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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    Agreed on the dyno test and I have no idea what or how this "acquaintence" tested these cars - or even if they were cars from the same year. He did tell me that he was puzzled by the non-SC 3.8 producing different power ratings in the Gs and Ws - and his tested determined that there was a gap. I don't recall if it was as much as 5 hp.

    Now, he wasn't expert on the PCMs for the non-SC 3.8 (he owned a 2000 GTP) but suspected that at least part of the gap was programmed. If true, that much is most assuredly GM playing the exact sort of game that you (and I) suspect they are. Doesn't mean the numbers they are reporting are wrong though - nor does it suggest that they are the only car mfr doing this sort of thing to help distinguish lesser from more expensive models.

    Which brings us back to your original point - GM has long been playing games to keep the Corvette at the top of their own performance heap. None of us really expect that to change now do we?

    ice
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    No, I don't expect it to change either. I wish there was some way to stop that insanity though. Most people looking to buy a Corvette in the past would not likely be persuaded to get the Firebird or Camaro if the power rating was much closer to the Corvette. Same for a Bonneville vs an Impala. GM is shooting themselves in the foot. They have to put their best to the market because there are so many imports people are considering vs. the car they might down-rate.

    Hopefully, the next generation Corvette will produce an obscene amount of power thus opening up the window of possibilities for other divisions.

    I still suspect the GTO will really be doing 350 HP though. The best part will be the ready to go aftermarket intakes, throttle body (perhaps) and exhaust improvements that will take the GTO from powerful to downright brutal. Those are simple improvements. Upper 300's HP should be enough for most people.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I suspect that the GTO would be one car that will be placed on several dynos PDQ once they hit the market. So we will certainly see the extent to which the games-playing goes on this car.

    ice
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    The actual rated hp of the '64 Tripe GTO was a subject of great controversy.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    That's one of the few things about the 60s goat that I do well recall. Of course, most GTO discussions I recall were held in the late 70s and the fond reminiscences often blurred the distinction between gross and net.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    theiceman - you're right. It'll be dyno'd quick. On "Two Guy's Garage" (Speed Channel - actually it was "Crank and Chrome" at the time) they dyno'd a stock 2000 Corvette. Stock it was 265 HP at the wheels (almost 76% of 350 HP). With the K&N FIPK intake kit, it went to 286 HP! That's what I'm looking forward to. A couple of easy modifications and it's brutal.

    I've seen dyno's reported for other cars and sometimes I wonder about the "datum" or baseline or standard they are using. But anyway, 340 and 350 are pretty close. I'd expect about 75 or 76 % to the wheels and that should translate to mid 260's at the wheels. If it's 340 - upper 250's I guess. There is so much at play from day to day on a dyno though - mainly atmospheric conditions.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Plus a cam for additional low end torque with 20 ft lbs more.
    And a 3.46 axle ratio on both 6 speed and auto.

    http://media.gm.com/
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Way cool. More than that, they are making this thing a torque monster - which is more important. Peak torque is up to 365 now, but it sounds like the torque curve is way fatter than originally planned.

    It also sounds like this car might not need much modification for intake or exhaust. It seems this has been recently redesigned to achieve these better numbers. Maybe just toss in a K&N panel filter and you're done.

    Thanks for the link b4z.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Oh - and this car will be a true performer - quick acceleration times from any situation because it has lots of torque everywhere on the power curve - not just nice peak numbers.

    None of this great 0 to 60 if launched just right from 0 and then the "street start" (5 to 60) is well over 1 whole second slower - like all the "pocket rocket" crap (that are starting to cost almost as much as the GTO).
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    I don't recall if it was posted here at Edmunds but if you check the list of releases on June 6th, there was a release about the GTO exhaust that actually included sound clips.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Was so glad to see the following in the GM announcement: "The GTO also offers a conventional limited slip differential, which increases available traction by using both rear wheels to transfer power when one loses traction." Amen. The news is getting better and better. Hope the price is reasonable and the interior materials decent.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    Pontiac has updated the GTO section of their web site. Includes a color chart for outside, inside and dash. Lots of other info, but most interesting is estimated price of $33,000, with $695 for the 6-speed.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    montanafan... Does it show a gas guzzler penalty for the 6-speed manual? If so, what?
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    'cause I don't know how to drive stick :)
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    sorry I should have read the article :)
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    gmtv.feedroom.com

    no www. in front of url.

    Wait for it to load.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    the GTO will list for $33,000, the six speed manual will cost extra and the V8 will be rated at 350bhp.

    More at http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- - - _code=specials&loc_code=index&content_code=04062563

    Retro fans--the '05 GTO will get hood scoops!

