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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    As soon as they clean up there Medical and Retirenmnt Liabilities they can replace it with Longer warrenties. Untill then, it seems to be just too costly.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    The problem is that there are many offerings that are simple superior in almost every category including reliability to those of the GM and Ford.

    The thing is, I didn't find any car (for the same price, in the same category) that was as desirable as the Ford Five Hundred or the Ford Freestyle.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    If you don't mind me asking what were the deciding factors for your car purchase?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Again, I hear you, barnstormer, that you prefer the 500 to the 300. However, the marketplace has said otherwise.

    It is also clear that people will buy American, if it is edgy and powerful and makes a statement (300). They will also buy it if it is middle of the road, but a good deal, with lots of options available (the Impala).

    The Five Hundred took styling inspiration from Audi and somehow managed to make it plain (even dumpy in some people's estimation). It is inoffensive...to the point that no one looks at it. The 300 has had more exposure--and greater sales--so the look is not going to stay fresh. Still, it looks expensive, regardless of whether or not it is your preference.

    I happen to think the 500 has enough hp for my needs too. After all, I have bought two Mazda Millenias over the years. 210 hp was near the head of the class in 1994 when the Millenia was introduced, but is pretty middling now. Still, the one I have yet today is quick enough for my needs. Maybe once or twice ever have I wanted more oomph in a situation.

    Maybe some of the problem is sound. I LIKE the sound the Millenia makes when I floor it. Perhaps Ford needs to tune the sound better so that using the max horses doesn't make a person cringe.

    The 500 is a good car, and obviously a good choice for you. I doubt it will ever disappoint you. Just the same, it is not destined to be everyone's cup of tea, when there are other looks and other drivetrains available in that price class.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    I have never floored my vehicle or felt the need to do so. The passing power at 4500 rpms (torque peak) is more than anyone ever needs. Sure the 500-Montego-Freestyle trio would benefit from a larger engine, but again your comments are over the top. Do you actually own one or merely repeating some things you have heard? We bought ours because we like the looks, it has superb entry-exist, rides well. is agile, has good steering and brakes, lots of room, plenty of power for our needs, the CVT is great, the price was good, comfortable, and good mileage. There is much more to a vehicle than pedal to the metal acceleration.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    I appreciate your feedback.
    I do not own one, but I've driven one on numerous occasions. And being some what of an aggressive driver I do regard extra power as a necessity.
    The 500, while a very nice car seemed too lazy for me.
    Passing power is NOT adequate like many of you indicate.
    What I am regarding as passing power is ability to pass a semi, on a two lane, doing 65 mph, in a few seconds ok!
    and Not the lazy lane changes on the interstate.
    When I need to make emergency lane change, that involves rapid acceleration, (downshift+gas in manual terms) I had to floor the damn thing to get it to respond. If you drive like a retired Florida resident then the 500 should suit you just fine I guess ;)
    as for me, I need the car to respond to my demands much quicker, like the Maxima or the G35 does very well.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    I don't drive like a retired Florida resident. Luckily, life is about choice and priorities. Ours are different and that is fine. Watch out for the nasty torque steer in the funny looking Maxima, its stiff and jiggly ride. As for the G35, a good car, but it costs thousands more. If it's better, it should be.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    I did own two Maximas, and even if the 2004 (funny looking - according to you) was a bit stiff, it still handled much better than the 500.
    As far as the torque steer is concerned - If people can't handle it- they shouldn't buy high powered FWD cars.
    I have no problem with mild torque steer, as I know how to handle it.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    If you don't mind me asking what were the deciding factors for your car purchase?

    I liked the fact that I was getting to use an engine that I *knew* (from personal experience in two Tauri) was reliable.

    I also liked the availble AWD and the CVT (standard on the Freestyle, optional with the Five Hundred though standard with the AWD).

    I liked the ride height (higher than a sedan, lower than a truck, and similar (but a bit lower) than a minivan). I literally don't feel like I'm stepping down or up into the vehicle, but just sliding in.

    I thought the roominess was as good (or better) than other competing vehicles in the price range.

    I also liked the fact that the two vehicles behave almost identically. Like a good sedan and its wagon counterpart should. (I came from a Taurus and a Taurus wagon).

    The 300C / Magnum had too restricted a view for my tastes.

