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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • cracoviancracovian Member Posts: 337
    Good try, elias, but just like privetotruski said 'cracovian' is Polish. It refers to the beautiful city of Cracow where, as the matter of fact, one of Spielberg's movies was shot, however, it was "Schindler's List" and not "The Terminal". He must have gotten inspired by that name though when he invented the fictional country of Krakozia (sp?)

    My brother almost imported the '04 Goat to Warsaw (the price then was sooo good) but he ended up with the Honda Pilot instead. Good for him; he'd be in big trouble now - he's much taller than I am ;-) He would probably have to get the part from Britain where they're sold as Vauxhall Monaros...
  • dburger66dburger66 Member Posts: 10
    Got a question... I have read a lot about people upping the horses on their GTO's, can anyone tell me what kind of power the drive train can safely handle? I have been planning on various power upgrade to my '05 but I'd hate to do that and find the rest of the drive train can't handle the engine. :sick:
  • mitsurobmitsurob Member Posts: 38
    I thought I had seen posted here that some folks upgraded their stereo speakers. I just turned over 1,000 miles and I'm beginning to think my speakers/sound quality from my 02 Bonneville had better overall sound. For some reason i just don't think the factory speakers have enough overall depth. The bass is not all that good either. Has anyone changed out their factory speakers and has the quality (and bass level) improved with after market speakers? Did you change all speakers or which ones should I focus on replacing for the best effect? I would like to try this change-over myself, but would likely have a professional audio store do it.
  • ausstarausstar Member Posts: 21
    For some reason i just don't think the factory speakers have enough overall depth. The bass is not all that good either.

    Robert pointed out about 3 pages ago that you can change the output on your stock sound system. I did and it made a large difference.
    OPen the boot, trunk.. peel back the laeft wall of carpet... on a metal plate between the gas tank and the fender is the amp for the system. REach around and you will feel the output nob. Turn it up or to what ever level you like. From stock its really low.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    First post, although I relied heavily on you guys in my decision to get the Goat. 2005 Phantom Black on Black M6, had it for a week. Hands down the best car I've ever owned. The local dealer got a glut of 05's (six, which constitues a "glut" around here) delivered in a two week span in August. Gas is $3.00 a gallon, he's got six GTOs (two sat on the back lot in their styrofoam and protective shipping materials) and the 06's are right around the corner. I figure they're ripe for a deal. I guess the mark-up is low because they weren't real enthusiastic at first. My buddy works at the dealership in the body shop. Apparently they'd just had a meeting about how crappy their numbers were for August, and September was looking disappointing as well. (Damn! If only they'd had more Azteks!)
    *
    Anyway, he suggested timing my strike as near month end as possible, since that's when the sales pressure really ramps up. It was tough because the black M6 sitting on the back lot unprepped was the only one I was really jazzed about and I was afraid it would be gone. The end of September rolls around and doesn't GM put the Employee Pricing on the remaining 05 GTOs? I got the employee pricing and a $1,000 dealer cash, brought the price down to $29k.
    *
    The forum is great. I've already done the sub amp tweak (very cool) and ordered the replacement Goldwood subs as suggested by Robert. I'll be upgrading the door and rear panel speakers next week. I did have XM added using an XM Commander unit. The control module fits perfectly in the little storage unit below the head unit, but it wasn't possible to recess it enough to be able to close the door. The appearance of the control unit ties in nicely with the car's black-and-silver interior appointments. Ditto with the Escort Solo 2 cordless radar detector, which also eliminates the issue with the lack of a dash mounted 12v receptacle.
    *
    XM has its own unique compression characteristic that tends to sound "boxy" if there isn't a direct connection to the amp (RCA or a cassette shell adapter). With the Blaupunkt the only option was FM modulation. The XM Commander physically jacks into the antenna input rather than relying on over-the-air modulation, however there is still a marked loss of highs and separation. I'm hoping replacing the door speakers with high grade aftermarket gear will help. Note that the XM unit will step on your regular FM stations, so turn it off if you want regular on air radio (but why would ya?)
    *
    With regard to removing the head unit, the tool is handy (Circuit City sells them for $20, in my case the Pontiac dealer loaned us theirs). As far as requiring re-coding, we had the head unit out of the car entirely for several hours, and when re reconnected it, not only did it function fine, but it still retained its settings (except for the clock).
    *
    My question is, how do you disable that goofy "overspeed" indicator? I've run through the set up screens and I think I'm selecting "No" for overspeed, but the damn thing goes off just when I'm about to "get busy". Thanks again.
  • ausstarausstar Member Posts: 21
    Whats up mate. As far as I have experienced you can;t turn the bloddy thing off. If you go to the display that has the overspeed setting you can just turn it up as high as you want. I dont usually go more than 100 m/hr so that is what I have mine set to.
    On another note... Robert if you are reading this I was wondering if you have had any problems with the trunk release buttons. Sometimes mine works but most of the time I have to get out and hold the lid up and press the remote button at the same time. Fricken annoying cos I dont want to have to turn the car off every time I want to open the boot. I know the Aussie Monaro's dont have this problem I think this is just my car. The dealership does not have a clue how to fix it.!!
  • mick1mick1 Member Posts: 84
    The car must be in park to turn it off. I had the same problem it was driving me just as crazy playing with the buttons while driving. On the other hand maybe the car is trying to tell us GTO guys to slow down a little!
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    on the aussie rear lower bumper/cover. the part i got is unfinished black. in photos of the aussie version they seem to be similar/dark grey to what it has on the GM USA part. i'm not sure i'm going to like the black lower bumper. i think i want it painted body color. maybe i'll try it in the flat black for a while and get it painted later. dunno. what are your thoughts on the whole thang ya bottler !
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Somehow I got it to turn off. I had just refueled and press the "set" button to reset the fuel stuff, and now in the left screen it reads "Overspeed: OFF". No idea how I did it.

