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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The reference to IIHS is incorrect. Thanks for catching that. The Fusion/Milan haven't had crash test results from the IIHS.

    However, the Fusion/Milan did only get Four stars from the government...as compared to Five for the Five Hundred (and that's without side airbags).
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Well, here's another correction- how are you comparing the side impact score of the Montego to the Milan? The Milan hasnt been tested in the side impact by NHTSA.

    ~alpha
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Does anyone have any information on when the redesigned models will be shown? Perhaps at the Chicago or New York auto shows? Of course, the real question beyond that is when will they be available for purchase?
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    You post here frequently and are more knowledgable than most. Ford will to tell until close to the event in 2007. They still want to sell the current model :( .
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    It is a balancing act. They want to sell the curent version, but let's not ignore the other side of the scale - there are other buyers who will wait, instead of buying a vehicle from some other manufacturer, once they know what is coming from Ford.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    That is not the next Five Hundred or Montego. It's just some editor's pretty bad guess.

    Don't despair.
  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    it wouldn't be a bad idea.
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    I like the style of the current Five Hundred. I hope there is not a drstic change. I am waiting for the Duretec 35.
    I could use more footroom also. :)
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    It seems that most of us agree that the exterior of the Five Hundred & Montego need few, if any changes. A different grille will probably not bother any of us, and I think the Montego needs a better grille more than the Five Hundred. It also seems that most of us agree that the back end of both cars is just fine, and that Ford must avoid doing anything to make the trunk or trunk opening smaller.

    It also seems that most of us agree that the interior is where Ford really needs to concentrate their efforts - widen the foot and leg space for the driver, add a telescoping function to the steering column, add satellite radio as a factory option, and add other options and features which other brand flagship cars offer, but which are missing (e.g. dimming exterior mirrors, Bluetooth, rain-sensing wipers, and such which the Chrysler 300 and/or Buick Lucerne, amongst others, offer).

    Since it is now being reported (Detroit News) that the new 3.5 V6 and new Ford-Gm six speed automatic will initially be offered in the Zephyr (or MK-whatever) and not the Fusion and Milan, maybe Ford has come to their senses adn realized that the ehavier Five Hundred / Montego / Freestyle need it more than those smaller cars?
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    The Five Hundred can't compete with the Hyundai Azera.
    Unbelievable car loaded with standard features. Its what a flagship car should be. :sick: :sick:
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Let's see - The Hyundai does not have all wheel drive, does not have a huge trunk, does not have a Gold safety rating from the Insurance Institute For Highway Safety, and does have the reasale value of Hyundai. Yes, it has features the Five Hundred and Montego need to have available NOW (e.g. rain sensing wipers).
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    I thought I would get a rise. Just having fun. You miss a lot of things. Eight airbags are standard, as are electronic stability control, traction control, antilock brakes with electronic brake-force distribution and active front seat head restraints. A 16.6 cu ft trunk is not small. It has more headroom than a 500 40.2 vs 39.4. It has more legroom 43.7 vs 41.2. And it is not underpowered with a 3,8 liter cvvt 260 HP engine. And it is quiet inside.
    Then there is the interior - it beats the 500 hands down.
    Sound system is awesome.
    Just go look at it.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    I just lumped everything into one category - features. I have sat in Azeras at the car shows and felt the interior was cheap and flimsy. Given the price of the Five Hundred and Montego, Ford just can not afford to stay so far behind so many competitors when it comes to features. The Azera, Avalon, Chrysler 300, and even new Camry exceed it by a wide margin when it comes to features, and the 300 even also offers AWD. The Volvo S80 and Lincoln Mark S will probably have a long and even more impressive list of features, but those cars will sell in far smaller volumes than the Five Hundred and Montego could and should, so it seems that Ford has their priorities reversed.
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    :confuse: I agree about the features, both standard and optional. If anyone from Ford is watching, they probably won't care since I stayed in a Ford brand, but I didn't buy a newer LS than my late 99, 2000 model because instead of having more features in '05, they had fewer. I'm one of those "unusual" guys that looked at the '05 LS and said, "No rain sensing wipers?" I may as well buy something less expensive and get as moany or more features. Decided th AWD on my Freestyle was a good deal.
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    "Given the price of the Five Hundred and Montego, Ford just can not afford to stay so far behind so many competitors when it comes to features."

