Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

explorerx4 · August 2005

if you own high power hot rods, why do you care if one of your other cars isn't as powerful as some others? so cal is a big market, but many of us have a different driving experience to deal with. when i'm driving in a bad snow storm, up and down some huge hill that was carved out by the pilgrims for horses, i love my 4wd, even it is paved now.

johnclineii · August 2005

The Lincoln version of the Ford Five Hundred is coming:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102949

ANT14 · August 2005

It'll be AWD... As usual, the media is trying to paint a Gloom-doom senario.

exalteddragon1 · August 2005

The media generally hate anything American. They cold not be happier today with the imports stealing sales, marketshare, and political influence from our own domestic automakers.

Ford needs to stop cutting its "salaried" positions and go after the Union. I DO NOT mean the union workers, i mean the actual union that is helping the media get what it wants... Dead US automakers.

The Five Hundred has gradually made its way into New York. While I see few around, there are more and more every day. There was a limited parked right next to a big toyota/honda/hundai dealership.

That says alot

nedc2 · August 2005

"It'll be AWD... As usual, the media is trying to paint a Gloom-doom senario. "

If gas prices get over $3/gal and stay there the folks in the Glass House may want to consider offering a 6 cyl. FWD version. If it's good enough for the Audi A8 in Europe, why wouldn't it be good enough for a Lincoln here.

ANT14 · August 2005

Many vehicles in Europe are GREAT overthere, but unfortunately consumer perceptions might not allow it. Hence, why the Audi as well as many other manufactuere's, have bodels there not to be introduced here....

Considering the higher cost of gas rising daily, don't be surprised if you see all these models that "Oh it's too small for american roads/standards" jump the pond.

mschmal · August 2005

I happen to agree with what Ford is doing right now.

This is a market economy and things are driven by supply and demand. Right now Ford has access capacity and extra factorys. This results in over production which results in high rebates which lowers profits.

Its better to sell fewer cars at a higher margin then to blow out cars the way GM does.

As for Firing the white collar workers? Hey it wasn't the union workers that screwed Ford up so bad now was it?

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that isn't directly involved in designing, building or distributing an automobile is potentially surplus.

The fat is being trimmed and in the long run, I think Ford will be stronger.

Mark

pat · August 2005

We're here to talk about the car itself. Thoughts about the philosophies and decisions of Ford as a manufacturer need to be pursued on our News & Views board.

bigjay · August 2005

Hmmmm.... That sounds interesting! Depending on when it comes out, I may be ready to make a change. That idea sounds very cool!

mschmal · August 2005

Has anyone seen any First Drive articles yet?

When is the embargo over?

Mark

fsmmcsi · August 2005

I am 6' 1", 191 Lbs., and have a 34" inseam and 34" sleeve length and wear 10.5D shoes. I really liked the size and look of the cars from the first time I saw them, so was very disappointed when I realized that I could not fit comfortably. I was willing to overlook the weak engine, and lack of other handy feature options which I wanted, but not the seating situation. The very first time I sat in one, I first adjusted the seat and then tried to pull the steering out and found that it does not move. I really tried to fit, sitting in and driving them many times.

The adjustable pedals do not help, as they are meant for short people. I kept them all of the way forward, the normal position for a car without that feature.

The big hump in the floor on the left side could be fixed with a block of wood.

A telescoping steering column is simply a must with the Five Hundred, and there is no reasonable explanation for the lack of one.

The overly wide console also must be redesigned. As wide and bulky as the console is, there is still just a silly joined cup holder which is no good with two mugs with handles. Actually, I would prefer that it have a 40-20-40 bench seat and column shifter option, as on the competing 2006 Impala.

barnstormer64 · August 2005

"A telescoping steering column is simply a must with the Five Hundred, and there is no reasonable explanation for the lack of one."

Frankly, I've never understood why ANYONE would want to sit CLOSER to the steering wheel.

First of all, it would be "intruding" in "my personal space" if it were any closer, and secondly, it would put the airbag too close to me.

People can't stand having their arms sticking forward to hold the steering wheel? Hmm, it's never bothered me, even on 13-hour drives, and I sit with the seat all the way back.

fsmmcsi · August 2005

The most comfortable position for a taller person is with the seat further back, but that results in my arms being straight out, or worse, yet, having to lean forward. If it fits you fine, but there are plenty of us who do not fit, and Ford effectively "gave us the finger" when they left out the telescoping steering column.

nedc2 · August 2005

The odd thing is that I'm about your size; I'm 6'2" , ~195 lbs. 34" inseam and 35" sleeve, size 12 C shoes, and I find the Five Hundred to have just about the most perfect "fit" of any car I've driven. It's as close to ergonomically perfect as can be. I've taken the car out on 4 or 5 drives and had my back and neck feeling bettwhen I arrived than when I started. The only criitcisms I have is that the seat could use a little more tilt, and that the footwells are a bit narrow, not a problem with the cars automatic, but if it were to be equipped with a manual, the clutch pedal would be too crowded. I don't have may arms fully extended whilst driving either, they are flexed a bit at the elbows with my hands resting right where they belong at the 9 &3 position, where the steering wheel's top spokes are.

barnstormer64 · August 2005

"The most comfortable position for a taller person is with the seat further back"

I know that, but I do sit with the seat as far back as possible. And I'm only 5'11"

"but that results in my arms being straight out, or worse, yet, having to lean forward."

