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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
Back to the Passat comparison:
* My car has a leather interior so it has no cloth anywhere. Maybe that's the difference.
* I didn't say the 500's interior was nicer then my VW, only that it was quite pleasant to be in. And it was. I'd be perfectly happy moving from the VW. But, sadly, it'll be my wife's car so that's not on the table. I'm 2+ years away.
* The switch gear in the Ford was actually something I thought was excellent in terms of feel. Way better then any American car I have driven recently. Different then the VW, but as good or better.
In the end I guess my only point is not to let the whining about plastic stop you from driving it. Like several people have said: all car interiors are made of plastic. And this car's was reasonably well done.
Happy Car Shopping to you all,
Bill
Subject: Hope for improved seat support in 2004 and 2005 cars.
Would welcome your comments about all of the tested models. re: lumbar support (...about 5'6"
weight about 198.) Suffer from back fatigue after about 50 miles on highway. Your review on your new purchase was great. Thanks lumbar1
OHC came in because the little engines had to have something in order to compete, as they were turning 1500 more rpm, at minimum. Since OHC has been around since the early 1900s forget about refinement. It is all a matter of what is needed as opposed to what is marketable. If OHC sells cars then it is OHC all the way.
So far no complaints.
Is the manual lumbar knob on five hundred on the front side of the cushion just below your right leg kneecap like in my Taurus or is it on the right of the seat facing the passenger seat?
I find I can adjust the lumbar support on my Taurus on the fly, but I rarely do.
I like the manually adjusting lumbar support on the Montego/Five Hundred much better than the power lumbar on my old Crown Vic, the CV's power unit either feels like a basketball is being stuck in my back or just too squishy, if I'm driving the car more than an hour at a time I start to readjust it every few minutes, it never feels quite right. On the Montego, a simple push on the lever, about 2/3 the way down and it felt just right, even better than my old '87 Escort without adjustable lumbar support, which nevertheless had extremely comfy seats for long drives. The Montego's lumbar support feels alot like the old Volvo style adjusters, very good.
Also, do you have any idea on whether the Five-hundred will have the manumatic shifting ability and/or a navigation system some time in the future?
Thanks!
PS, did anyone buy the Montego with the Xenons? I wonder why in the ads they don't show the car with Xenons, I thought they were standard? Meybe it just a "white" light in the car, which ruins the whole thing
but hey, its still a good car from my point of view.
Somebody PLEASE put a question on the next JD POWER survey about how I like the shininess of the Plastic on my car will ya, so I can grade it 1 - 10?
There's roughly around 5-8 plastic variations within the vehicle, which one are you reffering to ? And what interior trim color ?
"Also, do you have any idea on whether the Five-hundred will have the manumatic shifting ability, and/or a navigation system some time in the future? "
IN the mid-cycle refreshning, this might be answered, although too early to tell at this point.
It'll be my turn for a car in a couple/three years and I'm kind of interested in the new Jetta diesel when it becomes available moreso then the next generation Passat.
I'm not yet a 500 owner for related reasons. First, if it was a hybrid it'd be perfect. I'm really worried about world wide demand for oil jacking prices up considerably during the life cycle of my next set of cars so mileage is on my mind.
The other reason was mentioned here earlier in that I want to see how the inventory moves on the dealer lot before I plunk down and miss out on a couple thousand dollars of incentives. Which would buy a LOT of gas...
Cheers,
Bill
Looks like it will have 280hp, but no AWD option. Can anyone say Maxima?
This is the vehicle everyone was waiting for to compare to the 500. Now Ford will have to quicken the rollout of the 3.5l.
If it is priced like the Maxima, it will be more than the 500. Then if the Camry gets a redesign (and this engine), people can talk about what a waste having two similar cars by the same company (just like the Maxima/Altima).
Personally, I'd take the 500, with the new Avalon engine and AWD. Ford SVT...are you listening?
Looks to have grown larger (as expected), which means the new Passat will grow as well. Now we can compare looks of the Jetta (Passat will be styled similar) to the 500.
Price will also increase over the 500, as VW continues to move upscale. I'm sure they will still offer AWD as an option in the Passat.
Any opinions on the potential Passat (using the Jetta as an example) compared to the 500? Many will cross-shop.
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101265
If you read in the trade mags, they almost all say that the new 500 was modeled after the current generation Passat. Which isn't a bad thing in my book.
VW means "the peoples car", and they staked out that niche building nice, inexpensive german engineered cars. They are now moving upscale (Toureg/pheatun) in terms of price and features. Unfortunately, they have to overcome the "people's car" brand association. Hard to do when your car brand name means exactly that.
I'm sure the Passat will surpass both the design and performance of the 500. It will have 2 engine choices (unlike the 500), and a more bangle-inspired design (so far on the vortex, there's 15 pages of replies to the Jetta design - most negative).
