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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • nick02nick02 Member Posts: 1
    Hello, I am looking for a 2005 GTO, and was wondering if it would be a better choice to look for a used one to get a better price or not? Thanks
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...upon your tolerance for cars that might _possibly_ have been abused. This is far more likely in a performance car like the GTO, than in something like a Cobalt. If I were looking used, I would probably try to buy from a private seller, rather than a dealer, and hope the "gut feeling" from meeting the owner/seeing maintenance records, would overcome the concerns.

    The '05 GTO is not currently offered on the GMS-for-everyone promo (sales were TOO well last month). GMS price was "around" $30,300 for the stick, and $300-$500 more for the auto. You should be able to get one for the "GM In the Driveway" price, if you can get a GMS certificate - that's GMS + 4.5%.

    I've only seen ads from a couple of dealers with '05's who wanted $28-$29k for their cars. Not a significant savings. There are a handful of new automatic '04's on dealer lots - should be in the $24-$25k range. Used '04's are in the $21-$23k range, with under 10k miles...

    Oh, unless you are paying cash, part of the affordability of a car, used or new, is the finance rate. I am a credit union member and I "always" get pre-approved for a loan through my credit union BEFORE walking into a dealer. Then, I use a calculator like the one at BankRate.com to estimate the payments - never rely on the dealer's math.

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • coresellercoreseller Member Posts: 40
    :confuse: Ok, let's see if Hammen can answer me this: It has happened more than once now, but not regularly, maybe a total of 3 or 4 times. I will be driving down the road and the horn will honk very briefly, like I touched the lock button (which I'm sure I didn't) on the key. It has occurred driving through our subdivision at 20 to 25 MPH, it has happened on 2 lane backroads going 50 to 60 MPH, on the highway also. It happens completely out of the blue, no message or idiot light appears on the dash either, any ideas on what's going on?
  • 05midblue05midblue Member Posts: 20
    I've seen this issue on much older cars (pre-airbag) and learned that the contacts for the horn are a little more archaic than I expected. The contacts can relax after time causing a false trip, however it sounds like yours were just installed wrong. Robert probably has a more accurate description for this, but it sounds like you should pay your service person a visit. If the problem is by the airbag, I'd recommend against the DIY job. Come to thing of it, maybe you have a bad ground somewhere between your horn and your steering wheel. Good luck with that one.
  • gxpgtodanmangxpgtodanman Member Posts: 210
    I had this problem happen on a previous GTP I owned, only once in a while, every 4 months and never bothered with it. It kiind of went away.
  • tolenashtolenash Member Posts: 52
    You are not alone.... I have the mysterious beep also. every few weeks, at random speeds and driving conditions (day/night, wipers on/off, radio/cd). Nothing makes a difference.

    Secondly, if it were a "bad ground", wouldn't the horn sound continuously? (which it doesn't).
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I noticed you closed down the discussion regarding GTO prices and purchasing.

    Why?

    Many other vehicles have seperate "Prices Paid and Buying Experience" discussion; why not the GTO?
  • 05midblue05midblue Member Posts: 20
    If a ground wire is pinched, or an isolating groment is cracked such that a connection is made only on a hot day when going around a sharp corner and hitting a bump... well then I certainly wouldn't clasify the intermittent gorund as a good one (unless you like the sound of your horn)! Just a thought. I'd start at your horn and work your way back. Loosen the horn mount and wiggle it to see if that sets it off.
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Hi, rorr,

    We already have a prices discussion for new GTOs here:
    Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid & Buying Experience, and it's a pretty active topic :-)

    Since this question was about new vs. used, I moved the post to this discussion, but the question would probably get decent feedback in the Smart Shopper Forum too.

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "We already have a prices discussion for new GTOs here:
    Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid & Buying Experience..."


    DOH!!! :blush:

    "...and it's a pretty active topic."

