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A lot of cars with problems get dumped on Ebay.
I think I would call the seller and ask for some compensation and I think Ebay may have a process you can go through if you are wronged.
The situation is compounded by the fact that Pro Auto Group has been committing this fraud against dozens of unsuspecting buyers under the cover of “100% Positive Feedback” on Ebay Motors. A sham based partially on backend payoffs and coercion resulting in “mutually withdrawn” negative feedback. I even found one individual who bought a “certified” vehicle that was claimed to have never have been in a wreck - and he subsequently found it had been in a head on collision. He also found that the service records provided for the vehicle were falsified! Another lady I talked to bought a car from Pro Auto Group with fraudulent odometer mileage.
In my case, the dealer posted negative feedback referring to me as “a terrorist” and claiming that my 15 year old daughter had burned out the clutch – a car that I had had for less than 6 hours! It was almost laughable if it hadn’t been such a disturbing fabrication! Even more disturbing is that Ebay Motors not only failed to act, they were directly complicate in this ongoing farce. In less than 24 hours after I posted negative feedback, Pro Auto Group was able to get Ebay to arbritrarily to suspend my account and have my feedback deleted! There was no hearing. No arbitration process. No inquiry whatsoever. Ebay arbitrarily and summarily backed Pro Auto Group because of their leverage as a power seller.
If you suspect fraud on the part of the seller, file a complaint with, among others, the Texas Attorney General. Further, if a business publicly called me a "terrorist" I would immediately file a defamation suit against them - any jury would look disfavorably on such conduct.
From your post, though, I can't help wondering something else. The vehicle in question may have, in fact, been defect free at the time of purchase. Cars do break. Clutches wear out. I would question how anyone could claim clutch failure was due to clear "long term, pre-existing damage." Perhaps there's some additional information not included in your post.
But I have to ask sseale, why would you buy a vehicle on ebay?
The evidence of prior damage comes from the fact that in addition to the clutch being burned out, the flywheel was damaged. Something several expert mechanics said was only possible over the course of time and over 10s of thousand of miles of driving. We only had the car less than 6 hours before the car stuck in second gear. Since the car only has 50,000 miles, we suspect there may be a fraudulent odometer reading as well - something we're looking into.
Manual cars are funny things. Driven properly, clutches can easily last 100,000 plus miles. Or (as my wife proved when we were much younger) they can wear in 10K if misused.
I've fooled around with ebay a bit (and went 500 miles last fall to buy my daughter the car of her dreams which, fortunately, worked out fine). It seems to me it is a place where ALOT of marginal cars are hawked by used car dealers (whether declared or not). I stay clear of such dealers in all circumstances because, in addition to the possibility of misrepresentation, there simply is little to assure me that their products are good.
Better bets are new car dealers handling clean trades and private individuals. When I'm buying used from an individual, usually it is the seller I'm most interested in. If they bought it new, have the service records, and have already boughts another new one, it's highly likely to be a safe buy.
I finally bit the bullet and went on Ebay Thursday night. I received about 5 or 6 phone calls and emails within the first 36 hours and just took a paypal deposit on it.
ALOT of folks say Ebay is no way to sell a car, and they could be right. HOWEVER, its a great way to advertise one. 10 days of a full-color nationwide ad on a site visited by millions of people a day, all for less than $50, is pretty effective.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Could this have happened at a Dealership?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I doubt it even happened on ebay.
tidester, host
I bought a tenth one and ALMOST bought an eleventh.
#10 1970 Ford F-100 pickup, rough as a cob, $406.00
#11 1996 Olds Ciera sedan, cop impound, $172.50
The truck ran fine for four months, required a steering bushing, a couple wheel cylinders for the rear brakes, a good brake bleeding, and two used tires. It was stolen from me in October 2004. Which really was sad because it wasn't worth stealing IMO. But what was sadder is the seller never gave me a title, disappeared from eBay, and there wasn't anything I could do with it other than drive it until the tags went out in December. But someone took it away before I got those last 2 months out of it and then I was going to try and bond a title.
The Ciera was said to run and drive and I was standing in line at the Greyhound bus counter to go pick it up when the seller called and said he couldn't get it to start. He had walked back to it and was going to drive it up front and put the paper tag on it but it was locked up from sitting for 6 months I guess. He told me not to worry about it and I saved myself a big headache.
