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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
The Taurus' tooling, development, EVERYTHING has been paid for, for quite awhile. Same with the CV, GM, TC. What minimal enhancements are done, I consider "buying time" till the product is eventually replaced (by the midsize vehicle formanlly named Futura).
It's a shame that a vehicle like the Taurus which revolutionized styling for passenger vehicles, will eventually fade away. And again, all this because they didn't concentrate much on the vehicle as it aged.
What ages a vehicle, is an overburdened platform that has maximized it's full potential. And that time has come. We now need to welcome a new wave of vehicle architectures that will take advantage of it's full potential.
Focus is a perfect example, specially in packaging, and how it's trim porportions defy it's spacious interior. And the same will occur with the new wave of passenger car architecture. Trim exteriors, but much larger interiors.
Ford is now doing, what it should have done 8 years ago. Asian automaker's continue to tweak their mainstream passenger vehicles, while not changing much of the components. While Ford (and others) would change TOO many components, from a prior generation to another. And Ford has acknowledged this publically, and have/will rectify it.
Notice the '03 LS, Jag S-type, TC, CV, GM '05 X-type, Escape.... Listen to what consumer's complain about... Tweak, Improve, modify, change, what might need it.
The Ford 500 size is right
Ford has a great nation wide set of dealers.
I hope they learn . . .
Just one slip of a word, and it can really turn a story around.
CONSISTENCY; What the Asians have that we lack.
I have a 2000 Impala LS with 157,000 miles. Chevy designed this vehicle to last 400,000 miles. And, indeed, the car has needed only a headlight switch and an airbag sensor in the unscheduled maintenance department.
Has FORD made long term reliablity a goal for the Five Hundred? Or is it more focused on original costs and interested in dealer service and part sales?
Well?
May I remind you this vehicle was designed to compete with the police versions of the GM/CV from Ford? Which reminds me, any chance of the Five Hundred/Montego ever being marketed to law enforcement/fleets? I know that supposedly they will be offered only to retail customers for the first six months.....
The 3.8 V-6 engine is a durable unit, but, from what I've read, the 3.4 V-6s have problems with the head gaskets and intake manifolds that show up well before 100,000 miles. And early-production Impalas had trouble-prone steering shafts.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, and I don't doubt that johnclineii has had a great experience with his Impala, but I haven't heard of them being THAT durable across the board.
As for Ford - nvbanker and ANT14 hit it on the head with Ford's lack of consistency. Ford, unfortunately, has the habit of introducing a trend-setting model...and letting it get stale. Honda and Toyota quickly catch up (the Japanese are great imitators) and then surpass the original!
Another area where Ford lacks consistency is durability. Even during the 1990s, for example, some Ford products were tough and wore like iron, while others would develop major problems around 50,000 miles.
And, as much as everyone likes to blame everything on Jacques Nasser, many of these problems were present before he assumed leadership. The awful 3.8 V-6 engines and notoriously fragile Taurus and Windstar transmissions from the early and mid-1990s were designed before he was in charge.
A friend of mine had an early 1990s Mercury Cougar that had the 3.8 V-6. He had the head gasket replaced at about 50,000 miles. He unloaded the Mercury for a VW Passat.
I know - that's like jumping from the frying pan to...another frying pan. The main point, however, is that he didn't buy another Ford product. And that Cougar's engine cannot be pinned on Jacques Nasser. Lots of people got burned by Cougars and Thunderbirds with the 3.8 V-6 (not to mention the 1992-95 Taurus/Sable and early Windstars).
http://www.satisfied-mind.com/cars/Chevrolet-Impala.htm
That's the only place on the web I have seen, but the comment was made frequently back when the Impala was launched. They were talking about the police version, which the LS is very similar to, NOT the 3.4 base.
John- I don't mean to insult you, but this is a pretty dramatic claim you are making, 157,000 miles on an Impala, and never a problem? Is that what you are saying? Because I frankly don't believe you. NO ISSUES at all have had to be repaired??? Careful, or Terry is going to tell you that's a ludicrious claim!!
But this is not the norm, I am told.
a. headlight switch...about $300 total, and it would have to go bad in Orlando, Florida!
b. airbag sensor...less than $100
NOTHING else that isn't considered normal wear and tear. The car has the original: battery, water pump, transmission, fuel pump, engine, hoses (!), seats, radio, etc.
The tires have been replaced thrice, it has had new struts (about 110,000 miles), and I of course have religiously changed oil and filters. The car has also had the transmission serviced at the appropriate intervals...
Ford's Vulcan 3.0L is virtually bulletproof engine, although it's a bit antiquated in it's design. That engine will be phased out in the next few years, FYI.
Production of a few 500/Freestyle has already begun, and the factory itself in quite a model of flexible production capability. This has tremendously helped moral for worker's, and they are quite proud of the quality of this product. It's extremely important (as passenger cars goes) this vehicle is released without any issues.
And the vehicle itself will stun many people who believe Detroit is Dead. The quality, attention to detail, structural integrity are far advanced and beyond of numerous other products costing $10K more, and will definately stun people. If anything, maybe the vehicle has been "overly-engineered", so hopefully it'll be well received.
It must be a very few models that you're referring to.
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=18396
About reliability, that all depends on how it's used. I do not wish to compare it to the Crown Vic, since THAT is another platform which is Body On Frame with Watt Linkage Axle, built to jump on curbs if need be.