    On another matter, I'm thinking of replacing the stock front speakers with components. Has anybody had success finding an appropriate mounting location on the upper door for the tweeter? There's a little triangular plastic piece that trims out the inside of the side rear-view mirrors that looks promising. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    If you do go with components for the front, try to get the highest efficiency drivers you can find. The stock head unit doesn't have a whole lot of output, and you may find yourself lacking volume, or cranking it up to distortion levels. I replaced the stock speakers with some middling Blaupunkt coaxials, and after some tweaking of bass/treble and the sub amp, it sounds pretty good. I definitely have to turn the volume on the HU way higher than before though, (around 40-45 for fairly loud, whereas 35-40 did it for the stock speakers). As a huge generality, cheaper drivers tend to have higher efficiency and are easier to drive than high end stuff, (eg an Infinity Reference speaker tends to offer a dB or two higher efficiency than an equivalent sized Infinity Kappa - the more expensive line).

    'Coure, you could add an amp.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    OK - bad example on the Infinity speakers - I just checked Crutchfield, and it seems that the Kappas are now incredibly efficient, even more so than the Reference. The generality still held for other brands, eg Polk. Get some Kappas!
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    I see that GM sold only 994 GTOs during September even with Employee Pricing for Everyone in place. So in 9 months this year they have broken the 1K per month sales mark 4 times, including the leftover '04s they're were unloading during the first few months at $5K off msrp.

    Will there be an '08 with this kind of sales performance?
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    As a huge generality, cheaper drivers tend to have higher efficiency and are easier to drive than high end stuff,

    Thin paper vs the thicker, beefier, more durable, higher power handling speakers. In general, a speaker with a higher power handling will have a lower sensitivity.
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    I bet if you plugged in the T-S parameters for each, the references would still be more efficient. I've seen a lot of bogus efficiencies for speakers that just shouldn't be able to be that sensitive. Surprise, they're not.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Well, today at Circuit City the install guys peered into those little louvered spaces on the dash at the a-pillars and determined that there were factory tweeters in there. I'm still trying to figure out how its a 10 speaker system. Presuming there are tweeters in the dash, that's two. Two 6.5" in the doors, two more in the rear side panels, that's six. The two subs in the deck, I get eight total. What am I missing?

