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Chevrolet C6 Corvette
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Comments
I have an idea, call a couple local dealerships and let them know what I want and what Im willing to pay and that I will be ready for purchase...
Even then, ill need luck since one dealership has already not called me back...
Another dealership (Infiniti) only contacted me once after I visited so I knew they were skeptical.. that time I did show up on my own tho..
Ill let you guys know what happens.
I did significant research – for months, before requesting a Corvette test drive.
Many dealers, particularly those with low allocations, will not allow test drives. Partly, this appears to be because many buyers do not want any Test Drive Miles on the Corvette they purchase.
Almost Catch 22.
Yet, when I contacted the largest local dealer ( near Atlanta ) I was very pleasantly surprised when (before even meeting me in person ) the Corvette sales person responded via email:
“We do allow test drives on coupes & convertibles. I dont understand
dealers that dont. I wouldnt buy a $50 pair of shoes without trying them
on, much less a $50,000 car”
The test drives ( I wrote & posted my impressions here ) convinced me that the C6 would be an acceptable Daily Driver – as well as a fun car to drive! ( A given. )
Good luck!
- Ray
Also a Leading Edge Baby Boomer (57)
I took your advice and contacted the biggest corvette seller around. They are one of the nation's largest. I told them I only need to compare seats, experience the transmissions, and hear the sound systems (and search for the antennae).
They responded in a positive way. Great idea! The dealership is a 20-25 minute xway drive: Not bad.
It will be like a daily driver and I will be missing out on many things the Infiniti has standard...
Well, at the risk of preaching here, I have an issue with the strategy of arranging to test drive a C6 ( or any other car ) at a dealer where you have no interest or expectation of attempting to purchase. I expect ( in the next 30 days or so ) to give my ‘local dealer’ a legitimate shot at earning my business. If they do not meet my price and trade-in requirements, I will use the GMID certificate I have already obtained to purchase a C6 at a dealership ( way ) out of state. I have already told the salesperson that I’d prefer to purchase locally ( for several reasons ) but that if they will not meet my price, I will buy elsewhere, and specified a salesperson & dealership that would accept GMID. ( About 10 miles from where my Mom lives. )
There is a non-trivial cost involved in stocking a selection of $50K +/- units available for sale & test drive. Working in distribution ( not cars ) for many years, I appreciate some of the economics involved. I believe that the ready availability of 2 C6s equipped as I wanted to test drive them, and a willingness to allow me to drive each – as well as the convenience of purchase and trade of my current ride to a dealer within a half hour drive of where I live combine to be worth ‘something’. Versus either selling my car separately & flying 1,000 miles to pick it up ( sales tax is an issue here as well ) , or driving 1,000 miles to trade in my existing car & 1,000 miles back in the new C6 – or arranging Museum delivery in Bowling Green. . . It is definitely worth something, to me, but there is a limit to the $$ amount I will assign to that.
Anyway – my point is really: Car salespeople are often accused ( and rightly so, in many cases ) of having low or no ethics in their business dealings with customers. I happen to believe that deceiving a car dealer \ salesperson into an erroneous understand that you are serious about buying a car from them is not ethically OK.
Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
- Ray
Seeing a C6 in my future.
In my case, the C6 will also be my only car & Daily Driver. I cannot ( yet ) afford to have a C6 as a “Pleasure Only” weekend for fun car.
There were therefore several issues that I wanted to evaluate that 1) I could only evaluate in a test drive and 2) were issues that would have been of much less importance if this was a second or third car and not used for my daily commute, etc.
I have enough experience to understand that my priorities and my perception of ride characteristics ( for example ) are not exactly the same as anyone else who test drives and publishes reports. And the behavior of the new A6 trans. was of particular interest to me – and I have seen only one published report of this version.
A test drive is also the only way I know of to evaluate several other dynamic options, such as the differences between the Z51 and F55 – and whether \ how much they matter to your taste, in the context of what they cost compared to the Base suspension. Or even to judge whether or not you’ll require the telescoping steering wheel – only available with the 3LT package, at almost $5K, and including a bunch of other stuff you may or may not want or need.
But that’s just me.
- Ray
Odd in some respects, I’ll freely admit.
thanks.
The GMID certificates are easily available, but it may be against the rules of Edmunds to post details here. I obtained one easily for my 2006 Corvette.
If explicitly allowed by the host here, I can post details of how to get one if anybody's interested.
