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Pontiac GTO
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Comments
The closest "apple" IMO will be the '05 Mustang (available in Fall '04). There are some obvious resemblances. Both are RWD V8-powered reiterations of 1960's classics with more or less 2+2 seating.
There are also some obvious differences-
Only one is available in convertible form, only one will offer IRS in standard trim, only one offers a powerhouse V8 in base form.
Prices (est)
$24k V8 Mustang coupe> $42k Cobra 'vert ('06)
vs.
$34k GTO w 6 speed ($650 extra)
I find both intriguing for much the same reasons
and I don't think we'll know which has more bang for the buck until the Cobra SVT emerges in '06.
Meanwhile I really don't care if a Civic goes for half what a Goat does.
Can you say "irrelevant"?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I will guarantee it and take bets.
Cam in LS1 is not radical. It actually has more torque over a wider band.
LS6 intake doesn't really provide any more power.
Many 2001 and 2002 Fbods had it installed from the factory.
I want to reiterate my comment aboout the Subaru and how it also applies to the Neon, and any other car for that matter.
We can take a Neon SRT and a GTO and run them from a 5 mph roll and the GTo will beat it.
I have raced many of these 4 cylinders in my IROC.
They are supposed to be faster but I beat them everytime.
They simply don't have the low end torque to compete in the stoplight grand prix.
Magazine numbers are great but they often don't translate to the real world.
It is far superior to anything available in the 70's.
The IRS alone probably costs $2000 retail.
The interior is more expensive, etc.
SLP sells a cam/head package for the LS1 that bumps it to 470 HP.
Which is about 600 SAE gross hp.
The styling may not be to everyone's taste but it
is the most passenger oriented musclecar I have ever seen.
Besides, it won't be long before we will be buying these things near invoice + $2-3000 rebate like all GM cars. LOL.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
oh, and by the way, in regards to the age thing, everyone, I'll be 30 by the time this car hits the streets. Just old enough to remember some great muscle cars roaming the streets and just young enough to still want a coupe and at a good point in my career and life that I could afford it. So i think the target group is pretty accurate.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
What specific brand and model of tire is used? Would be nice if they splurged for Michelin Pilot Sports!
riez - you and I are on the same page
b4z - I hope you are right on pricing. I really want to love this car and may still break down and buy one yet.
The GTO has 350 HP but weighs 3725 lbs. With an average size driver you're looking at almost 2 tons on those punny tires.
You're right that the Mazda isn't necessarily heavy... until you look at power to weight ratios. If they could have shaved it down to 3k lbs, they could have come in right between nissan and honda:
mazda6s 14.74 lbs/hp
Accord v6 14.1 lbs/hp
Altima v6 13.05 lbs/hp
GTO 10.64 lbs/hp
Again, I'm not saying the Mazda is necessarily bad, but comparing it to this car is ridiculous. You may as well start comparing a Miata to a convertible Vette.
Tires? I've never had a car that came with decent tires from the factory. That's not hard to fix.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I can picture Pontiac dealers with piles of brand new GTO tires rotting out back. And the UPS driver bringing new tires to them from Tire Rack every day.
Glad to see things more lively around here. I had started visiting that "other website" you guys refer to. On the other hand I'm not getting anything done here at work.
Oh well, happy Friday!
Ok, I don't even know, what brand tires are coming on this? I must have missed that post.
As far as size, the Tiburon comes with 205/55/16s. Someone here listed the GTO as having 225/50/17s. So, as a matter of fact, the Goat's tires ARE wider than the Tib. The Tib's are actually the same exact ones on my Volvo T5 and I do find those pretty decent although I'd like a little better wet traction.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
This is still alot of speculation since we haven't gotten to drive the GTO. Hopefully we can make a real-world determination soon. I think the closer comparison is going to be the RX8 vs. this car. Still very different, but the pricing and purpose are closer.
