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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    I believe stickguy was using a hypothetical reference to a strike, or anything for that matter, that would delay making what is (supposed to be) the most important car that Ford has introduced in quite awhile the new (Flagship)..
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Nope, I've checked, and the plant is happy about receiving and working on these new products.... There's other plants that have a bit of issues concerning the workforce unions and such.

    Chicago Assembly Plant will be one of the models of efficiency come the new 500/Freestyle/Montego/Mercury-Freestyle version, etc. And with the flick of the switch, they can convert to any model depending on which model is selling more.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Not hypothetical at all, and it was me who asked:

    http://tinyurl.com/34g4z

    As to nvbanker and the power issue, be aware that the Taurus weighs many hundreds of pounds less than will the AWD Five Hundred.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes I'm aware of the old memerbership agreements, but they won't pose much of a problem. The story is mainly based on common issues pertaining to new model lines. And eventually everyone will deal with it one way or another.

    Life would be so much easier without all the red-tape of unions. When someone doesn't do a good job, you fire them, it's NOT that hard....Instead of getting the cheerleader's involved to save your hind, and make-up for the workload you can't do....

    There's a few other plants that have gone flexible, and they too had similar issues with contracts and such, but whenever a new product is involved, more-over the people will come to a compromise of some sort.

    Although I share NVbankers frustration, where I wish they would just send manufacturing to another country, to see the reaction....
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    It often seems as though UAW members are determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

    I had heard, however, that Ford has a history of good relations with the union at the Chicago plant, which was part of the reason it was chosen to produce these key models. Which makes the talk of a strike just before the start of production all the more puzzling.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    that article sounded like some guy with an over developed sense of importance trying to get quoted in the newspapers before his election bid to union president

    Mark
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Hey now, Oil just hit $40.00 an hour? that Escape Hybrid sounds real good right now...

    Dodge can keep its Hemis'

    Mark
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    as usual, Chryslers timing is perfect. I have seen several of them though around Napa, but they might be rentals.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,236
    It's a beaut! A different kind of beaut than the 500, but still really nice...

    I agree that the GTO is a lame duck. Who wants a warmed-over Catera that looks like a Catera?

    Is the Australian Ford Territory their version of the Freestyle, or something else?
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    The Ford of Australia Territory is unique to Oz. It's based on a RWD Falcon platform, and has the Australian 4.0 litre DOHC in-line 6. The Freestyle is based on a FWD Volvo XC90-S80/Ford Five Hundred platform. They both fit a similar market niche but mid and large sized FWD cars never caught on in dry and snowfree Australia so they stuck with RWD and are still building sedan based pickups which they call 'utes', think El Camino or Ranchero.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Check out some of the offerings in the Ford Australia website. If your into RWD and performance (even in a sedan), Australia has it. And what's better, their cars do not need to be built with "crumple zones", which means...if you hit a kangaroo, you will still be safe and have road kill for dinner.

    http://www.ford.com.au/movie_normal.asp
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Or, if you hit a kangaroo, the car survives intact and the undertaker has a new customer.

    Crumple zones work.

    I would NEVER own a car without them.

    My mother is alive today after hitting a guard rail head on at 50 MPH. She walked away.

    I will never, ever belittle the safety features cars come with.

    Ford was once the safety leader. Volvo still is a leader in the field.

    One reason I am so interested in the Five Hundred IS Volvo's involvement. BUt, I must confess, if Ford is building cars in Australia without such safety features (apparently because it can), then I may very well reconsider if I want to do business with a company that would do such a thing when lives are at stake (a company also responsible for the Ford Pinto fiasco and involved in the Explorer/Firestone tire specification issue---GM did not specify such tires from Firestone and its similar vehicles did not have the same issues with blowouts).

    Now, ANT14, you have me wondering...

    IF Ford knowingly and willingly makes cars in Australia with no crumple zones, then I will NOT be doing business with Ford.

    I will be investigating this. As you can see, this troubles me greatly,
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I am in a motel this AM with VERY slow dial-up. But, every Australian Ford I checked has what they call "intelligent safety system" down there. Which includes a safety cell and, presumably, crumple zones.

    I didn't think Ford would knowingly build cars without life saving features in this day and age.