    I did some listening tests for the front components and liked the MTX units best. They seemed warmer and less brassy than the Polk or Infiniti. Not sure about their relative efficiency but I'm gambling I can get by without and amp. MTX are on sale for $179, plus if you buy a second set (like their 6.5 coaxial for the rear sides) they're half off (or $35). That's $215 for the full compliment of door and rear panel drivers.

    Anyway, I took Robert's suggestion and ordered two replacement subs from Parts Direct. The units he suggested were 8 ohm. I upgraded a little to their "heavy duty" 8 ohm drivers. However today the installers put an ohm meter to the factory subs and read 1 ohm of resistance on each. They're concerned anything greater will eventually cause the sub amp to fail. Anybody have any experience with these? I guess I'll wait till the replacement subs arrive and determine if an upgraded sub amp is in order.

    As an aside, I've been whipping up on the Mustang and Subaru guys on their respective comparo forums.

    It's interesting how the GTO, (which virtually every performance enthusiast who doesn't own one hates) so often serves as the "benchmark" car for everyone elses' comparison tests, in which it always narrowly loses. The thing is, the Mustang and Subaru guys seem to have a lot to say about the GTO. For some reason the car's very existence really gets under their skin. On the other hand, I'd guess most GTO guys couldn't care less about any other car, with the exception of what's in store for the 2007 GTO.

    Seriously. I think we give about as much thought to other cars as Evil Knievel gave to the specs of the semi trucks he jumped over.
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    What am I missing?

    Maybe the rear speakers are coaxial.

    They seemed warmer and less brassy than the Polk or Infiniti

    That's interesting, I chose Polk over other brands for my Camaro because of the silk dome tweeters. FX6.

    However today the installers put an ohm meter to the factory subs and read 1 ohm of resistance on each. They're concerned anything greater will eventually cause the sub amp to fail.

    Wow, 1-ohm. Sounds like the factory wanted to get by with less amp or something. No wonder why it sounds so bad when you crank it up, the amp must be putting out a pretty gross signal, on top of the flimsy speakers.
    I'm an EE and I don't see how going to a higher impedence is going to hurt the amp. It should draw far less current than the stock speaker, which will make the amp run cooler, but you'll need to dial in that much more gain to get the same output as before and maximum output will also be lower. Perhaps a sub upgrade is in order.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    There will be no 2007. Robert (the answer man) has covered that one more than once already.

    "The current model GTO will stop production no later than August of next year, maybe sooner (its Monaro counterpart ends production at the end of December). It can't be continued in North America because it doesn't meet 2007 MY crash standards."

    Sorry to interrupt the smiling, happy people feeling around here but if GM doesn't stop bleeding red ink the 2008 is done as well. No $$ and/or time to spare to develop it.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Smiling, happy people? You have us confused with the Prius discussion board. Ok, so it'll be a 2008 GTO. Or not. I have news for ya, GM has been more or less sucking wind for the past two decades. They still manage to put out new models every few years. I guess we better take really good care of the ones we have, just in case.
  • kevm14kevm14 Member Posts: 423
    What do you think I'm doing with my 93 and 95? They abandoned BOTH of my cars' platforms. All I'm missing is a Grand National and a Fiero.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    The Fiero's back. I think they call it the "Solstice" now.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    That info is about 6 months old. Here's what Robert had to say elsewhere about 2 weeks ago:

    "What I've heard from insiders is that the new Zeta-based GTO and Grand Prix/G8 are known as 2008-2009 models internally at GM. My guess is they might make the latter date, not the earlier one. Now that the big trucks are pretty well baked, they are throwing their resources behind Zeta to get these vehicles to market as quickly as possible. Or so goes the story...

    The big problem with Zeta seems to have been that it was engineered by Holden, for Holden, for assembly in their one assembly plant. Holden's assembly methods do not translate well to GM North America - it was as if you had handed GMNA a Chrysler 300 and told them to build it. The chassis/floorplan/vehicle integration was totally different than what GMNA does, and it would have been expen$ive to adapt GMNA production processes to work like Holden.