    No posts since 7/05? Doesn't sound like it's all THAT active... :confuse:
  • dat2dat2 Member Posts: 251
    Hammen2 (and anyone else than wants to comment)...
    Tomorrow I will take my '04 M6 GTO in for service, it is getting close to 13,000 miles. I am planning to do an oil change, not sure if I am supposed to use synthetic or not, original service writer said at first it came with regular oil, then on the second visit said it came with mobil1, so i think it has switched at least once between the two. I will also be having the flash done for the freaky gages, and the bright MPH. Am also having some steering shimmy looked into, the idle seems a little too high, and the key fob barely works. These are all mainly minor things, are there any other things I should have them check at this point, since I should still be within the new car free adjustment period. The power windows are also slow. Does anyone know if the Pontiac dealer in downtown Frederick MD is any good? THANKS!
  • 05midblue05midblue Member Posts: 20
    I'm working on installing an aftermarket car alarm/remote start and things were going smooth until I was prompted to find the tach sensor wire. This is also the wire you need to locate for an aftermarket tach ( a little obvious from the name, sorry). Before cutting any wires, I'm labeling everything and am stumped at this one. Some corvette guys say that you can find it either at the PCM or under the dash. Does anyone have pictures of this, or a good description? Thanks,

    Mark
  • coresellercoreseller Member Posts: 40
    Hey Hammen, ain't it great to be the Guru? Just kidding, Mr. Hammen is THE source. I thought I'd throw in a couple of things since I've just been through a couple of issues you've brought up. Steering shimmy, balanced and rotated all 4 tires and it is gone. First few oil changes were done with dino (regular) oil, last one just performed and went with synthetic, beleive it or not I actually notice a little difference in idle and overall smoothness in the motor. Good luck, 22k miles and no problems (honk) thus far, knock on wood.....Mark. :shades:
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Sorry guys, I've been swamped both at work and personally... have only had time to "hit and run" the board, and am at least 20 messages behind in replies.

    For your '04: it came with dino oil, but other LS1's (Vette) come with synthetic. So do the '05's. I had my dealer change the oil over to synthetic before picking up my car (though, due to its replacement status, and the fact that it was the middle of January, it went right into storage).

    Other things I would have them check out: if they have to remove the tires to balance them, have them double-check the struts and the inside of the tirewall to make sure there's no contact taking place. If there is, have them call TAC to get the special, revised alignment specs and to do an alignment on the car. I posted the specs a few messages back.

    Balancing the tires: if they're not using a Hunter GSP 9700, don't even bother - the Hunter machine can do a road-force balance, as opposed to a regular "spinning" balance, which is less precise and less effective.

    Rear axle bolts... there were some issues with these coming loose. A couple of folks have dropped the bolts/had the car just die while driving down the street. While this is not a TSB, there is a procedure that TAC knows about, with recommended torque specs and application of Loc-Tite. All '04 owners should have these checked periodically at service.

    Not sure of the build date on your '04 but there were some issues with the driveline hitting the chassis on hard bumps or acceleration... there is a "thunk in the trunk" TSB which rectifies this. I think cars built after April are supposed to have this fix done already from the factory. BTW, the VIN tells the tale of when your car was built... the lowest '04 VIN I've seen is 176xxx, the highest 317xxx, and there were tons of rolling changes/fixes, most complete by VIN 260xxx...

    Also, have them check the freeze plug on the engine - many '04's were leaking. Speaking of leaking, the batteries tend to leak/weep from the top - if yours is doing this, time to get it changed out.

    BTW, if your power driver's or passenger seat movement seems jerky, there is a TSB for this procedure... dealer needs to order a part (I forget the details) to resolve this.

    Double-check the paint on your front and rear fascias... some issues with peeling. Paint overall is an issue on the car (water-based paints are new to Holden and they're having issues with paint chipping, dirt in the paint, and white spots appearing).

    I know others have posted questions... I've unfortunately got to run (get to drive the GTO 250+ miles today up to the EAA fly-in, oh darn!). I'll catch up later tonight...

    Some GTO schematics and specs at http://www.myyellowgto.com (not my site - one from someone who is now a former '04 owner).

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    OK, I've known this for over a month, and was trying to hint at this earlier, but here's the official confirmation:

    The 2006 GTO (which will have an extended production run) will be the last model on the current platform. There will be no 2007 GTO.

    There WILL be a 2008 or 2009 model year GTO, with more retro styling touches, on the Zeta platform, still built in Australia:

    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e_20050728.htm

    --Robert
  • elkiiielkiii Member Posts: 50
    Just goes to show how psycho GM is. No NA rear wheel drive on Zeta. No wait, we really didn't mean it. Well, maybe we did. No, we didn't. Arrrrrrgh!
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    I know your busy, and I could probably ask my service reps here but I don't think I'd get an honest answer. Have you heard of any problems with the ebrakes? A buddy of mine just had his totalled. He had it sitting in front of his house running with the brake on while he ran into his house to give his wife a pack of cigarettes, and the brake let go. His car hit two other cars, rolled down the hillside, smashed a few trees in the process.