With Corvette it is not as simple as with most other cars. Dealers have allocations based on prior sales, if you didn't sell it before you don't get one now even if you have dozens of willing customers. So, it isn't a question of what is a good deal in the market, it is a question of what is best for that local dealer. If they only sell 6 to 12 per year and get impulse buyers then they know if you don't buy the next allocation it will sit for a month or so and someone will pay top dollar. It's only the large volume dealers that know they have to move all their allocations that have a need to really 'deal'. This then continues to keep them at the top of the supply chain when the new models come out and they get top dollar for every one they move through the lot. FWIW
Randy
I am aware of the allocation issues unique to purchase of a C6.
And I agree that there certainly are ‘small allocation’ dealers, with limited stock and few to sell each year.
And there are clearly a ( relatively ) few dealers with very large allocations of Corvettes – and they typically have stock & can order with reasonable expectation of having the ordered car built quickly.
The Dealers that fit into this high volume category, though, in my research, do NOT “. . .get top dollar for every one they move through the lot”.
The ones I am aware of ( Les Stanford, Kerbeck, etc. ) actually offer significant discounts on their C6s – not selling them for “top dollar”, compared to dealers that try to sell their allocation for MSRP – or even more.
Kerbeck, for example, I see is currently offering $4,500 off MSRP on in stock 2007 C6 Coupes – with a couple of dozen available at this pricing. A link on Les Stanford’s web site says they honor GMID as well as GM Supplier & GM Employee discounts. And I believe that discounts to ‘others’ are similar to Kerbeck’s.
Am I misinterpreting what you wrote?
My local dealer does not accept GMID, but my “GUESS” is that $3,500 to $4K off could be done on a 3LT A6 ( MSRP over $52K = what I want ) but perhaps a bit less on a 1LT w/manual trans. And a greater discount is likely for the remaining 2006s they still have. They currently have over 35 2006 & 2007 C6s in stock ( excluding Z06s ).
Note that in some cases, at some dealers, obtaining the ‘best’ discounted prices require that you contact a particular salesperson. Likely because that person truly does specialize in selling Corvettes. My salerep does – and knows much more about the product that most typical sales dweebs. Though if you require a Tahoe at some time, that’s OK too . . .
I have done a fair amount of research on the C6 and the purchase process.
Some here may not find $50K to be enough money to bother being an informed buyer. I certainly do. In spending $50 to a hundred bucks on a small household appliance ( a small microwave or a toaster oven, for example ) I will typically spend a small amount of time to try to insure that what I choose will function as I want & not break Day One. Because of the inconvenience & time involved in replacement.
At something approaching 1,000 times that amount, I am well motivated to do much more significant research to insure both that the item will be what I expect & that I pay a reasonable price – and that I understand the process to some level.
Obsessive?
Possibly.
- Ray
Trying hard to avoid even the slightest case of “buyers remorse” . .
No intent ( on my part, at least ) to be mysterious.
Personally, I happen to live across the street from a guy that has worked at the Doraville GM assembly plant, just North of Atlanta, for many years. I talked with him....
- Ray
Not very mysterious...
"This then continues to keep them at the top of the supply chain when the new models come out and they get top dollar ... "
The big dealers were getting MSRP for the first year of the new c6 model, which for them is top dollar. Then as the model ages, as you note, they discount to keep up their allocations and not sit on inventory. The cycle is long but that gives them good return over the long haul, I presume. Mid volume dealers, like Fichtner in Montana, goes with MSRP or just $1k off early on and then matches the big people during the run while picking up a few extra units from places that find themselves with inventory going into winter and want to unload it. That's how he built a respectable allocation.
I agree with you about research, that's why I didn't buy local and got our second one for almost $12k off at the end of the C5 run. That might be when I get a C6
Randy
PS Thanks for the GMID input, I didn't really understand it compared to supplier discount, etc.
Jayelleseven, I know how you feel. I am a 27 year old CPA here is SoCal and no dealer would give me the time of day when I showed up at the dealer and was looking at the one Vette in the showroom. Good thing I had a connections with the owner of the dealership. Well I plan to buy in about a year with museum delivery, 6 speed convertible.
I am in the same situation. Have a 2001 S2000, 15K miles, silver/red interior, mugen hardtop. Thought I would keep for life but now interested in the Vette Z with the 505hp.
Have to say, these post are making me a little nervous though. My S has never once been in the dealer for a repair. I know most the happy owners don't post vs owners with problems. Anyway, keep me posted on your buying search (which is always half the fun for me). I am looking to buy another silver with red interior, but like the Honda, I won't pay over MSRP. Dealers in St. Louis wanted 5K over for the S2000 in 2001, I found one in Souix Falls, SD and paid $800 under sticker and they shipped it to me for $400 bucks.
Autoweek has many ads in the back for Vette's so don't get taken in by your local dealer.