And yes, the 500 is priced as an entry level car, with the option to go up in price and features. There will be some overlap and cross shopping on the higher end 500 and the lower passat. Then it will be an under-engined 500 with plenty of goodies versus the entry level passat (cloth, 2.0t, manual tranny). Apples to oranges, different target audience.
And to answer the above question, of course the 500 looks like the passat, Ford hired VW's head designer.
VW will need to outgrow it's namesake before it can be viewed as a luxury brand. And they will HAVE to improve reliability (or preceived reliability).
As for Ford, it seems that they really are broke (out of money), as they did not even bother to offer many things on their brand new models which their competitors offer, and which people would be willing to buy (stability control, heated & cooled seats, dimming exterior mirrors, a more powerful engine, navigation, and so forth).
The base price including MSRP of the 2002 ES300 (with no leather, smaller V6, 16 inch wheels) was $32,080.
The base price including MSRP of the 2005 ES330 is $32,675.
(Given the upgrades, I hardly feel $595 is significant. A 1.8% is hardly ahead of the very mild inflation the US has seen in three year's time.)
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One thing very interesting is that despite the new Avalon's significant power (280 hp and 260 foot pounds), and that it will lack a sixth ratio that the Five Hundred has, Toyota is estimating its MPG to be 22/30, from the leaked literature that has been posted on the Future Vehicles forum.
Even if it comes in at 20/28, I'd take it as a happier compromise than the Ford powertrain, in terms of power and MPG portfolio.
Personally, I do think it is a mis step for Toyota to not offer AWD, but perhaps this will be one point of differentiation for the Avalon and the lower strata Lexus models.
Given Toyota's most recent introductions, I think the line will be held on pricing for similarly equipped iterations of the new vehicle. An XL with moderate equipment for $27,000 seems very reasonable. Its just that there will be 2 new trim lines (Touring and Limited) and many new options that will likely push the car, IMO, to $38,000 fully loaded. And likely worth every penny. The vehicle's interior looks exquisite.
~alpha
I have almost overcome my resistance to the lack of power, and the tight leg/foot space (crosswise) of the Ford products. I just looked at a Montego Premier AWD in French Silk with the two tone pebble interior on Sunday, but couldn't drive it, since it was in the showroom. It is a very attractive car.
I have known that the new Avalon was coming and would probably be at the January auto shows, but did not expect it to be much more than different front, rear, and instrument panel designs on a current Camry. Instead, it is full of significant technologies and features, and has a downright beautiful interior. It will be out just when I am buying (January / February), and I will definitely not buy a Montego before driving the Avalon.
Glad Toyota decided to make side curtains and airbags standard on all trim levels. I would have at least thought Ford would have gone this route with the Montego.
~alpha
For instance, the 2002 Passat is know for its engine problems, including ignition coil failure and mass air flow sensor problems, and water pump failure.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?modelid=10116&- amp;src=vip#Engi
MSN gives the same overall reliablity rating for the 2002 Ford Taurus which is known for fuel pump problems and DPFE sensor failure.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reliability.aspx?modelid=10154
THEN there is the oil sludge problem.
here is an August 04 article from autoweek titled: Oil sludge woes plague VW; automaker to pay for engine repairs, extend warranties
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100717
First you had car companies requiring you to put PREMIUM gas in your family hauler. Now VW goes one step further and makes you use FULL SYENTHETIC oil. Any one know what a dealer charges for a Passat Oil Change?
ALL FORD CARS and TRUCKS (excepting maybe the T-Bird and the GT) are designed to use 87 octane gas. THIS includes the new Mustang GT!
FORDS also use a syenthetic BLEND motor oil (5w-20).
My dealership will change the oil and rotate the tires for under $40.00.
Anyway, if Ford has a problem, its that in the past, it let its reputation get tarnished and it has failed to get its quality message out.
FORD never gets the credit it deserves.
For instance, NOT only did FORD launch a brand new pick-up truck with redesigned engines and transmissions, it raised Initial Quality over the old model which was already highest in its class!
So I say if your idea of quality is paying $60.00 or more for an oil change then i say ENJOY.
Mark
I like a smoother grain over all like in my 02 Mazda Protege and 97 Escort wagon.
We just got in a Freestyle Limited Black with Black interior. This is a sharp car.
I still say that the value of the FIVE HUNDRED is greatest at the lower trim levels. An SEL FWD has a base sticker of $24,995.00. With dealer discount, you can still get Leather and a moon roof and be UNDER 25k
AND you know a rebate HAS to be in the future. I think a 2k rebate on these cars would totally seal the fate on the competition...
As for comparing the FIVE HUNDRED AWD to front or rear drive cars this really isn't fair.
Mark
More like seal the fate on drastically reduced profits for the vehicle line and its extensions, given that these brand new models will be around for at least 5 years largely unchanged save the new engine. Not to mention a negative impact on resale/perceived value.
The Five Hundred seems a very good car. But in 2004, all newly introduced cars are very good. IMO, Ford was very smart to offer AWD, as it can serve as a point of differentation, especially given the value equation. Still... the car car suffers from several "misses"... optional equipment, power, and style among them. But if carrying 8 golf bags is your dream....
