you have to logout and back on for your changes to show up.

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

bamatazz · July 2001

you mean that fresh clean air...
you must be used to smelling sushi all the time..

Glad to see you back on American soil mad man..
Hope you have a great Jeep Experience...

BT

dwrangler · July 2001

Sorry it's been so long since I've posted but I've been busy and a bit tired lately.

Hey Tom, what happened at the other site tonight? I can't seem to log on

Madman, glad to hear you're back. Now you have alot more opportunities to go wheelin' in that awesome jeep of yours.

Twylie, nice to see you're here too. Forgot about the chat Thursday night, it's been a really long and stressful week.

Saharagal, What do you do when you can't play tennis outside....table tennis

tex, how's the jeep handlin' these days?

Well if I've missed anyone, hope this note finds you well and happily boppin' along in those Jeeps.

Hug you Jeeps for me today

dwrangler

dwrangler · July 2001

What's been up with you? Parents are going down to my brothers in Bonne Terre MO so after running some errands tomorrow I may go to another dealer and drive another jeep. :-)

There must be a problem at the other site because I can't log in and it doesn't look like anyone else has been there either. Only 20 hits on the counter. Guess g is having problems again.

Hug your jeep for me today

dwrangler

dwrangler · July 2001

I too am a Jeep owner wannabe. I currently own a 95 Firebird and still owe on it for 2 more years on it but I am constantly trying to find ways to put back money so I can eventually get one. Trust me you are not alone, there are several people besides myself that long for the day that we will become official Jeepsters

As far as new or used I have talked to many Jeep owners on this site and others that have purchased both new and used, all are happy with their decisions. My personal preference would be for a new Jeep Sport with the 6 cylinder engine and soft top with full doors. I plan to get an automatic for the simple reason that I have problems every once and a while with my hip and have in the past had to deal with sprained ankles so the auto would be the best choice for me.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you chose, oh and post the photo

dwrangler

jacknimble · July 2001

I too considered buying used, but wanted a TJ with low miles. If you research the resale values, it makes little sense to buy used unless you are lucky enough to come across an unusually good deal. I sold my 97 Sahara for $16,800 after 3 years and 30k miles. I paid about 21k for it, so it lost only about $4k over three years - this has got to be one of the best resale values of any vehicle. Of course, if you dont have to have a TJ, there are some pretty good deals on YJs and CJs out there.

You should easily be able to get a new Wrangler at dealer invoice. Dont worry about talking to salemen, just research what you want, and then call the fleet manager to see what's available on their lot. If they wont sell at or below invoice, go to the next dealer.

drew_ · July 2001

of the '01 Wrangler Sport:

http://www.thecarplace.com/01jeep.htm

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

jacorob · July 2001

hahaha!!! His first "disclaimer" of what wrangler owners (his word "fanatics") would say is quite true. He doesn't get it, but not for the reasons he lists. he left out something that's obvious in his review: that he quite simply doesn't like jeeps. That's fine. Jeeps arn't for everyone. I wouldn't buy a lot of cars out there either. However, it seemed to me that he was trying to justify his personal opinion with a ton of (IMO) crap. Where there arn't facts he blubbers on with his fanatical opinion trying to make it sound intelligent. To me it sounds like a little kid exaggerating to make himself look good and sound like he knows something. He simply "doesn't get" how to write a serious review piece (not that i do either...). But it's his website so he can post whatever crap he wants.

His good stuff/bad stuff is a complete joke. I can think of quite a few more good stuffs (e.g. - the fact that it's a convertible 4x4! DUH!), and would argue about a lot of his "bad stuff" as being simply wrong (e.g - everything's an option is good as he later explains) or too stupid to even list (aero like a brick).

But for those considering a wrangler...