The Caprice wagon I had got towed away by the city. Seems they decided one night to make the street a no parking zone and I couldn't afford to tow it around the corner to the apartment's parking lot. So it went away.
The Ciera I gave to a mechanic in exchange for the brake work on the truck.
And now I'm looking to buy two cars from a guy in Missouri. A 1988 Town Car for $275 and a 1977 Cutlass for $299. They both are said to run and drive. I missed out on bidding but I called him and he says he'll re-list them soon. I can't wait. My very first car was a 1975 Cutlass so I'm keeping it, and my wife likes the shade of blue on the Lincoln.
What happened, according to court documents: Dewan Anthony Horne had invented a scam that was both cunning and criminal. He would advertise vintage "muscle cars" for sale on eBay and offer a good price. Once Horne struck up a conversation with a prospective buyer, he'd suggest coming to Indianapolis and paying for the car in cash or the equivalent.
The hitch: the cars for sale didn't exist. When the would-be purchaser showed up at a garage on the east side of Indianapolis, Horne and at least one gun-toting accomplice would attempt to rob the eBay buyer of the cash and anything else of value.
Horne didn't seem very good at his line of work. Beyond the detail of being nabbed by the police, court documents indicate that he managed to complete only one robbery.
I personally think that rather than listen to people who just want to talk someone out of using eBay (and ultimately avoiding the issue of why buyers don't want to play the traditional games), listen to the people who have had good and bad luck and figure out what the lucky ones did right and the unlucky ones did wrong, and see if it's worth your while to pursue it.
Interesting that eBay real estate wasn't as successful as ebay motors, though.
Let's see.. what do I currently own that I bought on eBay....
93 740i (My 6-speed project car)
88 M5
95 525i Wagon (Another project car)
86 535i Umm.. ditto.
80 Euro-Spec 635csi umm.. also a project..
There's 6.. and I forget a few others I am sure. Is it safe to buy a car on eBay? Sure it is but you have to be pragmatic. I used to sell a lot of my wholesale trades on eBay instead of sending them to the auction but the aggravation made it just no longer worth it.
Here's one of the ways I used to word my ads...
"The car that you are bidding on is a car that we took in on trade towards a new or pre-owned car on our lot. These cars that we auction HAVE NOT been inspected by our serice department and may very well have mechanical or cosmetic needs. We consider these to be WHOLESALE units and as such they are sold without ANY warranty whatsoever. These are cars that do not qualify for retail on our lot because they are either too old, have too many miles, or are in inadequate condition for us to offer as retail units. Generally any car with more than 50,000 miles or older than 4 model years is wholesaled by us regardless of condition. This means that they may have oil leaks, need brakes, tires, shocks, or other mechanical work, or you might get lucky and just need to change the oil and go. We CANNOT and DO NOT guarantee ANY car sold on eBay to be roadworthy for a cross-country drive or capable of passing any state safety or emissions inspection. All that we guarantee is what we observe from a cursory look at the car and what we have seen with our own eyes. You are welcome to inspect any car up for auction BEFORE you bid and BEFORE the auction ends. We are open 7 days a week for your convenience. Please ask any and all questions BEFORE you bid and BEFORE the end of the auction. High bidders are REQUIRED to contact us and place a $500 or 10% deposit (Whichever is greater) to secure the vehicle. Failure to make a timely deposit per our terms of sale may mean that the car will be sold to a third party. Your bid is considered as acceptance of our terms of sale."
It's not verbatim, but that's the jist of it.
So after reading that any sane person would realize that these cars are absolutely sold as seen, as-is, as traded, whatever... right?
Wrong.
We sell something like a 1989 BMW 525i with close to 200k miles on it for something silly like $1700. It's got relatively faded paint, hot air and some cosmetic issues. It runs and drives and looks OK, but it's an old car. We also state that we have NO service records at all on the car.
Some guy buys this car, flys in, hops in it and proceeds to drive it back to some place like Minneapolis or Chicago or wherever from South Florida. He asks the salesman "Is this car ready to drive back home?" Salesman responds "Well, like we said in the auction, we have no idea... the car's old, has a lot fo miles and we didn't check it over in our shop... could it make it back to your home? I have no idea sir" Guess what happens? it breaks down on the guy's way home. He flips out and goes nuts on us, leaves us negative feedback, calls constantly demanding to be reimbursed for a blown water pump or whatever $300-400 repair it was.