    Now I know that he should have parked it and put it in gear, especially when parked on any hill, but he isn't the brightest guy out there. Just curious, not trying to start any potential litigation. Being a GM employee, I would guess that there would be some negative connotations if he were to try to take it to court.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    No I haven't heard of a widespread problem. I did have an experience the other night, though - applied the e-brake when I parked the car (auto, force of habit from the old early 90's W-body days, where applying the e-brake was a necessity to prolong rear brake life). When I got out of the concert, wanted out of there ASAP, so I backed the car out of the spot, put it into D and noticed I wasn't going anywhere... until my passenger pointed out the e-brake was still set (normally, the GTO plays a little tune if you try to put the car into gear with the e-brake set). Interesting that I could put it into reverse no problem, but the e-brake only stopped the car from rolling forward. What direction did your buddy's car roll?

    --Robert
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    It rolled forward. Right now he isn't a fan of Sir Isaac Newton and his whole gravity idea. I think he mentioned Fred Flintstone and the wheel too, but I'm not so sure he's right about that one.

    His biggest problem is that he got it when they were giving them away. A 2 year one pay lease for 205/month. I'm guessing that will go up if he gets another one.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    According to motortrend:

    Spied: 2008 Pontiac GTO
    All-new all-American Mustang fighter

    By Editors of Motor Trend
    Photography by Marc Cook
    Motor Trend, May 2005

    This one's a winner -- The design for the new GTO coming to Pontiac showrooms in 2007 as a 2008 model. The big, rear-drive sport coupe will be designed and built in the U.S., possibly at GM's Hamtramck or Wilmington plants, and it's likely to show up in concept form at a 2006 auto show, probably Detroit in January.

    image
    image
    image
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    I think they're trying to get their stock price up!
  • dat2dat2 Member Posts: 251
    Hey Hammen and Coreseller--
    They did a free wheel balance but they didn't have the machine that Hammen talked about, and it helped little in the shimmy department. The shimmy isn't very bad and it's most noticeable when the tires are cold. They reflashed the gages and MPH and that seems fine. They decided the car came wth dino oil, so I went back. The mobil1 oil change was like 65 which seemed a bit high.

    My drivers seat has the jumpy problem, will have them check that next time. I already had the thunk in the trunk fixed. I'll look at the inside tires myself, and I'll have them check the bolts and freeze plugs next time too. Thanks for the tips! :)
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    they didn't have the machine that Hammen talked about, and it helped little in the shimmy department

    Call and speak with the service manager. Explain to him that the balance they did didn't fix the problem. Ask them to refer you to a shop with the Hunter GSP9700 so that they can do a road-force balance, and to have GM reimburse you for that (or have the shop bill them, either way). This is the only way to fix shimmy/vibration issues on newer cars with a very stiff body structure (my Aurora, and all of the other G-body FWD vehicles, have this issue as well). GM normally doesn't pay for alignments or balancing past 12k miles, and I think you said you were close or over that, so I wouldn't wait/would call them on this right away.

    Re: the oil change, I've been buying the oil and filters myself (5 qt. jug of M1, $20 at Wal-Mart plus $5 for a 6th qt, and then either an M1 or NAPA gold filter for $6-$7). I keep meaning to do my own oil change on the GTO (have to remove 3 of the 4 bolts holding the huge skidplate on, and swing it out of the way), but never have time. My dealer will do it for $20 or so - makes the change about $51.

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Yep, the description of the original Zeta GTO I received sounded like the front end of that car looks.

    Check out the '99 concept (which they supposedly based the design from) here:

    image

    Personally not a huge fan of it, but understand how it, and the retro-inspired hood, could interest people. The illustrations posted make it look like a recent (pre-'05) Mustang from the side, IMHO.

    --Robert
  • elkiiielkiii Member Posts: 50
    Hammen, does the GSP9700 balance the wheel/brake assembly on the car? The reason I ask is that I've also encountered a situation where a replacement rotor was just slightly out of balance. I replaced the rotor and solved the problem because I couldn't find a shop that could balance the entire assembly. Knowing what to ask for in the future would be helpful.

    Also, I had a problem in the past where the tire has a defect that caused a squriming between the tread and belts. This occured after about 25K miles. Since the problem seems worse when cold I'd make certain the problem isn't with the tire itself. The road-force balance may help determine this but I'm not certain.
  • elkiiielkiii Member Posts: 50
    Meant to get back to you on this. Check Sharrett in Hargerstown or Burdette in Hyattstown. One of them might have the machine hammen describes.
  • elkiiielkiii Member Posts: 50
    Geez, this almost looks like an update to the firebird to me.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Info, and a shop locator, can be found at http://www.gsp9700.com/

    Basically, this machine applies a counter-force to the tire (and rim), simulating the force of the road against the tire. It is able to measure whether the rim and or tire are round when rolling. It may be necessary to rotate the tire on the rim to reduce the amount of wobble. It may also be that the tires themselves are out of round, requiring replacement.