    Given a choice of a 3.5L or the 3.0L, I probably would've opted for a more powerful engine . . depending on how much extra the price was. Then again, I remembered that the 3.8L V6 in the pre-'96 Taurus (the more powerful engine compared to the Vulcan 3.0L V-6) was being blamed for a higher problem rate in those vehicles (more engine heat affecting other components, as I recall). So, a more powerful engine isn't always without possible unknown issues.

    Basically, I just wanted a decent wagon (I initially got the Freestyle) to replace my aging '96 Taurus wagon. I looked at other similar vehicles (Acura MDX, Lexus RX330, Toyota Highlander, etc) and they didn't seem to have anything that made them worth the higher price to me.

    After getting the Freestyle, my Taurus sedan became harder and harder for me to drive (since I really preferred the higher seat height of the Freestyle). So, when Ford did their employee pricing later in 2005, I decided to go ahead and get a matching Five Hundred (other than color).

    Before that time, I'd never owned two new vehicles at once, nor had I ever sold a car that was less than 4 years old (and not already paid off). That's how good the Freestyle was . . . . it made me willing to sell a car (the '02 Taurus sedan) before its time was up in order to get the Five Hundred.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    When I need to make emergency lane change, that involves rapid acceleration, (downshift+gas in manual terms) I had to floor the damn thing to get it to respond. If you drive like a retired Florida resident then the 500 should suit you just fine I guess

    That's the reason the pedal goes all the way to the metal. :D

    I drive nothing like a retired Florida resident. I'd guess that there's substantially less than 5% of drivers who would be considered more aggressive than I am . . and I'm more than willing to let them pass me and be on my way. Trying to "compete" with people like that is suicide anyway, regardless of how powerful your vehicle is.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Watch out for the nasty torque steer in the funny looking Maxima, its stiff and jiggly ride.

    That's one thing I like about the 500/Freestyle and the CVT option (I don't know if the 6-speed is the same way or not).

    It does *not* seem to have much torque steer at all. I've been attributing that to the CVT, though perhaps the 6-speed also prevents it.

    With the Taurus, the downshifts could literally rip the steering wheel out of your hands if you weren't careful.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    The reason why I would choose a 500 would be for its' size, available AWD and price (though it gets pretty pricey with the options).
    However the new Azera just won my heart.
    I love the way it looks.
    And from what everyone is saying it seems to be an awesome car.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    The Azera is a very nice car with lots of stuff and a warranty that you can't argue with. But when I sat in the driver's seat and then the passenger's, the spell was broken. Not comfortable, and that gets on one's nerves every time you drive
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    I didn't mention the size . . but obviously that was a consideration. It cerainly had the largest trunk of any vehicle in its class.

    As far as price with the options . . the other vehicles got more pricey with them, too.

    I think I was looking at an out-the-door price of the Freestyle (fully loaded) of 32k . . vs more like 37k for the Magnum. But then it had the Hemi, and also the Navigation system, as I recall.

    With the hemi, the 300C/Magnum actually can become TOO sensitive in the throttle, IMO. My brother commented on this with regards to one of his new vehicles (Accord, I think). While he likes the pep, he says it's too hard to precisely control the throttle response.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "My brother commented on this with regards to one of his new vehicles (Accord, I think). While he likes the pep, he says it's too hard to precisely control the throttle response."

    Thats a manufacturer's trick for people to perceive the vehicle is quick/fast, is by programming the accelerator to be sensitive at it's initial touch. From my experience, the Nissan Altima 2.5S ia the worst offended. Everytime I touched it, I kept spinning the front wheels. Took me a few days to teach myself to let it roll at first, then touch it to avoid the wheelspin.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Thats a manufacturer's trick for people to perceive the vehicle is quick/fast

    Quite the opposite of how my Five Hundred / Freestyle (both with CVT) are programmed.

    I think this is a large part of the reason people perceive the vehicles to be "underpowered".

    I have to keep pushing more and more on the accelerator to keep the rpm's at say 3,000 rpm . . which will result in a very nice acceleration.

    If one starts with 3,000 rpm, though, and simply maintains the amount of "initial push" on the accelerator, the car will continue to accelerate (at a decelerating rate) while the rpm's start dropping back to 2,000 (or even below), until eventually levelling off at a constant speed.