I have no problems getting in to the jeep - i can lift my leg up more then 2 inches - in fact it's easier for me to get in my jeep then drop down to the ground to get in to my civic. I can steer and drive through water easily - which apparently he's simply incapable of. I havn't experienced any of the problems he claimed. It isn't even as close to being as loud as he trumps it up to be - cept with the top down which is a no brainer - but he wasn't referring to that. Comfort? Heck, the wrangler is comfortable for me, much more so then my civic. I took a month long, nearly 7000 mile trek across the eastern US and never got tired of driving or experienced discomfort - noise or interior wise. He had a wrangler for a week and never put the top down! I wonder what the longest trip he took in it was? And what's with like 6 paragraphs complaining about how the wrangler doesn't come with a GPS? HELLO!!!! Last time i checked most higher priced SUVs don't come with it either! If ya want one go to the store and buy one. It might be cool if it was an option (though not worth 6 paragraphs). Of course i wouldn't get it for fear of it getting stolen.

Now I'll be the first to say that the wrangler is IMO an impractical vehicle for a lot of people. There's not much storage space - though i have more then enough since it's just me. It gets abysmal gas mileage. It's pry not a good family car (at least not the sole family car), though i've fit friends in the backseat and they weren't too uncomfortable - they were smiling and loving the top down driving. It doesn't really have ANY kind of security unless you get the hardtop. From reports i've seen it doesn't have a very good repair record - though i havn't had any problems with mine. I'd think any serious review of the wrangler wouldat least mention these two things - maintenance and security. But i guess he was too busy ranting about it not having an option for a GPS or going on about his "safety" review of which the first paragraph was the only one which had any facts behind it.

*shrug* but everyone has their opinion. I havn't regretted buying my jeep for an instant, and getting in to it still brings a smile to my face. And i love passing by other wranglers, smiling and waving, getting a wave back, and knowing that we both "get it".

Bob

PS - sorry for the rant. just kept typing.

tonkadave · July 2001

Thanks for that link. I agree with this guy on 3 of the things he said.
1. A big side impact near the door area could be disastrous.
2. Gas mileage is around 14 mpg
3. He just doesn't get it.

This guy seems to require all the refinements and ride quality that a luxury SUV offers, yet doesn't want to explore the jeep in its rightful place. If the Wrangler had all the appointments this guy would like, then what would you have? Another run of the mill SUV. Lets pretend I am a auto critic. I am going to rate an off road convertible like a Jeep Wrangler. But instead of using the criteria based on a off road vehicle, I use one based on a Lexus RX300 scale. Did he take it off road? NO. Did he take the top off? NO. Its clear why the "CAR PLACE" is not Motor Trend. I know what a Luxury SUV should be. Thats why I am ordering an Acura MDX for my wife. The Jeep does very well in the face of criticism like this. They consistantly sell 80,000 to 90,000 a year for just the same reasons this guy hates it.

tfrie · July 2001

Hey there fellow Jeepsters. I have caught the Wrangler Fever over the past few months and will be ordering one within the next two months. Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Dallas/Ft Worth Texas area?? My wife has a Cherokee but I just HAVE to have a Wrangler. I have enjoyed reading all of your posts and look foward to participating once I get mine.

Take Care,
John

mtngal · July 2001

You know, I love my Wrangler but I agree with him on many of the short comings he brings out. It is lousy in the wind (I've had a number of white knuckle moments on the I5 between Hwy 138 and Gorman because it is almost always windy), the steering at high speeds is touchy, and even with the hard top it is noisier than most cars. The ride is quite bouncy due to its short wheelbase, and it has little storage room, even with the back seat out (which ours is mostly - our dog wouldn't have it any other way!). Gas mileage is terrible.

At least the review concluded with the reason most of us buy Wranglers - for the fun! I bought mine because as a stock vehicle it could go places I wanted to go (off-road), where most other SUVs in my price range couldn't. I didn't get it for setting time records between home and work.

I would like to add a couple of other things - we find the seats MUCH more comfortable than the Tacoma's seats, and chose to drive it on a 3,000 mile (the approximate round trip mileage) trip from Southern California to northern British Columbia. The reasons? The seats are much more comfortable, and while it is louder than the Taco, it isn't that much louder. The ride isn't all that bad, and the seats make up for much of the stiffness (I have gas shocks and 30" wheels). The main reason I wanted to take it was because we were going in early spring, and we did run into snow. My wrangler has only gotten stuck once in the snow (and then we had 3 feet one night - even the snow plows were having a tough time). The Taco spent a couple of weeks sitting because my husband had just had surgery and I couldn't push it far enough to get it off the ice.