    I can now go back to lusting after the Five Hundred, which I wish was being offered with a larger engine, initially! :)
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes they have THEIR version of crumple zones, but they are NOT as marshmellowy as ours. Their frontal structural member's which support bumper's (as an example), do not dicipate force loads to other structural components as much as they would here in the U.S. And this is needed specially in the Outback, where you might have an animal jump in your way.

    Here it's rare to have those types of accidents, therefore crumple zones absorb higher load forces, than overthere. Then we have Europe, which wants to pass laws that require automaker's to build "pedestrian friendly bumpers/hoods". This will affect the styling of numerous vehicles, but again, it's typical for them to have pedestrians accidents. Ft.Lauderdale #1 and Miami #2, lead in pedestrian to car accidents here in the U.S.

    "Ford was once the safety leader. Volvo still is a leader in the field."

    Volvo has 2 platforms, both which earn great scores in the government (both agencies) crash tests. And this is the same on numerous other countries. Ford has substaintially many more platforms worldwide, and sell at a much higher volume. Not ALL vehicles/platform earn top scores, but majority does. If your willing to count the sales volume on specific models which earn top safety scores worldwide (per unit sale), you can safely say Ford is by far ahead of any automaker worldwide.... All depends on the method you view the statistics.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Will the Five Hundred have the safety canopy?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    From the press kit, an option as listed:

    Side Impact Air Bags and Roll Over Air Safety Canopy (package)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Then we have Europe, which wants to pass laws that require automaker's to build "pedestrian friendly bumpers/hoods". This will affect the styling of numerous vehicles...

    One interesting note is that this may not affect styling as much as expected - engineers are experimenting with the use of pyrotechnics and airbags in the hood area to gently catch the pedestrian as they roll over the hood.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Having watched the introduction of the 2005 Outback/Legacy from the viewpoint of the Edmunds boards, I have a question.

    Anyone know what day the embargo on test drive/more detailed info is up for the Five Hundred/Montego?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    It'll be up in the next few weeks, and you'll have simple article stating initial drive's and first impressions. Then expect the regular car rags to report on it towards the beginning of July (but mags usually come out a month before) So probably on August issues, of ________ magazines...
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Here's an interesting read about CVT's and a few other transmission and engine news from Ford.

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18348&ma- ke_id=trust
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Will the Montego be available at dealers at the same time that the Five Hundred is?
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    The Five Hundred gets about a months jump in build time over the Montego, based on that I think it is probable the Ford will be at dealers before the Mercury..
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Member Posts: 122
    I really hope that after all the publicity and promises, that we don't come up short as far as what these cars will be. I can't wait to actually see the new cars from Ford. Thanks to a few of you who posted some great info, and also had some good sites to check out, I now have a better idea of what the CVT is all about. Every day I check a bunch of different car sites hoping to finally see a road test of the 500/Montego. I intend to get as much time behind the wheel as possible before making up my mind. There are PLENTY of Ford/Mercury dealers here on Long Island, and I intend to visit most of them. The last time I was this excited about getting a new car was when I picked up my '94 SHO.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Well, I figure we will see lots and lots of stuff on these cars once the embargo is over. Usually, by now, someone knows and tells when that is going to be...

    Put another way, I've never before seen an embargo on the embargo date! :)
  • setzersetzer Member Posts: 127
    I think Mercury should release a sport wagon/SUV based on the Montego platform, similar to the Ford Freestyle but more luxurious and innovative. Make it comfortable and worth buying. Give it some nice Mercury styling and a nice price and it should sell. Name it the Mercury Monarch. I think that sounds good.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    They should bring it back on something.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I like that name too, but I tested it out on a few people... Wrote it out for them to read... SOME pronounced it "Mon-ARCH" Like...an ARC ! (I nicely rolled my eyes).

    Then again I live in Miami, so you know....it's a different market down here...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm warming up to the numbers......
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    What numbers?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Five Hundred, etc.......
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Oh. I thought it was about the engine! :)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I wish, you wish, and I'm sure Bill Ford wishes the most!
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Five Hundred works for me, but I hope Ford doesn't use Four Hundred for the car-formerly-known-as-the-Futura.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Um, why? I like both Five Hundred and Four Hundred. It seems peculiar to like one but not the other.

    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Then we would expect the Focus to be named 300, and obviously that won't be the case. And possible 200 if there were possibly a Fiesta-platformed vehicle under the Focus, etc.etc.

    Or, if we just have 400 and 500, it's like "Hmmm, ok, why those 2, and not more?"
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And Mazda left the hundreds just last year!