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ffmcobaltffmcobalt Posts: 20
    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=818
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I would tend to agree. My Bonneville came with 235/55/17 RSAs and they were "okay". They didn't last all that long and, for that, I'm grateful.

    ice
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    tires and wheels are the easiest design elements to upgrade.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    Hard to argue with one so wise. And yet, I like the sounds of the '04 Bonneville GXP - and the fact that it's going to come standard with 235/50/18s. Probably RSAs again, though. Nice enough tires when new but still only H-rated - and not very grippy once you've put a few miles on them...

    ice
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    RS-A's are PURE CRAP. I know as i have them OEM on my 99 Taurus SLO. I've managed to baby them enough so I still have the originals on at 55,000 miles. Either these tires wear more than folks give credit for, or not enough wheelspins. With no low end torque I could see that being the case.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    But GM knows their market probably better than I do - right? I can't tell you how many cars I looked at 2 1/2 years ago where the wheel/tire combination was just pure garbage. Easily the most important performance upgrade and I can tell you that it isn't only GM that doesn't get that. Mind you, I was looking at "large cars with a performance bent". Sadly - and entirely inappropriately - I (briefly) included the Avalon in that hunt. For the money you had to fork out for that wannabe Buick, I couldn't believe that the standard rubber were 205/65/15s!!!

    Ever get into a discussion with car salesperson about tires? I did.

    me: Hey, those wheels look a little small for a car of this stature.
    he: Oh, I hadn't even noticed before. (bending over to squint at the "armour-all"ed donut) No, these are big enough - they're 15s. I've only got 14s on my Camry I think. You really don't need much more than that. Big tires are very expensive you know.
    me: But so is this car.
    he: But Toyota is interested in reducing your surprises down the road (tells me an "interesting" story about his uncle who paid $1000 for 4 tires!!!!)
    me: (thinking "whatever") Fair enough but that aspect ratio reminds me of Rosie O'Donnell.
    he: Huh?
    me: Jackie Gleason?
    he: Huh?
    me: The tires look um... "well-rounded".
    he: Well a car of this weight needs the grip.
    me: On the sidewall?
    he: That gives you cruising comfort.
    me: Uh huh. Does it come with bigger wheels?
    he: Let me see... (removes brochure from literature dispenser and flips to the back). Yes, you can order 16 inch wheels. With 205/60/16
    me: Wow - that's some serious rubber.
    he: (not getting the sarcasm) I think about 1/2 of the ones we sell come with the 16s but most of our customers don't care.
    me: Interesting - then why do they order them?
    he: Well, they come with some of the option packages.
    me: Can you get them alone?
    he: Probably - with a special order. But mostly they're bundled in with Nav, leather, or upgraded stereo packages.
    me: Because?
    he: I don't really know - you'd have to ask Toyota.

    and so it went... (I also learned some fascinating "advantages" of engines which run on premium fuel only).

    ice
  • obiwanobiwan Posts: 57
    I'm already planning my tire upgrade. I've been chatting a bit with the Aussies on the www.ls1.com.au message forum about what fits on the Monaro and what doesn't.

    I'm probably going to get some 275/40R18's for the rear (they should just fit) and some 245/45R18's for the front.

    Considering I was expecting $35K+ for my GTO, the $2K for wheels and tires isn't that big of a deal.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Pretty funny. Actually, most dealer salesmen know NOTHING about what's on the floor. It's pathetic.

    Still requires premium??? Too bad. The northstar's were redesigned to run on regular a few years ago and still perform as good if not better than their predecessors.

    Anyway, I'm still jazzed about the GTO. I don't know as much about tires, but I'll take your word for it. No doubt the tires will make a big difference in the performance numbers for this car. I can hear the magazine editors already lamenting the inability to get the torque from this specially tuned torque monster LS1 to the pavement.

    I will be looking at these cars in a few years - hopefully a low mileage used one. At that point it's not so bad to upgrade the tires. Hopefully in a few years all the usual hype will subside.
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    The GTO brochure says that the tires will be "W" rated (168 mph) not "H" (130 mph) as someone speculated.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I think the H-rated reference was mine and I meant it referring to the Bonnie's OEM tires. The RSA 225/50/17s are actually available in VR and WR rated versions.

    My bad.
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    Your cool, my bad call. Man some of these forums are getting so mixed up lately with other cars, I am loosing track left and right.

    And looks like GTO will be at the $1,000 GM Card rebate level for 2004. And I see that the GM Card will offer a master card with the GTO on it. Not sure if they will be doing the same in Canada with the Visa program.
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    Yes, the 2004 SLE will still be RSAs. Dosen't list brand for the GXP 18" "V" rated tires.

    http://media.gm.com hit the 2004 info link
This discussion has been closed.