Pontiac GTO

b4z · December 2003

ultimategto has pics of the GTOs in a holding yard.
They are supposedly on their way to dealers across America!!!

brad2329 · December 2003

I dont care what anyone has to say about the GTO. I want one and its the first time I've been able to say that about a GM car in.....FOREVER.

revdrluv · December 2003

revdrluv · December 2003

(of course I would take a Z06 if someone gave it to me ;D)

casoncase · December 2003

Right across the border of CT a NY dealer (Meadowlands Pontiac) today sold me an "on the ship" GTO for MSRP (33190). He told me that, unlike in CT, they don't (can't?) tack on stuff to jack up the price like the CT dealer was prepared to do (the one that said MSRP was unknown at present). To this CT dealer I offered 35000, total price. He said he'd get back to me next week and would "give me a good price" (translation: well over 35000).

So, how should I tell the CT dealer I'll probably have my GTO (for 35173, total) before he even sees one? Be nice?

Pretty literate group of writers, we GTO nuts.

crispiegee · December 2003

Casoncase,

Why be nice? Tell the other dealer, "Guess what? The other Pontiac dealer has a customer for life because he gave me a MUCH better deal than you."

Don't tell him the price you paid. Leave him wondering.

By the way folks, don't fall for the salesman's line that "every dealer is marking up the sticker price." All the Pontiac dealers in my city are selling them AT the sticker price, and one dealer said to me, "I know everyone is quoting sticker, but talk to me before you make a deal -- we'll, ahh, work something out." (He wasn't going to announce a price break, but that was his implication.)

See? If you do your homework (consult Edmunds!) and demand respect from the dealer, you won't fall prey. Look at the suckers who could have avoided paying $4,000 over list for a PT Cruiser.

b4z · December 2003

There is word that a GTO is supposed to arrive at a dealership in San Diego this afternoon and the buyer is ready to take delivery.
Maybe the first GTO sold.

casoncase · December 2003

My GTO is in Calif. now. I'm paying 33,190, which it seems is MSRP. Any thoughts on extended warranty? Is there such a thing as a GM extended warranty?

Kudos to you posters. I'd have paid much more for this car without you guys (any women GTO freaks out there? I doubt it). But ultimately the kudos go to edmunds.com.

hammen2 · December 2003

Yes, GM has their Major Guard warranty (might have renamed it to the GM Protection Plan). It's pretty expensive. There are sites that will sell it at a discount - GMWarrantyCentral is (was? it won't load for me) one, Capper Auto Center is another. If you're really interested, I'd get quotes from them and then see what your local dealer will do for you, if anything...

--Robert

b4z · December 2003

Hmmmm.

Today info was posted about 2005 GTO pilot cars going down the Holden assembly line.

I am speculating that we might very well see shortened 2004 production and earlier 2005 production.

The 2005 will have hood scoops and dual exhaust and possibly an LS2 engine.

I think it is a very real possibility that Pontiac wants to end 2004 production early and
get on with the improvements.

ruski · December 2003

will it mean discounts on the 2004 model?

garnes · December 2003

You mean the exhaust tips on either side - right? It already has a true dual exhaust, so the change would just be cosmetic.

I hope changes include the sunroof, and maybe some safety related upgrades. Navigation system? Couldn't care less. Otherwise, it sounds pretty well equipped as is right now. Oh yeah - heated seats too for those that get winter.

garnes · December 2003

What I also think would be cool is if GM just flat out worked directly with Corsa for an exhaust option that you could get right from the dealer/factory.

I know they spent a lot of time tuning the sound of the GTO exhaust, but I doubt it's straight through like a Corsa system. Their patented sound cancellation system gives you straight pipe performance and it sounds great. It's not loud and is extremely quiet on the highway. So you could get a different sounding and higher performing car with this option.

I think such a teaming arrangement would be cool and give buyers more interesting options.

ruski · December 2003

I use heated seats quite a bit during the winter here in South Florida.

b4z · December 2003

2 future GTO owners are reporting that their cars arrived at dealerships in California yesterday, and they will be picking up the cars today!

montanafan · December 2003

I heard that the first cars left the receiving yard on Wedensday and that by next Friday 800 will be at or on their way to dealerships. So that seams to back you up b4z.

white6 · December 2003

Holden Monaro's have seat/mirror memory settings. It appears that these features were removed for GTO's. Wonder what else they pulled out? Seems it would be more expensive to develop a different component than to just build em all the same. Visited my local Pontiac dealer on Wednesday. No brochures or printed materials available for public. They expect their first models to show up in late December. And, of course, hinted at significantly marking up the sticker... what a shock. Wonder how they're gonna handle folks checking out a GTO interior in the showroom and then trying to explain why Grand Prix interiors look so cheap and inferior in comparison.

b4z · December 2003

Just saw a pic of a GTO geting prepped at a dealership in Cal. Buyer says GM won't release it until Monday.

b4z · December 2003

Looks like a guy in California picked up his GTO last night.

b4z · December 2003

Leave it to Popular Mechanics to give us the best
GTO pic.