    It's also my understanding that the Aussie Zeta and the US Zeta are really different platforms. The Aussie Zeta is still based on the V-chassis, whereas the US Zeta will be based on a cheaper Sigma, with Holden suspension design. The plan is to unify these platforms into one common Zeta by the time revised Holdens come out (i.e. not the 2007-2008 models, but the generation after that). GM is slowly starting to get their platform act together - right now, even though the Saabs and Vectras are Epsilon-based vehicles, along with the Malibu and G6, you couldn't build a Saab at Fairfax or Lake Orion - that will change with the next-gen platforms... ditto Delta (Astra/Cobalt/Ion)"

    --Robert

    I'll believe it when I see one on a dealer's lot. GM seems to wobble back and forth on this every time top management has a meeting, and in the meantime time is a wasting.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I know those sketches are old but they certainly do mimic the look of the old ('67?) GTO's. I like it.

    But the front end (particularly the headlight treatment) reminds me of the upcoming Alfa Romeo 159:

    http://www.carpages.co.uk/alfa_romeo/alfa-romeo-159-part-1-13-06-05.asp
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Man, that's a crapload of info I didn't need to know. Does anybody have an inside line on Lutz's nutritional habits, so we can get a handle on what to expect in his future stools?

    No surprise Holden's manufacturing process doesn't translate well to GM's US plants...If the GTO is any indication, it's vastly superior. I wonder if Holden is strapped with the same sort of labor union and related expenses the American builders have. My guess is if it was built domestically to the same standard the GTO would be a $45,000 car.

    A friend of mine is a lemon lawyer in Detroit. 99% of his business is Big Three, with GM leading the way. It's obvious they know how to build competitive cars, but much to his relief, they don't.
  • monarogeoffmonarogeoff Member Posts: 2
    I cannot believe how cheap you guys can buy GTO,s for.The Latest(Last)Monaro to be built over here costs $A60,000. approx $45000 US.There seems to be some good bargains on ebay over there.Check out the last Monaro CV8Z On the holden.com.au site.There are lots of GTO scooped bonnets being retro fitted on our old Commodores over here as the GTO uses old front sheetmetal,1997 onwards.Great site.
    PS IF you like your GTO,you would love our utes(you call them pick ups).

    Cheers Geoff (in Aus)
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Agreed. It's a steal over here. I'd never heard of Holden before the GTO, but they clearly build world-class cars. What's the typical longevity of the Monaros? American stuff starts falling apart at 50k, maybe 75k if properly nursed. By 100k it's a crap shoot. How long has the current Monaro been in production and how much useful life can we expect with good maintenance? Thanks!
  • monarogeoffmonarogeoff Member Posts: 2
    The monaro has been in production since late 01 I think,but it was based on our passenger car (VT commodore which came out late 97)so when it came out it was near the end of the VT,VX model run,so today it looks a bit old next to the latest VZ commodore.I read that some of your guys dont like the look of the GTO,but it was really only designed as a Monaro,buy the way Holden didnt even want it called a Monaro,but thats another story.Our Monaro has always been based on our basic passenger 4 door car,since back to the late 60's.It would be like if they rebadged your next GTO which will be made in the States and bring it over here and call it a Monaro,it wouldnt sell well because it wont be based on our commodore.People will just buy GTS commodores from HSV instead,like prior to 01 when we didnt have the Monaro for a long while.
    You should easily get a 100k miles with out any major problems.A lot of Monaros over here are Sunday cars so they generally have low miles.I havent heard of any reliability dramas.We did have issues with Gen 3 5.7s needing to be rebuilt early,suffering piston slap,very noisy in start up and using oil,between approx 99-02.My 5.7 commodore wagon has clocked up 100k km and hasnt missed a beat.I have noticed that Monaros with colored leather seem to mark/wear easily near the driver entry point,thats about it.
    Cheers Geoff
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Thanks. We had the piston-slap problem here as well. My buddy is a lemon lawyer and had a bunch of those cases. Basically GM originally acknowledged the problem and proposed a fix, then realized the scope of the problem and the likely costs involved and revised their original acknowledgement, stating that the piston slap was not harmful and was a normal operating condition. Hopefully that's remedied in the 6.0 liter.

    I thought the black car with the red leather interior was striking, but I was concerned with the long term wear issues. Richly saturated colors (red in particular) require a lot of dye that's eventually going to fade or wear. I went with a black interior.
  • myedmunds1myedmunds1 Member Posts: 5
    Hi gb7,

    I believe that the airbags won't deploy unless you are moving at a speed of about 40m/h or faster, no matter how strong the impact is.