    Thats my point in posting about the Azera.

    I thought the interior was great. Some analysts have compared the fit and finish of the Azera with BMW series 3.

    One of the biggest criticisms about the Five Hundred on this thread is the drivers comfort. "The Ultimate Package ($2500) includes the sunroof and stereo plus power adjustable pedals and tilt-and-telescope steering wheel, memory for the driver's seat, mirrors, and steering column, rain-sensing wipers and power folding outside mirrors." Headroom and legroom exceed the Five Hundred.

    Then there is the power and noise issue that is brought up on this thread so much. The Azera is REALLY QUIET.

    I am not in the market for a car for two more years. I have had numerous Ford, Mercury and Lincoln products and currently have a Windstar. I wouuld like to continue wwith Ford but it is getting difficult to justify.

    The newer enhanced Five Hundred better be on the mark.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "I am not in the market for a car for two more years. I have had numerous Ford, Mercury and Lincoln products and currently have a Windstar. I would like to continue with Ford but it is getting difficult to justify."

    Apparently, you are not alone. The sales of Ford products, other than the Mustang and F150 are poor at best.

    The 500 was ordered for a "redesign" almost right after it hit the streets. The design of the 500 at best is boring, when compared to others. And of course, the CVT transmission was a poor idea from the start. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with them, but public acceptance has been poor. I drive an '05 Taurus (company car) that I picked up brand new-what a joke it is!
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    With the best dealerships in the business you would think Ford would work much harder to put out a better car. I'm not saying the 500 is all bad, but it would get a whole lot better fuel mileage if you added a diesel about the same size as the Passat TDI. The 500 is better than the highly touted Fusion. The 500 has a much better automatic transmission than the Fusion. The Jetta is a little smaller with the same transmission but with a diesel option. What I'm saying is Europe has much better cars that get much better mileage.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Europe also has widespread diesel availability, MUCH higher gas prices, and much cleaner diesel fuel that makes it easier to meet emissions standards. There are almost NO diesel cars for sale in the US right now. There is a reason.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    My wife picked up her 06 500 company car a few weeks ago. It replaced her 03 Taurus company car. I agree the Taurus is terrible. While it was reliable it was horrible to drive, just way to slow, felt cheap, rattled etc.

    The 500 is a nice car (makes a great company car anyway). It still lacks the refinement and pep of a v6 Accord or Camry, but the car itself seems nice and the overall interior and truck space is impressive.

    Some of the interior parts seem overly cheap, but overall it seems solid. My biggest complaint is with the Duratec 3.O. It's gutless at low rpm and thrashes crudely at high rpm. It has to be the worst DOHC v6 I've ever driven, Toyota and Nissan had smoother v6s 20 years ago. I do like the CVT, it allows for peppy performance once underway and you don't have to the gear hunting some Ford transmissions have been known for. My wife only keeps her company cars for 2 years or 50k miles, so the CVT should last that long I'd hope.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    What I'm saying is Europe has much better cars that get much better mileage.

    Having spent 10 days and 1000mls with a Toyota Avalon, a car about the size of Civic, powered by a 1.6 I4, it delivered mediocre 23MPG in combined driving. That's the same I get with my V6 sedans.

    Yet, the compact chugger cost over $20000 over there. Americans get much more of a car for this figure.

    Your statement above is quite inaccurate.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    A Toyota Avalan about the size of a Civic?

    Did I miss something?
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "My wife picked up her 06 500 company car a few weeks ago. It replaced her 03 Taurus company car. I agree the Taurus is terrible. While it was reliable it was horrible to drive, just way to slow, felt cheap, rattled etc."

    Yes, my company is replacing the Taurus with the 500 also. My Taurus is written for a two-year 75,000 mile lease, With the miles I am driving, it will come in right at that at the end of this year. The problem is if the 500 is the "Fleet Vehicle", I am not sure if this will help the resale value of those regular folks who buy one.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    People talk about Fleet Sales being bad. Its really a certain KIND of fleet sales that are bad, those are the short term leases to the daily rental companies.