    I've found that "chasing the rpm meter" is the way to get really good acceleration (and not so good gas mileage). Try to keep it at 3,000 (or even up to 4,000) until you reach cruising speed, and you won't feel underpowered at all.
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    Oh contraire! I found the Azera to be much more comfortable than the Five Hundred. About an inch more leg room and definitely more foot space. The console of the Five Hundred is much too wide. The Five Hundred is big everwhere except for the driver.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yes, my 88 Olds 88 was that way. It felt really peppy, due to a tremendous tip-in, but got tired at nearly any speed once rolling. But it felt powerful because of that tip-in effect.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    2zmax wrote: "Even Hyundai is offering better vehicles than Ford (Azera, Sonata)and since their reliability is as spotty as the one of Fords, they at least offer the best warranty around. What does Ford offer for a Focus with 12 major recalls? a 3/36 warranty. What a joke."

    I would have thought the same regarding the phrase "Even Hyundai . . ." until I bought one. I've been buying new cars since 1968 from Domestics (Buick, Dodge, Ford, Olds), European (SAAB, Triumph, Volvo), Japanese (Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota), and now Korean (Hyundai). Although my 2006 Elantra GLS is only a few months old, this is the "only" new car I've owned that has been perfect out-of-the-box. Absolutely no defects - aesthetically or mechanically. Everything simply works!

    Only time will tell on the reliability, but I've looked this vehicle over from stem to stern and everything is really well executed. My wife and I originally were planning to buy a new Ford Five Hundred or Sonata, but decided that we'd really prefer not to finance a car at the moment, hence we went downsize and downmarket, and paid cash. For a delivered price of $13,700, including TTL, we couldn't be happier with this car. And, most items that Detroit considers options (A/C, cruise control, keyless entry, power windows/locks, alarm, AM/FM/CD, etc.) are standard equipment. The powertrain is a 2 liter DOHC 16-valve engine with VVT cams, cast iron block and aluminum head, and a 4-speed automatic.

    Since we normally keep a car for at least 10 years, depreciation is rather moot negative. And, with a 5 year/60K limited warranty, a 10 year/100K powertrain warranty and a 5 year/unlimited mileage free roadside assistance, we're willing to take a "gamble" on Hyundai. As one who lived through the time when Japanese cars first hit these shores, it's my opinion that Hyundai may be mirroring the Japanese success story.

    It's only a matter of time when Hyundai will no longer be the brunt of jokes, just as the Japanese cars were when they first appeared here in the USA.
  • victorydavevictorydave Member Posts: 8
    Hyundai is in no way as good as a Ford, The warranty is a joke (just read the fine print). A friends hyundai has cost her almost 2,000 bucks in 66 k miles, as she said "you wouldn't believe whatz not covered and how easy the warranty is voided or doesn't cover that"! OH! by the by the Hyundai steeler in Ann Arbor Michigan is full of hacks!
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    I think it depends what you compare it to:
    if you compare a 500 to a semi, then it is pretty lively
    however if you compare it to Azera, Avalon, Maxima, Altima 3.5SE, Accord V6 or Camry V6 – it is a dog.
    The Five hundred feels like the engine is going to blow up on ya, every time you push the gas pedal.
    Never understood the principle of flooring it! I want my car to have smooth and
    powerful engine, and I only need to tap on the accelerator to get it to “GO”.
    What is the point of driving this clunker, if to get it to accelerate decently I need to floor it every time?

    Fortunately for this poster, in the interest of Consumer Choice, Ford does build a car with on demand torque at any RPM. Its called the Ford Crown Victory and is now playing with a bubble gum machine at a speed trap near you.

    Mark.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    In 2005 Chrysler sold just over 144,000 Chrysler 300s.

    Ford sould about 108,000 Five Hundreds and about 27,000 Milans.

    Fords target was 125,000 combined which Ford clearly beat.

    Just because you wouldn't buy a specific car, doesn't mean that everone else won't.

    Ford sold over 901,000 F-Series. Ram P/U sales were 400,000.

    NOW that is a difference.

    Mark.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    "Crown Victory and is now playing with a bubble gum machine at a speed trap near you. "

    He-He-He,
    As long as his name is not Ivory Webb, I'll be Ok ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, the F150 is a great success story. It was completely revamped in 2004 and continues to lead the field. However, Ford's overall truck sales are down, even with this mammoth success.

    In 2005 Chrysler sold 189,500 300s and Chargers. Ford sold 135,000 500s and Montegos. Not a huge difference, but still Chrysler moved nearly 55,000 more units where traditionally Ford products had been the big sellers.