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/2003/12/ne- w_cars_1203/

revdrluv · December 2003

"The GTO is expected to run for three model years and will be limited to 18,000 copies a year. Pontiac brass says that's all the capacity they can get out of the Holden plant. Nice try. The real reason is that's all the GTOs the United Auto Workers will allow."

Kirstie_H · December 2003

A reporter is hoping to interview someone who is planning to buy a new vehicle in the next three months. If you are interested, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by January 1, 2003 with your name and daytime contact information.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

imonty · December 2003

Holden's plant in Elizabeth South Australia has just gone to it's third shift ie 24 hr running so there is plenty of scope to up the build rate of GTOs. I think the US Auto Workers are a little short sighted on this as I would have thought that as some parts (engine and gearbox) are US sourced anyway they are getting extra work anyway. Still I spent 8 years in Aircraft Industry Unions here in Australia and some things we did were not great either. If you want to have a look at what is possible with the GTO platform then look at www.hsv.com.au and see the coupe4 which is a 4wd coupe based on the Monaro. HSV are a builder of performance versions of Holdens but are not owned by Holden. There is also talk of using a Holden Commodore Utlility (pick ups but we call them "utes") as a base for a Chevy El Camino. There have been some brutal utes displayed at our motor shows. Hope everyone likes the GTO better in the metal than in photos. We did.

revdrluv · December 2003

How do kW translate into hp?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

1 kw. = 1.3410 hp.

b4z · December 2003

Jim Wangers suppossedly picked up his GTO yesterday at a dealership in Michigan.

blh7068 · December 2003

He is coming to speak at our Pontiac club end of year dinner in January. Im sure he will have lots of good info. WOO HOO!!!

bxd20 · December 2003

Besides the hood scoops, extra power, redone rear exhaust...

- 18" wheels (or 17" that looks like the show car, flatter and therefore taller in appearance)
- Remote start, even Chevy's now have it
- Heated seats
- Make HID lights optional
- Sunroof

Brian

rjs200240 · December 2003

Way to make it sound like a common thing. What other cars besides the new Malibu can you name that come with factory-equipped remote start? And how would you remote start a car with a manual tranny? Park it in neutral?

HID's would be cool, and I think any car could benefit by having heated seats as an option. Extra power? Do you mean just because more power is always cool, or do you really think that 30 more hp than a 911 isn't enough?

andys120 · December 2003

when a Goat that didn't have more power than a 911
would have been considered pokey.

b4z · December 2003

But the GT0 weighs 600 more lbs than the 911.

andys120 · December 2003

casoncase · December 2003

The CT dealer I first saw two weeks ago calls yesterday and tells me he'll deal a GTO for 35M to 37M, and it'll be here in 6-8 weeks. I bought mine from a NY dealer, 25 minute from CT on for 31,190, and it'll be here end of Dec.

Re extended warrany: my dealer didn't offer a GM warranty until I asked about it. He had a non-GM company warrant package lined up, which I'm not going for because: Who's less likely to go bankrupt, GM or brand X? GM will cost more, but some of that will be recovered in re-sale.

Questions: What weight oil does she use? Use synthetic oil, and when? Break-in instructions are generic, so any thoughts on break-in techniques?

Why waste a set of rear tires finding out that a challenger -- can't? What I need is a lamenated list of 0-60's for comparable units like the GTO. That way I'd avoid going against some of these powerful looking monsters, like the four-banger Mazda with an exhaust about the size of a drain pipe that blows you away (with noise).

b4z · December 2003

I never raced somebody I thought was faster.
I did beat a 300ZX Turbo up to 50 mph 1 time.
Jumped him off the line and it took him that long to catch up.
215 hp can beat 300hp under the right conditions.

jerzey12345 · December 2003

if u wanted to see what the full pontential of the gto is got to this website http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vy2/default.htm
we aussies have been working on this car for a few years now and we also have a all wheel drive model on the way wich u guys in the states wont have for quite a while our models seem 2 have alot more features than the us model and the hsv's have a fair bit more power to up to 300kw at the moment and 19" wheels satnav and dual zone climate contol for our fussy ladies

garnes · December 2003

yeah - keyboard racing. As for any correlation tot he real world???????