    They show up at auction about 6 months later with between 15 to 20k miles on them and bring in about 50% of the new car window sticker.

    As a result they end up dragging down the residuals and sapping the pool of new car buyers. "Why by new when you can have a certified pre-owned for $$$$$ less?

    Now selling the 500 to large companies who are going to lease them for 3 or more years shouldn't really affect the residual. Ford just needs to be smart and make sure that a whole fleet doesn't show up at auction at the same time in 3 years.

    Mark.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    A Toyota Avalan about the size of a Civic?

    Oops, my bad. I meant a Toyota Avensis.

    Sorry.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "Now selling the 500 to large companies who are going to lease them for 3 or more years shouldn't really affect the residual. Ford just needs to be smart and make sure that a whole fleet doesn't show up at auction at the same time in 3 years."

    Mark, to the best of my knowledge most companies lease cars for two years for their sales people. Most sales people are going to drive AT LEAST 30K a year. A three year lease would be far more expensive. I would imagine at between 70,000 to 90,000 miles one could count on some repairs on cars that are driven hard in heavy traffic.

    And I don't really think that Ford has any control over when private (non-rental type) corporations replace their vehicles.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "Why by new when you can have a certified pre-owned for $$$$$ less?

    I'll tell you why. Because the darned car was a RENTAL. Have you SEEN how people drive these things?
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "I'll tell you why. Because the darned car was a RENTAL. Have you SEEN how people drive these things?"

    There is a dealership in California that sells only ex-rentals on their used car lot. These are mostly Chevrolets, Cadillacs, and Buicks. All have less than 30,000 miles on them. Also SUV such as Trail Blazers. Some PT Crusiers are starting to show up there as well. It's a small family - owned dealership...and they sell 600 used cars a month! There is very little downside to buying a "off rental" if you still have the factory warranty left. I have purchased three off rentals, all have provided good service.
  • mystiquemystique Member Posts: 24
    Anybody know when the facelifted five hundred will come out? I keep hearing spring 07' but that would make it an 08' or an 071/2' ALso any possible pics or rumors for what its gonna look like?
  • mikerochmikeroch Member Posts: 69
    Same questions from me....(although only regarding the Five Hundred, since we don't get the (any) Mercury in Canada).

    My wife and I have looked at alot of cars in different price ranges, and there is nothing better out there, in our opinion, for the money, with the SAFETY (Gold award from the IIHS) AND Features. We also happen to like the looks, especially in the Merlot colour (burgundy) with the pebble (tan) interior.

    The only thing we think needs improving is the engine. (Even the CVT seems ok, although in two different Limited AWD cars we drove, one had a very annoying loud noise on acceleration and the other was quiet - one of the reasons we are waiting for the improved version).

    Thanks!!
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    The only rumor about looks is that it will have a Fusion like front.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    It seems that the Lincoln MKS version of the cars will not be out until late 2008, so I wonder if the revised Five Hundred, Montego, and Freestyle will even make it out in 2007? Chrysler sales are faltering and Toyota and so forth are not sitting still, so it is very difficult to understand why Ford is not moving faster. Maybe they don't think the revisions will make a significant difference in sales?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Your timing is way off......

    That's all I can say about that...

    Expect the Five Hundred/Montego for MY 2008 to come out in early calendar year 2007, about a year from now.

    As for the MKS, my lips are sealed....
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    John, I hope they do come out in early 2007, or sooner. It seems as if the MKS introduction is slipping badly, so that may indicate that Ford is having problems funding the new and revised models.
  • The revised 500 is due one year from now...as an early 2008. There has already been a photo, but I cannot find it right now. Unfortunately, they are stuck with the same dumpy profile. The front end is a clone of the Fusion. In addition, there is a line of chrome running the length of the bottom of the side windows with the window frames being body colored. It looks better overall.

    Ford needs to offer the 3.5 in it, and start advertising it heavily. There is no reason that the similarly sized and similarly bland Impala should be selling three times as many units. Impala offers more engine choices, but not as much room and no AWD. How strange that Ford just lets Chevy have this market without a fight.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    Let’s see:
    1) Ford came up with the so-called innovation called Lincoln Zephyr – and a year after its’ release, it will get a re-design and a “new” 3.5L V6! Wow – does any one understand what Ford is doing?? They are desperately playing catch up! But the long awaited 3.5L v6 won’t save them, because Toyota and Nissan has run away with it a Long time ago!!!