    No 626, 323, 929.

    See! It could be worse. May I point out that the Ford 5 and the Ford 4---both model names start with F!!!!

    As for Mercurys and the M, I have decided the Mercury version of the car formerly known as Futura should be called the Mercury Moo!

    (Kidding, I think!)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm fine with the Five Hundred, and any other hundreds, but I don't get the alliteration thing. Sometimes I wonder about focus groups and marketing types.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Vehicles are a bit more memorable when they have names, rather than numbers. Even watching TV, look at the references some actors will use (as written by the producers and writters)... "He has a Mustang", "Oh look, a Pink Corvette", "I'm going to pack up the Explorer".

    Now, when using numbers or series for example. You will here such actors just refer to the whole car like "I'm buying myself a Benz"... "She just bought a new Beamer". I have YET to hear someone say "I'm getting an E320" or "I have a 7-series".... Your left wondering, "What the hell are they talking about".

    And I'm just using TV as example, but you can hear similar statements on music lyrics, or discussing it with friends and family.

    Mention the names Mustang, Continental, Taurus, Explorer, Navigator, and even the most anti-car person will know what it is.

    So just another item to consider....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Oh, I agree, ANT. I'm deeply attached to Galaxies, Cutlasses, Mustangs, Continentals, and the like. I think the Five Hundred works, because of all the Galaxie 500's my Dad drove in the olden days.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    The size will be very good. More like the 50's size automobile, but Ford still thinks people want a vehicle that used gas like a 50's car.

    Come on Ford. Put in a diesel that will average about 30 MPG. They are doing it all over Europe. The oil companys have already started removing sulfur from our fuels. All the guys that have been driving diesel trucks will get one and pass the word around. All you have to do is offer a diesel option.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Come on guys! No comment on my Mercury Moo name? I thought it was simply bovine.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    No moos is good moos, John!
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Five Hundred recalls the Galaxie 500s and Fairlane 500s of the 1950s and 1960s. Four Hundred doesn't have any connection to Ford's history.

    I also agree with ANT14 that regular names are much more memorable than combinations of letters and numbers. Acura, for example, made a big mistake when it dumped Integra, Vigor and Legend for RSX, TL and RL, respectively.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Why am I reminded of that silly combination of letters and numbers that Merkur sold, or rather, didn't sell many of?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I intimately knew what a Legend, Integra & Vigor were. To this day, I have no idea what a Rl, TL & RSX are. None.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Not only that, but I knew what those cars were and cared a little. I have no idea what any of those latter Acuras are, nor do I care.

    Pity the poor guy/gal who has a Mazda6 with a 4 cylinder engine. Endless explanations, no doubt...
  • jimb1jimb1 Member Posts: 3
    We can debate all we want about the name of the Five Hundred but I think the name is only part of the issue.

    First thing, why do we keep looking in the rear view mirror for names and memories, etc? How about accepting the fact that new things should come along and Ford / GM / Chrysler should stop resting on their laurels and look to the future. Resting on their laurels has done nothing for them except allow the German/Japanese automakers to eat their lunch. Retro retro retro. . . who cares? I don’t. . . The revolutionary Taurus was a radical new concept and what did it do, it sold well . . .

    I agree with ANT14 that regular names are more memorable but does it matter? Do you think the family guy that gets into an Infiniti I35 cares that it does not have a ‘nice’ name or that it is related to a 70s Datsun? No, he cares about what it is NOW, TODAY.

    I am a Ford fan but I can not get over why they never overtake the competition, they just barely match it. Where is the navigation option in the Five Hundred? How about a manual transmission? Or at least a manual/automatic or how about something new that nobody has? Also, only 200HP!?!? And we have to wait for an upgrade to 245HP 3.5 Duratec??? The Acura TL has 270HP TODAY! The Nissan Maxima has 265HP TODAY!

    I would like to buy a Ford and I like the new Ford Five Hundred and the Futura/Four Hundred/whatever it will be called but I am tired of thinking I am barking up the wrong tree. The Honda, Toyota, Nissan alternatives really are tempting. . .

    If Ford has any chance in the future to beat the "name inferior letter cars as they are called here" of the German/Japanese, then they need start building something that can compete.