BTW - the street start "5 to 60" for the GTO is not quicker than the 0 to 60 times. It is slower. Although for some automatics is can be almost the same as the "0 to 60 " number.

Maybe I missed it, where did those numbers come from anyway?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Hmmm...I just keyboard raced the GTO with my favorite used dream car...a 1993 Mazda RX-7 TT.

garnes · December 2003

A keyboard contest has a Cadillac DTS getting to 60 in 6.1 and an STS needing 7.0. Hmmmm.

garnes · December 2003

Thanks for the site link. It's fun, but there are some goofy numbers in there and the "street start" is going to be a slower. So I wonder just what is the basis. An "actual DTS" getting to 60 in 6.1? No way. Same for some other cars there.

"factory freaks or specially prepared vehicles............I'd trust a third party before I'd trust a manufacturer's claim or magazine article."

Could you be relating these two points? If so, you are pretty sharp. And then you see all these tv commercials quoting the magazine performance test numbers (magazine cited very small at the bottom of the screen).

Do you have a G-tech or something that you are using to measure acceleration?

jacklarue2002 · December 2003

I went into the Pontiac dealer in my town in the Boston area last Friday. I told the salesman who was sitting at his desk doing nothing that I was interested in the GTO. He looks at me, shakes his head, and says "no." I asked "Do you have anything else to tell me?" He said that they were only making 400 (every car magazine says 18,000 a year), that they were very hard to get and didn't try to engage in any discussion about ordering one when I asked what I would need to do to get one. Unbelievable! By the way, I'm 46, I make a good living and dress nicely! I was so pissed off that I haven't called or gone to another dealer. Probably end up buying a Japanese car. Just another piece of the overwhelming puzzle of issues that GM has to fix to simply sell cars!

94supra · December 2003

I am struggling with some similar issues. It seems that many Pontiac sales reps have not been trained in how to build relationships rather than just shove a car off of the lot. The guys that can push an 18 year old's buttons to buy his "hot deal of the week" may not be the correct guys to sell a GTO to those of us correctly targeted by GM for the GTO and/or CTS.

For the first time in 20 years, GM has 2 cars that I am actually considering, the CTS and the GTO. In the next 12 months, they may have a decent volume of these interesting performance oriented sedans and coupes available, but they must treat those of us used to buying premium Japaneese and European brands a bit different from the customers that have been buying Sunfires and DeVilles. I really, really want to see GM succeed, but they still have lots of work to do. The good news is, they seem to be finding ways to make more interesting cars available in this market (build CTS or import GTO). The bad news is, they still need to work on many of their dealers.

montanafan · December 2003

My guess is the 400 number is for the Boston area dealers. Was talking with a dealer on Tuesday and they are only getting one this year. The salesman's reaction is no different then you would get in any other industry were they can't get you what you want.

94supra · December 2003

This sounds like the behavior of a future unemployed salesperson in any industry. He might be flipping burgers in 90 days. If his attitude is reflective of the dealership, it may cease to exist (I think GM is still trying to reduce their dealer network). Order takers (and GM dealers) are a dime a dozen. Professional sales people (even car sales professionals) work to cultivate long-term relationships with their clients.

If GM wants to regain momentum with the people who have been buying BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus... They need to avoid the behavior described in the earlier post. The professional sales people at the better dealerships are constantly selling their brand, their dealership and themselves, even if they don't have the model you are looking for today. GM needs to make sure their salespeople realize they are representing themselves, the dealership, Pontiac and GM.

Affluent, educated people tend to expect a different buying experience than the shift workers at the local plant. (There will always be individual exceptions to demographically-based behavior assumptions.) This is obviously reflected in very different advertising campaigns targeting different types of buyers. This situation presents a bit of an enigma to a Pontiac dealer who has not invested the effort to understand how to build profitable long-term relationships with buyers/clients from different demographic pools. If GM is going to have a successful high-end business in the future, they need to capture the upwardly mobile buyers in their 20s and not lose them to the premium imports in their 30s and 40s. The GTO and CTS are good potential weapons in this war, but they still have work to do with the dealers.

mlm4 · December 2003

The disinterested reaction of the sales rep is typical (I have found). They live off commissions and want to sell you a car out of their own stock. If they can't do that then second choice is to try and locate one nearby. Third choice is to order one but only if they know it can be ordered. The turnover rate is extremely high and the commissions are very low. Their sales manager calls all the shots anyway. The only product training they get are videos to watch in the conference room, and maybe some hands-on training in the lot (I have watched this from the service waiting area and it is amusing to say the least). Maybe a little more for a new product but usually not until after it has already hit the showroom floor. There is no incentive for these guys to build any sort of relationships and if they can't sell you a car today (or soon) then they don't waste their time talking to you -- a better prospect might walk in the door at any minute!