Anyway, keep me posted on your decision. I am a manual transmission guy. Think automatics are for mini-vans. Not a physician, but have been in pharma for 30 years.
Best of luck to the both of us. I know I am paying double for the Vette, hope the quality, build, fit and finish are just par with the 32K honda?
St. Louis
You are not alone in that sentiment.
Corvette stats for MY 2006 indicate a LOT of Vette mini-van demand . . .
According to the Bowling Green plant web site.
Coupes built with the new A6 automatic: 10967 = 66.1%
Verts built with automatic: 8127 = 72.9%
More roadster mini-vans than coupe mini-vans – percentage wise.
( Z06 = 0 & 0% )
- Ray
Expecting to order a coupe mini-van within 30 days . . .
I can also give you useful pointers, such as courtsey delivery to any dealer you choose, and my personal impression if you are interested.
I will publicly stress that I am just a fellow car enthusiast like other forum members and not related to any aspect of car selling with any entity, so please take my statements with a healthy dose of skepticism..
Randy
See any Vipers with auto, lets put that at a 100%. A Z06, nah lets go with 100% manual. See any S2000's with an auto, no, to much engine displacement to the tranny for an auto to handle. 100% manual. And Please, Don't think those paddle shifters are the same as in the Indy cars either my friend.
Anyway, that was a sidebar of my topic, so I go down to Elco Chevy (one of the largest Vette sellers in the Midwest) today, they say there is a two year wait list for the Z06, strange that I can go over to Ebay and buy one tonight with less than 10 miles on it, for less than over MSRP than the dealer wants? Then I go into the garage and talk to a vette mechanic. I ask him how about reliability, he says, stay away from the 2005's which have problems all over the place. He said that about 60% of the common problems were fixed in 2006 and he is hoping in a further reduction for 2007. Said he would wait at least two years before getting a Z06 before the bugs are worked out. I told him that my little S2000 has never been in the shop, granted its a 2001 with only 15K miles. He told me, don't even expect that with a vette.
I understand that, I think the car is more high performance, but when your talking a second or two difference, similar road test parameters and the fit and finish of a S2000, I think I will sit back and wait awhile. Then I arrive home a look at todays Consumer Reports dated October 2006; two cars rated POOR in reliability were the Chevrolet Z06 @ $76,730 and the Chevrolet Convertible @ $57,020. PG Though I love the car (I am sorry I prefer manual and do believe automatics are for minivans) and its your best performance for the dollar, I don't like sitting in a shop waiting room eating donuts and coffee. Consumer Reports also gave the Z06 thumbs down for fit and finish. To me, at over 50K, you need to get the fit and finish getting a decent grade, also the interior, though now better and different than my Suburban (have an automatic there), its still below par for a 40-70K car and no better than my Honda @ 32K.
Just my thoughts, I love the Vette, would like a Z06, maybe I will get one, but from the post, mechanic at Elco and Consumer's reports I will wait.
Now you are talking real confusion. The Z06 didn't come out until 2006 so there are no 2005 Z06's. Since the C6 did have issues in 2005, that's ok since it was the first year of production and most know to stay away unless you are committed diehard, same would be true for 2006 on Z06. As to wanting same fit and finish you are doomed to be disappointed, it's getting better but what it's trying to catch up with is getting better as well. Then again even a 350HP stock C5 has more than can be useful on the street, unless you plan to take it to the track or do driving classes the 505HP/470torque are more likely to get you in trouble than not.
Also don't get why you say to not consider one off experiences here and then conclude that some mechanic and Consumer Reports are a good basis for a decision. Hummm....
I think I will go to my local dealership and hope they at least let us sit inside one of them....
At 50-60K, first year reliability should not be POOR with your flagship car, or maybe you accept that build quality.
You won't see that in the Vette's competition and this will hurt the brand. You don't put a 50K product on the market and say, "Ya, everyone knows we will get it right in two years", this is not 1973 or for GM, maybe it is.
If I want a Z06, just let me spend my money how I want to.
If you want whatever model, great for you, I am not going to care what you do with the car. The beauty of the Z06, is that your getting supercar performance at a good value, you can argue that if you wish. I do feel consumer reports is a good basis for decision, maybe you don't, maybe you have not read the magazine article, but its not good and the C6 and Z06 are both rated? Read, then comment on the facts. The mechanic in "just his experience", seem to verify the data from CR. Maybe you can not put the two together. You will have to tell me what the "P" factor is? The is a Corvette Certified Mechanic at Elco Chevy, one of the largest Vette dealers in the nation,is it Jim Hill, no. Also, you can get into trouble with any car you don't have the ability or maturity to drive. If its a horsepower cut off that you deem that one gets you into trouble, above a certain point is for the track, then your missing the point of the design and build of the car, versus the competiton, go get yourself a vega. People are not spending 70-85K for track cars, please.
