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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego



  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "500/Fusion. MUST loose it's triangular rear lights. Car is square on every angle, trainglular looks tastless and therefore cheap and idiotic. I apologize to this forum members for these harsh words but this is the way I see it."


    Wow, FSV- you like how the Accord looks, but think the Fusion is idiotic? What do you do for work? I'm ready to put you into a classification with that evaluation.....
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Volvo is profitable and doing well, but would Ford have been better off spending the money on improving the products it already had?
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Most of us here know far more about cars than the average car buyer. If the typical consumer will not take the time and make the effort to learn more, then the differentiated brand strategy on common platforms which GM, Ford, and everyone else is using makes sense. I just wish they would try selling all of the variations in one place at three or four scattered experimental dealerships.


    Sorry FSV, but I think that the tail lights, especially the LED units on the Montego, look really good. Having seen the European Fords on the roads there, I can see the common design trend.


    I wonder why Ford is not selling the Five Hundred and Freestyle in Europe? With the AWD and one of their diesel engines, they would be a nice step up from the Mondeo.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    I agree with you on the tail lights, they look good, and the design is pragmatic, the triangualr shape maximizes taillight are while minimizing its intrusion into the trunk opening, and it save on wiring the rear decklid for auxilliary tail lamps. That's the simple reason the triangular design, in various forms is so popualar.


    Why not Europe? Size. The cars are too long, too wide and too heavy, as I understand it that would put them into a hihger tax and insurance category in most European countries, where they'd co,mpete with the Audi A8 and Mercede S calss etc., and since the cars are aimed at a lower price point here it would mean redesigning and upgrading the interior, as well as developing or adapting new engines, e.g. a diesel, an I4 or I5 turbo, turbo 6 or V8, etc They might be able to find a market for them in the former Soviet republeics and Russia where there are different tax and insurance laws.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Yes, ned2, I think the Five Hundred and Freestyle would do well in Eastern (really central) Europe. I saw several Chrysler 300s at the dealership in Vilnius, Lithuania when we were there in August (my wife is Lithuanian).
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Just came from London. Was surprised to re-discover how socially divided their are. You might think this is stuff of the history books, but - no. Also, a sign of belonging to upper crust is speaking English without opening the mouth, preferably turning the head so, that your conversation partner doesn't see the face expression really. The point is - there are to many people in the world who need all these little and big signs of "Belonging" - titles, attention, servants, and Jaguars, Bentlies, Rolls_royces, etc. You can not sell Ford to them no matter how good it is. Most recent example of an attempt to do so is VW Phaeton - great car; they sell it now with a huge discount - even here in US no one buys it because it is a VW. And these car could easily wear Bentey badge, technically it is there...

    This explains brand strategy.


    nvbanker -- ??? I never said I like Accord. As the matter of fact I said in one of the forums, I feel like driving it in the wall. "What do you do for work? I'm ready to put you into a classification with that evaluation....." - I don't think I will say anything here, since I will not say anything you'll like.

    Again, I think, that square lights will make Montego look much more distinguished and sophisticated.


    500 in Eastern Europe. In Poland, Russia and some other countries they tax you on the size of the engine (allegedly the bigger the engine, the more gas it burns - should be really important in Russia, No. 1-2 oil producer in the world), something like $2.5 per cubic cm. Now, do the math... Therefore, 500, with it's balance of size/relatively low import taxes will be quite attractive. There is only one problem - it must overcome the very bad taste in the mouth left by Taurus imported by grey-market. Right add campaign, though, will take care of that, and if they gonna build it there, (meaning $2.5 X 3,000 gone), 500's chances will increase. Middle-class market (if we can define it as such) they have there is value-driven. It explains why they have to wait in Russia for more than 6 month for Focus (built locally), Corolla (Toyota closing on a place to build a factory). For whatever reason, Civic just doesn't sell well at all. And Subaru, being No 1. seller on huge territories, still doesn't have an assembly line - I can not explain this to myself... Size - Eastern Europe was built starting from 1945 with quite generous road dimensions in mind, though each of these countries has historical districts where two horses will go into a fist (whatever) fight for the right to pass, since backing up is not really an option. But there are not really too many places like these. Any of these countries could use a bigger car for their cabbies. In Hungary they drove me in something French with my head between my knees....
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    The main problem with the VW Phaeton, yes it is a nice car, is the Audi A8, an even better car made by the same parent company. The A8 is similarly priced, but lighter because it's aluminum, so it performs better, and gets better fuel economy. Why would a luxury car consumer pick the VW model?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The european Mondeo will be growing in size, and will adopt the C1 architecture that will also co-exsist with the next Volvo S60. This will allow the vehicle to attain large porportions (for it's trim exterior size) in a lighter platform (something the 500 can't do) and work perfectly for that market's need.


    Over in Europe, the Ford Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta are considered one of the benchmarks in their respected categories.


    But the market there is totally different from that of the U.S., than that of Australia or even South America. And before we all get in the topic of "Why not ship them here?"... again, different market, different demographics and needs. Even some asian manufacturer's have had to learn up until recently that what they build in the U.S. might have to stay here since it might not be accepted elsewhere, and vice-versa.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    This has been a great discussion. Before leaving this area, remember when the Escort was going to be Ford's world car? And then the Contour/Mondeo? Neither seemed to achieve the world car goals (as in the same car built world wide and sold world wide). Particularly in the case of the Escort, there really wasn't as much in common with the North American model and the European models as the physical appearance might suggest. And later, not even that was very much alike.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    "They're the most conservative buyers there are."


    (J. Mays, speaking of Ford Five Hundred customers)

  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    That really requires a comparison. I suspect I might be in Germany some time soon, I'll try to rent them both. Last time I was in there, I saw adds for Phaeton, and if my memory serves me right, the (rental) price was very low. I'll post my observations.

    Europe. In London I saw so many Grand Cherokies on the streets - and gas is 7.50 a gallon! With these prices i'd switch to a bycicle. Go figure the tastes abroad.

    My Russian friend just came over for a visit. Is considering to buy a car & ship over there. Size and convenience American cars offer for the price of 20-25G's is unbeatable, they love them. Problem is quality and service, even more than quality. Also, don't forget, Euro is expensive now, Dollar is - well, you all know. BTW, cops over there love Crown Vic and prefer it to Mercedes and others - what a surprise.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    Perhaps Ford had too many women on the design team. We stopped by Santa Margarita Ford today for their drawing to give away an '05 Mustang V6. Afterwards, they were busy with potential Mustang buyers, so we were able to be all by ourselves looking at a Five Hundred Limited. I tried moving the seat every which way, but two things were obvious:


    1) There is no escaping the unusually narrow footwells, which force me to sit with my legs closer together, like a woman. It is an uncomfortable position, and it also leaves no wiggle room to stay comfortable on drives over an hour long.


    2) At 6' 1" there is no position in which I can reach the steering wheel and not be looking out through the upper 1/4 of the windshield. - the seat just does not go down low enough, and the steering wheel does not telescope.


    Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to everyone. It has been enlightening being here and I am glad that some others are comfortable with the Five Hundred/ Montgego.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    And pardon me, but isn't claiming that men and women sit differently a sexist and ridiculous statement?


    I'm 5' 10", male and have plenty of room in my Five Hundred in any seat, from driver to left rear and anywhere in between. I have not noted in my nearly 50 years on this orb that women sit any differently in cars than men.


  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Dummies are used that mimick 90% percentile of the buying public. I believe the 5-10/170lbs is the most common dummy used. The narrow footwells have to do with the structural reinforcements integrated into the mid-section of the firewall.... In other words, the vehicle acheived 5Star crash ratings with no side airbags, there's a trade-off....this is it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    and not a single one of the dummies complained about the footwells, I might add...
  • I heard differently from some of the people on the Five Hundred program ANT14. Are you sure about that?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    That and checking emergency brake cables on AWD vehicles...


    What did you hear?
  • ktnrktnr Posts: 255
    Looking at the current Ford Falcon/Futura/Fairmont on Ford-Australia's web site, I was surprised at the range of high-tech engines available:


    Barra 182 - 4.0L, 24-valve, DOHC, in-line six with variable valve timing.


    Barra 220 - 5.4L, 24-valve, OHC, V-8 with variable valve timing


    Barra 240 - 4.0L, Turbo, 24-valve, DOHC, in-line six.


    Boss 260 - 5.4L, 32-valve, DOHC, V-8 with drive-by-wire throttle.


    I'm surprised that the two in-line six engines above aren't common in Ford's North American products.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    At one time it was...Long ago... So was the "Falcon's" platform...long ago...Ford AU has worked with it since then and updated it frequently...
  • My wife and I are tall (5'10" and 6'4" ). In a recent test drive of the five hundred, head room was the major problem. In the front passenger seat, even with no moonroof, our heads touched the roof with the seatback in an upright position. This position is more comfortable on long trips for us. An slight up-down seat adjustment would fix this problem.


    In the rear seats our heads grazed the roof.


    On the plus side, we both enjoyed the high seating

    and legroom in both the front and rear. We have tried every large sedan, crossover vehicle, and minivan available, and the AWD 500/montego came closest to meeting our needs. We did order one recently.
This discussion has been closed.