Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Pontiac GTO
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Pontiac is in business to sell cars and make money for shareholders, not help us visit memory lane. The stylists could have never pleased the traditionalists' tastes: Some would want '64 styling cues, while others would want '69 traits. And while the old GTOs are dandy, I defy anyone to adapt their styling to a modern design.
A retro GTO would have generated lots of initial interest, but few buyers over the long run. The Mustang is entirely different in this regard, as it had a shape that adapts well to modern interpretation.
Speaking of modern, the Monaro, absent the GTO's rear wing, has the understated elegance of a BMW 3-series. This is what is going to attract new buyers like me: CLEAN, MODERN DESIGN and serious performance, not garish gee gaws.
Pontiac's whole Disco image came about because of tasteless wings, scoops and spoilers. I don't be seen in a car that makes me look like some kind of infantile show-off. I'd rather have the American version of a European GT: Attractive, fast, capable and comfortable. No glitz.
I will probably order in the Spring, although I wish it came in Holden's charcoal grey.
I can see, like I said before, Pontiac showcasing a new design direction with this new halo model, but not throwing out what they have going now all together.
Sure, I would like a little more visual excitement from this performance icon. But I would still expect it to look like it fits into the Pontiac range. Again, I am just happy they didn't take the Monaro, slap some body ridges, an outlandish wing and fender flares on it and call it a Pontiac (cause that would have fit too).
Just because a platform is NEW doesn't make it GOOD, and just because it came from 1998 doesn't make it "outdated." Simple-minded consumers believe that new is always better, but consider that Mercedes used the same SL platform from '87 to '03... it was a well designed car!
Assuming you know what goes into building a chassis, please enlighten us to what you would update on the GTO's chassis. My guess is that you read in a car magazine that it traces its design to a 1998 design, so that makes it outdated.
Auto journalists are some of the most brain washed people out there. Twenty years ago they said FWD was the height of modern engineering and V8s and RWD were throwbacks. Now they say RWD is the way to go. They have also touted the greatness of turbos, MacPherson struts and unit body construction -- Further evidence that auto design is as trendy as any fashion show.
From what I've seen of the GTO specs, as well as reviews of its ride and handling, it makes no apologies for it chassis modernity. And with regard to styling, the Europeans change very infrequently, yet their cars always look great. That the Holden has been around for two years does not disuade me from buying it.
But if the term "re-engineered" tickles your fancy, I hear the new Kia cars got a face lift, and they're supposed to be just greaaaat....
yup, sure am. I don't find any new pontiac attractive. That's not to say the GTO is UGLY, it just ain't pretty. When I look at it I have about the same reaction as looking at an Accord coupe: "eh"
its just kinda... there.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Sorry about being so vitriolic. All the reactionaries have me fired up today -- They wish it was still 1967 and we still wrote on Smith-Corona typewriters. I wish cars were still body-on-frame, but I guess that ship has sailed!
On the discussion of styling, there are a few things I don't care for (the Pontiac grille, for one -- at least the could have made it inset for a bit of texture), but overall, the goodness of the car makes it worthwhile for me. Just wish they would have offered charcoal grey, DARK blue or DARK red. Decisions, decisions.
P.S. I'm going to the Detroit Autoshow to see if they unveil the Mustang. I will make my decision then whether to go Mustang or Goat. Right now, I'm leaning heavily GTO, based on interior quality, room and the 5.7 liter stump-puller.
du jour as well as the best color the Monaro is offered in (of the Aussie pix I've seen). Can you tell it's long been a favorite car color of mine.
Charcoal grey was last big in the 80s and seems to be making a comeback as well, another good-looking color that would be a natural on the new Goat IMO, which seems to wear dark colors better than the bright red, yellow or silver it's often photographed in. Your mileage may differ.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
It's conservative shape should age well (comparable to BMW 330), it's over all performance is good, build quality will be the best we have seen from Pontiac and most of GM.
But consider this:
1)One look at the trunk and people are going to walk away:
While enthusiasts will put up with it or those who will keep it only as a second car won't care, for all those who actually want to "use" the GTO forget it. Figure you can pack almost as much in an S2000.
2)Gas Guzzler Tax:
Just the fact that you have to pay the tax tells you the car uses large quantities of premium only.
3)Few options:
The car has so few options, while what options it has are standard let's not forget it's price.
4)Brand name not so hot in that price range:
Also have to figure that most people who can afford to put a car in that price range in their garage would be ashamed of showing their keys (a red arrow with a star in it).
5)GTO "cult" is not that strong:
While the Mustang has a large following, the new GTO does not and will not. The GTO has been gone for too long to provide satisfaction to it's older fans. The new GTO is not loyal to what the GTO used to be (thank God), this year's car is modern and is what it should be but no one is going to be buying it just because it has the letters GTO on it.