OUT
People should buy what they like.
But, I just have to mention a few things.
I've NEVER seen an automatic 'miss a shift'.
In years of driving an automatic, on 2 lane roads or any such driving conditions, I can easily mash on the accelerator, change lanes, and be around a car much quicker than someone can decide to downshift (and how many gears), lift on accelerator, get to the clutch, get to the shift, make the shift, release the clutch, and back on the accelerator. In ordinary driving, an automatic just does the job much more efficiently, and most of the time, quicker. An automatics' mechanical reaction will, in general, beat most of the manual drivers out there.
Just how often do you really ever need to 'keep those RPM's up', 'push it to the redline', 'shift down to help braking', or any of the other things that might only be done in a manual.
Drop it into 'D' and drive. If you must keep playing with your toy, get that manual.
Take for example, Porsche's 997 911 turbo. The Auto is faster than the manual 0-60. Or the SLR Maclaren. You can choose to shift it yourself, but (at least the car mag editors) couldn't match the computers (launch control) shifts and look longer to get to 60.
Unless you are Michael Schumacher and terrible gifted at driving (although even he uses SMG in his F1 car) I doubt most of us can really consistently do better than the modern automatic transmission. In a minivan or in a sports car.
I agree, it's fun to drive stick, and for some people it makes them feel more 'manly' and that's fine, we all have reasons for buying our 'toys'. But some of us buy autos because it makes the car more pleasurable for us (some of us live where there is a lot of traffic!) so please don't disparage us as 'minivan drivers'.
tom
As for the Z06, it's supercar performance at less than half the price, and, despite the fact it may not be as reliable as a Honda Civic (or your S2000, for that matter) it is much more reliable than your average supercar (Ferrari, Lamborghini, 911 Turbo) and costs much less to maintain. (OK, the NSX is quite a reliable car, but it's the exception- and of questionable supercar status anyway)
One final point, yes, people spend $70k for cars they want to drive on the track. In fact, they will spend far more than that on a car that is only track legal. It just means they have a lot of "discretionary cash" that they can use. I don't know where you live, but if you live by a major racetrack go down sometime when one of the local car clubs is having a track day. I'm sure you'll see some very expensive cars (and some very inexpensive cars too) and some very happy drivers!
Yes, I agree with you, GM has it's problems. But the reliability of the C6 is the least of the General's problems right now. But if it makes you feel better to buy a car in it's 3rd or 4th year of production, by all means wait. It's a long wait though!
Good luck.
tom
As another example, if you want the best in audio and/or video, one of my passions, CR is the LAST place to look. They'll steer you to frumpy, mediocre, mid-level stuff every time.
Finally, high-performance items of any ilk are almost always more tempermental, requiring more care and maintenance.
That's just it, the press release said poor 'predicted' reliability, I'm presuming that means based on past data which by definition means from the base C6, not the new Z06. That was the reason the article said it placed lower than the winning 911, so considered it a major factor.
As to $70k cars on track, as has been pointed out, I see many well beyond that and I pass a few of them every so often with my under $50k C5. GT3's come to mind quickly but there are plenty of others not to mention a GT3 Cup car at a recent event. Lots of discretionary income here in Calif. so that may be unusual, but I can't know too much about elsewhere.
And yes, I did read your original post, it mentioned the Z06 and then talked about 2005.
Reliability issues come with any vehicle, jus less likely with some. Some ppl complain about a car always being at the dealer while others have never even needed a wheel alignment...
anyway, I hear the Vette is getting a new engine in 2008? N this doesnt involve the new stingray or blue devil as some speculate coming out around the same time...
Wha? Indy and NASCAR racers use auto? No? Then why not?