    Also, Chrysler's transaction price per unit was higher. They discounted their cars less, and of course with several larger engine choices, the Chrysler products should command more money, regardless.

    And the big difference was in bottom line: Chrysler made money and Ford lost money (on their US operations). Ford cannot sustain profits alone on a couple successes like the Mustang and F150. Too many other lines that absolutely used to be best sellers are either tanking or shrinking (Ranger, Explorer, Expedition, Focus). The 500 has received a lukewarm response for a mainstream Ford. The Freestyle crossover could not even manage to outsell the Freestar last year...and the Freestar is not doing at all well against the competition.

    Sure Ford's sales projections are conservative. It has been their policy. But they lost the sense of what made the original Taurus such a hit. Belatedly in 1996, they finally updated it, apparently thinking weird was what made the original one a success. Realizing that was a goof, they added anonymity to it in 2000. Then, in a clean sheet design, they took the attractive 500 concept drawings and rendered the car as plain, innocuous and dowdy as an Audi copy could possibly be.

    The 500 is a good car, but with its lack of styling and lack of engine choices, it cannot reach the volume Ford could really use. If it had been styled more like the 427 concept, they would have had a winner, even with late introduction of the 3.5. But if wishes were fishes, we'd all be frying, or something like that. ;)
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    In 2005 Chrysler sold just over 144,000 Chrysler 300s.

    Thanks for the numbers. And I wnoder how many of those 300's were the Hemi's, 3.5L's, and the smaller engine?

    I was tempted to post that I knew the 500 had sold more than the Hemi300, and I was fairly sure it sold about as many as with the Hemi and 3.5L combined. But, I just wasn't sure of the numbers.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The car styled more like the 427 concept is the Fusion, available right now at any Ford dealer near you. Actually, Fusion is likely closer to being the Taurus replacement in interior spaciousness and trunk size. It is almost dead on in length dimensions with the original Taurus. The original Taurus grew a few inches in length from its initial generation, and now Fusion shrinks it back a bit dimensionally to go head on with the Camcords.
    So, if 500 is too boring for you the Fusion is your better choice, along with a few less pounds of weight to haul around and a few more horses due to the VVT application of the 3.0 Duratech.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    victorydave wrote: "Hyundai is in no way as good as a Ford, The warranty is a joke (just read the fine print). A friends hyundai has cost her almost 2,000 bucks in 66 k miles, as she said "you wouldn't believe whatz not covered and how easy the warranty is voided or doesn't cover that"! OH! by the by the Hyundai steeler in Ann Arbor Michigan is full of hacks!"

    You may be right - or wrong - as for me, it is far too early to tell. All I can say is that the dealer is excellent, both in the sales and service departments, and they are very pro-customer, as is Hyundai. I've received more post-sale contact from the dealer and Hyundai, than I ever did with any other new car purchase. They want to ensure that I'm satisfied with the purchase and car.

    I've read the fine print in the warranty, and it's no different than most warranties. They expect you to adhere to the maintenance schedules, but they allow you to perform normal routine maintenance yourself, as long as you provide receipts for parts, supplies, etc. There is an extensive section in the Owner's Manual on "Do-It-Yourself" maintenance. And, their website allows registerd owners full access to all corporate TSB's, shop, parts, and technical manuals. You can even place an online order through Hyundai's website for any part or accessory for delivery to your local dealer.

    Actually, I find their warranty written in plain English and very easy to understand, plus they are very specific at what they cover and don't cover. I could care less if they don't cover windshield wiper blades after 12 months.

    Our local Ford dealer does everything it can to "not" cover items under warranty. I initially wanted to buy a Ford product (Five Hundred SEL), but the pushy salespeople and their terrible service department forced me elsewhere.

    From the latest IIHS tests, its looks like the Fusion is not as good as it should be in terms of "standard" safety features. Granted, the Five Hundred is a very safety-oriented vehicle, simply because it was based on a Volvo platform. The Fusion, on the other hand, is not one of Ford's better ideas . . . Most people here in the USA "want" to buy from the Big 3, but they don't offer what I want, or need, at a price I can afford. I fully realize this is a Ford Five Hundred forum, and I think it's a nice car. I just wish the dealer network was more customer-oriented.

    I will check back with you in a few years on this car's reliability, but from what my experience tells me based upon its initial quality, I'm not going to worry.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    I've received more post-sale contact from the dealer and Hyundai, than I ever did with any other new car purchase.

    I get enough from Ford as it is. If Hyundai sends out even MORE, add that to the list of why I wouldn't want to buy one. ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, the Fusion has some 427 cues, but very careful ones. It is edgier than the Five Hundred, but hardly a standout in the mid-size field.

    The 500 is more like the length of the final Taurus, although many (not all) of its interior dimensions are larger. The Fusion is actually a few inches longer than the original Taurus. (Ford is still going for too much front overhang proportional to wheelbase in its designs, IMHO, like VW is doing with the Passat.)

    Ford is commendably trying to replace the Taurus with several choices to better meet a wider set of preferences in the market. The 500 meets the needs of some people, but would have done even better by adding some intriguing style. The Fusion is less anonymous (mostly due to the new Ford face), but it doesn't have initial standout to the degree that some other fresh designs have fielded.

    Does Ford need more wow factor? Not necessarily. Although the 2007 Camry is starting to show some style, the car has been a style bore since it was first conceived. However, Ford's successes have often hinged on style, so it cannot hurt, as long as it doesn't look weird like the 1996 Taurus guppy.

    For myself, I hope they turn up the volume on the next iteration of the Zephyr/MTZ (circa 2010 maybe?). Then that is what I would buy.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Fusion at 190.2" long is 1" longer than 2006 Camry, and 0.9" shorter than 2006 Accord, and wheelbase of all three is within a range of 0.8" with Fusion in the middle. Furthermore, headroom front and rear and legroom front and rear are all nearly identical with Fusion falling smack dab in between Camry and Accord, while Fusion trunk room at 15.8 cubic feet beats Accord at 14.0 and is less than Camry at 16.7 cubic feet.

    If Fusion has more front overhang than either Camry or Accord, it does not seem to be hurting either passenger space or trunk space. It appears to me space efficiency is right on par with it's major competitors. And it is not because of height either. Fusion is 57.2" tall, Accord 57.3" and Camry 58.7".
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    Why get Fusion, if you can get the Mazda 6?
    It has better warranty and reliability. In addition it is much more fun to drive and is better looking (IMO)
    So what gives? Fusion is a mid size sedan, the 500 is a full size, so comparing to two is not appropriate.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I don't recall saying that Camry and Accord don't have as much front overhang as Fusion. The 2007 Camry has commendably increased the wheelbase a couple inches while keeping the length the same.

    The 300 is about 3 inches shorter than the 500, with a wheelbase 8 inches longer. Strangely, the 500 initially looks like the shorter car. Granted being rear drive, it is easier to get the proportions the 300 did. Same with the Cadillac STS...it is 3 to 4 inches shorter than the 500. The 500 does have a huge trunk. Many of us, however, don't need quite that much booty back there.

    Front drive doesn't dictate beaky front ends. The engine could be set back further (Acura used to do that) for better balance (less weight percentage over the front tires). More to the point, some companies (most Japanese included) install air space in front for styling purposes--apparently not noticing that abbreviated front overhang is a stylistic point selling very well on those cars offering it.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    Well, all rears and legs are different. The Azera's driver's seat has a limited range of adjustment and was not very good for me. Of course, I has just driven a v8 Lucerne which has terrific seats. Then i checked out the passenger seat in the Azera- no height or tilt adjustment and very flatly oriented. No way would I want to travel in that seat. I was very happy to get back into my freestyle which has the same seats as the 500 only they are even higher.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    New Fords only exclude the following items from Warranty
    WHAT IS NOT COVERED?
    Damage Caused By:
    • accidents, collision or objects striking the vehicle (including driving
    through a car wash)
    • theft, vandalism, or riot
    • fire or explosion
    • using contaminated or improper fuel/fluids
    • customer-applied chemicals or accidental spills
    • driving through water deep enough to cause water to be ingested into
    the engine
    • misuse of the vehicle, such a driving over curbs, overloading, racing or
    using the vehicle as a stationary power source

    This is what is said about maintenance:
    MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE PROPERLY
    Your glove compartment contains an Owner Guide and a Scheduled
    Maintenance Guide which indicate the scheduled maintenance required
    for your vehicle. Proper maintenance guards against major repair expenses
    resulting from neglect or inadequate maintenance, may help increase the
    value you receive when you sell or trade your vehicle, and is important in
    allowing your vehicle to comply with applicable emissions standards.
    It is your responsibility to make sure that all of the scheduled maintenance
    is performed and that the materials used meet Ford engineering specifications.
    Failure to perform scheduled maintenance as specified in the Service
    Guide will invalidate warranty coverage on parts affected by the lack of
    maintenance. Make sure that receipts for completed maintenance work are
    retained with the vehicle and confirmation of maintenance work is always
    entered in your Scheduled Maintenance Guide.

    Notice that failure to maintain only invalidates coverage for effected parts. Not doing an oil change will not invalidate converage if your transmission blows.

    https://web.msslib.dealerconnection.com/RightSite/getcontent/myfile.pdf?DMW_OBJE- - CTID=09000c5880520d32

    Mark
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    I love the fact that the Five hundred has a seat with hip height 4 inches higher than most cars. I like the looks of the car, the size of the car, back seat leg room and trunk size.
    Here is the problem. You say all rears and legs are different. I have the build of a middle linebacker.
    Five feet ten, 260 pounds, a 50 inch chest and 46 inch waiste. I need a telescoping steering wheel, adjustable pedals and A SMALLER CONSOLE. I feel stuffed in the Five Hundred. Ford IMHO made a great car with great size everwhere but the drivers seat. Peace! :)
  • b111111b111111 Member Posts: 2
    I agree with you. The Five Hundred has many positives, but ironically - for all the talk about how roomy the car is - it feels small when I sit in the driver's seat. The car I test drove did have adjustable pedals, which helped but my feet seemed cramped and it seemed like there wasn't enough room for the driver.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    I'm not exactly tiny (5'11", 210 lb, 38 waist), but I find the 500/Freestyle to have PLENTY of room for the driver.
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    But some of ya need to get back in shape!
    5' 10" @ 260 lbs with a 46" waist, 5'11" 210 with 38" waist ??? Hit the gym guys.
    You need to be at 180, with 33" waist and 46 " chest.
    maybe then you wont complain about the accomodation on the driver's side of the 500 ;)
    No harm intended, if I hurt your feelings, I'll call an ambulance for ya! ;)
    Just look at it this way: if Dr. Phill told you that on national TV, you'd probably agree and thank him as well.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    If Dr. Phil said one word to me on national TV, I'd punch him out. :P

    Besides, he's a bit FAT to be saying anything about that, IMO. LOL

    And remember . . I was NOT complaining about the room in the Freestyle's driver seat. So I guess I can gain 50 more pounds and 8 more inches before I have to worry about it. :surprise:

    Also, it's more like 205 lbs and a 37" waist . . so I was being a bit generous. ;)
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    LOL,
    I'd punch him out as well, he is so annoying and a big phony. :P
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    the Ford Five Hundred has a wide center console. Part of the reason is the need provide sufficient structure to handle the forces generated in the crash test. If the 500 had not done as well as it did in the crash test, a different group of people would be on here gripping.

    The solution for those of you who need greater width: First try the Freestyle. I have had customers who complained about lack of width in the 500 tell me the Freestyle was acceptable. I have no idea why.

    Still not enough room. Try the Crown Vic. This is probably one of the last cars you can buy in this country that offers an avaiable BENCH SEAT(Crown vics body on frame construction allows great crash performance without that hudge center console).

    Mark.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    ANT14 - yes, the "jumpy" initial throttle response is also very evident and annoying in the Buick Lucerne / Cadillac DTS.

    Gene_V - exactly my thoughts - big everywhere except for the driver.

    2xmax - I am 6' 1", 189 Lbs., 36" waist, 34" inseam, and 34" sleeve (and yes, I do need to get back to 175 Lbs.), and the small footwell and knee space for the driver and especially the lack of a telescoping steering wheel kept me from buying one.

    I think that I have narrowed my list for my next vehicle down to a 2008 Montego or a 2007 Sport Trac (more a car with a huge trunk than a rough truck). I just rejected the Lucerne - no interior storage, torque steer, expensive, no folding rear seat, narrow trunk opening, but it does have some features which should be options on the Montego / Five Hundred - cooled seats, rain sensing wipers, a dimming exterior mirror, and a more powerful and very nice sounding engine.

    mschmal - Sorry, but that seems line Ford PR baloney about the wide console and crash tests, as the Freestyle has a narrower console. I have driven my brother's Freestyle, and the narrower console really does make a difference, as I can sit closer to the non-telescoping steering wheel so that I do not have to drive with my arms straight out. My wife really hated the engine noise in the Freestyle, and the extra weight makes it even slower and nosier.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I'm currently on vacation now so I don't have direct information at my fingertips, but in relation to the D3 vehicles (500/FS/MTG), vs. LX vehicles (300, Charger, Magnum), people seem to forget conviniently that 25% of sales of the Chrysler LX vehicles are fleet, which mean very little profit, whereas Ford has kept there's to 13-15%, if you do the math you'll notice almost the same number of retail people, buy the vehicle.

    The rebates on the LX sedans are greater than that of the D3 sedans, and last month DCX led with the highest rebates/incentives in the industry.

    But overall both vehicles sell very well, the "Oh this one sells 100 units more, therefore it makes it successful"...sounds like kids in the locker room measuring their privates. There's some brands that can't even cut 100K units with various models, let along these vehicles are selling over 200K.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Ford Five Hundred Hits Bull's-eye with Boomers:

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/12/000369.html
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I did the math, and it seems like you are a bit of an apologist for at least questionable Ford decision-making. Taking away 25% for fleet sales from the DCX sedans and 15% from the Ford sedans still leaves 142,125 Chrysler non-fleet sales to 114,750 Ford sales for 2005.

    Remember too, that Ford sales should be higher, because the Ford on average sells for less, and traditionally has been the the volume seller compared to Chryslers. In addition, when you look at 2004 sales of 2005 models, it is no contest: 113,000 Chryslers to 17,000 Fords.

    Yes, the 300 was available for a longer period of time that year, but it also illustrates that an awfully lot of people who wanted a 300 have already bought one. Until recently, no incentives were needed for big sales, and now with those incentives, it is still selling well. And making money.

    The conclusion remains that the Fords are selling ok, but the company needs still greater sales to begin turning a North American profit. I think Ford would agree that another 50,000 sales of the big sedans would help.

    The 500 is a good vehicle and meets the needs of a chunk of buyers. Still the Chrysler, though arguably less user friendly and flexible (and more expensive), sells better. You gotta think looks and powertrain choices have a bit to do with it.

    By the way, the first two months of 2006 sales: 46,316 Chrysler/Dodge sedans to 19,118 Ford/Mercury sedans. That hardly seems to be moving in the right direction for Ford.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    "Remember too, that Ford sales should be higher, because the Ford on average sells for less, and traditionally has been the the volume seller compared to Chryslers"

    So because something in inexpensive, it's suppose to sell at a much higher number. So why is the Camry the best selling midsize, when the Sonata is less? We can't follow that reasoning. Also, "Traditionally" was thrown out the window. Ford has continuously stated to the media that the days of 400K units per vehicle, were no longer what they are aiming for, rather, there's more fragmentation in the market. That argument is up there with the "OH Lincoln needs to follow Cadillac upmarket, because they simply are". It's no longer valid.

    Yes the 300 sells for more, and you would in turn perceive that as being higher profit, and it could be, but thats hard to judge because of the manufacturing, design, platform, tooling, etc. Only Chrysler can state what it's profit margins are on those vehicles. But what might be obvious, might not be true. As I know it, the D3 sedans enjoy a good healthy profit, considering the overly engineered donated platform. Not as healthy as the Panther cash cows, but quite good in comparison to most competitors.

    Toyota admitted about 2 years ago, that their Camry wasn't bringing in much profit, IF ANY... Their reasoning is that if the Camry buyer has a good experience, and they gain their loyalty, chances were they would buy a more expensive Toyota next time around..possible a Highlander, Sequoia, Avalon. Something with higher profits.

    The last generation Cavaliar had a -$800-1000 loss on each vehicle. GM did this on purpose because they needed the CAFE credits, and innundated the market with them to offset the CAFE drainage of the bigger vehicles SUV/Trucks which enjoyed a healhy profits.

    50K extra buyers for the D3, at the moment wouldn't be sustainable because the factory allocation is limited. Another plant will be retooled for D3 sedans, but not the sedans we know of now...these will be for D3 Lincolns and another D3 Ford vehicle.

    People continue to expect traditional ideas/moves from Ford when it's convinient for their argument, but systematically slam them for doing so on other issues. There's more to the story, and the rules of the game have changed and so has Ford.

    Ford has constantly addressed what they expect from these vehicles, what their roles are, and where they are going...if you look at the PR work done on these vehicles, it's mainly to dispell the journalists expectations, or how they are perceived because their unwillingness to understand the concept behind them.

    Some want to compare it to the 300 because they are both domestic, full size and available AWD. Yet DCX bills itself as being a bit more premium therefore the higher priced/trims. Some compare it with the Accord/Camry because they deemed the Taurus not competitive. Some compare it to the Avalon because it's FWD offering. Some perceive it as being the CV/GM replacements. Some believe it's the next future Taxi-can/rental fleet. Some expect it to have Mustang performance. Some expect it to sell at Camry-like numbers.

    And the fault the vehicle has had is all these expectations only set by the people who have no other reasoning than just to set a bias against the vehicle for not having something they wish it had. So in the end we can conclude... IS the vehicle different compared to the market people perceive it to be in? Do we attribute the success of the vehicle by pre-conceived notions of traditional expectations, rather than the happiness of buyers?

    I can tell you one thing, the 500/FS is actually enjoying a high satisfaction/loyalty repurchasing rate that compares favorable to the Mustang, F150, Panther cars, internally. And considering some of the forums of other vehicles (such as Accord/Camry which looked like a rant board), it surely shows their many 500 buyers which are happy with their purchase.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    No doubt many 500 owners are satisfied with their vehicle. You miss my point.

    Ford has lost more market share over the past 10 years than than GM or Chrysler. You may make company arguments about why the 500 sells less units, but the fact remains that Ford, along with Chevy and Toyota among others (not Sonata or Chrysler 300 pre-2005) was the volume car seller.

    I have no quarrel with offering more models, rather than relying on selling 500,000 of one model like had been done with Taurus. However good Ford's strategy may be on paper, the sales mumbers have dwindled. And they are not clawing their way back with any sort of consistency. Further, to say that Ford cannot build MORE cars because of factory capacity problems certainly says volumes about their market planning.

    It is scary how defensive and short-sighted Ford people can get even as their market share further shrinks. It angers me that a company with the resources of Ford, the legacy and the history of being able to market good products has stumbled so badly--and continues to do so. I have owned 27 vehicles and the most common nameplate in the group was Ford. I have been a "Ford" guy. I have owned Ford stock a long time.

    Of course companies make marketing decisions that may even include producing something at less than a profit, because within the scheme of things, it advances the overall profitability. Ford's US operations are not profitable. Arguing such things as Explorer production was deliberately cut (resulting in a sales drop bigger than the drop in the segment), or D3 sedans cannot currently be built in higher quantities would make more sense if those strategies were paying off. It's been years of declines and this is the best that can be done?

    I wouldn't question profits per car on the Camry when they are building and selling all they can AND the company is very profitable AND they are poised to eventually take over GM in the dominant position. I would question it if profits or market share begin to dwindle.

    In other words, your long defense of Ford's decisions rings hollow as long as Ford sees such things as a division like Chrysler--whose competition is more normally Mercury or even Lincoln, begin to beat the pants off more mainstream Ford sales.

    An aside to this: I see that the 2008 re-style of the Escape will be the usual new front clip, rear end and interior re-do (a la Ranger, Windstar, Explorer, Expedition, etc). What on earth will it take to convince Ford that you cannot cheap out this way on styling and stay on top in this fast moving scene? The policy of introducing segment leading models and then letting them die on the vine from timid and belated updating, if not changed, will eventually be the death of Ford.

    BTW, I realize this is a good strategy for the 2008 Five Hundred. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to limit 2010-2011 changes to the same formula. It's a shame.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    In the next 2 decades, the car market in the U.S. will be reflective of what is currently occuring in Europe. Everyone will struggle to even keep at 8-10% market share as the market is saturated. As much trash as someoen may dump over the fence onto their neighbors yard, they forget it's all in the same neighborhood.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You have a very good point. It is just sad to see Ford dwindle so much and do it first, while Toyota and others can continue their growth for the time being.

    Another aside: I note that Ford cannot even seem to move hybrids like everyone else. The Escape hybrid needs incentives now in several areas of the country, and the Mariner hybrid, even produced in very low numbers, is languishing. Yikes! It is like a dark cloud covers even their best efforts.
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