    By the way, the KWDS on the GTO WILL flat-spot when sitting overnight. This will result in some vibration/annoyance, at least for the first minute or two of travel. It's this tendency to flat-spot which is the reason why the tire pressure gets pumped up to 60 psi before shipping - this eliminates the flat-spotting, but makes for an awfully uncomfortable ride and handling (not to mention, diminished suspension performance).

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    do you know what performance mods I can make to my 05 that will not void the warranty. I would assume a ram air kit would be ok but what about headers? I know tweaking the computer is out of the question unless you are able to change the settings back to factory specs before being serviced.

    You can install a K&N cone filter (they have kits for the '04's and '05's) without voiding your warranty. GM does have a TSB out for all their cars, warning that they may not cover a dead MAF sensor if the car's owner used a heavily-oiled third-party air filter, but that's about the worst thing you can do by installing the K&N. Lingenfelter and New Era also make intake kits for the GTO.

    Regarding headers, this depends on your dealer. You should make friends with your service manager and ask them how far you can go. I'm sure headers and a cam wouldn't preclude them from warrantying, say, a battery, an ABS problem, et. al., but if you had driveline problems, that might be a problem. Depends on the dealer.

    Regarding tweaking the computer, using a handheld tuner like a DiabloSport Predator
    http://www.diablosport.com/GMappsPage.php
    makes it very easy to tweak settings. The first thing this tuner does is back up your stock tune, so it's very easy (as long as your PCM is working) to restore the default settings back before bringing the car in for service.

    Sorry for the delay in responding, hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Made in Germany Castrol Syntec 0W-30 is also a very excellent oil for the Gen-III small block (actually, all of them). You have to make sure the bottle says made in germany on the back though. The USA blend stuff isn't the same! And the label has to be red, not yellow.

    I have heard the same from another GTO enthusiast. But, didn't Castrol change the formulation on this stuff? Previously was green, MY04, the new 05 stuff is brown. He's not happy, switched to M1 but is also considering Amsoil. Is doing a UOA on all three...

    --Robert
    needs to change his oil in another 1k miles
  • 05midblue05midblue Member Posts: 20
    Well I've now spent two solid evenings looking for the Tach Sensor wire. Some say that it can be found in Brown/Red pin 25 in the white plug next to the clutch. I do not have a wire in pin 25, none. Nor do I have a brown/red wire in that harness. I've also heard that it is a white wire in pin 10 of the PCM. I think you need to be Houdini with a jack in order to even access the PCM. I can't even reach the damn box under the coolant reservoir (supposedly where the PCM is) to get at it. I'm going nuts. My local installer wants 500 bucks for just the labor for a remote start install on my car. I've located all 36+ other wires and am ready to move forward except I can't find the tach sensor. I truly am going bananas trying to find it. Please Please Please Help Where is the tach sensor wire?.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I do believe it's pin 10 on the PCM:

    http://www.dynamic-control.com/EMAS%20II%20users%20group/EMASII%20Users/pinouts/GM160_2.pd- - f

    On the '05 the PCM is under the heat sink on the driver's side of the engine bay. That's where the coolant reservoir was on the '04's, I think you have bad instructions.

    If you are trying to hook up a remote start, you will need to have your second key, and a special adapter box, mounted somewhere in the cabin. Without the presence of one of your two keys, the immobilizer won't let the car start.

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • gxpgtodanmangxpgtodanman Member Posts: 210
    I had the dealer hook up the remote start on my 2005 GTO, if there is a problem they are responsible. It was worth the extra money and I still have BOTH my keys.
  • 05midblue05midblue Member Posts: 20
    Boy that sounds like a good idea right now. The dealer told me that he wouldn't do it though. Now my horn beeps three times and my door locks are all screwed up. in one of these threads it addresses this but I can't remember which one. I'm an idiot.
  • gxpgtodanmangxpgtodanman Member Posts: 210
    The only negative is that the dealer, my Pontiac dealer charges a lot about $299 or $399 for remote start installation. I guess it depends on the dealer, the ones in NJ and NY do it. After some problems I had with a stereo/alarm installer in the late 1990's, I will only have mfg/dealer do it from now on.
  • tolenashtolenash Member Posts: 52
    But did they speed up those darn front seat motors....?
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    But did they speed up those darn front seat motors....?