I guess I'm either blessed with longer arms, or you're cursed with shorter arms, then. LOL

I mean, if you're several inches TALLER than I am, your arms should also be longer.

My arms are extended quite a bit. But it seems a small price to pay to keep the steering wheel and airbag away from my chest area.

Also, I don't wear 35" sleeves. So you arms ARE longer than mine. So it's hard for me to imagine that your arms are extended more than mine are.

I've driven cars with telescoping columns before, and it always felt very WEIRD having the steering wheel that close to me . . so I would just extendd it back to its farthest position.

barnstormer64 · August 2005

"I don't have may arms fully extended whilst driving either, they are flexed a bit at the elbows with my hands resting right where they belong at the 9 &3 position, where the steering wheel's top spokes are."

I get the impression that some people just don't like their arms in that position, and want a LOT more "flex". But it's the position I'm used to. While having the wheel closer would make the arms a bit less tired, I still can't stand the thought of being that close to the steering wheel and airbag. I know the column is built to collapse, and the airbag is supposed to be smart enough to take into account your position relative to it, but it still seems more dangerous to sit that close.

I thought the whole point of adjusting pedals was so that shorter people could put the seat further back and still reach the pedals. I never thought the idea of a telescoping column was so that you could put the wheel up halfway from your knees to your chest.

griffman12 · August 2005

Gradle
Thanks for the info, sounds like you really enjoy your new car. I have drove the 500 and it handles great. It seems that 8.5 sec to 60 has been rated as too slow, but it is just fine considering the gas mileage and size of the car.

I assume the mileage was with the air on as you live in Fl.

I hope you enjoy the 500 for many years to come.

Griffman12

fsmmcsi · August 2005

I like to sit with just a little flex in my arms, certainly not halfway between my knees and my chest. I don't like to sit with my legs close together, and I want to be able to change the position of my legs every now and then on longer trips.

At best, Ford blundered by making the narrow footwell (left hump and overly-wide console) and omitting the telescoping steering column. Maybe we need to blame the guy in Sweden who was mentioned in the article about a team of people from the USA visiting him and telling him that the cup holders in the initial design were too small (even those are still not good, as they are joined, leaving space fro just one mug with a handle).

The only reason I even bother to care is that I still think Ford is monitoring these discussions, and that the Five Hundred and Montego are excellent basic designs which need some simple revisions to the interior, more optional features, and a better engine to be outright excellent cars. In fact, with those changes, the Five Hundred / Montego / Freestyle would rank as one of the very best cars at any price.

gene_v · August 2005

I agree completely with the assessment about the narrow footwell and overly wide console. I too like to move my feet and legs around when driving long distances.
I really like the car and when it corrects these designs and put a 3.5 liter V6 in, I will buy.

ANT14 · August 2005

"The only reason I even bother to care is that I still think Ford is monitoring these discussions"

More than you know ...

johnclineii · August 2005

And even more than some of the watchers know...

joel_in_nola · August 2005

The only thing that I can say to putting the Lima 3.9L V8 from the LS in the Limited 500 is, that engine wouldn't work well for several reasons:

1) It is not designed or even easily adaptable to a transverse layout.
2) It is not in character with the 500 as it is a rather high-strung engine, requiring revs to make power.
3) Ford currently does not have a suitable tranny for that application. The Aisin 6 speed auto may have been able to handle the power, but, would not properly fit that engine if it could be mounted transversely. The CVT couldn't even hope to cope with that power. It would have been saddled with either a Jatco 5 speed unit that would still have durability issues, or a version of the 4 speed that sat next to the engine in the retired continental.

The best hope for the 500/Montego is the new 3.5L V6 with the new joint venture 6 speed auto which can be configured as FWD or AWD.

