Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Pontiac GTO
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The '05 GTO is not currently offered on the GMS-for-everyone promo (sales were TOO well last month). GMS price was "around" $30,300 for the stick, and $300-$500 more for the auto. You should be able to get one for the "GM In the Driveway" price, if you can get a GMS certificate - that's GMS + 4.5%.
I've only seen ads from a couple of dealers with '05's who wanted $28-$29k for their cars. Not a significant savings. There are a handful of new automatic '04's on dealer lots - should be in the $24-$25k range. Used '04's are in the $21-$23k range, with under 10k miles...
Oh, unless you are paying cash, part of the affordability of a car, used or new, is the finance rate. I am a credit union member and I "always" get pre-approved for a loan through my credit union BEFORE walking into a dealer. Then, I use a calculator like the one at BankRate.com to estimate the payments - never rely on the dealer's math.
Hope this helps,
--Robert
Secondly, if it were a "bad ground", wouldn't the horn sound continuously? (which it doesn't).
Why?
Many other vehicles have seperate "Prices Paid and Buying Experience" discussion; why not the GTO?
We already have a prices discussion for new GTOs here:
Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid & Buying Experience, and it's a pretty active topic :-)
Since this question was about new vs. used, I moved the post to this discussion, but the question would probably get decent feedback in the Smart Shopper Forum too.
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid & Buying Experience..."
DOH!!!
"...and it's a pretty active topic."
No posts since 7/05? Doesn't sound like it's all THAT active... :confuse:
Tomorrow I will take my '04 M6 GTO in for service, it is getting close to 13,000 miles. I am planning to do an oil change, not sure if I am supposed to use synthetic or not, original service writer said at first it came with regular oil, then on the second visit said it came with mobil1, so i think it has switched at least once between the two. I will also be having the flash done for the freaky gages, and the bright MPH. Am also having some steering shimmy looked into, the idle seems a little too high, and the key fob barely works. These are all mainly minor things, are there any other things I should have them check at this point, since I should still be within the new car free adjustment period. The power windows are also slow. Does anyone know if the Pontiac dealer in downtown Frederick MD is any good? THANKS!
Mark
For your '04: it came with dino oil, but other LS1's (Vette) come with synthetic. So do the '05's. I had my dealer change the oil over to synthetic before picking up my car (though, due to its replacement status, and the fact that it was the middle of January, it went right into storage).
Other things I would have them check out: if they have to remove the tires to balance them, have them double-check the struts and the inside of the tirewall to make sure there's no contact taking place. If there is, have them call TAC to get the special, revised alignment specs and to do an alignment on the car. I posted the specs a few messages back.
Balancing the tires: if they're not using a Hunter GSP 9700, don't even bother - the Hunter machine can do a road-force balance, as opposed to a regular "spinning" balance, which is less precise and less effective.
Rear axle bolts... there were some issues with these coming loose. A couple of folks have dropped the bolts/had the car just die while driving down the street. While this is not a TSB, there is a procedure that TAC knows about, with recommended torque specs and application of Loc-Tite. All '04 owners should have these checked periodically at service.
Not sure of the build date on your '04 but there were some issues with the driveline hitting the chassis on hard bumps or acceleration... there is a "thunk in the trunk" TSB which rectifies this. I think cars built after April are supposed to have this fix done already from the factory. BTW, the VIN tells the tale of when your car was built... the lowest '04 VIN I've seen is 176xxx, the highest 317xxx, and there were tons of rolling changes/fixes, most complete by VIN 260xxx...
Also, have them check the freeze plug on the engine - many '04's were leaking. Speaking of leaking, the batteries tend to leak/weep from the top - if yours is doing this, time to get it changed out.
BTW, if your power driver's or passenger seat movement seems jerky, there is a TSB for this procedure... dealer needs to order a part (I forget the details) to resolve this.
Double-check the paint on your front and rear fascias... some issues with peeling. Paint overall is an issue on the car (water-based paints are new to Holden and they're having issues with paint chipping, dirt in the paint, and white spots appearing).