    By the way, could you please have us posted with your GTO repairing?

    Take care!
  • cracoviancracovian Member Posts: 337
    As you might recall, my power seat was stuck and I finally had some time to get the car to the dealer to have it looked at. A nice surprise, they gave me a loaner and let me choose 1 of 24 brand new trucks they just started to use as loaners. I went for a loaded 2006 Tahoe ($48K MSRP and 13 miles on the odo) and we all had fun in it, even my wife who hates these monsters ;-) In the end, I regretted I had to return to pick up my GTO which now has the seat's plastic panel hanging off hitting the door every time I close it... They supposedly ordered the whole rail (or whatever they call it) assembly and the part might get there today. My seat is now stuck in the farthest position from the steering wheel and along with the loose panel, I'm not sure I want to ride in that thing until they fix it (plus I miss my Tahoe "airliner" which, btw, got better mileage than the GTO - 17MPG vs. 16MPG).
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    gb7, that sux. i think airbags won't deploy unless car is going more than 15 mph (forward) . you probably have a whiplash injury, for real. also maybe ligament damage at the back of your neck which can lead to cervical disc failure/thinning and spinal bone spurs in the future. been there done that. you don't want to. i recommend full orthopedic doc route - x-rays & MRI of spine - this might save you significant discomfort (surgery) 10 or 15 years down the line. in my case i was rearended by another driver who was doing about 45 mph while i was stopped, 15 years ago. in 3 weeks i go for spinal surgery - no driving allowed for me for about a month after that! aaaaagh!
    so even if you accept a settlement from the rear-ender insurance company today, you don't really know if a possibly-related symptom will appear in 10 or 15 years. good luck with getting your car repaired - but don't forget about getting your body repaired/x-rayed/MRId/fully-analysed by an orthopedic MD.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    Took mine in to have the gas filler door replaced, (broke off in a carwash), passenger door window air vent cover replaced, (fell off), door to rear center console cubby replaced, (fell off), shift lever replaced, (vibrating/buzzing), and to look at the drivers seat rails, (lumpy travel fore and aft). Shifter replaced - doesn't buzz at all and seems not as rubbery a shift feel, but they tore the leather boot getting it installed - part ordered. Not all necessary parts to repair cubby door were ordered the first time - part ordered. Window air vent successfully repaired. Gas filler door installed successfully. Unfortunately, while the car is a black metalflake color, the filler cap door is plain glossy black! They are going to respray it. Sigh - another visit to the dealer to schedule.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    That sucks. I'm a casualty (injury) adjuster for a major carrier, and I did property damage (cars) before that. Also, I have an 05 GTO and I feel your pain. Here's the good news: There are no aftermarket crash parts for the GTO. The car has such limited production no A/M manufacturer will bother with it. The other route insurance companies use to save money is LKQ (salvage) although I doubt there's much of that out there either.

    The question is to what degree the unibody was affected. (The car doesn't have a "frame" in the conventional sense. Virtually all post 80's cars are unibody.) Given your description of the spare well buckling I'm guessing there is considerable rear unibody damage. Pull the trunk floor carpet up. There are two lateral "rails" that form the spine of the car, where you'd expect to see the frame. See if they're kinked. Buckled quarters are another sign of rail involvement. The rails can be replaced (they should never be repaired) just like any other part, but it's a big job and indicative of a heavy hit. The good news is, the insurance company will be using all OEM parts. They may take a little longer to arrive but it's worth the wait.

    Proper repair of a unibody car requires a shop with a laser measuring system. This is a drive-on rack that can measure the unibody geometry and determine to what degree the car is "tweaked". A good shop will actually rebuild the car on the rack if it's a really heavy hit, taking constant measurements along the way.

    If you can, post some photos. I'll give you some more specific guidance. As for the other insurance company, if their driver was drunk, and you were hurt, they will likely have some lee-way on the damage estimate... as long as you do not have an attorney. They have that leeway in order to maintain rapport with you so they can eventually resolve the injury claim. If you hire an attorney, they have no incentive to compromise fo you on the car. (And the attorney couldn't care less about the car. They may claim to in order to get you into the office, but they work on a contingency fee and there's no fee for them on the car repairs. It's all about the injury claim for them.)