Personally, I hope that Ford steps up to the plate and either produces an SVT 500 with the 4.4L Yamaha 60 degree V8 attached to the JV 6 speed auto AWD, or does the same package, but in the Montego under a revived Marauder name. Personally, I think that since there will be a new continental and LS derived from the D3 platform used for the 500, and both will have or offer the V8, the SVT Ford makes more sense.

fsmmcsi · August 2005

Agreed - the SVT Ford would have the best chance of bringing back the types of people who once bought the SHO Tauruses. It would also compete with the Impala SS. I would not care if the engine was the 4.4 or the 4.6, but would prefer whichever is lighter and cheaper.

I also hope that Ford does not continue to starve the Five Hundred / Montego of features as part of some futile attempt to "force" potential buyers to consider a radically more expensive Lincoln.

exalteddragon1 · August 2005

seem as if they are doing that, since they added a navigation system to the cars as of 2006.

alman08 · August 2005

does anyone have a pic of the Five Hundred with the new grill used in the Fusion? thanks.

ANT14 · August 2005

Yes, I would love to see that new grill on the 500 as well....

jimlockey · August 2005

I have said all along the Ford has the best dealers in the United States and when you travel like I do this becomes important, but even with this I'm not buying a another Ford until they can compete with VW and their 05 Passat TDI. Both the sedan and the station wagon. "Notice I said diesel"

Having said that, I think the 500 is a good car, but not good enough. "Ford", I'm not a 0 to 60 nut. I only want to ne able to get on the expressway without getting run over. It is nice to be able to place my Passat TDI in cruise and it stay there without downshifting on hills. It takes the torque of a diesel to do that.

johnclineii · August 2005

Until such time as quality diesel fuel is readily available in the US, don't be a looking for diesel Ford cars. And reliability at Ford is much, much higher than at VW...

I should add that my CVT equipped AWD SEL Five Hundred has never once downshifted on a hill...and it certainly does not have a diesel engine...

gene_v · August 2005

"I should add that my CVT equipped AWD SEL Five Hundred has never once downshifted on a hill..."

LOL

PS: Do you think they will get it?

ANT14 · August 2005

Your CVT doesn't downshift? Oh my... could be defective... Ahhhhhh.....

Ford has a diesel team in place that's working on/studying, the feasability of diesel passenger cars. But unfortunately till cleaner diesel is introduced, and the infrastructure of having more gas stations offering it, it hampers the introduction of it.

johnclineii · August 2005

I just hope the CVT stays around. Just today I again passed the Batavia plant where the wonders are assembled...and I thought what a terrible shame it would be if Ford were to abandon CVTs...

pat · August 2005

This conversation is about the Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego, it is not about anything remotely related to political issues over the availability of fuel or the availability of diesel or Ford's willingness or not to go that route.

Please keep your comments related to the subject of the sedans in this topic. Thank you.

icdchess · August 2005

I am hoping to buy a 500 in April. I was wondering if anyone could list for me the known first year problems that the car has experienced since its inception and whether Ford has addressed and cured these isses.
Thanks, Steve
P.S. Am I the only one who sees a cross between a Toyota Avalon (last years model) and an Audi in the design of the 500?

gene_v · August 2005

gene_v · August 2005

ANT14 · August 2005

Yes, but more reliable than both...

The person who designed the previous generation Jetta, Passat, etc... now work's at Ford J.Mays is his name...

gened1 · September 2005

Is there a locking gas cap for the Ford 500?
If so where can I get one and what is the part number?
Thanks for any info.
Gene

donl1 · September 2005

Motorcraft FC-1000 Part# 4L5Z-9030-BA Cap

pirana · September 2005

I BOUGHT A 500 IN APRIL OF 05 SO FAR MY RADIO HAS DIED THEY HAVE PUT NEW BRAKES TURNED THE ROTORS AND A NEW STABELIZER BAR AND SO FAR I DONT HAVE 8000 MILES ON IT BUT STILL THINK ITS A GREAT CAR IM 5FT2 AND LIKE THE ADJUSTABLE PEDDLES ITS VERY COMFORTABLE MY NEPHEW IS 6FT 4 AND SAYS THE BACK SEAT IS VERY GOOD LOTS OF LEG ROOM UNDER GREAT CONDITIONS GAS MILAGE IS ABOUT 30 WITH CRUISE ON MOST OF MY DRIVING IS HIGHWAY MILES I LIVE IN NM AND LOTS OF MILES BETWEEN TOWNS I HAVE A 97 TAURUS THAT GETS BETTER MILAGE BUT IS GETTING OLD DONT THINK YOU WILL REGRET BUYING A 500

exalteddragon1 · September 2005

PLEASE DONT USE CAPS I DON'T NEED GLASSES YET THANK YOU

johnclineii · September 2005

and extended Five Hundred to be marketed as Lincoln:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107285

gene_v · September 2005

I am hoping that we do not have to trade up to the Lincoln to get options that we have all been talking about here. ie Telescoping steering wheel, more foot space,
narrower console. I am a big wide body and those things along with a 3.5 V6 are musts before I buy. And I don't want a Lincoln's price tag.