For me, the Five Hundred shows that Ford is in the right direction, they just need to progress down the path. Hopefully that will occur with coming models such as the Fusion and Zephyr. The Mustang looks tremendous as well. But the Five Hundred class leading? No, not quite.
~alpha
I use standard 5W30 of any brand name that is on sale and buy OEM Motorcraft filters, usually less than $4.00 each(not from the dealer, of course, but from a discount auto parts store). I usually buy my oil with rebates for $.59 a quart or less. Total cost for changing my own oil is about $8 or less, and I have the convenience of scheduling it myself, right in my own driveway.
Since it is so cheap to do myself, I do change oil often, at about 3000 miles or so.
I agree, VW's are not a model of reliability, and they usually are overpriced as well, for what you get.
Incidently, the DPFE sensor is subject to an extended warranty on my Taurus and I have had no fuel pump problems, or for that matter, much of any other issues except some minor things that were covered under warranty. So, in 42K of miles to date, no non-routine maintenance costs at all.
Meanwhile, a couple of ouches:
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0411/24/G03-14718.htm
On the other hand, the CVT is NOT slow to shift when cold. It doesn't shift at all while in motion. Silly reviewers!
The other ouch: http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/23/pf/autos/500/
The best seating position for me - 6'1", 195, 34" inseam - is to lower the back / raise the front of the seat bottom cushion. It helps keep my right leg from hitting the overly wide and square Montego center console. However since Ford decided to leave out a telescoping steering column, it seems that position leaves my arms straighter than I like. I will need to drive one for a decent amount of time to see if I would be comfortable. What in the world was Ford thinking when they left out something as common as a telescoping steering column? Also, has anyone else noticed the bump in the floor to the left of the dead pedal. To me it is a nuisance - the lump needs to be removed and the dead pedal moved further left.
I also think that Ford will soon have $1,000 to $2,000 rebates on the cars by the beginning of 2005.
The dealer disconnect the battery of all vehicles in the showroom so the battery should not lost its life while customers are trying out all the power features. Not a wise thing, IMO. But anyway, let me go to the point.
Of course I also wanted to look at the big trunk, but it was closed. I tried to open it, but THE ONLY way to open the trunk is to push a power button on the dash, and the trunk pops open, Since the battery was shut off, I wasn't able to open the trunk.
I asked one of the salesman if he could open it for me, so he took the keys and started looking around to find out where to put the key into. Of course, he did not find any since there isn't any. He tried with the remote, but no battery no remote.
So he brought jumper cables, jump started the car, and then pushed the button on the remote, and voila, it finally opened up.
what do you think about that? It's a big mistake from Ford. Once you drain your battery, you can't open your trunk, until you jump start your 500. And most people carry their jumper cables in the trunk!
I wonder why Ford did it?
-----------------
About the design of the 500 - I think it's really nice and not bland. The only problem is it looks like the Passat, so what? It may be boring, but not bland! The Passat was always rated as one of the most beautiful sedans! The 500 is fur sure much more stylish, and more attractive than the Camry, Avalon or Accord! And almost as good as Nissan Altima!
Anyway, that's just opinions. To each his own. I myself think that the Chrysler 300 looks very funny - true, it's outstanding, different, but I wouldn't want to own such a car for years to come. Maybe a rental for a few days and that's it. The 500 looks much better, and have much more useful features and better visibility.
I suppose you could use your key to open the driver's door and crawl into the trunk after you've dropped the rear seatbacks There is that handy internal emergency release in the trunk.
The thinking behind this is sometimes car alarms can blare for hours and drain the battery, so they still try to make it difficult for someone to break into the vehicle. Which I say, if a theive is willing to wait that long to still the vehicle, just GO Ahead, your welcome to it, you earned it, VOILA!
When our C is unlocked, the trunk has a separate hand latch that opens the lid, not requiring the key at all. In addition, the valet key can be used to lock out the hand latch, for use in valet parking situations.
Thus, not ALL "high end" cars are doing away with separate, non-electronic, trunk access. As noted above, there can be a real Catch-22 problem here - most of the things I have to deal with a dead battery problem are in the trunk.
Best of luck!
~alpha
The only real advantage the Five Hundred / Montego has over the many other cars in the same price class is the big trunk, and that is the only reason I am still considering it.
The AWD option may be considered an advantage by some people who live in places with bad winter climates, but other cars offer it, and front or rear wheel drive with traction control or a limited slip differential, stability control, and good snow tires really make AWD unncessary.
I initially thought that AWD could also help in situations on dry or wet roads where the front wheels can not handle both steering and driving tasks, but I have owned two FWD cars and had no such problems. The first one I owned was turbo-charged and had a manual transmission, plus unequal length front driveshafts, so it exhibited strong torque steer, but I had no problems handling it, even thinking it was fun to drive ('84 Sunbird).