I know others have posted questions... I've unfortunately got to run (get to drive the GTO 250+ miles today up to the EAA fly-in, oh darn!). I'll catch up later tonight...
Some GTO schematics and specs at http://www.myyellowgto.com (not my site - one from someone who is now a former '04 owner).
Hope this helps,
--Robert
The 2006 GTO (which will have an extended production run) will be the last model on the current platform. There will be no 2007 GTO.
There WILL be a 2008 or 2009 model year GTO, with more retro styling touches, on the Zeta platform, still built in Australia:
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e_20050728.htm
--Robert
Now I know that he should have parked it and put it in gear, especially when parked on any hill, but he isn't the brightest guy out there. Just curious, not trying to start any potential litigation. Being a GM employee, I would guess that there would be some negative connotations if he were to try to take it to court.
--Robert
His biggest problem is that he got it when they were giving them away. A 2 year one pay lease for 205/month. I'm guessing that will go up if he gets another one.
Spied: 2008 Pontiac GTO
All-new all-American Mustang fighter
By Editors of Motor Trend
Photography by Marc Cook
Motor Trend, May 2005
This one's a winner -- The design for the new GTO coming to Pontiac showrooms in 2007 as a 2008 model. The big, rear-drive sport coupe will be designed and built in the U.S., possibly at GM's Hamtramck or Wilmington plants, and it's likely to show up in concept form at a 2006 auto show, probably Detroit in January.
They did a free wheel balance but they didn't have the machine that Hammen talked about, and it helped little in the shimmy department. The shimmy isn't very bad and it's most noticeable when the tires are cold. They reflashed the gages and MPH and that seems fine. They decided the car came wth dino oil, so I went back. The mobil1 oil change was like 65 which seemed a bit high.
My drivers seat has the jumpy problem, will have them check that next time. I already had the thunk in the trunk fixed. I'll look at the inside tires myself, and I'll have them check the bolts and freeze plugs next time too. Thanks for the tips!
Call and speak with the service manager. Explain to him that the balance they did didn't fix the problem. Ask them to refer you to a shop with the Hunter GSP9700 so that they can do a road-force balance, and to have GM reimburse you for that (or have the shop bill them, either way). This is the only way to fix shimmy/vibration issues on newer cars with a very stiff body structure (my Aurora, and all of the other G-body FWD vehicles, have this issue as well). GM normally doesn't pay for alignments or balancing past 12k miles, and I think you said you were close or over that, so I wouldn't wait/would call them on this right away.
Re: the oil change, I've been buying the oil and filters myself (5 qt. jug of M1, $20 at Wal-Mart plus $5 for a 6th qt, and then either an M1 or NAPA gold filter for $6-$7). I keep meaning to do my own oil change on the GTO (have to remove 3 of the 4 bolts holding the huge skidplate on, and swing it out of the way), but never have time. My dealer will do it for $20 or so - makes the change about $51.
--Robert
Check out the '99 concept (which they supposedly based the design from) here:
Personally not a huge fan of it, but understand how it, and the retro-inspired hood, could interest people. The illustrations posted make it look like a recent (pre-'05) Mustang from the side, IMHO.
--Robert
Also, I had a problem in the past where the tire has a defect that caused a squriming between the tread and belts. This occured after about 25K miles. Since the problem seems worse when cold I'd make certain the problem isn't with the tire itself. The road-force balance may help determine this but I'm not certain.
Basically, this machine applies a counter-force to the tire (and rim), simulating the force of the road against the tire. It is able to measure whether the rim and or tire are round when rolling. It may be necessary to rotate the tire on the rim to reduce the amount of wobble. It may also be that the tires themselves are out of round, requiring replacement.
By the way, the KWDS on the GTO WILL flat-spot when sitting overnight. This will result in some vibration/annoyance, at least for the first minute or two of travel. It's this tendency to flat-spot which is the reason why the tire pressure gets pumped up to 60 psi before shipping - this eliminates the flat-spotting, but makes for an awfully uncomfortable ride and handling (not to mention, diminished suspension performance).