    2) Zephyr is so pathetic – it is not even funny – can it compete with the likes of G35 or the IS350 or the TL – the answer is a solid NO. It is a piece of junk in comparison to those fine automobiles.

    3) The so called innovation is a Mazda 6, which by the way comes with better warranty and service than a mercury Milan or the Fusion. Plus it gets a 6 speed manumatic transmission and more HP, then the Fusion. SO WHY SHOULD ONE BUY A FUSION? The answer is: if you want lot’s of fake plastic chrome and piano-like interior – buy the Fusion.

    4) The ford Five hundred, hm. what a dud! Too slow, too boring and not well equipped for the competition. Possesses the reflexes of a cow and the AWD that is totally overrated BTW is just a sales pitch. Hyundai Azera is 10 times better than the 500, it has more power, more style and much ,much better interior. Sells for less (comparably equipped, if there is such a thing) and boasts a much better warranty. So why should one buy a 500? Why not buy a Charger SXT with a 3.5L 250HP V6, and smoke the 500 with a better looking, and better handling while selling for less? Safety ratings : the 500 has everyone beat, but what is exactly the difference between the safety of the 500 and the competition, is it really that much safer than the rest that it is in the class of it’s own? – NO it is NOT.

    Ford is going down, it is closing plants and closing dealerships, while Bill Ford is on TV, every 5 freaking min. Feeding us with his PR crap. I mean common ford. It’s time to fold’em. Ford F-150 and Mustang will not keep it afloat for long.
    Exploder is not selling at all, and the rest of the fleet is not even worth talking about.
    The 3.5L v6 is only about 3 years too late. Ford should have bought it from Nissan back in 2002, when the new Altima and Maxima came out with the 3.5 VQ – the best v6 ever!
  • Thank you for your post. You are obviously frustrated with Ford.

    Let's see:
    1) Of course they are trying to play catchup. No one is trying to catch them. Relax. Either they will improve or a lot of heads will roll.
    2)Zephyr isn't "junk" so much as outclassed by much of the competition. (It could be a great Mercury.) It is selling, so that will help Ford keep Lincoln afloat until better products come along.
    3) The Mazda6 that has more hp than the Fusion only comes with a 6 speed manual. The Fusion has more room, so some will choose it over the 6 for that reason alone.
    4) Yes, the 500 has been duddy so far, but whose yardstick determined the Azera is 10 times better? Four or five times better sounds better enough. ;) (And I still say the Impala's styling is at least as big a snoozer.)

    Ford is shrinking, but they are still making money. On the world stage, they have some bright spots (Land Rover, Volvo, Aston). Yes, I am mad at them too for screwing up their American line-up so badly, F150 and Mustang notwithstanding. But they did, so now they have to eat what they served.

    But they are not going away soon; there are better products in the pipeline. As to whether these will be competitive by the time they reach salesrooms is another story...but as I say, look across the street at the Chevy showroom where they are presently cleaning Ford's clock with two average products in the full-size and compact segments: the Impala and the Cobalt.

    Seriously, Ford has made it through even worse product line-ups in the past. However, I don't think Mercury is going to make it this time. It's toast. No Chrysler-style comeback for them. Back in the day, Mercury could sell 400,000 to 600,000 vehicles a year.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    You are right, I am frustrated with Ford - and it shows ;)
    I agree that Mercury is going to go.
    I have owned 1 Ford and 2 Mercury's - they were all POS.
    I will never give Ford a penny, until they prove to me that they are making great cars and that they really do care about the customer, no just another PR stunt from Bill.
    They promise innovation but deliver yesterday's news.
    Look at Toyota and Nissan for innovation.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    To me, the Five Hundred and Montego are classy and far nicer looking than the Impala with its Malibu front, drooping muffler(s) in back, and visible rear suspension bits identical to those I saw under mid-sized GM cars in the middle 1980s when that chasis was introduced. However, the Impala, as with the GM trucks, does have a much wider and better engine lineup than do the competing Ford vehicles. The rear and sides of the Five Hundred are just fine, except that the rear of the Montego is better. The Five Hundred grille looks better than the one on the Montego, but both will surely look much better with the new front ends. Plus, Ford is wise enough to offer a wagon version of the Five Hundred (the Freestyle), a vehicle with a wonderfully useful interior (and one which would have much better sales if it was called the Five Hundred wagon to get rid of the association with the Freestar).

    The Five Hundred / Montego do have many excellent features, such as the excellent AWD, excellent safety ratings, excellent trunk space, and excellent interior space. Unfortunately, the few things they lack have been holding them back - a fancier front end, better foot and leg space for the driver, a telescoping steering column, a smoother and quieter engine, and simple features such as Bluetooth, Satelite radio, dimming exterior mirrors, rain sensing wipers, and such. The revised versions should fix all of that, but why are they waiting so long?

    Think about this. Selling parts, and not just routine maintenance parts, for Toy-Awful-A vehicles is a big business, a direct conflict with their claims of being reliable. I won't ever touch one again after loosing over $8,000 having to sell a mal-designed Sienna after just 4,500 miles.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I always thought the same thing...that they should have called it the Ford 500 wagon, instead of Freestyle, but I guess the marketing guys at Ford thought the association to Freestar was better then "wagon," since no-one sells "wagons" anymore.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    The 500 does need a bigger engine and a few other modifications, but let's not sing the praises of the Charger. It is ugly, claustrophobic inside, has an unpleasant ride, somewhat clumsy handling, a sterile interior.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    yeah!, But it has a HEMI ;) :P
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Do we really think the revised Five Hundred/Montego will increase driver/front seat passenger footwell space? From what I am hearing, it will NOT.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    The easy way to increase footwell space is with a shaped pad under the carpet where the frame rail intersects the floor, allowing the rest for the driver's left foot to move to the left. I posted the idea of using a piece of wood to do this long ago on this forum.

    The problem is really foot and leg or knee space. The center console is just too wide, especially since the lack of a telescoping steering wheel forces drivers to sit further forward. Ford may not need to change the console if they add the telescoping steering column.
  • mystiquemystique Member Posts: 24
    If you manage do find that pic of the new one please remember to post it
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    Generally, I prefer a wagon (and a stick) but the 500's interior size and overall value is a big draw to me. But I can't get past it's looks. It does nothing for me, reminding me of a warmed over, 11/10 scale '98 Passat.

    If the 500 had the same styling as the Fusion I would probably buy it (assuming it drives well). I love the new Ford face.

    I flirted with a V6 Charger but transmission issues have me spooked.

    I'll probably wind up with a Mazda6 Wagon (V6/5spd) in the end though I'd prefer more interior room.
  • mikerochmikeroch Member Posts: 69
    Having compared the Five Hundred to other cars in different (and higher) price ranges, such as Avalon, Maxima, 5 series, A6 (even A8), etc... although the engine is a bit underpowered, when one considers the quality of the car, features, AWD, etc... and SAFETY, plus value for money, the Five Hundred seems a natural and great choice....

    We also like the looks inside and out.

    We'll probably wait for the '07/'08 in order to get the better engine, at which point the car will be "perfect".
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    "I'll probably wind up with a Mazda6 Wagon (V6/5spd) in the end though I'd prefer more interior room."

    The Ford Freestyle is bigger then the Mazda6 Wagon if you're looking for something with more room; however, if the exterior flashy looks are more important than interior space, it's probably not the vehicle for you.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    bobw,

    I sense a bit of sarcasm... :) what's wrong with having an opinion on styling?? :shades:

    I don't need "flashy," but my wife and I are both graphic designers, looks DO matter...we can't help it, it's how our brains are wired. :) The Freestyle and 500 just aren't compelling stylistically. But, the car is otherwise on target so we will drive it (probably on Sat.) and see if it sways us. The 500, not the Freestyle, we don't need or want a minivan (whether Ford calls it that or not. ;) )

    We want room, but we don't need a minivan, or anything gigantic. There are a lot of midsize choices out there. I also don't see any reason to spend 20 grand plus on something I don't find asthetically pleasing.
This discussion has been closed.