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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    you mean you don't see the striking similarities here? look at the a-pillars, look at the shapes and sizes of the side windows and windshield, look at the shape of the fenders, look at the shape of the hood, etc., etc.

    image
    image

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • crispiegeecrispiegee Member Posts: 90
    Some thoughts to consider:

    Pontiac is in business to sell cars and make money for shareholders, not help us visit memory lane. The stylists could have never pleased the traditionalists' tastes: Some would want '64 styling cues, while others would want '69 traits. And while the old GTOs are dandy, I defy anyone to adapt their styling to a modern design.

    A retro GTO would have generated lots of initial interest, but few buyers over the long run. The Mustang is entirely different in this regard, as it had a shape that adapts well to modern interpretation.

    Speaking of modern, the Monaro, absent the GTO's rear wing, has the understated elegance of a BMW 3-series. This is what is going to attract new buyers like me: CLEAN, MODERN DESIGN and serious performance, not garish gee gaws.

    Pontiac's whole Disco image came about because of tasteless wings, scoops and spoilers. I don't be seen in a car that makes me look like some kind of infantile show-off. I'd rather have the American version of a European GT: Attractive, fast, capable and comfortable. No glitz.

    I will probably order in the Spring, although I wish it came in Holden's charcoal grey. :(
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The problem with "retro" is that you can't go anywhere with it. What cha' gonna do, make the car look older every year?
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    What a minute... we are criticizing Pontiac for making the new GTO look like a Pontiac?!? Would it make any sense if it didn't?

    I can see, like I said before, Pontiac showcasing a new design direction with this new halo model, but not throwing out what they have going now all together.

    Sure, I would like a little more visual excitement from this performance icon. But I would still expect it to look like it fits into the Pontiac range. Again, I am just happy they didn't take the Monaro, slap some body ridges, an outlandish wing and fender flares on it and call it a Pontiac (cause that would have fit too).
  • crispiegeecrispiegee Member Posts: 90
    With regard to RCTENNIS assertion that the GTO is already out-dated because it is "partially built on the Commadore/Catera platform," I would respond with the following:

    Just because a platform is NEW doesn't make it GOOD, and just because it came from 1998 doesn't make it "outdated." Simple-minded consumers believe that new is always better, but consider that Mercedes used the same SL platform from '87 to '03... it was a well designed car!

    Assuming you know what goes into building a chassis, please enlighten us to what you would update on the GTO's chassis. My guess is that you read in a car magazine that it traces its design to a 1998 design, so that makes it outdated.

    Auto journalists are some of the most brain washed people out there. Twenty years ago they said FWD was the height of modern engineering and V8s and RWD were throwbacks. Now they say RWD is the way to go. They have also touted the greatness of turbos, MacPherson struts and unit body construction -- Further evidence that auto design is as trendy as any fashion show.

    From what I've seen of the GTO specs, as well as reviews of its ride and handling, it makes no apologies for it chassis modernity. And with regard to styling, the Europeans change very infrequently, yet their cars always look great. That the Holden has been around for two years does not disuade me from buying it.

    But if the term "re-engineered" tickles your fancy, I hear the new Kia cars got a face lift, and they're supposed to be just greaaaat....
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    i said the platform was outdated because some people didn't like the styling of the car, which is why i had to point out the fact that the GTO is built on a car produced in 1998 in Australia...BUT, i didnt say that the handling was bad, I am all for the GTO
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    What a minute... we are criticizing Pontiac for making the new GTO look like a Pontiac?!?

    yup, sure am. I don't find any new pontiac attractive. That's not to say the GTO is UGLY, it just ain't pretty. When I look at it I have about the same reaction as looking at an Accord coupe: "eh"
    its just kinda... there.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • crispiegeecrispiegee Member Posts: 90
    Hey RCTennis,

    Sorry about being so vitriolic. All the reactionaries have me fired up today -- They wish it was still 1967 and we still wrote on Smith-Corona typewriters. I wish cars were still body-on-frame, but I guess that ship has sailed!

    On the discussion of styling, there are a few things I don't care for (the Pontiac grille, for one -- at least the could have made it inset for a bit of texture), but overall, the goodness of the car makes it worthwhile for me. Just wish they would have offered charcoal grey, DARK blue or DARK red. Decisions, decisions.

    P.S. I'm going to the Detroit Autoshow to see if they unveil the Mustang. I will make my decision then whether to go Mustang or Goat. Right now, I'm leaning heavily GTO, based on interior quality, room and the 5.7 liter stump-puller.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    offer a dark metallic (Navy) blue. It's very much the fashion color
    du jour as well as the best color the Monaro is offered in (of the Aussie pix I've seen). Can you tell it's long been a favorite car color of mine.