jdhebert23 · September 2005

I bought a 2001.5 Passat 1.8T in April of 2004, and since I didn't do any research on the reliability (this is my 2nd Passat...my first was a 1990), I have been completely blindsided with all the problems these cars are prone to. VWoA is not on the customers' side, and how I despise VW dealers! :mad: SO..with that said, I have been considering either the Montego or LS to replace my Passat in about a year (or less), before I start to really have problems with it. I haven't driven a Montego yet, and I rode in an LS the other day. I like the look and style of both cars, but I think the Montego is my favorite. I've never had to experience Mercury/Lincoln's service department, and I don't really know much about Ford's products. Any feedback on likes/dislikes of the Montego, as well as any maint would be greatly appreciated. I did sit inside of one, and it has a lot of very similar styling as my Passat, which I really like. I understand that the person who had something to do with the previous generation of VW's now works for Ford, so I hope he also incorporated some of the same feel on the road for this car as is in my Passat. Thank you.

exalteddragon1 · September 2005

Hey,

One of the things that is different from the 500 is that the montego is defenetly more "premium" in look and feel. I have seen a few montegoes and the few changes ford did (HID's and LED lamps) along with more spokes on the 18inch wheels help the car look premium. The two-tone interrior is really nice, and if you wait for the 2006 models, which come out soon, you can get a nav.

The center console is really well done, and the wood-looking trim i think can be had in different colors. The cool thing about this car is that it does not look so big on the outside, untill yo usit down inside. Especially in the back. If your used to driving a passat, meybe the slightly narrow foot well in the front won't bother you. This car really looks good.

I am pretty sure that in JD power ford has a better rating than VW, probably in both initial and long term quality. I cannot imagine a worse quality car than VW, meybe Mercedes, or Kia???

Ford is so big, in terms of service departments that really your service should depend on the department, does it have a good rep or not. Tell us were you live and meybe someone here knows of a good place to take your car. The plant these cars (500/montego) are made is world-class and the cars reflect it. Either way, though, if you do have a problem its nice to know the company you invested in can treat you well after the purchase.

And yes, if your spending 25-30K on a car, its an investment!

fsmmcsi · September 2005

As of September 17, Daimler-Chrysler has produced 217,957of the LX platform cars (Chrysler 300 / Dodge Charger / Dodge Magnum) while Ford had produced 183,874 of the D3 platform cars (Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego / Ford Freestyle). I don't see many of either accumulating on sales lots, so production and sales seem to follow closely. The supposedly stylish LX platform vehicles are no run away success compared to the supposedly bland D3 platform vehicles.

If Ford had introduced the D3 vehicles with a 3.5 liter V6 option and a telescoping steering column to better fit taller drivers, it seems obvious that D3 platform sales would have equalled or surpassed LX platform sales.

ANT14 · September 2005

That is correct, and last month and a few others, the 500 has sold more units over the 300 which run neck and neck. DCX has also stated that 25% of their vehicles will go to fleet sales, as oppose to Fords 15%. YET the media is billing the 300 as having great overall sales, yet the 500 is posting similar numbers which they use comments as "lackluster sales, slow moving sales, etc"...

You have a good eye to have caught that...

fsmmcsi · September 2005

Yes, I forgot to mention all of the LX cars in rental fleets. Still, the interior and exterior redesign (and I sure hope that the car does not loose anything it now has, such as the wide 22 cubic foot trunk) and the 3.5 V6 can't come soon enough.

exalteddragon1 · September 2005

change the headlights when they put in the new grille. I don't think this car would look as classy (or boring) if they put in the new grille and left everything else the same. Like the Fusion, the 500's lights should look as if they were designed to work with the new grille.

The 500 cars are better than the crysler LX platform and are more than a match for any other foreign car.

The big gain with the 500 is that finally an American automaker was able to to produce a space efficient four door. I cannot stress this enough. Most of the time our cars are (compared to toyota/honda/nissan) big on the outside and not so big on the inside. One has to look at the pontiac GP and now i am hearing even the Impala which i like but can't ignore in this sence.

Ford has done a superrior job giving a car that is not so big on the outside (think CV, GM, TC) to be very big on the inside. Very well done Ford.

nvbanker · September 2005

I'm glad to hear that. The 500 is so hard to spot, I think it's overlooked a lot out there. The designers made it practically invisible, and the 300 is mega-distinctive, ugly IMO, but distinctlve none the less.

The 500 may yet reach it's audience with that 3.0L engine in it, in light of gas concerns at this point. No hurry for the 3.5L unless it gets equal economy.

nvbanker · September 2005

I love J Mays' work.

Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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