A few years ago I ordered a Tahoe from a sales rep who was still green and enthusiastic. He thought he would do better selling cars than as a manager at Target, a job he had just quit. By the time I took delivery of the Tahoe 12 weeks had elapsed and almost the last four of those were trying to track down the vehicle which turned out to be in "no man's land" in the Jacksonville transit yard. When this guy finally got his piddely commission for all this effort, he told me he would never order a vehicle for a customer again. A few weeks later he was gone.

I suspect with the GTO it is not so much an "order" as it is an allocation, since Pontiac is determining how to configure the GTOs it builds (colors and that one transmission option) because of the lead time issues (this is what the Japanese do with Japan-built vehicles imported to the U.S.). GM still says "late December" but the year is almost out and no sign of any GTOs yet?

andys120 · December 2003

some retailers will be better off than others. Allocations are typically determined by sales volume, CSI scores and perhaps by performance in special incentive programs. Possibly this dealer did not rate well in any of those and so only gets one unit or possibly has presold all but one of his allocation.

In any case there's no excuse for the salesman's indifference to this prospect, it was unprofessional.

94supra · December 2003

I don't doubt that you are describing the dysfunctional sales environment in many dealerships. Many of these dealerships are also almost as unstable as their salespeople. That is why I place the burden of fixing the problem with GM and the dealers. If GM wants to again compete head-to-head with the more premium brands (and win), they must address these issues in all of their brands that will attract these targeted buyers.

With the GTO, GM is clearly targeting buyers they want to turn into long-term clients. By itself, the GTO will not justify the effort to modify it and import it. It pays off big time if they can create a happy client that comes back to GM for more performance/luxury oriented cars in the future. They have been slowly loosing this market for 30 years and they really need to make major moves ASAP.

GM is spending billions in their attempt to reposition themselves in the market. Better-positioned products (like the GTO and CTS) are about 1/3 of the story. The remainder of the fix must come by reshaping their distribution and services network. This must include changes in both training and compensation packages to encourage behavior that results in establishing long-term clients for GM. Part of the solution will probably include more Internet-enabled ways of avoiding the dealer's salespeople altogether. The changes will not be easy, but the described behavior only results in reinforcing the negative image GM has gained within markets it wants to re-enter.

b4z · December 2003

We have a dealership where I live that started out in a rural area but that has become a suburban area for Chas. SC.
In 2001 they sold 1200 trucks and only 70 cars.
I asked my salesman how Chevrolet allocated them vehicles.
He said that Chevrolet worked with them because of their situation.
I imagine that there are several Pontiac dealers that have special deals with allocations.
Plus they can always trade amongst each other.

orwoody · December 2003

I suspect that Pontiac is having a hard time in the beginning with trying to allocate the first shipments of vehicles. And as said in several postings, the dealership makes a big difference. I've dealt with one of the largest and best rated GM dealers in the Western region. They are having trouble getting their GTOs promised several weeks ago. They are up front about it but don't discourage anyone from asking or ordering. They will tell you they can't promise a firm delivery date right now.
I'm thinking things will settle down in a couple of months; several sales folk I know don't think the GTO will be as popular as Pontiac management thinks. Personally a GTO w/ 6 speed is quite appealing, but I'll wait and see.

garnes · December 2003

Those dealership experiences are sad and I've had them too. I highly suggest you call the manager/owner - whoever and share your underwhelming experience with them. They should be unemployed - period.

I had a very negative experience at a Cadillac dealer in the recent past. I just had some questions and this older salesmen treated me like crap. I'd probably pass for early 30's, and was dressed in shorts. Maybe that was it. However, everyone should be treated seriously. I called the dealership and had a nice conversation with the owner and shared my experience and suspicions about their particular salesman.

Some of these guys on the floor are death to GM. And yes, very few of them know crap about the car either. Pathetic. The salesmen need to be bumped up several notches IMHO.

fjm1 · December 2003

Crappy salespeople is not exclusive to GM. Last time I went car shopping the utmost worst two salespeople AND manager worked for Lexus. Total jackals.

The BEST example of trying to work something out of nothing came about a year ago at a Honda dealership. I wanted to try out an Accord V6 coupe STICK. The salesguy blinked a few times and said "They are as scarce as hen's teeth but I can try". Some time passed and I lost interest. This past summer I found my way back into the dealership and bought a sedan instead.

The moral is don't be a jerk. I'll never step foot onto that Lexus dealership again but I'll shop first at that Honda dealership.

Reality slap: I've NEVER shopped a GM dealership for ANYTHING. The GTO looks enticing though......

Pontiac GTO

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles