Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

bobw3 · February 2006

You know the 500 is longer than the Freestyle by an inch

evandro · February 2006

You know the 500 is longer than the Freestyle by an inch

But it's not pachydermically high.

bobw3 · February 2006

With the roof rack it's 8" higher and about 5" without the rack and that's at the rear of the Freestyle, but it's even lower by a few inches in the front roofline. And they're the exact same width. But it's all perception if you're only talking about a few inches.

Sporin · February 2006

We just don't like the way it looks, it's not about inches and measurements, it's about "looks" a purely subjective matter that EVERYONE takes into account. The Freestyle is no more in contention then any other brand's Imnotaminvans.

As I've said, I like the 500 on paper, it's just a bit too bland in my opinion. We're drviing it tomorrow and if we really like it, we'll wait a year for the restyled one...with the bigger engine being a bonus.

They should have made a proper Station Wagon version of the 500, call it the Ford 500: Country Squire.

Every manufacturer seems obsessed with turning SW's into psuedo-minivans and psuedo-SUV's... I like REAL station wagons. That is one reason the Mazda6 is getting such a strong look from us.. an actual sporty station wagon, with a MANUAL transmission, for a reasonable price!

I apologize to anyone who is feeling defensive about the 500, Freestyle & Montego. I am NOT ripping on the vehicle. Just expressing my subjective opinion on styling, nothing more. I've said over and over that it is a great car.

bobw3 · February 2006

No need to apologize for opinions! I think that the Freestyle looks more like a SUV Ford Explorer than minivan. If you had a Freestyle, Explorer & Odyssey/Sienna/etc. sitting next to each other, I think you'd also say that the Freestyle is more SUV looking than minivan looking. But it's true that these are not small, sporty sports-wagons, but that's a different market. I'm not so concerned with style; however, if they put wood panelling on the Freestyle I doubt if I would have bought it!

anhobbs · February 2006

Can you give me more info re the better engine you said is coming out in 07/08 ? What changes will be made ?
Thank you,

anhobbs · February 2006

When do thr revised versions come out and what changes will be made ?

gene_v · February 2006

Some info on the Duretec 35

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/100307.html

[Deleted User] · February 2006

Although the 3.0 liter has been panned--mostly because it is the only engine available in this large car--it is more than adequate for most people's purposes.

The 3.5 liter (250 hp, 240 torque) that is first being installed in Lincoln models (and the Ford Edge) will be made available in the 500 too. I have not seen a definite "when" yet, because Ford has to ramp up enough engine manufacturing to cover many different models.

gene_v · February 2006

Post #3082 is the most info on the revised version that I have seen.

Sporin · February 2006

Checked it out today, the Five Hundred is big, and a bargain, but I was so un-excited about it I didn't even test drive it.

Wide, nice materials, great features and great price. Great front leg room thanks to the high seats, but I wanted the seat to go back at least another inch... needs more belly room.

Great salesman, not pushy at all, understood that I was just not into it, and appreciated me not wasting his time going out on a test drive.

I may revisit it again after the redesign.

lateralg · February 2006

Driving it is believing it.

chuck1 · February 2006

It would be interesting to know how many are fleet sales. My company is replacing the Taurus with the 500 as the leases come due......

ANT14 · February 2006

500 Fleet sales are limited to only 15% of the overall total.

Impala (at 50%), G6 (30%), 300 (25%), Magnum (25%), are mainly the vehicles that are picking up the fleet sales Ford is no longer interested in entertaining.

[Deleted User] · February 2006

And that partially explains to me why the Impala is doing so incredibly well in sales numbers, even though there is nothing particularly remarkable about it. Thank you.

Ford continues to sell a huge volume of the lame duck Taurus for the same reason, I guess. Maybe the lower 500 volume is better. It will at least help resale values stay out of the toilet.

pnewby · February 2006

I agree, and as has been stated before, Fleet sales are not automatically bad. Other than rental companies, all others bring a reasonable profit, and are kept long term so they don't flood the market with nearly new cars. Only an over supply of nearly new cars is going to tank the resale. Company cars, service vehicles, govt. motor pool cars, tend to be either kept for a long while, or driven excessively, and that doesn't hurt resale.

ANT14 · February 2006

Chevy has the "Malibu Classic" (previous generation Malibu, sold exclusively as fleet sales. Ford took the same approach with the Taurus this year, allowing it to sell exclusively to the fleet market. In Chevy's case, the total is added to the regular Malibu sales, and in turn, hurting current Malibu resale as well.