Taking everything into consideration the new GTO is a good, maybe even great car but it's still a Pontiac. To all those who will go out and pay sticker price (Testosterone pumped Grads who know how to drive hard and fast, and gentlemen who want the latest sports car), heed my warning, no, just watch what will happen to the price of this car in just one year. Maybe GM already took this into consideration by planning on selling this car for only three years on our shores.
All that being said I will be one of the first to test drive the new GTO, but like most people thinking about a Pontiac this will be a big investment and will have to think long and hard if I really want this car which will depreciate drastically over the next three years.
There's plenty of competition for people in the market for a sporty 2-door with 4 seats.
A longer option list, bigger trunk and keener styling will come eventually if the car meets sales goals w/o heavy discounting.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Also would like to see what the car looks like with a set of 18" wheels with 5 spokes and 275 section tires.
And a pair of '68-70 style twin hood scoops on the small side. Not like what they put on the most recent WS6 Pontiac.
Will we ever get one?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Like I've said before the engine is fine, but how anyone could be pleased with the body styling is beyond me. I'll guarantee you all that it will start out with brisk sales for about 2 months and fall flat from there. Pontiac will end production in 1.5 - 3 years due to slow sales. The car SIMPLY is not "eye-candy"! Muscle cars MUST excite the visual senses this day and age, competition is fierce!
Everyone that has debated this the past week and half scroll back to post #692. Just look at it for 5 minutes and then can you honestly post that the '04 GTO really has a future? Will people in 20 years be eager to collect one? How do you think it will age? What about the GTO has character and originality?
People will buy the GTO for build quality and the engine.
The GTO will be bulit in America in '07 anyway.
GTo doesn't look like the current GP. It looks closer to the last generation GP.
And of course their is a resemblence. It comes from the same family!!
A very easy fix for the front end would be to inset the grille 1" from the surrounding bumper cover.
Sorry, that's how us blind people type.
I think all those F-bod fans who have been crying in their beers will take to the GTO with gusto. All the people who dislike having to rev an engine to get power would choose this car over most of the competition.
Marketing is going to be what makes or breaks this car. Sure us car fanatics know about it, but the average joe hasn't a clue that the fastest GTO ever is about to be released. If GM was smart they would give this car extra exposure and call their "Pontiac" NASCAR race car a GTO. Would make more sense than calling it by the name of a FWD sedan. They need to spend a ton of money on television spots and print ads. There should be product link ups, special give aways, sponsered events etc... Pontiac needs this car to be known and appreciated.
That would means we get a $4000 rebate and $3500 off from the dealer.
So we get the car for $26,000. Seems like a bargain to me.
About what the $31,500 Impala SS is going for with it's $3500 rebate and pricing close to invoice.
I think GM should hand the GTO styling over to the team that designed the Cadillac Cien and XLR. I bet they could take the "inspiration" from the classic GTO -- with that aggressive squared-off grille -- and craft an interpretation that looks thoroughly modern and attractive.
Make no mistake, if it drives like all the media says it does (and nothing breaks in it, as C&D has reported), it is a car that I'd like.
crispie...even the pictures don't show the similarities of the previous gen of the GP and the GTO. While at the Detroit auto show last year, I did mistake the GTO for the GP. And, in person, the similarities are even more pronounced than they are in the pictures.
Speaking of the Detroit Auto Show, Ford had the '05 Mustang there on display last year. I would imagine they will do the same this year.
Looks like a nice piece. The drive will be the ultimate judge.
Shifty...I never thought about it, but you're right. When you go retro with styling, where do you go from there? IT kind of makes you wonder where Chrysler will go with the next gen PT Cruiser or VW with the next gen New Beetle.....
Perhaps Pontiac must take more risks like Cadillac has just done. The XLR is certainly not reminding people of old Cadillacs, and that is probably a good idea.
From the first time I laid eyes on my new 1971 Nova SS to the properly restored ones on Ebay today, I dig its total presentation. Many of us older guys who owned Goats, SS Chevelles,and the like 30 years ago know what I mean... and it ain't because of misty eyed nostalgia, either.
Length:
GTO — 189.8
SVT Cobra — 183.5
Width:
GTO — 72.5
SVT Cobra — 73.1
Weight:
GTO — 3725
SVT Cobra — 3665
Horsepower:
GTO — 350
SVT Cobra — 390
Torque:
GTO — 365 ft lbs
SVT Cobra — 390 ft lbs
0-60:
GTO — 5.3
SVT Cobra — 4.5
Price:
GTO — 31k
SVT Cobra — 34k
I guess you buy the GTO if you want interior space, handling and under-the-radar styling. You buy the Cobra if you want attention grabbing styling, an edge on acceleration and don't care so much about steering feel.