But overall, the tolerances of the vehicle are quite high (specially the structure), so expect high reliability overall. And service life should be equally inexpensive overall.
Giggle.
Just kidding!
German and Japanese brands make you feel like even if you buy the less expensive car, you are still getting a good quality car.
BUT, you are right - and I have said for years, I do NOT understand how one company can build the 88 Ranger (still running, by the way) and the 88 Taurus - (if it's still running somewhere, heaven help the owner!!). Just makes no sense.
I'm hoping that Bill can make a difference here. There are some Fords I won't buy, but generally, Fords have been good to me and I usually like the designs and interior feel a lot.
The current Explorer/Mountaineer has been a real delight. Just brought my wife's Mountaineer back from the store. That is just about the easiest vehicle to drive I have ever had. I can't say enough about how much fun it is to drive around town. Best design in the class, IMO.
In other times (back when), manufacturer's would build their own parts for their own vehicles. Then agian, in those times, you would have cars with 400 defects, per 100. Compared to numerous parts supplier's offering different components to numerous manufacturer's, yet reliability has improved to an average 132 defects per 100 units.
Then again there's some companies (I will mention my beloved VW) who build great illusions. GREAT beautifully crafted interiors, with excellent materials. Yet the reliability of a Kia ! Which is why VW rates highest in perceived quality, yet one of the lowest in actual dependability/reliability.
So there's a fine line where Ford products are improving across the line, yet not much of that is ever mentioned. Ford leads in a few categories for reliability. There's some components in Ford vehicles, that are rated (most reliable in the industry), yet we never hear from that. Example: Visteon who supplier's seats for Ford, has the lowest defects in that segment-yet we never hear of that.
Instead we hear about the gremlin's of the 80's and 90's, the infamous 3.8L gasket issue, the bad trannies of the Taurus', Windstars, etc. And it'll take another good 5-10 year's before that is shaken off. Some consumer's are more willing to forgive their Accord when the tranny fails, or A/C fails (common), but you won't hear the end of it if the radio knob on their Explorer falls off.
~alpha
I think the failure rate on the 1995 Windstar head gaskets approaches 100%! Our '95 has always been well-maintained and not driven hard, and it blew a gasket at 42K. Other than that, it's been a pretty good van though. My dad's 1998 Olds Intrigue has had a lot more issues than the Windstar.
-Andrew L
They both blew away the Saturn Ion I drove the same day...I couldn't believe how bad that one was. I kept thinking, "GM killed Oldsmobile for THIS?!"
With the Focus, Ford proved that it can build a car with great handling and performance, not to mention an astonishing amount of interior room in relation to exterior size. The problem was that it took the company about three years to figure out how to build it properly.
Let's hope we don't get a repeat performance with the Five Hundred and Montego. At least Ford realizes how much is on the line with these new cars.
Hmmmm.
Notice how GM's sales are picking up, specially Impala, Malibu and Cavaliar.... Surely, GM Is happy and you should see their latest press release concerning that of how happy they are about those models sales being up.... Reality is, they are selling MUCH more to rental car fleets, hence, lower depreciation overall.
Which is why Ford is purposely selling less to fleets, to bolster profittability as well as maintain a decent depreciation rate.
Ironically I'm taking a business road trip tomorrow and I was asked if I wanted a Taurus from Hertz. Told them "No thanks, try again" so they gave me everything else from Volvo S60, to a Navi to choose from, but considering they all require premium, I opted for a Mazda6. Although that sucker will only give me 15MPG on the highway, BUT my point is... I won't even take the Taurus even if it's free !
In fairness, the Taurus has it's merits (quite many) but it hasd fallen behind in some aspects that are important for MY needs.
I'm suspicious of GM's sales results for some of their models. The tired old Grand Am, for example, has been recording hefty sales increases all year. I find it hard to believe that retail customers are flocking to Pontiac dealers with the sudden urge to buy the current Grand Am. The Impala has also been recording healthy sales increases all year, and it has been out for several years now.
Ironically, Impala, Grand Am, Cadavelier, all which haven't had a decent redesign in quite awhile, all have improved sales from year ago figures. And it's NOT rebates or incentives that are boosting sales either. Hence, fleet sales.....
JUST at the time that Ford is cutting fleet sales, GM is going up. Clear indication. More Toyota's are popping up on rental car lots as well, I believe they are at a 8-10% to fleet sales, last source I read.
Wish the Zephyr was built on the S-80, instead of the 6 platform. But then again, what do I know? I just need to drive the cars and see how they feel.
ANT14- You mentioned that Malibu sales are up because of rentals- not so. Malibu sales are down slightly on the year, because it is only the Classic that is going en masse to fleets.
~alpha
The new model will not hit anywhere near that target. On the other hand, those sales should be to retail customers, which is an improvement over the old one.
As for Toyota - it has always used more "hard sell" tactics, especially compared to Honda. The dealers around here easily match the Chevy and Ford dealers for screamer ads promoting "special deals on new Toyotas." I'm not surprised that Toyota is more willing to sell to fleets than Honda.
Hmmm, could it be Ford is using Toyota's to drive down their depreciation ?
And yes they wanted to stick me into everything from Alero's, to Century's EEK ! After the bitching, whining and yelling was done, I got out with a Jag S-type.