Hope this helps,
--Robert
You can install a K&N cone filter (they have kits for the '04's and '05's) without voiding your warranty. GM does have a TSB out for all their cars, warning that they may not cover a dead MAF sensor if the car's owner used a heavily-oiled third-party air filter, but that's about the worst thing you can do by installing the K&N. Lingenfelter and New Era also make intake kits for the GTO.
Regarding headers, this depends on your dealer. You should make friends with your service manager and ask them how far you can go. I'm sure headers and a cam wouldn't preclude them from warrantying, say, a battery, an ABS problem, et. al., but if you had driveline problems, that might be a problem. Depends on the dealer.
Regarding tweaking the computer, using a handheld tuner like a DiabloSport Predator
http://www.diablosport.com/GMappsPage.php
makes it very easy to tweak settings. The first thing this tuner does is back up your stock tune, so it's very easy (as long as your PCM is working) to restore the default settings back before bringing the car in for service.
Sorry for the delay in responding, hope this helps,
--Robert
I have heard the same from another GTO enthusiast. But, didn't Castrol change the formulation on this stuff? Previously was green, MY04, the new 05 stuff is brown. He's not happy, switched to M1 but is also considering Amsoil. Is doing a UOA on all three...
--Robert
needs to change his oil in another 1k miles
http://www.dynamic-control.com/EMAS%20II%20users%20group/EMASII%20Users/pinouts/GM160_2.pd- - f
On the '05 the PCM is under the heat sink on the driver's side of the engine bay. That's where the coolant reservoir was on the '04's, I think you have bad instructions.
If you are trying to hook up a remote start, you will need to have your second key, and a special adapter box, mounted somewhere in the cabin. Without the presence of one of your two keys, the immobilizer won't let the car start.
Hope this helps,
--Robert
Yes. The question is, if the motor supplier has prepared for the onslaught of 10,000 of the 22,000 (so far) U.S. 2004-2005 GTO owners suddenly having their seat motors fail, and demanding they get upgraded to the new ones :-)
--Robert
Not brown, but gold. I think the concensus is the stuff is still good, even though it's not green. The real test is to try it and listen to the engine. Typically you'll hear a (sometimes considerable) reduction in engine noise when switching from a 30 weight M1 product to GC 0W-30. M1 0W-40 is probably a little better, but still noisy, and T&SUV 5W-40 may be an even better choice than the 0W-40.
I'm also planning on doing a Used Oil Analysis... never done this before, but understand it can be useful to check the "health" of your engine...
--Robert
Here's the link if you want to see some of what's changed:
http://media.gm.com/us/pontiac/en/product_services/r_cars/r_c_gto/index.html
865 retail sales in July (6th through August 1), after the car was removed from the Employee Price For Everyone plan.
There are currently 2066 GTO's in inventory (versus 1750 at the start of the month). Amazingly, 168 of those are still 2004 models. The last batch of 2005's have left Australia (they're on one or two boats, not sure) and should arrive in Benecia, CA sometime this month. 2006 GTO production will start soon, and Pontiac is promising cars to Benecia in late October/to dealerships in late November. Year-to-date they've sold over 7700 cars, making over a 13,000/yr. sales rate (including those '04's). No word from Pontiac how many 2006's they will make.
The top states for GTO sales are California, Michigan, Florida, Texas, and New York.
The top cities are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Miami.
FYI,
--Robert
I for one fit in that category, I'll ask about one, but until they DEEP discount the GTO I'm on the side line. If GM would have put more enthusiasm into the car's exterior as they did in the sweet LS2, no doubt it would be selling like the Mustang.
That's my take on the GTO and the looks are sending it to an early grave. Watch you'll see!!! If it wasn't for the new sales program that GM started they would be toast. They should be worried, GM only seems to be able to sell cars that are deep discounted. All three of the US automakers are canniblising themselves with these sale and rebates. It seems to me that the market seems to only move at sales pricing, therefore, the market is really dictating the "true market price". Maybe they should just cut their MSRP to more realistic prices, instead of all these "willy-nilly" sales and rebates programs.