    Please excuse my rambling . . .
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Jimb1, I contend that Ford OFTEN overtakes the competition. The problem is they don't stay focused consistently, to stay out front. Examples would be:

    Thunderbird - Blew past the Corvette, and stayed there - until they started making them just a Ford coupe.

    Mustang - Need I say more? On this one, they invented the genre, and held the distinction, and put the competition out of business, and frankly, they did that even while making some unmitigated trash some years, ie; the Mustang II.

    F-150, F-250, F-350 - The unquestioned gold standard in light trucks. Everybody copies the F-150.

    Explorer - Debuted in 91, took over the market invented by the Jeep Cherokee, and has never let it go, despite incredible competition. Still the best, IMO.

    Expedition - GM owned this segment forever, and when Ford finally got in the game, they make the GM products instant old news.

    Navigator - Nobody laughed at Ford more than the competition when the ludicrous idea of a Lincoln truck was broached. Funny how the laughing stopped after the first quarter in 98, when the Navigator was selling out with 75% residuals after 4 years on the leases. Then it was the scramble for GM to gussie up a Tahoe and call it a Cadillac, for Lexus to dress up a LandCruiser, and now for Nissan to bring out the QX56, etc. And now, Navigator as the most beautiful interior in the class, hands down, while the rest of them are still the low end truck, with more wood on the steering wheel. In this area, they have been consistent.

    These are a few examples of where I see Ford did either invent the class of car, or overtook the competition. Here are some sad stories though.

    Taurus - Absolutely caught everybody else napping in 86. Totally revolutionized the passenger car the world over. Sadly, instead of continually improving the car, it fell to the beancounters to decontent or "thrift" the car into the sad,
    rear drum brake, poor seating, lousy leather, cheap plastics rental car it is today. Somebody should be lynched for ruining possibly the finest brand in the class. When the Taurus debuted in 86, you couldn't GIVE away a Chevy Celebrity, and the Celebrity was a decent offering. Today, the Taurus of 04 and the 86 Celebrity are about equal, IMO. What a shame.

    Consistency would be a beautiful thing. It's what makes Toyota and Honda what they are today.
  • jimb1jimb1 Member Posts: 3
    Nvbanker, nice comment and I agree with it. Ford would do better if they would make consistency part of their core values.

    One thing to comment that you pointed out, Ford does great with trucks, why? Because they have the greatest profit margins.

    IMO, some beancounter(s) at Ford got too much power in the late 80s and negatively affected their product lines. If it were not for the devoted fans, the Mustang would have went the way of the dodo bird in '94.

    It is somewhat refreshing to finally see Ford paying attention to the American car market for the first time in a decade or so . . .

    Comparing Taurus of 04 and the 86 Celebrity? Even though that may be a proper comparison, that hurts . . . I didn't think the Taurus was that bad . .
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You know, it ISN'T that bad - it's a decent car, and I may have been a bit invested in hyperbole comparing it to an 84 Celebrity. But I just get furious every time I rent one these days, and remember how great my 87 Taurus was, compared.

    I fell in love with the Taurus when friends came to stay from Bakersfield in 87, and brought their 86 Taurus LX. They let me drive it while they flew on to someplace else. I had it for a weekend, and couldn't WAIT to get one of my own. The seats were the finest, and most supportive of any I had ever seen. The room was fabulous, the ergonomics were perfect, the style was revolutionary, the power was awesome for the day, the ride was firm and the car was solid as a vault. Handling was extraordinary! Compared to ANYTHING on the market at the time, it was just the best. Put my old 84 Thunderbird to shame!! And I thought the Bird was awesome at the time. It had 4 wheel disk brakes, too. Nothing was skimped on that one could discern.

    I liked the Taurus so much, I bought one for myself, and 6 more for my fleet at work!

    Two weeks ago, I rented one in Napa, California for a 4 day business trip. It ran great, very peppy with the Duratec engine, but the seats were ordinary, the leather was like plastic, it sat too low, it had rear drum brakes (a major sin in my book for this day and age). The interior looked cheap and plasticy, the door panels were not ergonomic anymore and my left knee hits the armrest. It's competent, but chintzy. That's how I felt about the Celebrity in 84. Except I like how the seats felt more in the Celebrity.

    Sorry if I exaggerated. I'm sincerely hoping the 500 is a new Taurus, like in 86, and this time, I hope they improve the car instead of trying to thrift another $5 out of each copy each year. Pretty soon, you got nothing left.
This discussion has been closed.