    It is unethical for an adjuster to tie the property damage claim to the bodily injury claim, ie, if we pay you "X" on the car, can we get an injury release for "Y"? The fact is, it will take several months for your injury claim to resolve, while the car will be wrapped up more quickly (we hope). So, tell the adjuster you're willing to work with him on the injury claim (if the guy had BI coverage). Sign a "med auth" if he asks... it's not a release and it shows good faith. It'll also buy you time on the car while they hunt down all of your medical records. Unless and until you sign a release, you can always hire a lawyer and litigate the claim, limited only by your state's Statute Of Limitations (usually at least 3 years).

    If you can, let me know the following:

    What state the accident occured in.
    Who your carrier is.
    Do you carry UM (uninsured motorist) coverage? If so, what amount?
    Who the other carrier is.

    You can email me this info via my Edmunds profile.

    We'll get you through this and back on the road, and put some money in your pocket besides. You can spend it on some cool stuff for the GTO if it'll make you feel better.
  • cracoviancracovian Member Posts: 337
    My rear cubby door fell off for no reason too... We own a Pontiac after all :-(
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Bummer dude. I have almost 11K on my '04 and haven't had any problems like yours. Hope they all get fixed to your liking.
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    Pontiac sprung for a two page spread for the GTO, pushing the 0-60 time. The shot is of the nose of a black 05, identical to the current image on the Pontiac website. They shot it through a mild fish-eye lense which makes the car appear even more bulbous and rounded. Not sure the thinking there. Anyway, it'd make a cool garage poster.
  • tolenashtolenash Member Posts: 52
    I found this out by accident when I was leaving a gas station after running into get some quick cash. I had left the windows down and locked it by remote. When i finished inside, I got back to the car and unthinkingly just pulled on the door handle...and BEEP BEEP - the alarm goes off and I think "Wait a sec, I locked the car, how'd I open the door?" So here's what I found out when i get to my next stop last night:

    When I click the lock button on the remote, I can watch the drivers lock go down and then pop back up, enough so that the alarm arms but the door can still be opened by a simple pull of the handle. Using the key in the door to lock it will work... A friend, who's a Navy electronics engineer, says it is more than likely a bad solenoid for the throw mechanism. But I was curious if anyone else was experiencing this also.

    I will be taking it to the dealer for a warranty repair, as I don't consider the electric locks to be "wear & tear" item. I will update the board after that.

    (BTW IBM/M6/2004 13000miles)

    Thanks
    Tole
  • podpod Member Posts: 176
    I am charmed by the GTO after driving both the 2004 and 2005 versions. I am unlikely to use the car for more than usual driving and typically drive at 70 mph-80 mph on long trips. I love power and feel of both cars. I find the hood scoops unattractive. There is no shortage of slightly used 2004s available for $21-23K. A slightly used, or new, 2005 would likely cost $7-8K more. I would ask owners of both versions whether there is a significant difference in handling between the two cars. I realize the 2005 has a larger engine, the hood scoops and a separated dual exhaust. Are there other substantial changes which would make the 2005 worth the extra dollars?
  • kbobe67kbobe67 Member Posts: 23
    I have an 05, and drove the 04 as the test drive. I found no difference in performance or handling. Aside from the engine difference the changes are cosmetic... painted and logo'd calipers, dual exhaust and a new rear finish panel and as you mentioned, the scoops. When I first started shopping the car I intended to order an 06 and delete the scoops. However, with the car in black the scoops (and their black inserts) melt smoothly into the body rather than appearing tacked on and honestly now they're one of my favorite elements of the car.

    On a more serious note, the 5.7 litre engine caused huge problems for Holden and for GM here in the states, with a condition called "piston slap". This is characterized by a loud clattering sound at start up, and there is a related higher than normal oil burn. For that reason alone I'd be wary of a used 04 that hasn't been checked by a mechanic familiar with the condition. I have heard of no specific problems with the 5.7 in the 04 GTO, the problem was found in GM trucks and SUV's.

    Not to take anything away from the 04 owners... a GTO is still a GTO after all... but to me the 04's don't look fully baked when compared with the 05's. Taken as a total package the minor cosmetic enhancements and the full 400 hp add up to more than the sum of the parts. I'd spend the extra money on a close-out new 05 but I assure you, whatever GTO you buy, you'll love the car.
  • preformancenutpreformancenut Member Posts: 22
    Sorry to hear about your GTO getting hit. If the frame is fixable and you need some body parts I have the rear bumper,spoiler,side runners,front grille inserts and both mufflers with tailpipes. I know yours is an 04 and you would have to upgrade your exhaust but that LS1 would sound like it's supposed to with dual exhaust.
    All the parts I have were taken off the car before I took deliverly so they are mint condition. The only downside is my parts are Midnight Blue and would have to be paint matched.
    If you or anyone else on this forum is interested I will talk to you privately by e-mail or phone.
  • emd567emd567 Member Posts: 15
    I have final ok from the better half, and I am now in the hunt for an 06'. I have been keeping an eye on the local dealer, and all he has is the Toorid red(YUCK) 05 with an auto. I want the cyclone grey, 6 speed. Haven't decided on 17" or 18" wheels. Any suggestions on the wheels?
  • preformancenutpreformancenut Member Posts: 22
    The 17" wheels look better and have more detail in the casting but the 18"s have a softer and lower profile performance tire on them. I have the 17"s and those tires suck for hookup. I am going to put Mickey Thompson street radials on mine so I can launch and not get beat off the line:
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    '06 GTO's will arrive starting in December. This is later than your average '06 GM model, due to the long boat, train, and truck trip the vehicles need to make to get here from Australia. '06 production did not start until mid-to-late August IIRC.

    Regarding wheels, the 18's are nicer-looking than the 17's, but they come with Bridgestone Potenza RE040 summer-only tires that don't have nearly the lifetime of the KDWS that come with the 17's (think 10k miles). The chassis was engineered for 18" rims and tires, but GM dropped to 17's due to concerns about the survivability of the rims, and the harshness of the ride, on the 18's on the average American road... I am leaning towards buying new 18" (CV8-R) rims when my tires are shot (not for another year), but will test-drive similar rims and tires before buying.

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Just be careful driving in the rain on those MT drags. An infamous Catholic priest GTO owner clicky wiped out and went mud drifting trying to drive with them on the freeway in a rainstorm. Those with Nittos don't have as many issues with rain...

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Sorry to hear about your crash.

    I have seen a number of other GTO crash pictures. The car has always done extremely well in protecting the occupant by crumpling up. In very few cases, the airbags have gone off. According to the Aussies, this is by design - the airbag is engineered to only go off when it needs to, when it is more likely to help rather than hurt the front passengers. Of course, the Aussies get side airbags, which didn't meet U.S. spec so they were pulled from the GTO. I believe the Monaro and its Commodore-based brethren (Ute, Statesman, Caprice, et. al.) crash-test very well.

    If anything were to happen to my GTO I would probably take it to a body shop where they specialize in high-end (BMW, Mercedes, et. al.) work.

    I have heard of one case where the basic floor pan of the car was damaged in a rear impact, and it took three months - yes, months - to get one here. If you run into something like this, drop me an email (address in my profile) and I can put you in contact with some Pontiac folks that might help expedite the parts (probably won't do anything until you've waited a month, though)...

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Very good advice from elias. Get yourself checked out, repeatedly. I was in a rollover accident thirteen years ago (on vacation, on the Florida turnpike - not my fault, semi driver fell asleep and drove into my lane as I was passing him - swerved onto the (non-existent) shoulder (i.e. grass), lost control @ 70 mph, hit the semi, he rolled over the back half of my car and I flipped six times). I walked away from the accident, but my neck has never been the same (gets stiff frequently, have to roll it like a wrestler until it "cracks" into place), do physical therapy exercises daily) and now I have arthritis in it.

    Again, get yourself checked repeatedly.

    Also, I'm no expert, but, in addition to paying for your car's repair, I believe the DUI's insurance company is responsible for the "diminished value" - even if your car is fixed, you'd still get $2k or more less for it were you to trade-it in (since it's been damaged and it's worth that much less than an undamaged car).

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Hmmm. I had to get my gas cap replaced - would just sit there and spin and spin and spin. Called the dealer, they had one in stock, I went over on my lunch hour and had it replaced in 20 minutes. Fastest repair ever!

    I've heard of others having problems with the rear cubby door falling off, the rattling shifter knob, and the lumpy/rides like there are rocks in the rails of the front seats (there is a TSB out for this, for both '04's and at least the first few months of '05's - I haven't tried to get this done yet, as the parts were terribly back-ordered). Also, water leaks, either from the underside of the door, or from the air vent piece, are not uncommon... check your floor/mats if your car's been sitting in the rain.

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    There is a door lock TSB for the '04' (my first '04 had the "sticking door lock" assembly problem). I'm seeing lots of posts on another site of people having this problem... let me look for the TSB... here it is:

    Front Door Lock Will Not Unlock or Will Lock Intermittently (Install New Door Lock Assembly) #04-08-64-018 - (Aug 24, 2004)
    Front Door Lock Will Not Unlock or Will Lock Intermittently (Install New Door Lock Assembly)
    2004 Pontiac GTO

    Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 4L225024

    Condition
    Some customers may comment that the front door lock will not unlock or will lock intermittently.

    Cause
    This condition may be due to internal friction within the door lock mechanism at the rivet which attaches the door external handle lever to the lock base. The lever is returned to the rest position by the return (or torsion) spring. The door lock will not release unless the lever returns fully to the rest position.

    Correction
    Install a new door lock assembly. Refer to Lock Replacement-Door (SI Document ID #1340736).

    Parts Information
    Part Number
    Description

    92143359
    Front Side Door Lock (LH)

    92143360
    Front Side Door Lock (RH)

    Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

    Warranty Information
    For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

    Labor Operation

    B4260
    Lock, Front Door-Right - R&R or Replace
    Use Published Labor Operation Time

    B4261
    Lock, Front Door-Left - R&R or Replace
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Well, right now there's $2k additional off 2005 GTO's. Many dealers are selling at or near the Employee Price... meaning $27k + ttl. (Long Island, NY dealership).

    Besides the LS2 engine (with electronic throttle control - no throttle cable), hood scoops, and the revised rear fascia (both cars have dual exhaust, the '05's are just seperated versus one-side exit on the '04's), the '05's also get significantly better brakes and optional 18" wheels. The auto tranny is also beefed up/re-worked on the '05's as well (not sure what you're looking at). And, the '05's have the benefits of having virtually no TSB's/few known issues.

    Having said that, the '04's represent a tremendous bargain for $20-$21k (I wouldn't pay more than that for one). Look at the VIN - last 6 digits will vary between 176xxx and 317xxx - look for a higher VIN, which has more rolling changes/fewer TSB's). If you find an older one at a good price, I wouldn't avoid it, but would take the VIN in to a friendly Pontiac dealer and have them run it through SI to get the service history of the vehicle (will tell you which TSB's and repairs have been done).

    If you end up with an '05 in a color common to the '04's, you can probably find someone to swap hoods if you want the unscooped version. I've been seeing people pay $300-$400 to do the swap, FYI.

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I believe GM made changes to the 5.7L engines (both truck and LS1) after MY2002 to reduce the likelihood of piston slap... only know of one person claiming to have it on their '04 (but he has heads and a cam, so all bets are off in my book).

    Had the Cosmos Purple color stayed on for '05, I would have waited and bought one, but it didn't, so I didn't wait. Don't regret my purchase at all, even though I went through hell with GTO #1 before getting it exchanged...

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I'm still trying to figure out how its a 10 speaker system. Presuming there are tweeters in the dash, that's two. Two 6.5" in the doors, two more in the rear side panels, that's six. The two subs in the deck, I get eight total. What am I missing?

    As kevm14 guessed, the rears are coaxial. The tweeters are between the A-pillar and the dash. I left them alone - it wasn't highs that were the problem, it was lows (and the distortion present due to the cheap @#$@#$ paper-cone speakers).

    --Robert
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