They sold nearly 1500 cars during the one month the cars were available at employee price (though the deal was actually better the month before, with incentives and finance rate taken into account).
You want one? Pony up (should still be able to get one for GM in the Driveway pricing), buy an '04, or buy used). Do NOT expect to see reduced prices on these cars - they are selling! Don't forget, Ford can make almost 200k Mustangs/yr. GM can import 12k GTO's in a year. They DON'T want to sell them anywhere near as fast as the Mustang - because they can't, and probably never will, make them anywhere near those quantities.
If you look at my post above you will see the car is selling well in areas where GM typically doesn't: LA, Miami, NYC.
I also think the tide of public opinion on the car is turning - the car did not deserve the bashing it got. And, not everyone wants an "in-your-face" car like the Mustang. I prefer the clean lines of my GTO, and the fact that it IS a sleeper in traffic (unless I stomp on the pedal, so others can hear the exhaust, and/or burn rubber).
Having said that, it's likely gone after 2006 (the contract with Holden was only for three years), to return as a 2008 or 2009 model year, with more Pontiac-themed styling. This may not be a good thing...
Remember, the 1964 goat was just a plain-jane Tempest with a big motor...
On this point:
Maybe they should just cut their MSRP to more realistic prices, instead of all these "willy-nilly" sales and rebates programs.
This is PRECISELY what GM is doing for the 2006 models. Only thing is, the GTO price isn't changing. Slow sales are NOT a problem for the 2005's.
--Robert
Thanx
I think this move will help resale of GMs and slowly wean people off rebates and incentives. Though GM is only revamping something like 30/70 of their models.
Are you saying the assembly plant in Australia is only CAPABLE of making 12k per year for the U.S. market? Bull. They were certainly CAPABLE of making 18k for 2004. Something tells me if the car was a smash hit with waiting lists at dealers, GM would find a way for that factory to make more than 12k per year.
"GM can import 12k GTO's in a year."
Is there some sort of trade agreement between the U.S. and Australia that I am unaware of regarding maximum exportation units per year? Weren't they able to import 18k units in 2004?
The fact is that the initial sales target for '04 was 18k units. Initial sales were slower than hoped by GM so to avoid have another large batch of cars languish on the lots for '05, GM decided internally that the number of units imported for '05 would only be 12k units. This was a DECISION made by GM.
It would be much more accurate to state that "GM will only make 12k per year" or "GM will import 12k GTO's in a year".
It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise. That said the GTO is selling much better this year then last year. In my area the 3 pontiac dealers don't have any 2004 or 2005 on their lots.
My interest in this car has completely faded. Reading about all the problems with the '05 on other boards has convinced me that this car is made for the type of owner that is ok with constantly dealing with warranty issues in exchange for that 400 hp. That's not me. Especially not for $30K.
BTW - be careful posting GTO sales numbers. The last time I did that I got in trouble with one of our fine hosts.
PS - Robert, glad to see you're a fan of the space program. Unfortunately the downfall of NASA was the creation of the United Space Alliance in 1996. Gave the contractors was to much management and engineering control. That started a talent drain at NASA that continues to this day.
Agreed. But, given the car's many merits the car really shouldn't need a tremendous amount of advertising. Sales ARE up compared to '04 models despite the little/no advertising. Look at it from a historical perspective; what were the sales numbers for the first year (or two) of the original GTO?
It just rubs me wrong when the numbers imported are presented in such a way that it sounds like GM had no choice and due to factors beyond their control but to limit the number brought over. AFAIK, the number imported was simply a corporate decision. We can argue all we want about whether or not the number decided on was valid or not. It doesn't change the fact that IF the GTO was selling like a house on fire, with months long waiting list around the country, that GM would somehow find a way to get more than 12k here (if not for the '05 models then certainly for '06).
Does anyone know the projected number of units for '06?