    Yes. The question is, if the motor supplier has prepared for the onslaught of 10,000 of the 22,000 (so far) U.S. 2004-2005 GTO owners suddenly having their seat motors fail, and demanding they get upgraded to the new ones :-)

    --Robert
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    But, didn't Castrol change the formulation on this stuff? Previously was green, MY04, the new 05 stuff is brown.

    Not brown, but gold. I think the concensus is the stuff is still good, even though it's not green. The real test is to try it and listen to the engine. Typically you'll hear a (sometimes considerable) reduction in engine noise when switching from a 30 weight M1 product to GC 0W-30. M1 0W-40 is probably a little better, but still noisy, and T&SUV 5W-40 may be an even better choice than the 0W-40.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Yeah, I know what you mean about engine noise... my car, idling at a stoplight, has a bit of a "sewing machine" sound to it. I've "heard" that this "goes away" if you use M1 0W-40 or the German Castrol... will try it myself in another 1k miles when I do an oil change.

    I'm also planning on doing a Used Oil Analysis... never done this before, but understand it can be useful to check the "health" of your engine...

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I posted this link and some of the text, but the Edmunds Forum Leaders thought it might present a copyright issue, so they removed the post.

    Here's the link if you want to see some of what's changed:

    http://media.gm.com/us/pontiac/en/product_services/r_cars/r_c_gto/index.html
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    GM Sales Results

    865 retail sales in July (6th through August 1), after the car was removed from the Employee Price For Everyone plan.
    There are currently 2066 GTO's in inventory (versus 1750 at the start of the month). Amazingly, 168 of those are still 2004 models. The last batch of 2005's have left Australia (they're on one or two boats, not sure) and should arrive in Benecia, CA sometime this month. 2006 GTO production will start soon, and Pontiac is promising cars to Benecia in late October/to dealerships in late November. Year-to-date they've sold over 7700 cars, making over a 13,000/yr. sales rate (including those '04's). No word from Pontiac how many 2006's they will make.

    The top states for GTO sales are California, Michigan, Florida, Texas, and New York.
    The top cities are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Miami.

    FYI,

    --Robert
  • omegagenomegagen Member Posts: 67
    Though the '05 GTO is beast muscle car-wise, it just hasn't caught the attention of the "buying public". Sure people will ask about one if you're driving a GTO, but it's obvious that asking about one is all they're willing to do.

    I for one fit in that category, I'll ask about one, but until they DEEP discount the GTO I'm on the side line. If GM would have put more enthusiasm into the car's exterior as they did in the sweet LS2, no doubt it would be selling like the Mustang.

    That's my take on the GTO and the looks are sending it to an early grave. Watch you'll see!!! If it wasn't for the new sales program that GM started they would be toast. They should be worried, GM only seems to be able to sell cars that are deep discounted. All three of the US automakers are canniblising themselves with these sale and rebates. It seems to me that the market seems to only move at sales pricing, therefore, the market is really dictating the "true market price". Maybe they should just cut their MSRP to more realistic prices, instead of all these "willy-nilly" sales and rebates programs.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    They can only make 12k per year. At the current sales pace, they would sell more than they can make in a year. At this pace they will be sold out before the 2006's make it to dealers in quantity. Why should they lower the price?

    They sold nearly 1500 cars during the one month the cars were available at employee price (though the deal was actually better the month before, with incentives and finance rate taken into account).

    You want one? Pony up (should still be able to get one for GM in the Driveway pricing), buy an '04, or buy used). Do NOT expect to see reduced prices on these cars - they are selling! Don't forget, Ford can make almost 200k Mustangs/yr. GM can import 12k GTO's in a year. They DON'T want to sell them anywhere near as fast as the Mustang - because they can't, and probably never will, make them anywhere near those quantities.

    If you look at my post above you will see the car is selling well in areas where GM typically doesn't: LA, Miami, NYC.

    I also think the tide of public opinion on the car is turning - the car did not deserve the bashing it got. And, not everyone wants an "in-your-face" car like the Mustang. I prefer the clean lines of my GTO, and the fact that it IS a sleeper in traffic (unless I stomp on the pedal, so others can hear the exhaust, and/or burn rubber).

    Having said that, it's likely gone after 2006 (the contract with Holden was only for three years), to return as a 2008 or 2009 model year, with more Pontiac-themed styling. This may not be a good thing...

    Remember, the 1964 goat was just a plain-jane Tempest with a big motor...

    On this point:
    Maybe they should just cut their MSRP to more realistic prices, instead of all these "willy-nilly" sales and rebates programs.

    This is PRECISELY what GM is doing for the 2006 models. Only thing is, the GTO price isn't changing. Slow sales are NOT a problem for the 2005's.

    --Robert
  • mustang_svtmustang_svt Member Posts: 23
    I've got an '05 A4 ... and a slight problem. On certain bumps I get a clanking sound from the suspension. Mentioned it to the dealer at oil change time and they did say they found a loose plate underneath and tightened it up. I asked the service writer to point it out to me but he was unsure and the mechanics had gone home for the day. The sound did disappear for a day, but now, one week later, its back in full force. You'd think with the 18 miles that were put on it while in the care of the dealer that they would have nailed this thing. Is anyone else getting this sound, and if so, what has been the cure? I'd like to provide some hints to the service writer when this thing goes back.

    Thanx
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    This is PRECISELY what GM is doing for the 2006 models. Only thing is, the GTO price isn't changing.

    I think this move will help resale of GMs and slowly wean people off rebates and incentives. Though GM is only revamping something like 30/70 of their models.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "They can only make 12k per year."

    Are you saying the assembly plant in Australia is only CAPABLE of making 12k per year for the U.S. market? Bull. They were certainly CAPABLE of making 18k for 2004. Something tells me if the car was a smash hit with waiting lists at dealers, GM would find a way for that factory to make more than 12k per year.

    "GM can import 12k GTO's in a year."

    Is there some sort of trade agreement between the U.S. and Australia that I am unaware of regarding maximum exportation units per year? Weren't they able to import 18k units in 2004?

    The fact is that the initial sales target for '04 was 18k units. Initial sales were slower than hoped by GM so to avoid have another large batch of cars languish on the lots for '05, GM decided internally that the number of units imported for '05 would only be 12k units. This was a DECISION made by GM.

    It would be much more accurate to state that "GM will only make 12k per year" or "GM will import 12k GTO's in a year".
  • gxpgtodanmangxpgtodanman Member Posts: 210
    You are correct, because of lack of GTO sales in 2004 GM reduced production from 18k cars to 12k cars for 2005.

    It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise. That said the GTO is selling much better this year then last year. In my area the 3 pontiac dealers don't have any 2004 or 2005 on their lots.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    In a few months there could be '04, '05, and '06 GTOs on the same greedy dealer's lot. There are plenty of '05s available around here. How many of the 7700 sold this year were '04s? I'm guessing about 15-20%. GM doesn't seem too anxious for that info to come out. They only want to talk about huge sales increases over last years terrible sales numbers. Rorr is right. They reduced the production number so they won't get stuck with a ton of cars that they have to unload at fire sale prices in the Fall (like last year).

    My interest in this car has completely faded. Reading about all the problems with the '05 on other boards has convinced me that this car is made for the type of owner that is ok with constantly dealing with warranty issues in exchange for that 400 hp. That's not me. Especially not for $30K.

    BTW - be careful posting GTO sales numbers. The last time I did that I got in trouble with one of our fine hosts.

    PS - Robert, glad to see you're a fan of the space program. Unfortunately the downfall of NASA was the creation of the United Space Alliance in 1996. Gave the contractors was to much management and engineering control. That started a talent drain at NASA that continues to this day.
  • sensaisensai Member Posts: 129
    Just what problems are you reading about? Almost 9k miles on my 05 and the only thing I need to have fixed is a slight rattle somewhere around the door lock. You can go to any car board from a Toyota to a Ferrari and read about tons of problems because people post when they have problems, not when they are problem free.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise."

    Agreed. But, given the car's many merits the car really shouldn't need a tremendous amount of advertising. Sales ARE up compared to '04 models despite the little/no advertising. Look at it from a historical perspective; what were the sales numbers for the first year (or two) of the original GTO?

    It just rubs me wrong when the numbers imported are presented in such a way that it sounds like GM had no choice and due to factors beyond their control but to limit the number brought over. AFAIK, the number imported was simply a corporate decision. We can argue all we want about whether or not the number decided on was valid or not. It doesn't change the fact that IF the GTO was selling like a house on fire, with months long waiting list around the country, that GM would somehow find a way to get more than 12k here (if not for the '05 models then certainly for '06).

    Does anyone know the projected number of units for '06?
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