I do agree, CU does favor the vanilla cars and the high end is not rated well, but if you read the article and please do read the article before commenting it does compare other high end sports cars, actually nothing below 46K. I would imagine we all read all the auto rags, from MT, CD, Autoweek, Automobile, R&T, etc. Yes, super high end, you will get simlar performance Auto versus Stick, but this forum is not about those cars. You will not find that with the Vette (see auto versus manual performance) and if you get it (an automatic) with the Z06 Vette your doing some great work in your garage, cause they don't make it (kinda ends that discussion on this car for auto does it not). If you like the automatic in the other Vette's, it fits your lifestyle, buy it and enjoy, thats not my message. My message is your not getting an AUTOMATIC IN A Z06, as the S2000, or VIPER. They have not found an automatic that will handle that torque, nor is there a demand for these cars with auto's with it. They sell fine, they are niche cars that don't effect the bottom line of GM, Honda or Dodge with there actual sales revenue anyway. You may want to answer this question though, why is there no AUTO with the Z06 Vette? One final thought, would not Vette owners on this board (read about 50 post on the thread) be so much better served by GM with a 50K plus car with a little better warranty than the Chevy Cobalt? Can't they give you girls and guys 4 years 50K miles bumper to bumper without bucking up more $$?. Is the Vette the worst warranty in the over 50K cars? Why? See Buick, Caddilac, Saab divisions with much less expensive cars, but 25% better warranty coverage. Maybe a lesson from Hyundai to be learned here? Owner satisfaction goes way up when you ain't got to pay for repair (South Korean Proverb). Have a good and safe holiday weekend, whatever you may drive and lets be thankful we can all choose what we like and afford to have fun.
I want to drive, not have some computer try to do a better job than I might or might not be able to.
Most of the time, I even disable the traction control on my Mustang.
I don't even want a navigation system: too distracting; ruins the simplicity of the dash (high-tech nerdy look); and if you don't know where you are, you don't need a $1700 GPS system -- take out a $4 map.
Also, auto adds weight to a car, detracts from gas mileage.
The only advantage I can see to auto is that once in a while it frees up a hand.
Personally, I've shifted all my life and feel much more comfortable with manual, feel I have more control, than with an auto. I can downshift on curves, hills, in emergencies, etc. With manual, I can drive soft, at low RPM, hard at high RPM, or anywhere in between. And I really don't like auto, especially on take-off.
I bought my '07 Corvette with manual transmission, without a computer screen and without extra crap... er... I mean gadgetry. My upgrades were the 2LT interior (for side air bags) and Z51 for suspension and gearing.
But its a personal matter. Different strokes for different folks. And I do concede that when I test drove last year's M3 with the SMG transmission, I was pretty excited. It was a little like a video game. Gears available at the touch of a button. I can see that it would be intoxicating after getting used to that type of driving.
That's an outraggeous difference. 25% swing! And that 1 second is the difference between a really fast car and an exoctically fast car. 5.1 is marginally better than a supped-up, $35k Japanese 4 banger (STi) or some quick V6s (350z). 4.1 is $100k ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche Carrera S territory.
The 5.1sec slow pokes are the numskulls at Consumer reports (I think -- I was flipping through a mag earlier today). They posted 5.1 with a non-z51 convertible. Undoubtedly, that's the slowest possible C6. btw., they also advise buyers to avoid the "overly harsh ride of the z51 package". I like their maintenance info. Very handy. But woe be the day I go there for driving excitement advice.
The 4.1 and 4.2 times were posted by Car and Driver (I think...) in their 2005 reviews. And I believe Chevy claims 4.5 0-60.
but YES I WANNA be a Baller and do 4.1!!
As far as real world results, they are ALWAYS slower and who knows how many trials magazines do cuz sometimes they achieve really good times.
As for the guy that got the Z51 with 2LT, did you get a good deal? thats exactly what im looking for-- coupe!
Not sure about manuals, but I bet they do not run up a high rpm, and probably do not rush shifts.
I'm not surprised their times are the slowest.
With regard to everyone reading the various reviews in CU (which I didn't read) or Car and Driver (I think) it seems to me that the Vette does not fit nicely in anyone's categories. For example, in the review that I read they were comparing the Vette to $100K cars such the Ferari and Lambroghini. So when it comes to fit an finish, the Vette was not the top pick. With regard to performance, the Vette beat every other car that they tested it against. So depending on why you are buying a Vette you may decide to buy one of the other cars. Me, I am stick to the Vette and am willing to give up the fine Italian leather to save the 50%. Besides, you can alway get the seats re-upholstered in better leather than the Ferari and still be saving a chunck of change. Corvettes as I have learned is a very unique car that is in a category of its own. As a result, Corvette owners that I have met have tended to be happy owners, and very unique themselves. Most importantly of all they would not have bought any other car regardless of the time spent in the shop or any other reson just because they love driving them.
Let's face it, F1 cars are the fastest track cars on the planet (yes, even faster than Nascar!), and they use paddle shifters. IMHO, the true performance cars of the future will only have 2 pedals- and they will be faster too.
I do agree that you can probably outshift the current C6 auto (for now) but it's only a matter of time before the Vette get's a more advanced tranny too. And who knows, maybe even Nascar will eventually get them too!
tom
tom
Just some food for thought. I personally love to shift myself also, but it just wasn't practical and I figured the 6spd auto was a reasonable compromise, and it is. It's still a very fun car, even in auto form.
tom