Ditto with another car. Lady buys it, takes it to her mechanic, it needs brakes and has a power steering leak. Yep, no shocker there, old car that we never serviced. Again, we reiterate our selling policy, remind her that this car would retail on a dealer's lot for $6900 or so and that she bought it for $4500. No dice, we're bad guys, she goes to the BBB, Attorney General, leaves us negative FB, you name it. BBB and AG's office ask her "Was the car represented as being retail ready and/or sold with a warranty?" "Umm.. no I bought it as-is" "Well then that's what AS-IS means"
Meanwhile, I could have sent either car to the auction with the title, got similar money for it as-is and never seen it again. That's what I went back to doing.. If I am going to sell cars for wholesale, I'll do it painlessly.
In other words, don't expect to steal a car for cheap on eBay and have it not need any money spending on it.. if it turns out to be flawless, then you got lucky.. very lucky. That's the biggest problem that I see on eBay, people don't use common sense and forget that you get what you pay for.
Now, that being said.. if the seller has generally excellent feedback from the sale of cars, allows a pre-buy inspection and is a verified seller of cars.. then It's worth taking a shot.
Let's face it, if you're buying a late-model car that's under warranty, as long as it's clean and has not been in an accident (Remember that pre-buy inspection...) then it's a great way to save money or find that rare car... I've seen some late-model stuff bring dead wholesale on there... if you can get a 2 year old car with 30k on it there for cheap and it hasn't been wrecked, go for it.. worst you cna get hit for is a brake job and a set of tires.
It's also GREAT for finding freaky and obscure stuff, I mean, right now there's FOUR Morris Minor Travellers on there... that's a scarce car that you hardly ever see at British car shows and there's FOUR on eBay!
Want a Stutz Blackhawk? There's a 72 on there.
Want a Singer Gazelle? There's one on there.
Want an Alfa-Romeo 164? There's usually half a dozen on there.
It's the best way to find really obscure stuff... guy I know bought a Jaguar S-Type with a manual transmission on there.. he looked here in the NY City area for 6 months for one, went on eBay and there were 3 listed!
That's a great disclaimer, too. You would think that would cover everything, that people would know that a car older than ten years old is bound to have something wrong with it or GO wrong with it, that's why the original owner got rid of it!
I think it's fair to expect a newer car to be without major problems, for the most part, and to expect the seller to be up-front about why they're selling it, especially a private seller. Even there, it pays to research and not just buy a car that "looks good" - you need to stay away from the trouble-prone vehicles no matter how good it looks unless, like a lot of Volkswagen owners, you are prepared to accept all the electrical problems that are bound to come with it!
Now, granted, nothing is perfect... but it amazes me the idiot magnet that eBay has become. And in saying that, I mean that eBay appeals to the seemingly vast majority of people out there with Potato Buds for brains.. your garden variety imbecile. Someone puts a $120k muscle car up there for a $9500 BuyItNow with a insane story... someone always falls for it and gets hooked. Folks, nobody sells a cherry Shelby GT350 for $9500.. well, maybe they did 25 years ago...but these days it's more like $119,500. And they are SUPER easy to move too.. muscle cars are hotter than a Sauna in hell right now.
"Hey, I sent the guy $3,000 deposit and he was supposed to fedex me the Shelby Cobra from Europe where he's stationed!"
Yeah, right.
Same people who buy a 150k mile 12-15 year old BMW/Benz/etc on the cheap and expect it to be problem free. I have a rocket scientist customer who did this with a 97 740iL.... One of my customers is a dealer and is selling a PERFECT one for about $11,500. Nitwit buys one on eBay for $7,500, it needs $4,000 worth of work and he's pissed off. he reads this board too because I told him too, but it's OK, I told him he was a fool and he knows it now.
I told him they cost $11-12k to own one way or another... needs the usual, intake seals and oil separator, ball joints and bushings all over the place, brakes, a window regulator or two, new catalytic convertors, ad nauseum. Typical for one with 110k on it. Eh, I own one and own a BMW Indy shop as well, what the heck do I know?
I'm sorry your eBay selling experience has been, shall we say, less than pleasant. I've been both a buyer and a seller, and part of me wishes eBay would go back to that more pleasant "garage sale" atmosphere it had before it started allowing businesses to horn in. But, as you say, the careful and sensible person can probably still find a bargain, as long as they know beforehand that it's almost impossible to guarantee that cars, being machines, will never wear out some part of it!