The Mustang is a pony car and the GTO is a musclcar.
Mustangs, Camaro/Firebird/ 'cudas and Challengers are in the pony car category.
Musclecars are the midsizers.
Chevelle, GTO, 442, GSX, roadrunner,etc.
The midsizers have a weight disadvantage so direct comparisons are hardly fair.
Compare the performance of the GTO to BMW 6, G35,
and Mercedes CLK.
I am not saying some people won't crosshop GTO and Cobra, just that they are not quite the same demographic.
These cars are not in two seperate categories at all. Same peformance, both domestic marks, both RWD etc...
GTO sits on a shortened Catera platform. The next Cobra will sit on a shortened Lincoln LS platform. Plus, the current Mustang is built on a mid size sedan platform from the 70's. Only the 60's mustangs might fit this crtiteria of Pony car.
I think one thing the GTO does well is make the current Mustang look very crude.
When they rebadged it as a GTO (with some design changes), I doubt that they really changed the hood lines and the pillars on purpose to make them look like a Grand Prix.
I think it is just a coincidence that Monaro/GTO looks a little bit like a Grand Prix. I don't see any conspiracy here.
And if it does look like a Grand Prix a little bit - great!!! Grand Prix is one of the better looking Pontiacs.
but ... coincidence? hardly. and its not a conspiracy. Its just called resource sharing or some other buzz term like that.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm replacing a 2000 A6 Turbo, which is nice -- but the I want mean! 350 is mean.
Check edmunds.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Sounds like this Goat needs a tire and brake upgrade, too.
With some cars, intake and exhaust modifications are a nice help and will surely be available for this one, but with this car I think the biggest performance increase may be just getting the monster low end torque that already exists to the pavement.
Also, what are anybody's thoughts of this car's ability to be a year round driver in an area that gets some snow? Is traction control the savior of RWD? Are there great winter tire alternatives that you'd have to switch to (keep an extra set of wheels - ouch)????
I have not seen one yet, but some photos seem to show that the car does have some great curves with the front and back fenders flared out quite a bit. You can also see it in the way the reflections really dip at the fenders. A lot of cars can look slab sided and boring in a photo, but I am hopeful that when I actually see one that it's got more curves than most pictures indicate. I'll admit the style seems a bit weak, but not that bad. I'm definitely not a fan of the hi-po style of something like the firebird, and equally not to thrilled with some of the radical import designs with front and tail lights contorted into all sorts of weird shapes - wandering up over the trunk lid, fenders or hood area with body styles that are at best bordering on a boy-racer look. Still I can see where this car's look leaves something to be desired but it's not that bad.
One suggestion would be to not go through the trouble to re-work the front end to look like the rest of the line-up. The Monaro front was better, and they could have done an infinite number of things other than hit us over the head with the age-old Pontiac front end look.
Extra wheels are cheep if you get steel ones, at least yer good ones are out of the snow and slush.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
They'll still be shredded by all that HP but traction and braking is greatly improved. The new GTO is alot of car for $33K, can't wait to testdrive one!!
They ALMOST did! GM asked a Pontiac enthusiast magazine what they thought of a Grand Am based GTO. They suggested a Grand Prix version, but with AWD. When they asked GTO fans at car shows they learned that it had to be RWD/V8. The Holden is the only RWD platform for now, and people have begged GM to bring it here, well voila!
BTW: Look at a 72 GTO or 73 Grand Am (was supposed to be the GTO) and see how the 2004 looks like the next generation.
And:
"Ford is hardly doing it right. The Thunderbird has been canceled due to poor sales. "
No, no, no. The T-Bird was planned from the get go to be a limited run. Look up stories from 1999, ti was meant to be only a 5 year run at the most. But the media spun it into a 'sad sack' tale of woe.
HP (peak) is good for continued power through the top end and it generally impresses the automotive press and most of the buying public, but can be misleading as to how much power is delivered to the wheels throughout the entire acceleration.
Sorry - just a peeve point of mine that gets me rambling.
You got that right.
Also, torque is not force, it is torque, or force on a moment-arm. A huge amount of torque will always do work unless it isn't enough to overcome the resistant force. If the resistant force is high enough, then you can make that same exact argument about horsepower. You can have have a ton of horsepower and still not do any work.
All else being equal, I'd rather have a car that makes strong torque and good horsepower (as strong torque across a range implies good horsepower) than one that makes strong horsepower and poor torque (as poor torque across a range only implies the possibility of strong power high in the rev range). If you have a solid torque curve, you will always make good power. If you don't have a solid torque curve, all you can hope for is to make power at very high rpms...
get in that Cummins Turbo diesel and
power brake it to see if the brake torque is greater. LOL.
Anyway I bet I can get it to shred
some tires.