On a side note, personally, I'm hoping the mazda3 will be even more fun than the 6.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anyone know what brand and model of tire is standard with GTO?
http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2001/images/graph.jpg
All this power does make you have to question the tires though.
http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2002/2002-LS6vs2001LS6.pdf
I like how GM got the latest LS6 to produce more power from about 3000 rpm without sacrificing any part of the power curve.
as far as the subaru comment goes, the turbo forrester is supposed to do 0-60 in around 5.5 seconds. that's pretty fast. doesn't make me want to drive one, though.
1) Confirm how much they will cost (including gas guzzler tax if I have to pay it).
2)Tell us what brand and size tires we will get.
3) Announce how many have been ordered so far.
I wonder if 1 and 3 are related. Hmmmmmmm.
Real world?
Real or not, I would not want one either.
I never understood the mentality of the "pocket rocket" crowd interrupting the discussions of various boards with their magazine "0 to" numbers.
hate to keep the svx thread going but(15 minutes, no seconds, of fame?) from this site; '97 stats; 0-60 8 secs, 60-0 127 ft, roadholding .87g's.
So, I do think it's widespread but if anything GM probably doesn't have a clue how to cheat. For crying out loud, they're still stuck in this mentality that they have to down-rate many of their cars so as not to "compete" with other lines. Pretty stupid.
In short, I don't expect the GTO to be a "ringer" or whatever. If it performs too good, people at GM will be upset that it's too close to Corvette times.
It'll have significantly more torque throughout the curve than the standard Corvette LS1, but will also be 3700+ lbs which is a good 400+ lbs more than a Corvette. I guess that 5.5 number sounds about right.
The aftermarket stuff available should be exciting too.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
'96 Impala SS 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
has anybody ever seen a stock Impala SS go this
quick?
'93 Z28 Camaro 0-60 in 5.0 seconds. 275 hp.
9 years later 345 hp Camaro SS still couldn't reach that time.
Can you say balanced and blueprinted?
All times are from Car and Driver.
and got a 0-60 time of 4.9 sec.
To be fair the mods were mentioned in the article but they were minimized and "zero-60 under 5 sec" became a part of GTO lore.
The test purported to compare a Goat with an actual 3 liter Ferrari GTO, LOL!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
That GTO had a 421 in it!!
Also they used hand held stopwatches back then.
Please let me know when you find a dealership that will actually sell the new Corvette for $35K. In theory, they start at $44K, but the least expensive one on any lot within 50 miles of me is $47K. If you can find me a dealer giving at 25% discount, I'm there.
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Actually, with so much on the line with performance, I think it's criminal to send anything to a magazine that's a bit "special" and then quote the magazines performance results in an advertisement.
I think this goes on a lot.
Just goes to show that O-60 or 1/4 mile times are poor reasons to buy a car. If it feels fast it IS fast enough.
Back off Valhs! You're crowding the start line again, let her idle down for a bit, eh.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
It would be great if we can focus this discussion on the GTO, rather than making it a "my car can beat up your car" discussion. Those tend to have a short lifespan, with lots of deleted posts along the way.
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Seriously, good luck and be careful to all of you with winter deliveries.
Contrary to popular belief the GTO was never the fastest musclecar. It might have been in '64 or '65, but everyone else had caught on to their formula and had their own competitive offering.
Not sure if you can directly compare a Plymouth to a Pontiac. Pontiacs were noticeably more luxurious and more expensive too.
You are correct that the Roadrunner was a big success it's first couple of years.
But that car was stripped down to the bare bones.
And had a price too match. I'm talking bench seat, rubber floormats, etc.
I think the smaller ponycars had a bigger impact on GTO sales.
Camaro, Mustang, Cuda, Nova etc.
Lighter weight was a bigger factor in low E.T,s than big HP.
The smaller cars were cheaper too and were sportier than the midsize offerings.
Then OPEC administered the coup de Grace in 1973.
by 1974 it was all over for the Goat, the RRunner, the real Mustang, the Malibu SS, the 442, the 'Cuda....
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
A lot of things killed the muscle cars. Emissions, insurance, styling. They all played a part in the demise of American muscle.
73/74 Trans Am SD-455 comes to mind real quick...