The fact that the wrangler is top heavy and a roll over risk shouldn't be ignored, but rather dealt with. I drive it slower up the Grapevine than I do the Taco (it also gets much better gas mileage at 60 than it does above 70). And that isn't such a bad thing. The drive is beautiful, and can be quite relaxing when I slow down to enjoy it. By the time I get home, I'm "de-compressed" from work. And if I've driven the Wrangler, I might even get off the I5 and take that dirt road that parallels it for a ways... Those people in their big SUVs and sports cars going 85 mph up here miss so much beauty, and probably would be much more likely to get in an accident than I will plugging along in one of the slower lanes!

The Wrangler isn't for everyone, as has been pointed out in previous posts. Until it gets better gas mileage I'll probably continue to own another commuter car. On the other hand, when I finally have to replace mine, I will definitely get another one. And I'll put up with the drawbacks just like I do now. I just hope that DC doesn't get caught up with all of this business that SUV's have to do everything for everyone, and try to copy other popular vehicles.

drew_ · July 2001

Tonkadave, to be fair, he did say that it was raining, so he couldn't take the top off. As for Motor Trend, don't get me started on how commercialised they are! ;-) Those Car of the Year awards are apparently all basically bought by the car company who is willing to spend the most amount of money (this info is from an ex-MT insider).

Hopefully more reviews like this will force DCX to redesign some of the things like the rear Pinto-like gas tank behind the rear bumper, as well as the thin side doors. That way, you can have fun and yet at least be safe at the same time. I'm not sure that I personally would like to be constantly worried about the threat of the rear tank leaking fuel in a rear end collision. I do admit that sometimes I've got to wonder how you guys enjoy yourself so much that you're willing to take the doors off completely! ;-) Then again, I don't even open my moonroof very much and my cabin air is electrostatically filter ;-) Good thing too or my pollen allergies would be worse than what they are.

I think what the author's point was that most people use these vehicles for on-road use and when compared to other vehicles in the same small SUV class (well, sort of), it's not very good in his view. Obviously you are free to agree or disagree with his opinions :-).

Bob, I did like how much the review talked about safety because at least consumers would read it and be aware of what they're getting into. It will be up to them to decide whether they're willing to give up certain safety features, etc. Those who view the glass as half empty may say that since it only takes one serious accident to kill you, the Wrangler would not be the vehicle he/she would want to be in.

Meanwhile, enjoy the ride!

Drew
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tonkadave · July 2001

I think after the 60 year history of jeeps in action, the whole world knows what it is and what it ain't. When they couldn't or wouldn't adapt the Land Rover Defender to meet US safety standards, they just pulled it off the market here. I'm just glad they still make the Wrangler. What would the USA be without a gas guzzling, cool looking, Short Wheelbase Off Road Convertable? That guy just ain't a jeeper. But we are.
footnote: He did give a nice review of your vehicle Drew, The Mercedes ML320.

jacknimble · July 2001

For someone that doesn't get it, his comments seem to be correct to me, and thats fine. The Jeep cant and shouldn't be perfect for everyone, otherwise if it were, it would look like a Honda.

How about some other autos with obvious flaws: Ferraris (EXPENSIVE to operate), Hummer (could just possibly be the hardest vehicle to live with anywhere outside of a desert), Viper (we dont need no stinkin top), Prowler (uh, where do I start?), etc. Still, each are wonderful in their own right and purpose.

We, the owners of these fun and capable vehicles get it, and thats all that matters to me. I dont feel the need for my choice of vehicles to be validated by others that dont get it. The author opines from a perspective that is very conservative - he probably has a fleet of Honda Accords. I cant believe he actually participated in a Gymboree [sic], much less in the Everglades.

tsjay · July 2001

If the Jeeps are so prone to fire from rear end collisions, how come I have never even heard of one occurrence?