GM is touting how well the Impala is selling, yet they fail to point out that 50% is fleet sales, which is being picked up from ex-Ford customers. As it stands, the Taurus was actually selling 50% to fleet as well, now the Impala is the fleet sales darling.

With the introduction of the 500, Ford capped it at 15%. This is allow because of the flexible manufacturing factory in Chicago which allows them to build either a 500/FS/Mtg. depending upon on the need. Whereas previously, the Taurus plants (Chicago and ATL) HAD to Taurus/Sable to keep the factories running, then saturated the market with fleet vehicles lowering the resale.

As it stands, the 500 enjoys a 48% depreciation rate after 3 years, a digit away from Camry/Accord for comparisons sake.

Some fleet sales are good in the sense it allows people to have exposure over the vehicle at rental car outlets. There have been many conquest sales due to that. But too much of it isn't a good thing either.

Ironically just a few days ago receiving some of this information I was informed that Consumer Reports (a publication the media in starting to harp on for inconsistant reporting) have chosen the Impala as a recommended vehicle. You would think resale value is something they would have taken into the equation.

barnstormer64 · February 2006

ronically just a few days ago receiving some of this information I was informed that Consumer Reports (a publication the media in starting to harp on for inconsistant reporting) have chosen the Impala as a recommended vehicle. You would think resale value is something they would have taken into the equation.

That's "Communist Reports" and there's NOTHING inconsistent about it. If it's American, it stinks. If it's Japanese, it's great. Total consistency. LOL

johnclineii · February 2006

Your statement is inconsistent. CR has just recommended the Impala. Last I checked, it isn't Japanese. . .

barnstormer64 · February 2006

Well, even Communist Reports can't bat 1.000 :P

b111111 · February 2006

How do you know the resale after 3 years for the 500? The car has only been around for 2 years.

ANT14 · February 2006

There's actually firms, like KellyBlueBook, Polk Automotive, AutoPacific, etc. where they take certain variables into considering like...Demand, factory output, allocation, days in market, etc. to predict it. If you scroll back maybe 1000-2000 posts you will see a few posts with related links, stating what the predicted resale value is according to those firms.

savetheland · February 2006

CR recommended Taurus also. Recomendation is based on reliability and driving characteristics, not resale value.

fsmmcsi · February 2006

I have read that production of the 2007 Five Hunderd, Montego, and Freestyle will begin in May of 2006. Why even bother with a 2007 model? Ford, if you are listening, please skip the 2007 model and get those 2008 models out sooner. You won't regret the added sales and profits!

gene_v · February 2006

Every time I read this I get extremely frustrated that the Five Hundred/Montego does not have it NOW! Sounds like an awesome engine.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=21984&make_id=trust

mschmal · February 2006

Did I say that?

fsmmcsi · February 2006

The 3.5 engine will probably be even better than they now claim. While the shape of the horsepower and torque curves is very important, all we have to work with now are the peak numbers. Even so, since the 3.0 in the Fusion, Zephyr, and Milan now produces 221 horsepower on regular, if the 3.5 is only just as efficient, it will produce 257, not the 250 horsepower Ford estimates. However, it seems almost impossible that such a long delayed new engine will not be much more efficient than the unit it replaces, so 270 horespower on regular seems entirely possible, even likely.

exalteddragon1 · February 2006

Absolutley.

Toyotas new engine family starts at 268 and so far goes to 305! Ford is comming out even later so "improved" or "good enough" will translate into incentives and no or just slow and limited sales gains.

The problem is that ford is late in the engine development (and patent) game. Therefore it does not have access to already developped VVT/Lift/VVT2 systems out there. GM was lucky b/c no one else is using OHV's so no one thought of putting the feature there. Since ford uses DOHC they have allot of competetors rushing to the patent office.

They developped VCT, which is basically undercooked VVT, but it boosts power non-the less. Ford needs to kick it in gear, but its a problem when you spend more money on health insurance and retirenment then R&D and other stuff.

I hope Ford or GM learn to combine WWT with DI (b/c Toyota already did) and patent new ways of doing so before they have nothing left.

Ford, BTW, is already expiriencing this problem with its hybrid technology, some of which it had to licence through toyota. Good, so now we need japanese permission before we make our SUV's. Whats next? (Sarcasm)

mschmal · February 2006

The similarities between the Escape Hybrid and the Prius Hybrid stem because both use the came eCVT from Aisen.

I understand that lack of respect for intellectual property is one area that no one out there can pick on Ford for.

jrdoa · February 2006

I live in Chicago and purchased '05 Montego Premier AWD back in July of '05. My gas mileage is absolutely horrible getting anywhere from 15-18 mpg, even on the highway i'm getting only close to 18. Do I have an issue with my vehicle that needs to be addressed?

johnclineii · February 2006

Yes, I'd say you do. I regularly get 28-31 mpg on the highway with my AWD Five Hundred SEL. About 22-23 city. More in the summer.

I'd definitely get that Montego looked at. Something isn't right.

bruneau1 · February 2006

How do you drive? If you are a very aggressive driver, the CVT will perform with a lot of rpms, and that means poor mileage, maybe poorer than with a conventional auto. Tire pressure? How much weight in the car?

mschmal · February 2006

When the EPA comes up with that number on the window sticker, it is assuming a 0 to 60 time of 20 seconds!!!!

Mark.

bruneau1 · March 2006

The EPA figures are not obtained by real driving. It is all done in a laboratory under strict conditions, and they don't use the air conditioner. Not realistic, of course, but at least all vehicles are tested under the same conditions. Real world mileage is all over the place, and in nearly all cases, lower than the EPA estimates, sometimes, dramatically so, even with Hondas and Toyotas, the darlings of the auto world.

slider7 · March 2006

TRUCKS AND FIVE HUNDREDS KEEP RIGHT

barnstormer64 · March 2006

I take it you've never actually driven one, eh? :P

bruneau1 · March 2006

I have a Freestyle with the same engine and transmission and it is an enthusiastic hill climber. Your comment is uninformed.

exalteddragon1 · March 2006

better at least match the toyota.

2zmax · March 2006

I think it depends what you compare it to:
if you compare a 500 to a semi, then it is pretty lively
however if you compare it to Azera, Avalon, Maxima, Altima 3.5SE, Accord V6 or Camry V6  it is a dog.
The Five hundred feels like the engine is going to blow up on ya, every time you push the gas pedal.
Never understood the principle of flooring it! I want my car to have smooth and
powerful engine, and I only need to tap on the accelerator to get it to GO.
What is the point of driving this clunker, if to get it to accelerate decently I need to floor it every time?

:sick:

barnstormer64 · March 2006

What is the point of driving this clunker, if to get it to accelerate decently I need to floor it every time?

What's the point of having horsepower you'll never use, if you never intend to floor your accelerator?

pnewby · March 2006

If it were really as bad as they pretend it is, it would be no threat to their world as seen thru oriental glasses. Only when there is something so good as to be a threat do they need to make false and misleading statements. Kinda like the majority of the "lemon alerts" seen on here. I've seen a few "real' problems from folks that stay around, but a bunch of "how terrible" reports that come from those that never show up again. But this forum, like all good american vehicle forums, seems to have several persistent crybabies that just have to tell us how terrible the product is. I just can't understand why they hang out here. I come here to learn and share. I don't go to the Toyada ( that was really the founders name wasn't it? The admiral) to bash it, and will only go there if I should become interested in one of them.

So like I say they must have driven them to see that they really are a threat, otherwise why waste the time?

[Deleted User] · March 2006

Maybe because they really like Fords, and are angry that the company didn't field a clean sheet product that wasn't more competitive right out of the box? Maybe its about an opportunity missed? Still holding a torch for Ford, but wishing it would hit a home run (like Mustang and the original Taurus) rather than a run to first base?

exalteddragon1 · March 2006

This is rediculous. Yes the engine is grossly underpowerred in todays market. Thats It. I am a die-hard buy American but not stupid. This is a great car, with the best interrior in its class (IMO), and the best trunk (Fact) but it needs AT LEAST 50 hp, and to compete favorably could use 100. How about FORD LEADING THE WAY.

It is a very good car, but if you like speed and easy passing power, forget it.

Personally, the way I drive (im 21) IT suits me just fine. I however, am not the ony one out there.

fsmmcsi · March 2006

The slow acceleration is one thing, but the noise the engine makes seems to be as much, or more, of a problem.

I very much like the exterior looks (except the bottom of the rear bumper on the Five Hundred and the grille on the Montego), the many handy storage spaces in the interior, the huge trunk, and the safety features, but the lack of a telescoping steering wheel and the noise kept me from buying one.

I sometimes do use full throttle for merging and passing, and in California freeway traffic, reserve power is a safety feature.

The new engine and transmission should end both problems, but Ford sure is taking a long time (about one full year from now) to have cars with the new parts on the lots.

2zmax · March 2006

The problem is exactly that  Ford is taking too long to bring the 3.5L V6 out to the market.
By that time, all of the competition will make another step forward and that will put Ford behind AGAIN. I am angry because I like the 500, I like the way it looks and rides, and I like the interior and space. But I could never live with this horrible noisy and grossly underpowered engine.
Comon people, can you really compare the 500 to the Maximas 3.5 VQ, or the Toyotas 3.5L VVTi ?
Everyone is acting like the Fords upcoming 3.5L V6 is some kind of Messiah, or a technological breakthrough of some sorts. The truth is that it is 4 years too late!!!
The 500 could have been a winner, if it came with the 270 HP, AWD from the get go.
It would have made waves just like the 300C did. People would have been lining up to get one.
Instead, it is just another AVERAGE large sedan, with below average performance and fuel economy.
I would probably forgive Ford for making the 500 so weak, if it got great fuel economy, but it is not even leading in the economy segment economy by any means.
The Impala LTZ gets the same mileage, with much better performance.
SHAME on Ford.

barnstormer64 · March 2006

Comon people, can you really compare the 500 to the Maximas 3.5 VQ, or the Toyotas 3.5L VVTi ?

What I worry about is simple: can I routinely get around those that I need/want to get around?

And the answer with the Freestyle and Five Hundred is a resounding: YES!

Would a more powerful engine be nice? Sure. But then again, I looked at the 300C and Magnum with the Hemi's in them, and ended up NOT choosing those, even though they are LOADED with power.

Power isn't everything . . . it's how you USE it (and how others don't use it).

Also, given how high these vehicles ride off the ground, having too much power (300 hp would probably qualify) could be downright DANGEROUS for most people if they actually tried to use it.

IF the rest of the world actually USED all that extra hp they had in their vehicles, then maybe I would feel compelled to buy a more powerful engine in order to keep up. The thing is, for the most part, they DON'T use it . . and thus I'm able to get around just fine with less hp . . because I'll use it when I need to.

[Deleted User] · March 2006

Your point is well-taken, Barnstormer, and would that more people had your attitude toward transportation and power efficiency.

However, Ford is in business to sell cars and trucks, and the marketplace seems to want things that you don't. The 300 offers 3 (or 4) engine choices, the Impala offers 3 engine choices, and some others that offer only one choice made it an engine with both more hp and good mileage.

The 500 should have had edgier styling for a clean sheet exercise, but it should also have offered an engine for those who don't think as you do. The 3.5 will keep it in the game, but Ford needs to keep working on improving those drivetrains both in terms of hp and mileage. The competition will not wait around. It is an amazement it has taken Ford so long to realize that stellar product is the key to leadership in their business.

2zmax · March 2006

gregg_vw - I couldn't agree with you more

barnstormer64 · March 2006

and the marketplace seems to want things that you don't. The 300 offers 3 (or 4) engine choices,

Then again, I don't see that many of the 300C's around. Usually the lesser engines.

The 500 should have had edgier styling for a clean sheet exercise

Maybe, maybe not. I've personally grown tired of the 300C styling already. It was neat for about a year max. And if you've driven one, you probably realize just how terrible the VIEW is out of one.

IMO, people SAY that they'd try a domestic again if the reliability/etc improved . . but few have actually SHOWN that to be true. They simply won't try them again, thinking this is still the late 70's and early 80's. And no amount of styling or more powerful engine is going to change that.

Just wait and see. Once the 3.5L come out and the 3.0L goes away, the "rallying cry" of those who refuse to try "American cars" will be that the 3.5L is untested.

2zmax · March 2006

That is not true!
Most Americans will prefer a car from the Big 2.5, if they actually made a desirable one.
The problem is that there are many offerings that are simple superior in almost every category including reliability to those of the GM and Ford.
Except for a new Mustang and maybe the explorer (subjective) Ford does not produce anything that can compete with the offerings from Hoyonda or Nissan.
Even Hyundai is offering better vehicles than Ford (Azera, Sonata)and since their reliability is as spotty as the one of Fords, they at least offer the best warranty around. What does Ford offer for a Focus with 12 major recalls? a 3/36 warranty. What a joke.

If Ford offered a 500 with 5/60 warranty, and a 250+ HP 3.5L V6 with the same price - I would buy one.
Sorry Ford, but until then, my money goes to Huyndai Azera or the new Camry.

Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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