I've sold over 500 cars on eBay.. just that the past couple of years it's gone right down the tubes... all of a sudden people learned how to use feedback as extortion.
That works both ways. When I've bought something and paid immediately, I expect positive feedback right then. Most sellers won't give positive feedback until I've given them positive feedback.
But I do agree that fee-bay has really gone down the tubes in recent years since they got away from being "America's garage sale". I don't even bother looking for something there unless it's something rare.
>But I do agree that fee-bay has really gone down the tubes in recent
Amen. :mad:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was recently browsing through craigslist the other day and I came across an ad for a 2001 Lexus RX with 90,000 miles and a clean title for $3,800. Out of curiosity, as I have always wanted that particular car, I emailed the guy. He said that the car is only $3,800 but he is in Utah and I live near DC. His offer was that his brother works for a towing company and he would be able to ship the vehicle for me for free. The money would be transfered through a service such as Western Union. If I receive the car and am dissatisfied, I would be able to send it back and have my money fully refunded.
Does this seem like a legitimate offer that I should pursue? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Run away! Run away!
Your money will probably go to Canada or Nigeria.
The car doesn't exist.
If it's too good to be true, it isn't true!
There is only one proper course of action - flag the ad.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
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But it is also alot easier to check. I mean, the guy provides an address and phone number. You'd see if that number applies to the area, first of all. Call him up and say "I'll be in that area on business in the next few days. I'll swing by your house!"
You'd find out pretty quick if this was serious or not.
Out of strict boredom, I've gone a few rounds with the scammers just to see where it leads. I remember one in particular that claimed, while they were in another country, the car was in storage in Philly. Little did they know I am very close to Philly. I pressed many times for the address of the storage facility. Told them I had the check in hand and ready to send as soon as I got that address where I can go see the car. They finally gave up on me and stopped responding.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Those of you who've sold vehicles to private parties, through Ebay, Craigslist, newspaper adds, or signs on the window, do you follow any guidelines that could be of value to other readers? Any do's and don'ts, or unusual experiences you'd care to share?
Rule #1 - Don't overprice your vehicle. Just like houses, it's a rare buyer that will overpay as there's simply too much competition.
Rule #2 - It's rare to get more than one seriously interested buyer in short order so it's best to sell it to that person. In other words, if it's at all possible, don't let your buyer get away by trying to squeeze that last dollar out of 'em. Of course, if you're in no hurry, you can wait and wait as a previous poster suggested.
Rule #3 - Always include the following information in your ad: year, make, model, mileage, and price. Your wasting time (not just your own) and money if you omit any of those five items.
Rule #4 - Do not misrepresent the vehicle in any manner, shape, or form. People have such low expectations as to honesty anymore that you'll build lots of rapport by being candid about your vehicles weak points (and virually all have them).
First I shovelled out all the junk that had accumulated in the car. Then I spent $20 on having the car washed, and detailed at my local car wash. I took clear photographs of the exterior and interior (remembering to blank out the license plates). I wrote up a detailed factual description of the vehicle without putting in any adjectives such as "excellent" or "good", but at the same time putting in key selling points such as first owner, accident-free, detailed maintenance records available, garage-kept, non-smoker etc. I also put the VIN number on the description.
I also spent a week researching Edmunds, KBB etc for a sale price. I had it appraised by Carmax (they give a detailed inspection report which is handy in a private sale) as well as a couple of local used car dealers. I also scoured Craiglist and Ebay to find out how much similar cars were selling for. I finally settled on a price.
I posted my listing on Craiglist. Within an hour I started getting "bites". More than 50% of these inquiries were from scammers, offering to buy my car without inspection and paying through a wire transfer service or cashiers check, and advising me that their shipper would pick up the vehicle. I also got a few genuine inquiries, including requests for more details on the condition, and time for an inspection.
The first guy who showed up to see the car test drove it, and inspected the car thoroughly. He said that he would come back the next day with his wife and the money. He never showed up.
The second guy who showed up test drove the car, and inspected the engine, went under the car. He made an offer which was $2000 less than what I had asked for. When I refused, he left me his number and asked me to call him if I did changed my mind. I did not call him. After several hours he called me and offered $500 below what I had asked. I accepted. He came next day with his wife and the money and we completed the transaction.