I think that my chances of being involved in an accident are far lower in Thelma Jane than they would be in an ordinary vehicle. I realize that I am in a Jeep, and I slow down accordingly. Speed is just about the greatest factor in an accident.

By driving slower, I have the advantage of shorter stopping distance and more reaction time. I can avoid the sudden swerve that might throw a vehicle (any vehicle) out of control or even cause a roll over.

Also, I leave more space between me and the vehicle ahead of me, even though I have never been a tailgater anyway. If I have more space to work with between me and the car ahead, then I don't have to make an emergency application of the brakes when that guy stops suddenly, which means the car behind me isn't as likely to plow into the rear of my Jeep.

There are risks involved in anything we do. Simply using common sense can reduce the risks immensely. Maybe some vehicles are more forgiving when common sense is not used, but I don't want any major changes made to the Wrangler!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · July 2001

Welcome to the group! Hope you get that Wrangler! In the mean time, just stay with us and post your comments and questions.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · July 2001

I went out for some fast food breakfast junk this AM, and, of course, I had to make my swing throught the lot at the local Chrysler dealer.

They had a maroon Liberty that I checked out. I wasn't crazy about the color, and I still think the Liberties are ugly (but they are growing on me a little), but they sure have a lot of equipment and features for the price.

I had a '99 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 that didn't have any more features than that Liberty that I looked at this morning, but my GCL was stickered at $29,580, and this little Liberty was stickered at $23,515. Seems that the cargo room is the only thing that you would give up between the GCL and the Liberty. I guess the passenger room is probably less too, but without having test driven one, I can't say.

Those things ought to go over big, I would think. It's funny that the Liberty I looked at was stickered for about $300 less than what Thelma Jane was, and the Liberty gives you a V6, a four speed automatic, and a full time four wheel drive option.

Wouldn't trade even between the two, though! I would still much rather have Thelma!!!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · July 2001

I looked at the liberty a couple of times recently. The looks don't really bother me much (it isn't any worse than many other vehicles in it's class). There are lots of nice features, and while I didn't test drive it, it looks like it would do much better in the wind than my Wrangler. The price is right, and if the back seats folded down all the way, I would probably have driven home in one. I think that there is a place for both the Wrangler and the Liberty, and I hope that it will be sucessful. But it won't replace my Wrangler!

The Wrangler holds up pretty well in accidents, too. I came out much better than the guy in the pickup who moved into my lane without looking. We ended up hitting him and the freeway wall, and we drove away. He had to wait for a tow truck because his front end was toast! Definitely a tough little vehicle.

jacorob · July 2001

Bob, I did like how much the review talked about safety because at least consumers would read it and be aware of what they're getting into.

Drew,

I'm fine with safety reviews. I think they are extremely important. However, I prefer safety reviews that contain facts and expert knowledge rather then personal, unknowledgable conjectures. What was the basis for his claims that side impacts would be devastating and the rear gas tank is extremely dangerous? What are his qualifications to make such claims? Did he review past wrangler incidents before forming his opinion? Does he have any basis for his comparison of a pinto and a wrangler? Are there any cases of higher then normal (as to other placements of gas tanks) problems with the wrangler gas tank? Considering it's been around a long time I would assume a pattern would have developed by now. I'm not aware of any. Why was the proposal on placement of the gas tank rejected by lawamakers? These are much better questions to answer then spending it explaining why a GPS should be a standard or optional feature. Of course this is my UNEXPERT opinion that i have no real knowledge behind - much like the reviewer (unless i missed his qualifications somewhere though i doubt it). As i mentioned before the ONLY place he actually used facts as pertaining to the wrangler was the first paragraph. Everything else was unjustified supposition where the validity of the claims should be directly correlated with the knowledge and experience of the person writing it.

Personally i'm curious why _all_ vehicles don't get tested for side collisions by the NHTSA, especially the wrangler since a lot of owners take the doors off. Seems like it'd be a no brainer that a test should be run.

Bob

Jeep Wrangler

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