    Charcoal grey was last big in the 80s and seems to be making a comeback as well, another good-looking color that would be a natural on the new Goat IMO, which seems to wear dark colors better than the bright red, yellow or silver it's often photographed in. Your mileage may differ.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • yzfr1nyzfr1n Member Posts: 8
    It was a smart move on GM's part to bring in only 18000 cars this year, while dealers will say (at least in the North East) they have deposits on all but a few of their allotted GTO's for the year the fact of the matter is that the car appeals to a specific crowd (myself included). No one should fall for the dealer gimmicks and pay a penny more than 32K for this car.

    It's conservative shape should age well (comparable to BMW 330), it's over all performance is good, build quality will be the best we have seen from Pontiac and most of GM.

    But consider this:

    1)One look at the trunk and people are going to walk away:
    While enthusiasts will put up with it or those who will keep it only as a second car won't care, for all those who actually want to "use" the GTO forget it. Figure you can pack almost as much in an S2000.

    2)Gas Guzzler Tax:
    Just the fact that you have to pay the tax tells you the car uses large quantities of premium only.

    3)Few options:
    The car has so few options, while what options it has are standard let's not forget it's price.

    4)Brand name not so hot in that price range:
    Also have to figure that most people who can afford to put a car in that price range in their garage would be ashamed of showing their keys (a red arrow with a star in it).

    5)GTO "cult" is not that strong:
    While the Mustang has a large following, the new GTO does not and will not. The GTO has been gone for too long to provide satisfaction to it's older fans. The new GTO is not loyal to what the GTO used to be (thank God), this year's car is modern and is what it should be but no one is going to be buying it just because it has the letters GTO on it.

    Taking everything into consideration the new GTO is a good, maybe even great car but it's still a Pontiac. To all those who will go out and pay sticker price (Testosterone pumped Grads who know how to drive hard and fast, and gentlemen who want the latest sports car), heed my warning, no, just watch what will happen to the price of this car in just one year. Maybe GM already took this into consideration by planning on selling this car for only three years on our shores.

    All that being said I will be one of the first to test drive the new GTO, but like most people thinking about a Pontiac this will be a big investment and will have to think long and hard if I really want this car which will depreciate drastically over the next three years.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    the GTO will succeed in selling the 18k allotted but I doubt that big markups will last that long.
    There's plenty of competition for people in the market for a sporty 2-door with 4 seats.

    A longer option list, bigger trunk and keener styling will come eventually if the car meets sales goals w/o heavy discounting.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    dark blue, that would be great.
    Also would like to see what the car looks like with a set of 18" wheels with 5 spokes and 275 section tires.
    And a pair of '68-70 style twin hood scoops on the small side. Not like what they put on the most recent WS6 Pontiac.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    but I've heard nothing definite on production while GM has already introduced a successor to the Vauxhall/Opel Speedster in Europe based on the same architecture.

    Will we ever get one?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • jq3jq3 Member Posts: 52
    Thanks, qbrozen, for posting pictures of the Grand Prix and the '04 GTO. You'd have to be half blind or totally blind not to see the distinct similarities. Pontiac should have and could have done better, end of story!

    Like I've said before the engine is fine, but how anyone could be pleased with the body styling is beyond me. I'll guarantee you all that it will start out with brisk sales for about 2 months and fall flat from there. Pontiac will end production in 1.5 - 3 years due to slow sales. The car SIMPLY is not "eye-candy"! Muscle cars MUST excite the visual senses this day and age, competition is fierce!

    Everyone that has debated this the past week and half scroll back to post #692. Just look at it for 5 minutes and then can you honestly post that the '04 GTO really has a future? Will people in 20 years be eager to collect one? How do you think it will age? What about the GTO has character and originality?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    People buy small asian sourced cars and they are not particulary good looking.
    People will buy the GTO for build quality and the engine.
    The GTO will be bulit in America in '07 anyway.
    GTo doesn't look like the current GP. It looks closer to the last generation GP.
    And of course their is a resemblence. It comes from the same family!!

    A very easy fix for the front end would be to inset the grille 1" from the surrounding bumper cover.
  • white6white6 Member Posts: 588
    od0I Jjmfop- Ou00e9dndl 9sn0jnclcj....
    Sorry, that's how us blind people type. ;)
  • orwoodyorwoody Member Posts: 269
    You know, the new GTO will blend well, which isn't all bad when it can go fast.... you never know when you might have to blend into traffic when a trooper comes by.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Come on now!!!! This car has a freakin 5.7 liter stompin' V8 and it cost just 30k. That alone would be enough for most people to buy one. Truth be told a car like this is better suited to our long straight roads than the RX-8 or any other import performance car right now.

    I think all those F-bod fans who have been crying in their beers will take to the GTO with gusto. All the people who dislike having to rev an engine to get power would choose this car over most of the competition.

    Marketing is going to be what makes or breaks this car. Sure us car fanatics know about it, but the average joe hasn't a clue that the fastest GTO ever is about to be released. If GM was smart they would give this car extra exposure and call their "Pontiac" NASCAR race car a GTO. Would make more sense than calling it by the name of a FWD sedan. They need to spend a ton of money on television spots and print ads. There should be product link ups, special give aways, sponsered events etc... Pontiac needs this car to be known and appreciated.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    omg!!! please, everyone, stop posting that the GTO looks bad..ok, well thats your opinion and im fine with that..but honestly, I think that people WILL BUY the GTO because of its price tag, nice interior, awesome V8, and soon-to-come abundance of aftermarket accessories. just see how you can take a plain ole Joe car like the GTO and turn it into a racing monster with hood scoops nicer wheels, etc. so it should sell!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Let's say that the GTO doesn't sell.

    That would means we get a $4000 rebate and $3500 off from the dealer.

    So we get the car for $26,000. Seems like a bargain to me.

    About what the $31,500 Impala SS is going for with it's $3500 rebate and pricing close to invoice.
  • blacktalonblacktalon Member Posts: 203
    I agree that the GTO looks a bit too much like the Grand Prix, and even more like the Grand Am coupe:

    image

    image

    I think GM should hand the GTO styling over to the team that designed the Cadillac Cien and XLR. I bet they could take the "inspiration" from the classic GTO -- with that aggressive squared-off grille -- and craft an interpretation that looks thoroughly modern and attractive.

    image

    image
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    qbrozen...I do agree that the GTO isn't the "head turner" it could have been.

    Make no mistake, if it drives like all the media says it does (and nothing breaks in it, as C&D has reported), it is a car that I'd like.

    crispie...even the pictures don't show the similarities of the previous gen of the GP and the GTO. While at the Detroit auto show last year, I did mistake the GTO for the GP. And, in person, the similarities are even more pronounced than they are in the pictures.

    Speaking of the Detroit Auto Show, Ford had the '05 Mustang there on display last year. I would imagine they will do the same this year.

    Looks like a nice piece. The drive will be the ultimate judge.

    Shifty...I never thought about it, but you're right. When you go retro with styling, where do you go from there? IT kind of makes you wonder where Chrysler will go with the next gen PT Cruiser or VW with the next gen New Beetle.....
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Retro seems to be a dead end by definition, more of a gimmick than a vision. Some departments of GM (Cadillac) have gotten that message but some have not.

    Perhaps Pontiac must take more risks like Cadillac has just done. The XLR is certainly not reminding people of old Cadillacs, and that is probably a good idea.
  • cap232pilotcap232pilot Member Posts: 1
    GM shoulda brought in the first 18,000 as standard Monaros under the Pontiac badge and then presto, change o ,rebaged it as a GTO with some performance mods(450 sounds a bit much) to help with the terrible sales. I ,too, am impressed with the interior and powertrain, but would seriously question my sanity as soon as I turned off the key, slid out of the seat, and gazed at that bland sheet metal.
       From the first time I laid eyes on my new 1971 Nova SS to the properly restored ones on Ebay today, I dig its total presentation. Many of us older guys who owned Goats, SS Chevelles,and the like 30 years ago know what I mean... and it ain't because of misty eyed nostalgia, either.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    I guess this would be the real comparison. Now which mags said the muscle car war was over?

    Length:
    GTO — 189.8
    SVT Cobra — 183.5

    Width:
    GTO — 72.5
    SVT Cobra — 73.1

    Weight:
    GTO — 3725
    SVT Cobra — 3665

    Horsepower:
    GTO — 350
    SVT Cobra — 390

    Torque:
    GTO — 365 ft lbs
    SVT Cobra — 390 ft lbs

    0-60:
    GTO — 5.3
    SVT Cobra — 4.5

    Price:
    GTO — 31k
    SVT Cobra — 34k

    I guess you buy the GTO if you want interior space, handling and under-the-radar styling. You buy the Cobra if you want attention grabbing styling, an edge on acceleration and don't care so much about steering feel.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    The GTO and Mustang are in 2 seperate categories and really not that comparable.

    The Mustang is a pony car and the GTO is a musclcar.

    Mustangs, Camaro/Firebird/ 'cudas and Challengers are in the pony car category.

    Musclecars are the midsizers.
    Chevelle, GTO, 442, GSX, roadrunner,etc.

    The midsizers have a weight disadvantage so direct comparisons are hardly fair.

    Compare the performance of the GTO to BMW 6, G35,
    and Mercedes CLK.

    I am not saying some people won't crosshop GTO and Cobra, just that they are not quite the same demographic.
  • white6white6 Member Posts: 588
    the same level of quality and room. GTO has usable back seats and an upscale interior. It also doesn't use a cobbled-up, after the fact designed rear suspension. Nor does it have to resort to add-on supercharging to make great torque and horsepower. If you're more interested in boy-racer profiling and drag racing, buy a Cobra; if you want a high-quality, understated, mid-size car with great power, handling and ride, buy a GTO.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Well there is less than 100 lbs of weight difference between these cars so the pony-car vs midsize muscle car thing is moot.

    These cars are not in two seperate categories at all. Same peformance, both domestic marks, both RWD etc...

    GTO sits on a shortened Catera platform. The next Cobra will sit on a shortened Lincoln LS platform. Plus, the current Mustang is built on a mid size sedan platform from the 70's. Only the 60's mustangs might fit this crtiteria of Pony car.

    I think one thing the GTO does well is make the current Mustang look very crude.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    GTO started its life as a Monaro in a far away country called Australia. I don't think that the Australians were shooting for a Grand Prix look when they were designing the Monaro.

    When they rebadged it as a GTO (with some design changes), I doubt that they really changed the hood lines and the pillars on purpose to make them look like a Grand Prix.

    I think it is just a coincidence that Monaro/GTO looks a little bit like a Grand Prix. I don't see any conspiracy here.

    And if it does look like a Grand Prix a little bit - great!!! Grand Prix is one of the better looking Pontiacs.
  • blacktalonblacktalon Member Posts: 203
    I don't think the similarity between the GTO and the Grand Am/Prix is a conspiracy -- I think it's a blunder.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    if you like the looks, that's great. I certainly won't fault you for that.

    but ... coincidence? hardly. and its not a conspiracy. Its just called resource sharing or some other buzz term like that.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • casoncasecasoncase Member Posts: 48
    The salesman said he thought the price of a manual shift GTO would be $37M to $38M, but "I'm not certain of what the price will be yet". Is it possible that GM has not established and forwarded a sticker price for a car that's weeks from marketing?

    I'm replacing a 2000 A6 Turbo, which is nice -- but the I want mean! 350 is mean.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    so did the Holden designers borrow the styling cues from Pontiac Grand Prix back in 1997-ish when they were working on the Monaro?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    DOn't know for sure, but all the reports I've heard put the GTO in the $33K range. Sounds like your dealer's preparing for a bit of "price gouging".
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Was announced a month ago.

    Check edmunds.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    I'd have to think so if the Monaro was designed after the GP (i'm really not up on used Holdens, so I don't know what they looked like during certain years).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • white6white6 Member Posts: 588
    Sounds like the typical clueless salesman... these people know less about the product they're selling than most customers... amazing. MSRP was announced at $32,495 (including freight); only option is 6-speed manual at $695. Auto tranny version is actually more expensive, though, due to $1,000 gas guzzler tax added to price. Manual tranny car gets MUCH better highway EPA numbers, allowing it to dodge this ridiculous tax.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Just read that Car & Driver article on the GTO. Pretty fair assessment it sounds like. They really didn't think much of the styling, however...I thought the comment about it looking like a "telephone company fleet car" was a bit cruel.

    Sounds like this Goat needs a tire and brake upgrade, too.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    I got the impression from reading it that a tire upgrade would be difficult because wheel well rubbing would be a problem. What are your thoughts? Hopefully some kind of tire upgrade is doable.

    With some cars, intake and exhaust modifications are a nice help and will surely be available for this one, but with this car I think the biggest performance increase may be just getting the monster low end torque that already exists to the pavement.

    Also, what are anybody's thoughts of this car's ability to be a year round driver in an area that gets some snow? Is traction control the savior of RWD? Are there great winter tire alternatives that you'd have to switch to (keep an extra set of wheels - ouch)????

    I have not seen one yet, but some photos seem to show that the car does have some great curves with the front and back fenders flared out quite a bit. You can also see it in the way the reflections really dip at the fenders. A lot of cars can look slab sided and boring in a photo, but I am hopeful that when I actually see one that it's got more curves than most pictures indicate. I'll admit the style seems a bit weak, but not that bad. I'm definitely not a fan of the hi-po style of something like the firebird, and equally not to thrilled with some of the radical import designs with front and tail lights contorted into all sorts of weird shapes - wandering up over the trunk lid, fenders or hood area with body styles that are at best bordering on a boy-racer look. Still I can see where this car's look leaves something to be desired but it's not that bad.

    One suggestion would be to not go through the trouble to re-work the front end to look like the rest of the line-up. The Monaro front was better, and they could have done an infinite number of things other than hit us over the head with the age-old Pontiac front end look.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    (4)winter tires will be a must if you live somewhere you must drive in snow, even if it's just the length of a driveway. I run snows on my awd in winter because I might have to STOP in a hurry.

    Extra wheels are cheep if you get steel ones, at least yer good ones are out of the snow and slush.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • tripowergtotripowergto Member Posts: 83
    The Car and Driver article used one of the pilot cars that only had 225/50/17 tires. GM quickly realized it needed more rubber so the actual production GTO comes with 245/45ZR17 BF Goodrich KDWS tires which are supposedly a very good tire.

    They'll still be shredded by all that HP but traction and braking is greatly improved. The new GTO is alot of car for $33K, can't wait to testdrive one!!
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "So what you are saying is that pontiac should have taken a FWD Monte Carlo(or GP for that matter) with a 3.8L V6 and called it a GTO?"

    They ALMOST did! GM asked a Pontiac enthusiast magazine what they thought of a Grand Am based GTO. They suggested a Grand Prix version, but with AWD. When they asked GTO fans at car shows they learned that it had to be RWD/V8. The Holden is the only RWD platform for now, and people have begged GM to bring it here, well voila!

    BTW: Look at a 72 GTO or 73 Grand Am (was supposed to be the GTO) and see how the 2004 looks like the next generation.

    And:
    "Ford is hardly doing it right. The Thunderbird has been canceled due to poor sales. "

    No, no, no. The T-Bird was planned from the get go to be a limited run. Look up stories from 1999, ti was meant to be only a 5 year run at the most. But the media spun it into a 'sad sack' tale of woe.
  • casoncasecasoncase Member Posts: 48
    Or is it too early for that?
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    you mean all that TORQUE - not HP. Low end torque shreds tires, not HP.

    HP (peak) is good for continued power through the top end and it generally impresses the automotive press and most of the buying public, but can be misleading as to how much power is delivered to the wheels throughout the entire acceleration.

    Sorry - just a peeve point of mine that gets me rambling.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Member Posts: 274
    "it generally impresses the automotive press and most of the buying public"

    You got that right.
  • tripowergtotripowergto Member Posts: 83
    ya got me there garnes... wasn't thinking straight cuz folks are reading that the new GTO's don't have enough tire and that's just not the case. I'm quite aware it's all about torque at low end to spin the hides. The original GTO's Pontiac engines(notice I didn't say "motor" LOL) were all torque and low redlines but high mileage and reliable. Can't wait for this car!!
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Member Posts: 1,277
    Torque at a given rpm, in the context of an internal combustion engine, implies a certain ability to do work. I bet that diesel could spin wheel pretty good if it's belching out 555-lb-ft when you drop the clutch on it. It's mainly that diesels don't make a lot of power because they have redlines in the 3000 rpm range. So 555 lb-ft is probably about 200 horsepower max in the range it is made.

    Also, torque is not force, it is torque, or force on a moment-arm. A huge amount of torque will always do work unless it isn't enough to overcome the resistant force. If the resistant force is high enough, then you can make that same exact argument about horsepower. You can have have a ton of horsepower and still not do any work.

    All else being equal, I'd rather have a car that makes strong torque and good horsepower (as strong torque across a range implies good horsepower) than one that makes strong horsepower and poor torque (as poor torque across a range only implies the possibility of strong power high in the rev range). If you have a solid torque curve, you will always make good power. If you don't have a solid torque curve, all you can hope for is to make power at very high rpms... ;)
  • obiwanobiwan Member Posts: 57
    My 2001 Dodge pickup with the 245 HP/505 lb-ft high output Cummins turbo diesel has no problems laying long strips of rubber on the pavement even with 3.55 gears and big 305/70R16 tires. It can even bark all 4 tires when I shift it into 4WD. But that 3300 RPM redline really keeps me from winning many stoplight races. However, I bought it to tow my Jeep to the trails and my future GTO to the track so I don't care how slow or fast it really is 'cause it launches the same pretty much no matter what's on the trailer.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    a rotational force. But it is still raw force.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I suddenly feel the need to
    get in that Cummins Turbo diesel and
    power brake it to see if the brake torque is greater. LOL.
    Anyway I bet I can get it to shred
    some tires.
This discussion has been closed.