The guy requested a Bill of Sale (though one is not required in Illinois) so that he had some proof in case he got stopped by the cops for driving a car without plates. So I put together a Bill of Sale with an "As is" warranty clause after seeing several templates on the internet. There was nothing wrong with the car at the time of sale, but I just wanted to make sure that this clause was included to safeguard me.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I would say that the request for a copy of the drivers license is reasonable (for title and registration) but NOT social security.
Also, I was just curious how you are buying a car from NJ while you are in CA. Dont you want to inspect and test drive the car? If the dealer is offering the car at a deep discount which makes it economical to buy from across the country, what is his reason for such a discount?
I would do some more investigation before I do this, and I would certainly not give out my SSN unless I am financing it through him.
Do not give him your SSN at all.
That is complicated by the fact that some states use the social security number as your driver's license number too.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
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i did my homework regarding the car and the dealer. it's a '07 prius with 27,000 miles, still under warranty (which transfers with the car). also, got it through ebay, where the seller has a long, dependable history and is interested in keeping a good reputation. through ebay, the purchase is covered up to $50,000 against fraud and more. i don't expect to have to deal with any of that, but i decided it was worth the risk for getting just the car i wanted.
the request for identification info did make me a bit nervous initially. i just hadn't come across it before. all good there now.
it wasn't too steep a discount, though i ended saving $6-8000 off what i would've paid for a new one. and used prius' just can't be found in my neck of the woods. people get hold of one and don't let go....
When you are on Craigslist shopping for ANYTHING, how on Earf can you make sure you are "dealing with respectable people?"
Do a background check on the person? Interview their parents?
Craigslist is something you should be VERY CAREFUL if buying a high-dollar item. Buying used clothes for your kids or a cheap this or that is fine. But you generally have zero recourse if someone cheats you.
I will add a caveat:
Personally, Craigslist saved my butt once. I needed to get rid of a high-dollar lease vehicle that was WAY TOO MUCH VEHICLE for my family (it shrunk because of a divorce). I was in the bucket BIG-TIME and could not sell it or trade it and it was too expensive to drive.
I was on the verge of seriously considering allowing the bank to Repo the vehicle, which would have of course killed my credit - and I was home-shopping at the time !!!
I posted a CL ad, and LO AND BEHOLD I found a family who "needs a vehicle that size but we have terrible credit" and they were willing to pay me cash each month for a portion of the $872 payment on the vehicle. I took a large risk by trusting them, but they WERE honest people, thank gosh.
They ended up keeping it for a little over two years and helping me pay it off in full. I paid around $15,000 on the truck AFTER they leased it from me, but they kept it until it was paid off and I signed the title over to them at the end. It was a win-win for both of us.
I would not advise that course of action for anyone, but I did want to pass this along as a "risk" which turned out to be luckily worth it for me.
Scammer sells luxury cars on Autotrader.com using fake Boise address (Idaho Statesman)
Steve, visiting host
1) Would you fly to see the car? If so, how long would you stay, and how would you get there, etc?
2) Have it taken to a third-party mechanic (a no-brainer if you didn't do #1)?
3) How did you negotiate pricing?
It's being sold by a car dealership (ad from autotrader and craigslist), so at least it's unlikely to be a complete fraud.
1) The answer to this (and #2) largely depends on what type of dealer has the car. If it's a new car store (especially a VW store), I most likely would be content with high quality photos so long as the service history is documented and the Carfax is good (not that it is any guarantee). Also, would try to wrangle the previous owner's name/number and talk with her/him.
If you do go, it seems to me that you fly into Boston and rent a car for the drive up.
2) Really don't see much point in this on a late model transaction if the caveats in #1 apply. If they don't, I wouldn't buy.
3) Negotiating long distance or in-person is pretty much the same in my direct approach - "I'll pay X dollars" (seller accepts or not) or "what will it take to buy it?" (I accept or not).
What kind of late model VW is worth the hassle of long distance?
As for which car, this is probably going to put me in a world of hurt, but ... I'm leaning towards the VW GTI. My top pick would be a Cooper S, although I'd prefer a 4dr and the GTI does have a 4dr style. My next pick would be the Mazdaspeed 3, with the downsides being it's lower mpg and a bit big (more stationwagon-like instead of hatch). Other cars off my list were the WRX (too ricer), BMW 335i (too expensive to maintain), and Elise (can't drive it anywhere).